Im pretty sick of failing Dragons End meta

[NotTooFoolish.7412]

26 minutes ago, Crono.4197 said:

I did the meta when the expansion came out, failed like 15 times and only 1 success. Really big time waster and Arena Net doesn't seem to wanna change anything, so I've just been avoiding that map ever since. I'd rather do other metas which won't waste my time and where people don't ask for ridiculous requirements in order to join.

Have you done it after the patches? You are describing a period when doing the event without a more than average groups wasn't a good idea.

I'm still really curious how ppl interact with that event. Although, I assume ppl will eat me alive if I try to give them some pointers in Open World...

[Chichimec.9364]

15 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

...If you are looking at 80% personal failure rate at this point in time, it's your personal inability to join a proper map or make use of the LFG...Instead if complaining, improve your own approach to making use of the LFG.

Why bother? If you enjoy it, I'm glad for you but me, I'm with Crono here...

31 minutes ago, Crono.4197 said:

I did the meta when the expansion came out, failed like 15 times and only 1 success. Really big time waster and Arena Net doesn't seem to wanna change anything, so I've just been avoiding that map ever since. I'd rather do other metas which won't waste my time and where people don't ask for ridiculous requirements in order to join.

There's nothing the DE meta gives that I want so I simply don't bother with it any more. There are a few things about EoD I like but for the most part I just ignore Cantha.

[yann.1946]

3 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Of course, the groups that do not take that preparation time are far more likely to fail (no, not due to lack of buffs, but because those later groups are on average far less prepared overall).

This is true. Although I would say that not having the buff will decrease the succes rate somewhat. 

 

It's also why I said "yes and no" on the question of the duration. It technically can take less time, realistically it won't at the moment though.

[venator.8326]

2 hours ago, Chichimec.9364 said:

Why bother? If you enjoy it, I'm glad for you but me, I'm with Crono here...

There's nothing the DE meta gives that I want so I simply don't bother with it any more. There are a few things about EoD I like but for the most part I just ignore Cantha.

It is actually sad that Cantha has nothing for players that really want to invest time to get some good rewards. As 'Mighty Teapot' mentioned a lot of times  'the time investment is not worth it because the rewards simply suck'. So why even bother after people done the story and got the new elite spec? So what are the Dev's doing now to get players back into the new expansion I ask myself...I mean it is pathetic to be honest, we just got a new expansion after what 4-5years? And we get skeleton content + rewards....

[Khisanth.2948]

3 hours ago, NotTooFoolish.7412 said:

What is the pug experience with this meta? What have ppl noticed as a reason behind fail (RNG doesn't count)?
- Is it squad randomly splitting whenever comm calls tail/no tail?
- Is it ppl not moving with Soo-Won when she's sliding to the other side?
- Do ppl randomly kill one of the split bosses so they respawn couple of times?

Did the group waste too much time before even reaching Soo-Won?

I had one run which had no chance of success because we had 3 minutes left to fight her 😛

That was very obvious but something like having 9m vs 12m would be less obvious.

2 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Are waystations present for cc? 

Those should be disabled in DE and breakbars adjusted. Players that only own EoD can't even use those.

[Fueki.4753]

At this point, I'm fairly certain that Arenanet simply doesn't want Dragon's End to be cleared more often.

I can only advice everyone to stay away from it and go play Drizzlewood Coast instead, if they want to play a long long meta event. Both are equally tiring and infested with particle effects, but at least Drizzlewood Coast has a significantly higher success rate and more loot.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Blude.6812]

23 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

At this point, I'm fairly certain that Arenanet simply doesn't want Dragon's End to be cleared more often.

I can only advice everyone to stay away from it and go play Drizzlewood Coast instead, if they want to play a long long meta event. Both are equally tiring and infested with particle effects, but at least Drizzlewood Coast has a significantly higher success rate and more loot.

With the meta as well the forced strikes if you want the best modules, I have come to regret my this EXP purchase. Playing all the other maps WHEN I do play nowadays. I am sure that I am not the only long term player that feels disappointed with the direction that Anet is taking the game. It's too bad because I did like the the looks of the EOD maps.

[Fueki.4753]

1 hour ago, Blude.6812 said:

With the meta as well the forced strikes if you want the best modules, I have come to regret my this EXP purchase. Playing all the other maps WHEN I do play nowadays. I am sure that I am not the only long term player that feels disappointed with the direction that Anet is taking the game. It's too bad because I did like the the looks of the EOD maps.

I don't even bother with the modules, because I have zero interest in that radiating scrap bot.

On the four characters I played EoD with so far, I simply equipped the module I got from the story.

And I only bought two rank 10 cores, since Viper Willbender needed the HP. The second rank 10 core was a miss-click on the Trading Post I didn't notice, when I bought my Guardian's core.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

Those should be disabled in DE and breakbars adjusted. Players that only own EoD can't even use those.

Well, all the inter-phase mechanics that add a special key (and remove all your remaining stacks of EMP) seem to be going in that direction. WIthout adjusting breakbars, that is.

[Erise.5614]

23 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Well, all the inter-phase mechanics that add a special key (and remove all your remaining stacks of EMP) seem to be going in that direction. WIthout adjusting breakbars, that is.

It's really not.

Commanders and PUGs have relied a lot on EMPs. Allowing its usage but making it more annoying and less reliable is the worst of all aspects. Maps will still focus primarily on it as it's the easiest and quickest to explain and communicate but now it's more annoying so its usage will be less reliable. The worst of both worlds.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 hour ago, Blude.6812 said:

With the meta as well the forced strikes if you want the best modules, I have come to regret my this EXP purchase. Playing all the other maps WHEN I do play nowadays. I am sure that I am not the only long term player that feels disappointed with the direction that Anet is taking the game. It's too bad because I did like the the looks of the EOD maps.

It's kinda expected you'd have to do EoD content to get EoD items.
Also, what direction is Anet taking the game? 

[Cuks.8241]

2 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

At this point, I'm fairly certain that Arenanet simply doesn't want Dragon's End to be cleared more often.

I can only advice everyone to stay away from it and go play Drizzlewood Coast instead, if they want to play a long long meta event. Both are equally tiring and infested with particle effects, but at least Drizzlewood Coast has a significantly higher success rate and more loot.

Well I find drizzle the ultimate 1111 boredom. Cant get myself to do it. 

DE is quite fun. At least the soo won fight. The prep is what bothers me. Waste of time. Escorts are ok I guess. Like I suggested before, give full stacks during escorts and just remove map readyness. This would turn it into 40-45 min event. 

[Custodio.6134]

the only advice i can throw into here (since nerfing DE meta for the 100th time makes no sense) is:

get a pre-organized group  with a leader that knows what to do. at least in basics. 

I have seen groups being able to clear it (even though it was close) with a leader that organized a squad for the first time, only with expierience from joining others. 

Why do i recommend an organized group? because since release, i only had a single fail in a DE meta with a pre-organized squad. And this failed attempt was the first attempt they ever did, and after figuring out what went wrong, we cleared it the next try that day (and so every single day after up to this point). Side note: the second try (or first successful clear) has been 1 day after release, BEFORE any nerfs of the DE meta.

And tbh: the requirements to the squad are not really that high (anymore). Setting it up is easy af: 
give 1 quickness and one alac to every subgroup
fill the rest with dps
get your contributor-stacks to 5 before harvest-temple outbreak
do an average of ~6k DPS (which many classes already achieve with a 1-button-"rotation")
follow the goddamn mechanics

this is completely enough to clear the meta. You don´t even need any voice-chat to lead, just very basic squad-organization and decent dps...

[Friday.7864]

For me it's mentally draining when I play for 2 hours and accomplish nothing. 
It makes me regret playing in the first place.

Open world is supposed to be inclusive and fun for everyone.
I really have no kind words for Anet when it comes to Dragon's End... 

 

[Flasterko.4087]

3 minutes ago, Friday.7864 said:

For me it's mentally draining when I play for 2 hours and accomplish nothing. 
It makes me regret playing in the first place.

Open world is supposed to be inclusive and fun for everyone.
I really have no kind words for Anet when it comes to Dragon's End... 

 

For me too, I don't want to play a game in which I spend 2 hours and accomplish nothing. I already left other game for that. Main reason why I play GW2 are world events. 

[Raizel.8175]

1 hour ago, Friday.7864 said:

For me it's mentally draining when I play for 2 hours and accomplish nothing. 
It makes me regret playing in the first place.

Open world is supposed to be inclusive and fun for everyone.
I really have no kind words for Anet when it comes to Dragon's End... 

 

It would easily be inclusive if people would play the game as an actual game, having basic knowledge of fundamental game mechanics and applying said knowledge while playing, instead of some kind of interactive movie. The problem isn't DE being too hard - it really isn't -, the problem is the vast majority of open world content being too easy. The problem is that most of GW2s open world content can easily be consumed as "second monitor content".

1 hour ago, Flasterko.4087 said:

For me too, I don't want to play a game in which I spend 2 hours and accomplish nothing. I already left other game for that. Main reason why I play GW2 are world events. 

It's not a "game problem", it's a "player problem". That doesn't mean that it's your fault. It does mean though that there are several people who join DE with the clear intention of riding a bus instead of carrying their own weight.

[Sobx.1758]

12 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

The dedicated commanders/grups (filled with mostly the same players day after day) mostly succeed. Random ad-hoc groups with your usual OW crowd almost always fail. Although by now most players from the second group usually just give up on the map after 2-3 failures and stop coming back.

Interested where you get that information, other than just clearly trying to build a narrative you want to. Since when I join that meta through lfg, I don't do it "with mostly the same players" and same dedicated commanders each day, but instead just go about it as a usual OW crowd do, which is... just opening lfg and joining a squad before the meta?

Edited May 30, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Erise.5614]

8 minutes ago, Raizel.8175 said:

It would easily be inclusive if people would play the game as an actual game, having basic knowledge of fundamental game mechanics and applying said knowledge while playing, instead of some kind of interactive movie. The problem isn't DE being too hard - it really isn't -, the problem is the vast majority of open world content being too easy. The problem is that most of GW2s open world content can easily be consumed as "second monitor content".

It's not a "game problem", it's a "player problem". That doesn't mean that it's your fault. It does mean though that there are several people who join DE with the clear intention of riding a bus instead of carrying their own weight.

The real question is why that is the case?

I do want to point out that a basic assumption behind your theory here is that everyone wants to become a min/max player and the only reason they aren't performing well is laziness. 

This does not at all match up with my experience. The people "leeching" are often people with several legendaries and deal a significant amount of DPS during burn phases. They just don't do mechanics.

While most people who perform poorly are active the entire time. It appears they just have poor builds, poor traits, wrong skills or all of that combined. 

 

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

17 minutes ago, Raizel.8175 said:

the problem is the vast majority of open world content being too easy. The problem is that most of GW2s open world content can easily be consumed as "second monitor content".

People really need to stop with this mindset... Open World is NOT meant to be hardcore content, it never was

Open World is literally casual content, that's why it's OPEN WORLD, it ain't supposed to be Raids/Strikes/Fractals... 

Edited May 30, 2022 by ChronoPinoyX.7923

[Sobx.1758]

18 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

I do want to point out that a basic assumption behind your theory here is that everyone wants to become a min/max player and the only reason they aren't performing well is laziness. 

I don't see where he made any theory about "everyone wanting to become a min/max player". This seems like another, almost randomized claim that has nothing to do with what you've quoted in order to pretend the post you're quoting is offending someone. But it doesn't.

18 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

This does not at all match up with my experience. The people "leeching" are often people with several legendaries and deal a significant amount of DPS during burn phases. They just don't do mechanics.

Again... what are you even talking about? Players "leeching deal a significant amount of dps during burn phases"? At that point, they're not exactly "leeching", IF only by their significant contribution in dps. 😐 But the fact it's "just dps burn and no mechanics done" seems to also be baseless and simply drawing a narrative you want to draw with nothing factual behind it.

18 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

While most people who perform poorly are active the entire time. It appears they just have poor builds, poor traits, wrong skills or all of that combined. 

Some players can simply want to try and skip any learning process and simply jump into the latest content to get latest rewards. We've recently had another thread from a new player that wanted to skip x, y and z because he wanted to beeline into legendaries(!) and then started realising he can't do everything at the same time and still need previous content to achieve his goal. Some players have different -non legendary- goals and don't need to backtrack. Except they can still try to beeline into the rewards while skipping the learning proccess and events/content that requires them to at least partially pull their weight is the only thing standing in their way. It... really isn't rocket science.

It also doesn't mean it's the only possibility and that nobody tries to improve or whatever spin you'll try to take on what I've just said. It's just one of the very clear and obvious ways for why some players play how they play and then say what they say with all the "exlusatory!" and "elitist!" buzzwords.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[mythical.6315]

4 hours ago, Blude.6812 said:

With the meta as well the forced strikes if you want the best modules, I have come to regret my this EXP purchase. Playing all the other maps WHEN I do play nowadays. I am sure that I am not the only long term player that feels disappointed with the direction that Anet is taking the game. It's too bad because I did like the the looks of the EOD maps.

The best modules?  Neither that meta nor the strikes drop any that I would consider the best. 

[Sobx.1758]

15 minutes ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

People really need to stop with this mindset... Open World is NOT meant to be hardcore content, it never was

Open World is literally casual content, that's why it's OPEN WORLD, it ain't supposed to be Raids/Strikes/Fractals... 

The only thing "open world" means is that it's "open world". It has nothing to do with the level of difficulty of the content within OW and it can easly have both easy and hard types of content.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

13 minutes ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

People really need to stop with this mindset... Open World is NOT meant to be hardcore content, it never was

Open World is literally casual content, that's why it's OPEN WORLD, it ain't supposed to be Raids/Strikes/Fractals... 

People really need to stop with this mindset... Not being able to have the game on second monitor is not hardcore content, it never was.

Noone said Open World is meant to be hardcore, Raizel said that GW2's open world is so easy you can do OW stuff while watching a movie or anything like that. Having to pay attention to something in the game doesn't magically make it a Raid.

If something is inconvenient, or requires more than minimum effort it doesn't automatically mean you are Raiding.

[Erise.5614]

17 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I don't see where he made any theory about "everyone wanting to become a min/max player". This seems like another, almost randomized claim that has nothing to do with what you've quoted in order to pretend the post you're quoting is offending someone. But it doesn't.

Calling the skills necessary to beat Soo Won the basic knowledge of fundamental game mechanics implies this.

You need to optimize your gameplay for combat efficiency. You don't need to be perfect at min maxing. But you need to understand most things relating to the combat system and actively make choices towards optimal output.

You need to at least try and min/max. Players making decisions for, as example, roleplaying reasons are doing it objectively wrong and harm their maps chances.

17 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Again... what are you even talking about? Players "leeching deal a significant amount of dps during burn phases"? At that point, they're not exactly "leeching", IF only by their significant contribution in dps. 😐 But the fact it's "just dps burn and no mechanics done" seems to also be baseless and simply drawing a narrative you want to draw with nothing factual behind it.

It's based on my observations in AB. Where dealing damage is a relatively small amount of participation and you can clearly see people idling for most of the event near octo.

And, to be fair. The claim I responded did not have more context or sources. 

17 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

It also doesn't mean it's the only possibility and that nobody tries to improve or whatever spin you'll try to take on what I've just said. It's just one of the very clear and obvious ways for why some players play how they play and then say what they say with all the "exlusatory!" and "elitist!" buzzwords.

I mean. It is exclusionary. You just explained in your edit how people have to play content in order. But to be fair. That's not an issue. It's fine for hard content to be locked and for people deciding for themselves to stay out of other kind of content. Raids are a good example. I've not seen a lot of non raiders complain about the gameplay in raids. They just opt out and don't play that content. Some complain about exclusive rewards locked behind raids. Which is a different discussion. But it's not a problem for some content to cater to only a certain audience and to be exclusionary. It just needs to be communicated and presented that way. By ANet. Inside of the game. Instead of introducing steep jumps in difficulty in an existing content format. I think both Soo Won and Harvest Temple are not great in that regard.

The elitist part is the simultaneous belief that everyone has to become really good at the game to keep playing (e.g. "the game has been too easy so people never had to learn") while simultaneously complaining about players who are not yet at that point. Blaming them for not having a good time.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Erise.5614 said:

Calling the skills necessary to beat Soo Won the basic knowledge of fundamental game mechanics implies this.

Implies what? Those skills are explained withing the content of EoD itself on the way you get to DE, starting with the training grounds heart early in the expansion.

And it still doesn't somehow imply that everyone has "min-max mindset", I don't get how you're getting from "point a" to "point b" here.

You're using some CC skill/s on breakbars? It means you're minmaxing! -no, it doesn't.

You're dealing 7k dps while buffed in squads? It means you're minmaxing! -again, not even close.

Quote

You need to optimize your gameplay for combat efficiency. You don't need to be perfect at min maxing. But you need to understand most things relating to the combat system and actively make choices towards optimal output.

You need to at least try and min/max. Players making decisions for, as example, roleplaying reasons are doing it objectively wrong and harm their maps chances.

Yeah, not only "you don't need to be perfect in min-maxing", but for what's required here, you don't need to "min-max" at all. Again, understanding and using game's mechanics has nothing to do with min-maxing by itself, it's much more than that.

It seems the miscommunication here comes from your misuse/misunderstanding of the terms you're trying to use. Again, the mere understanding/utilizing of game's mechanics (which is what was said in the post above, right?) by itself is not even close to "min-maxing", so this is absolutely not what was "suggested" in the post you were responding to.

Quote

It's based on my observations in AB. Where dealing damage is a relatively small amount of participation and you can clearly see people idling for most of the event near octo.

And, to be fair. The claim I responded did not have more context or sources. 

...isn't AB one of those metas where if everyone participating would go for the meta mechanics, half of them would just make "empty runs" since the mechanics would just be done anyways? Pretty sure that's a fact, considering that a lot of the times people straight up need to striaght up semi-afk to wait for other sides to be ready. Admittedly, I think it's less so for some time now, since the dps is high enough for people to not even bother waiting and it still just succeeds -certainly wouldn't be the case if we were talking about players with dps heavily under ~7k(? I might be confusing some numerical values here though) while buffed, which is what the complaint in DE usually is on this forum?

 

1 hour ago, Erise.5614 said:

I mean. It is exclusionary. You just explained in your edit how people have to play content in order. But to be fair. That's not an issue.

Yeah, exactly, it's not a problem, since that's equivalent of someone skipping the tutorial and then complaining about there not being a tutorial. That still doesn't make it "exclusionary" though, so... 🤨 

Edited May 30, 2022 by Sobx.1758