An apology to the sound designers

[Danikat.8537]

I feel I need to apologise to the sound designers, composers, voice actors and anyone else involved in sound for Guild Wars 2 for unknowingly disrespecting their work.

You see, for the past 18 years I've had the same PC speakers. Yes I do mean 18 years, they are nothing if not durable. Unfortunately that's the nicest thing you could say for them. They came with my old Dell student PC and were probably always designed to be adequate and affordable. They outlived that computer, and it's replacement, and the replacement's rebuild and never got replaced because...they worked, they were good enough. When I got a new PC last week I decided to go all out and replace everything except the monitor (which is relatively new) and those dinky old PC speakers got replaced with a pair of Presonus Eris monitors, which can be tuned to work as speakers.

I knew my music would sound better (even the small MP3s) but the real surprise came when I booted up Guild Wars 2 for the first time. It's like a different game, I swear there's entire sound effects I'd never heard before, and so much more depth and detail to the ones I had. I had no idea what I'd been missing, which makes sense because it had always been missing, the entire lifespan of the game I'd been using those speakers. I'd expected to spend some time roaming around seeing how things looked with an upgraded graphics card, but the only change there is I can have reflections set to all, but instead what I've been doing is going around listening to the game.

I can't believe I've been missing this for nearly a decade, and all I can say is I'm sorry I didn't make the effort to do your work justice before now.

[kharmin.7683]

This is why I often play GW2 with my headphones.  I hear things, sometimes distant and to the side, which I wouldn't have heard through standard speakers.  It is really wonderful the depth that the ambient sounds and conversations add to the feel of the game.

[Farohna.6247]

Lol that's some longevity out of those speakers.  Glad you can finally hear the game!  Isn't is lovely?  I use headphones and when I don't wear them for a while then put them back on I am always amazed at the sounds.  Lol enjoy exploring a new aspect of the game. 

[Vayne.8563]

This game has always been a work of art, and that's always included the sounds. Glad you've finally experienced it!

[Tails.9372]

They do a good job for the most part (and occasionally an excellent job in places you wouldn't expect like in that IBS minigame that turns you into a bird), I especially like the Asura character into theme (which sadly seems to be an unreleased BGM) but while it's good to give credit where credit is due there are also areas where the GW2 sound design is outstandingly horrendous to the point where it can actually impact your gameplay experience in a negative way, either by being immersion breaking (e.g. by them giving a laser rifle the same sound effects as a musket) or by it just being so obnoxious that they make me want to turn of the sound completely which again leads to the fist issue (e.g. when I play P/P thief: for any pistol not named HOPE, which is a shame as there are some really good pistol skins I feel compelled to ignore solely because of this).

[Rubi Bayer.8493]

Congratulations on your upgrade and thank you for sharing this. ❤️ I sent a link to your post to our audio director--I think he and the rest of that team will love your update!

[Batel.9206]

32 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

I especially like the Asura character into theme (which sadly seems to be an unreleased BGM)

You mean this?

Spoiler

 

As far as sound design goes - I agree, it's wonderful. Last night I got one of the Imbued Holographic Weapons - the staff - and spent a while playing around with it to see how it looks. It wasn't until I was in a quiet place later that I realized it actually makes a noise when you unsheathe it and put it back: a low, droning, humming buzz. (Cue me, like a delighted small child, spending about five solid minutes just taking it out and putting it back purely to hear that lovely sound.) Little things like that are awesome.

It's also fun, with headphones on, to hear conversations off to the side or behind. Really makes the world feel alive. 🙂

[Rogue.8235]

6 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

I feel I need to apologise to the sound designers, composers, voice actors and anyone else involved in sound for Guild Wars 2 for unknowingly disrespecting their work.

You see, for the past 18 years I've had the same PC speakers. Yes I do mean 18 years, they are nothing if not durable. Unfortunately that's the nicest thing you could say for them. They came with my old Dell student PC and were probably always designed to be adequate and affordable. They outlived that computer, and it's replacement, and the replacement's rebuild and never got replaced because...they worked, they were good enough. When I got a new PC last week I decided to go all out and replace everything except the monitor (which is relatively new) and those dinky old PC speakers got replaced with a pair of Presonus Eris monitors, which can be tuned to work as speakers.

I knew my music would sound better (even the small MP3s) but the real surprise came when I booted up Guild Wars 2 for the first time. It's like a different game, I swear there's entire sound effects I'd never heard before, and so much more depth and detail to the ones I had. I had no idea what I'd been missing, which makes sense because it had always been missing, the entire lifespan of the game I'd been using those speakers. I'd expected to spend some time roaming around seeing how things looked with an upgraded graphics card, but the only change there is I can have reflections set to all, but instead what I've been doing is going around listening to the game.

I can't believe I've been missing this for nearly a decade, and all I can say is I'm sorry I didn't make the effort to do your work justice before now.

 

6 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

This is why I often play GW2 with my headphones.  I hear things, sometimes distant and to the side, which I wouldn't have heard through standard speakers.  It is really wonderful the depth that the ambient sounds and conversations add to the feel of the game.

 

You two now understand how a blind player plays this game.  The sound crew (krewe?) did such an amazing job with the audio cues and audio feedback that I can use sound to identify who is where and what's going on.  Unfortunately, cliffs don't make sounds.  Cliffs kill me all the time.  Stupid cliffs. 😎

 

@Rubi Bayer.8493  Please extend my gratitude as well.  They made a truly accessible game.  And also let them know I definitely notice when they add audio to features in the game, such as the audio feedback for race checkpoints.  I noticed those immediately and it was amazing!  

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Yeah they music is amazing and the sound engineers know what they are doing. I have a great headset and I appreciate it whenever I put it on.

That said I am part deaf, so there are some quieter sounds that I can't hear until I jack the volume to an otherwise uncomfortable level...

Makes fighting thieves hard sometimes.

@Rubi Bayer.8493, is there any way that a sound equalizer can be added to the game? Something that can make quiet sounds louder without making other sound channels louder? I'm sure that there may be something like that third party, but anything that the in house sound engineers comes up with would probably be better quality for the game.

[Gibson.4036]

I remember when I discovered how good the positioning of sound is in this game during beta. I was stunned by how realistically I could pinpoint where a couple of NPCs were just by the listening to their conversation as I moved around the area.

[Kaliwenda.3428]

10 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

I feel I need to apologise to the sound designers, composers, voice actors and anyone else involved in sound for Guild Wars 2 for unknowingly disrespecting their work.

You see, for the past 18 years I've had the same PC speakers. Yes I do mean 18 years, they are nothing if not durable. Unfortunately that's the nicest thing you could say for them. They came with my old Dell student PC and were probably always designed to be adequate and affordable. They outlived that computer, and it's replacement, and the replacement's rebuild and never got replaced because...they worked, they were good enough. When I got a new PC last week I decided to go all out and replace everything except the monitor (which is relatively new) and those dinky old PC speakers got replaced with a pair of Presonus Eris monitors, which can be tuned to work as speakers.

I knew my music would sound better (even the small MP3s) but the real surprise came when I booted up Guild Wars 2 for the first time. It's like a different game, I swear there's entire sound effects I'd never heard before, and so much more depth and detail to the ones I had. I had no idea what I'd been missing, which makes sense because it had always been missing, the entire lifespan of the game I'd been using those speakers. I'd expected to spend some time roaming around seeing how things looked with an upgraded graphics card, but the only change there is I can have reflections set to all, but instead what I've been doing is going around listening to the game.

I can't believe I've been missing this for nearly a decade, and all I can say is I'm sorry I didn't make the effort to do your work justice before now.

I'm happy for you!  I always play with headphones...the sound design is so detailed.

One example I marveled at recently was when I was doing a Kryta daily at the vista in Divinity's Reach, at the spot near the portal to Lion's arch.  I got the chest and when my asura said "It's not showing off if you earned it" her voice was a little muffled because the vast space she was standing in kindof swallowed it up...like sounds getting lost in a cavernous room.  It was amazing!

[Mungrul.9358]

It's mostly good stuff, but they do need to take a look at how the game handles surround sound, as I highlight in this thread.

[squeegee.4320]

7 hours ago, Tails.9372 said:

by being immersion breaking (e.g. by them giving a laser rifle the same sound effects as a musket)

Or by my Silly Scimitar making metal ringing sounds when sheathing and unsheathing.

[Dante.1508]

Yes the music is pleasant.

Edited June 18, 2022 by Dante.1508

[Danikat.8537]

18 hours ago, Farohna.6247 said:

Lol that's some longevity out of those speakers.  Glad you can finally hear the game!  Isn't is lovely?  I use headphones and when I don't wear them for a while then put them back on I am always amazed at the sounds.  Lol enjoy exploring a new aspect of the game. 

I usually can't use headphones, because I need to be aware of what's going on in the room around me. A lot of the time I play with the sound off completely (which is another reason I replacing the speakers wasn't a priority). But my old computer didn't sound that impressive even through headphones, I don't think the sound card was up to much.
 

13 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Congratulations on your upgrade and thank you for sharing this. ❤️ I sent a link to your post to our audio director--I think he and the rest of that team will love your update!

Thanks for passing the message on! 🙂 I always thought the game sounded good (I have some of the soundtracks and often listen to them while working) but I had no idea how good it was until now.
 

13 hours ago, Rogue.8235 said:

You two now understand how a blind player plays this game.  The sound crew (krewe?) did such an amazing job with the audio cues and audio feedback that I can use sound to identify who is where and what's going on.  Unfortunately, cliffs don't make sounds.  Cliffs kill me all the time.  Stupid cliffs. 😎

 

@Rubi Bayer.8493  Please extend my gratitude as well.  They made a truly accessible game.  And also let them know I definitely notice when they add audio to features in the game, such as the audio feedback for race checkpoints.  I noticed those immediately and it was amazing! 

I still don't understand how you play. A while ago I tried playing with my eyes closed, and I tried it again after you posted this and I can't do it. I can hear a lot of stuff, but I can't interpret it that well. Maybe I'd get better with practice, but I continue to be amazed at your skill.

(Also if it's any consolation sight doesn't always help with cliffs. They're sneaky, always appearing when you least expect it. I wouldn't be surprised to learn they've been responsible for more player deaths than anything else in the game.)

[Cyninja.2954]

Guild Wars 2 was always absolute top tier in regards to nearly anything sound related.

From the soundtracks in core Tyria to the most recent ones in EoD, there are sime great and memorable pieces.

The same goes for most of the voice acting and environmental sounds.

I believe this became very evident during the first year of COVID when the Drizzlewood maps released without the usual environmental details implemented. I recall a lot of players, myself included, which realised judt how much life and depth this game receives from just well done details here and there sound wise.

After all how else would I know if what I am wearing is:"That's quality armor." "Thanks" for that sound department. 

Edited June 18, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[HowlKamui.5120]

Congrats on the update, now check out every other game you've ever played as well!

[ugrakarma.9416]

the night on gw2 have unique sounds too, like crikets. 

[Rogue.8235]

13 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

I still don't understand how you play. A while ago I tried playing with my eyes closed, and I tried it again after you posted this and I can't do it. I can hear a lot of stuff, but I can't interpret it that well. Maybe I'd get better with practice, but I continue to be amazed at your skill.

(Also if it's any consolation sight doesn't always help with cliffs. They're sneaky, always appearing when you least expect it. I wouldn't be surprised to learn they've been responsible for more player deaths than anything else in the game.)

One thing that was extremely difficult to do when I was first blind is to be attentive to sound.  I was an extremely visual person, and I was, naturally, an extremely visually perceptive person.  I quickly noticed things, visually, and immediately reacted without the need for conscious thought.  Now that I'm blind, I require that same level of perception and reaction for sound, which was stupidly hard to adapt to.  I now have years of experience doing this, so my being able to play the game off of audio cues is an extension of that life skill.

Think of it this way, how long do players require before they automatically react to red circles on the ground?  It's learned behavior.  To have the same level of responsiveness to sound requires continuous practice.

The other half is based on timing and direction.  Just like seeing dredge let's you know where in the map you are, hearing dredge gives me a rough estimate of where on the map I am.  I track my cardinal directions and pathing so I can retrace my steps.  This is important because tracking the shape of my pathing helps me map out the zone.  Mapping is the longest and most difficult part of playing blind.  It requires patience and extreme amounts of time and memory exercises.  Fortunately, when GW2 was released, I had vision.  I played core Tyria so much that I can literally do it blind with ease.  I was blinded shortly before the release of HoT.  So HoT and afterwords are the maps taht take me a long time to learn, and I am still learning.

Zone mapping usually isn't too bad if you're patient.  However, the Season 2 story mission in the labyrinth is the single most frusterating thing for me to do in the game.  I can solo the story with relative ease, except for that single story mission.  And that is because it is such a confusing thing to map out blind, and there are no real ways to have audio help me identify landmarks.  In real life, I can listen to patterns of reverberation and dead space to know my surroundings.  This has yet to be emulated in any video game due to limitations of technology.

GW2 has some basic reverb feedback, so you can tell if you're in a cave or not.  That helps with open-world stuff.    For example, hearing a cave mixed with spider and bat sounds in Gendarran Fields is immediately recognized as the Southern caves of the map, slightly East.  This is easily confirmed by traveling West to hear centaurs.  I know that Southeastern cave has a vet spider and an HP.  This is memory from when I had vision.

My goal is to have this level of knowledge and memory for all new maps.  The ones I am least familiar with is HoT maps, simply because I don't have much luxury to explore and map at my own pace.  There is no time for me to pause and recap my pathing.

 

Speaking of HoT maps, these are my favorite cliff memories.  When I first got the raptor, I immediately revisited HoT, thinking it would be easier now.  Nope.  I get on my yoshi, run and jump around, and then:

"ugh, my character isn't responsive anymore.... oh skritt I must be in the air.... yep definitely in the air so... yep that means the ground disappeared after I jumped... no death song playing so I'm still alive... this is amazing hang time for me to be in the air this long... poor raptor, she trusted me!  But sorry I occasionally jump us off cliffs... seriously how far will I be falling before" *splat*

Note to self, there's a cliff somewhere in that area.

 

 

 

One thing I want you to try.  Try PvP blind so you can notice something with me.  Thieves are THE loudest profession in the entire game.  I can hear thief dodges from a map away.  Because thief skills and doges have such loud and distinct audio cues, it is the most telegraphed profession to me.  Thieves are the easiest thing for me to kill regardless of what profession I'm playing because I can predict the burst, stealth does nothing to hinder me because I'm predicting your movements anyways, and I can hear you dodging/heartseeking in that black powder shot to "sneak" up on me.

You know how quickly you dodge from red circles on the ground?  I react just as quickly to the sound of dragonhunter traps.  As soon as I hear them I'm out.

 

[squeegee.4320]

3 hours ago, Rogue.8235 said:

One thing that was extremely difficult to do when I was first blind is to be attentive to sound.  I was an extremely visual person, and I was, naturally, an extremely visually perceptive person.  I quickly noticed things, visually, and immediately reacted without the need for conscious thought.  Now that I'm blind, I require that same level of perception and reaction for sound, which was stupidly hard to adapt to.  I now have years of experience doing this, so my being able to play the game off of audio cues is an extension of that life skill.

Think of it this way, how long do players require before they automatically react to red circles on the ground?  It's learned behavior.  To have the same level of responsiveness to sound requires continuous practice.

The other half is based on timing and direction.  Just like seeing dredge let's you know where in the map you are, hearing dredge gives me a rough estimate of where on the map I am.  I track my cardinal directions and pathing so I can retrace my steps.  This is important because tracking the shape of my pathing helps me map out the zone.  Mapping is the longest and most difficult part of playing blind.  It requires patience and extreme amounts of time and memory exercises.  Fortunately, when GW2 was released, I had vision.  I played core Tyria so much that I can literally do it blind with ease.  I was blinded shortly before the release of HoT.  So HoT and afterwords are the maps taht take me a long time to learn, and I am still learning.

Zone mapping usually isn't too bad if you're patient.  However, the Season 2 story mission in the labyrinth is the single most frusterating thing for me to do in the game.  I can solo the story with relative ease, except for that single story mission.  And that is because it is such a confusing thing to map out blind, and there are no real ways to have audio help me identify landmarks.  In real life, I can listen to patterns of reverberation and dead space to know my surroundings.  This has yet to be emulated in any video game due to limitations of technology.

GW2 has some basic reverb feedback, so you can tell if you're in a cave or not.  That helps with open-world stuff.    For example, hearing a cave mixed with spider and bat sounds in Gendarran Fields is immediately recognized as the Southern caves of the map, slightly East.  This is easily confirmed by traveling West to hear centaurs.  I know that Southeastern cave has a vet spider and an HP.  This is memory from when I had vision.

My goal is to have this level of knowledge and memory for all new maps.  The ones I am least familiar with is HoT maps, simply because I don't have much luxury to explore and map at my own pace.  There is no time for me to pause and recap my pathing.

 

Speaking of HoT maps, these are my favorite cliff memories.  When I first got the raptor, I immediately revisited HoT, thinking it would be easier now.  Nope.  I get on my yoshi, run and jump around, and then:

"ugh, my character isn't responsive anymore.... oh skritt I must be in the air.... yep definitely in the air so... yep that means the ground disappeared after I jumped... no death song playing so I'm still alive... this is amazing hang time for me to be in the air this long... poor raptor, she trusted me!  But sorry I occasionally jump us off cliffs... seriously how far will I be falling before" *splat*

Note to self, there's a cliff somewhere in that area.

 

 

 

One thing I want you to try.  Try PvP blind so you can notice something with me.  Thieves are THE loudest profession in the entire game.  I can hear thief dodges from a map away.  Because thief skills and doges have such loud and distinct audio cues, it is the most telegraphed profession to me.  Thieves are the easiest thing for me to kill regardless of what profession I'm playing because I can predict the burst, stealth does nothing to hinder me because I'm predicting your movements anyways, and I can hear you dodging/heartseeking in that black powder shot to "sneak" up on me.

You know how quickly you dodge from red circles on the ground?  I react just as quickly to the sound of dragonhunter traps.  As soon as I hear them I'm out.

 

This is a really interesting post and I am glad you typed it out.

[Ultramex.1506]

Tee Shatterer branded crystal humming is one of the best imo, its strangely calming. There was a bug that after the fight, the crystal didn't de-spawn, this give me the chance to hear it, too bad  you can't normally hear it among the chaos.

[notebene.3190]

On 6/17/2022 at 3:02 PM, Mungrul.9358 said:

It's mostly good stuff, but they do need to take a look at how the game handles surround sound, as I highlight in this thread.

For me it’s especially noticeable now that they do story in the game engine vs the old side by side. I find myself having to do movement and camera gymnastics so I can hear what everyone is saying.

I wish they would hang a speaker for important or story voices in a speaker that’s mounted in front of the camera a few feet so no matter where you looked or how you were zoomed out, all those voices (or important sounds) came out center speaker in your face.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

One of the unfortunate thing I've learned about a lot of new players is that they play with the sound off.  A lot of people don't know that there's a plethora of audio cues for enemy attacks, environmental effects, teammate status, etc.  I myself generally play with the sound off (due to tinnitus), except when I have to command players or do extremely difficult content.  Then, I crank up the volume and let my ears do the work my eyes cannot.  

[Kaliwenda.3428]

18 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

One of the unfortunate thing I've learned about a lot of new players is that they play with the sound off.  A lot of people don't know that there's a plethora of audio cues for enemy attacks, environmental effects, teammate status, etc.  I myself generally play with the sound off (due to tinnitus), except when I have to command players or do extremely difficult content.  Then, I crank up the volume and let my ears do the work my eyes cannot.  

I have tinnitus too, have had it for over 20 years now, and I find the only thing that keeps me sane is to keep earbuds in with music, podcasts, or audio books playing as much as I possibly can when I'm at home.  When I'm out running errands there's so much else to pay attention to that it doesn't bother me.  Just as a test I took out my earbuds to type this and there's been  a high-pitched ringing in my ears the whole time.