Fishing lacks integration with the rest of the game. [Merged]

[Boogiepop Void.6473]

Fishing is in many ways simply not integrated into the game. You have to actively choose to fish or do other things but cannot do both. Even inside fishing, several things are awkwardly implemented with their own systems.

1. Fishing Party Buff - You lose this if you change maps or stop fishing (even if you get deboated by enemies, which in some areas is unavoidable, to the point you can literally go to the other end of the map and not drop aggro and so are forced to lose stacks to deal with them) almost immediately. This means you have to actively ignore the rest of the game to keep your stacks. You cannot do ANYTHING else while fishing. Not events, not gathering, NOTHING, because you will lose your stacks. If an event happens literally AROUND you, you have to not participate because stopping costs you hours of fish progress. Fishing actively blocks you from playing the game. Also, if you run out of bait, lures, etc., you have to lose your stacks to go buy more (even if they are right next to the water). And if the map closes on you and you are forcibly transitioned it is a horrible experience. Or if you need to go to another map due to needding to change fishing hole types you are ACTIVELY punished.
2. Siloed foods - ingredients you get from fishing are only for food to make fishing power food. You cannot fish to do anything to effect any other part of the game except... As pointed out there are a very few foods that are not just for fishing. But even then it's mostly fishing things.
3. Ambergris - It is the only thing fishing has (outside junk items) with any value anywhere else in the game. This makes it basically the main goal for fishing most times. You end up breaking apart everything and using it to get ambergris from merchants.
4. Daily - There is a fishing daily, that almost no one knows exists until they are told, because it is the only daily NOT in the daily section of the achievements panel. Also, to redeem it, you have to go to arborstone, losing your stacks in the process due to map change.
5. Daily (part 2) - there is sometimes a daily in EoD for a specific region, but it does not show in that region if it's not in EoD and due to map changing you lose your stacks to go get it meaning you often skip it to stay where you are because, again, changing maps FOR ANY REASON is a huge loss.
6. Tag interference - you want to get people together to build up and share stacks, However, having a com tag on blocks the fishing indicator, preventing people from fishing while leading and in lfg. This means people don't tag up, meaning they are hard to find on the map to group up for fishing parities, defeating the purpose.
7. Baits - almost all the baits are the same. A very few fish have specific baits they need but on the whole baits are almost meaningless, and so simply serve as inventory clutter.
8. Times - The time of day system is very awkward, especially dawn and dusk. Again because you can't stop fishing to do something else until the next time window and come back, it feels horrible to just miss things, and for the dawn and dusk fish the time window is very tiny so you feel rushed trying to get them and horrible if you get other things.

Some of this needs deeper work, but a quick fix would be to at least change the fishing buff issues. Give it a longer coooldown, at least a few minutes to allow for gathering, dealing with water ads,  and restocking, and remove the map change issue entirely. Better still make it and hour or more so you can do events and come back. Put the daily fish in the daily panel and the daily region in a general place and not EoD. More food and making bait have meaning and such would be nice but will take longer.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Boogiepop Void.6473

[mindcircus.1506]

1 hour ago, Boogiepop Void.6473 said:

Fishing is in many ways simply not integrated into the game. You have to actively choose to fish or do other things but cannot do both.

Sounds like good design to me.

[kiri.1467]

I just wish they would change it so that if I have to change map due to map closure, I can keep my fishing stacks. I was on one map yesterday where this happened four times. Nothing I can do about it. Stacks kept resetting as I kept getting ping-ponged around the server.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Boogiepop Void.6473 said:

• Siloed foods - ingredients you get from fishing are only for food to make fishing power food. You cannot fish to do anything to effect any other part of the game except...

Not true.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Kimchi_Tofu_Stew

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fishy_Rice_Bowl

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Jade_Sea_Bounty

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Echovald_Hotpot

And so on.

1 hour ago, Boogiepop Void.6473 said:

• Daily - There is a fishing daily, that almost no one knows exists until they are told, because it is the only daily NOT in the daily section of the achievements panel. Also, to redeem it, you have to go to arborstone, losing your stacks in the process due to map change.

Do you mean Canthan Wanderer? It's not in daily category, because that's not a daily achievements. It follows the normal gw2 achievement split -comparable to the "finish 3x dailies x times" during festivals. Dailies are in dailies. Accumulating dailies are not in dailies, nothing out of ordinary about it.

Quote

• Daily (part 2) - there is sometimes a daily in EoD for a specific region, but it does not show in that region if it's not in EoD and due to map changing you lose your stacks to go get it meaning you often skip it to stay where you are because, again, changing maps FOR ANY REASON is a huge loss.

Just... check your dailies when you log in and decide which ones you want to do. Never seen that as a problem tbh.

 

Complaint about ambergris is... what exactly? That you can get from fishing something that's worth gold? It's useful, you can either use it or sell it, so I don't get what the problem with it is.

tbh I don't know anything about the issue with a tag. What I know is that you can create a group and advertise in lfg without the tag on. Doesn't that fix the problem, or did I not understand the issue?

Fishing party buff could be better, even if only by keeping it on instance (of the same map) change, true. But I'm not sure it's needed to be kept on map switch, since pretty sure just having it maxed out all the time is not its purpose.

From what I understand the bait has a meaning, it helps you catch the fish you want, doesn't it?

 

 

Overally: sure, it does have some issues. But I think you're trying to overblow it out of proportion and personally I don't agree about lack of integration with the rest of the game. You can just additionally benefit from focusing on fishing, the same you can benefit from farming x event or following the meta train. Maybe I just don't understand the issue you're talking about.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Randulf.7614]

Fishing’s only real integration should be for crafting purposes (ie chef) and collections/achievements. Choosing between fishing or doing something else is entirely how it should be.

Either;

Simplify the lure/bait system and add them into every merchant everywhere in the game for quick access where EoD is unlocked. Any mechanic where a specific bait/lure is needed for a fish take out (if it exists, I’m hazy on that). Map and time of day and rng is already more than enough.

or remove them entirely and switch fishing power out for core/relevant expac mastery lines - one for every region to improve your skill via a system already in place (add in some extra mastery points too)

Fishing isn’t awfully done and there are some great ideas in there (like tying it to boats and having people fish together on one, special pools for fish, night and day fishing), but as usual Anet over thought an idea which didn’t need it by layering idea, over idea, over idea.
 

It’s a casual, side activity and it mostly works just fine. It just needs some minor tweaks and Anet to relearn this is a video game not an excel spreadsheet.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Randulf.7614

[Ashen.2907]

35 minutes ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

Sounds like good design to me.

This.

Personally I would rather not see too much more in the way of dev resources put into fishing until monetization of fishing is increased.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Ashen.2907

[Xerxez.7361]

45 minutes ago, kiri.1467 said:

I just wish they would change it so that if I have to change map due to map closure, I can keep my fishing stacks. I was on one map yesterday where this happened four times. Nothing I can do about it. Stacks kept resetting as I kept getting ping-ponged around the server.

 

Its not much, but at least you get an extra hour before you get ping ponged.

[mindcircus.1506]

29 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

This.

Personally I would rather not see too much more in the way of dev resources put into fishing until monetization of fishing is increased.

I could care less about the monetization.
I recognize the system's value in terms of engagement. I see plenty of people fishing.

But this idea that the fishing system is supposed to be some kind of passive gold farm where people need to be doing other things at the same time?

Hot garbage.

[mindcircus.1506]

50 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Simplify the lure/bait system and add them into every merchant everywhere in the game for quick access where EoD is unlocked.

Wouldn't a better solution be to offer the player the opportunity to earn a portable lure/bait merchant usable everywhere, on a moderate cool down....that is gained by say getting CWAMM?

[Randulf.7614]

18 minutes ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

Wouldn't a better solution be to offer the player the opportunity to earn a portable lure/bait merchant usable everywhere, on a moderate cool down....that is gained by say getting CWAMM?

An option I hadn’t considered, but I wouldn’t say it was better, more one that could work in tangent. Baits and lures are a bit of a naff idea, but if they insist on using them, all merchants and a portable one you could earn would work together

[Randulf.7614]

28 minutes ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

I could care less about the monetization.
I recognize the system's value in terms of engagement. I see plenty of people fishing.

But this idea that the fishing system is supposed to be some kind of passive gold farm where people need to be doing other things at the same time?

Hot garbage.

Agreed

[Infinity.2876]

What if you got the rewards of fishing by killing fish underwater in that area.

I like the profession diversity of the game but with fishing everyone is the same.

I find that kind of boring

[Boogiepop Void.6473]

Clarification: I am not saying "let me zone out and give me gold". I am saying if I am fishing a d RIGHT NEXT TO ME an event is being run by a train, let me STOP FISHING, go help the event, then come back WITHOUT BEING PENALIZED. Let me participate in the game instead of ignoring it.

 

For example just today I was fishing in Crystal Oasis. A bounty train pulled up for Choya right next to me. I couldn't go do it with them because I would lose my 99 stacks. That's what I mean by "being forced to ignore the game". I couldn't stop for even 5 minutes or I lose that progress it took me an hour to build up.

[mythical.6315]

Fishing is fine as it is as it's a side activity to do when you're bored. 

That said, they could do something about fishing stacks persisting across instances of the same map.

Edited July 8, 2022 by mythical.6315

[Dante.1508]

Fishing is best avoided. Kinda like the rest of EoD.

[Andy.5981]

Its pretty much ok as it is.

The only things I would agree with is the fact that loosing fishing stacks when swapping a map isn't good. The obvious solution to this is would be to allow the stacks to move with you if you actively select the swap map icon when it pops. Moving to any other map should remove the stacks.

The other thing I would alter is allow the dusk/dawn fish to be caught for a period starting and ending 5 minutes before and 5 minutes after the dusk/dawn period, giving a 15 minute window rather than a 5 minute window.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Andy.5981

[kharmin.7683]

I'm glad there is no integration.  I would hate for content to be gated behind this activity.

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

90% of this thread only read the title. the op never asked for it to be integral to other systems but that it does not exclude you from other activities. 
in fact its the losing of fishing buff and its related issues that make map like

DUN DUN DUUUUUUUN
Dragon's End!
such a chore for ALL on the map. if people could stop fishing, help out with the meta event and go back it would dandy as heck

[vanfrano.1325]

Agreed with OP. Also, I want them to unlink fishing from the skiff, which would make it useless, I know. And remove that useless "yeah!" animation every time I catch a fish. First game ever where I dislike fishing.

They should rework each and every concept from EoD or remove EoD altogether 😄

Edited July 8, 2022 by vanfrano.1325

[Ashantara.8731]

I haven't touched this activity since I got all related achievements, so it's obvious that this isn't an activity that is worth my time. I hope they will find a way to make it worthwhile in future content.

[Boogiepop Void.6473]

Right now the fishing buff blocks you from doing many things, because it will be lost and takes so long to build up. So you have to actively not do/ignore things in the game and just fish to maintain the buff, as losing it is a huge cost in time and effort.

1. Map change - If you move to another map you lose it. That includes being unwillingly map changed due to low population. You need to change fishing hole type sometimes, and this makes you very reluctant to do so as it will take a LONG time to rebuild your stacks.
2. Location change - even inside the same map, moving between disconnected bodies of water (for example due to running out of holes to fish) causes you to lose the buff. This forces you to camp a lake, actively not playing, while waiting for holes to respawn.
3. Dealing with enemies - you can get attacked in the boat. While in the boat you cannot do anything about these enemies, but if you leave the boat you lose you stacks. Moving away is sometimes not even sufficient, as some things can leash all the way to the farthest area of a particular body of water, so losing aggro without losing stacks is literally impossible. This punishes you for something over which you have no control.
4. Event participation - You cannot participate in events. Something can be happening right next to you or even around you, but if you step off your skiff you lose your stacks. This means you are actively clogging maps  to fish (ie Dragon's End) and preventing others from finishing events/metas, while also being prevented from participating yourself. This is a lose/lose situation for all involved.
5. Gathering - You cannot gather either in the water or near the water while fishing, because leaving your skiff will cause you to lose your stacks. This can be a minor to a major inconvenience, forcing needlessly tough decisions (ie do I mine the rich/rare mat node or keep my stacks).
6. Refilling Baits/Lures - Refilling your supply of baits and/or lures requires leaving your skiff to go to the merchant. This ALSO causes you to lose your stacks, so the buff even interferes with fishing itself by forcing you too lose it and have to re-earn it due to fishing itself.

NOTE: I am aware you can get the buff fast by partying/squading with someone. This does not change the design being an issue, merely slightly mitigates the problem IF you can find someone to join (which is not always an option, or people are not always willing), and just shifts the burden of nonparticipation to another. Some maps are not heavily fished (or for various reasons people actively try not to fish on them, ie Dragon's End) so this is not always an option and shouldn't be a requirement for fishing to work.

The buff needs to be changed. It should persist across map changes (absolute minimum unwilling map changes, but it would be better to have for all so you can go map to map as long as you don't daudle), should have a long enough duration in map to allow you to change lakes, should have provisions to allow gathering and restocking, and should allow for SOME participation (ie not saying leave and come back hours later, but 10-15 min let you help with a bounty or a boss right next to you in the same map shouldn't ruin your fishing). For particular maps you could have an extended pause for specific things, ie on Dragon's End it could pause to let people do the meta and then resume fishing, thus removing the issues with fishing on the map blocking the meta.

(Yes this is similar to a post I made yesterday, but people just read the title of that and responded without reading, so the point got lost in misunderstanding)

Edited July 8, 2022 by Boogiepop Void.6473

[Farohna.6247]

You bring up some good points that aren't always mentioned, like stopping for more lures, eating ascended food on shore, pausing to do an event, etc.  I think everyone agrees the buff needs to be altered to persist through map changes and a duration of time.  Maybe if they see enough requests they'll take the hint.

[sylmatyr.1485]

I had many of these same gripes initially, but I discovered there is a common misconception going around that you lose your fishing party buff if you leave your skiff and the 15 sec timer runs out.  How it actually works is that you lose your fishing party buff 15 seconds after your skiff despawns, if you do not respawn it and board it again.  If you jump off your skiff and don't dismiss it, you can take as long as you want to do something provided you don't do something that causes your skiff to despawn like get more that 3400 units away from it, hit the mount/dismount key, change maps, or enter an instance.  (There may be others.)  So, you can kill enemies attacking you, gather nearby, or participate in events nearby (though not something like Dragon's End.)  It's still a pain, but not as bad as some think.

[Farohna.6247]

20 minutes ago, sylmatyr.1485 said:

I had many of these same gripes initially, but I discovered there is a common misconception going around that you lose your fishing party buff if you leave your skiff and the 15 sec timer runs out.  How it actually works is that you lose your fishing party buff 15 seconds after your skiff despawns, if you do not respawn it and board it again.  If you jump off your skiff and don't dismiss it, you can take as long as you want to do something provided you don't do something that causes your skiff to despawn like get more that 3400 units away from it, hit the mount/dismount key, change maps, or enter an instance.  (There may be others.)  So, you can kill enemies attacking you, gather nearby, or participate in events nearby (though not something like Dragon's End.)  It's still a pain, but not as bad as some think.

I think the enemies attacking the skiff is a big one for many people.  Most of the time you're going to be out of your skiff long enough for it to despawn if you're doing something. You're right it's not instant, but needs improvement.

[Antycypator.9874]

4 hours ago, Boogiepop Void.6473 said:

While in the boat you cannot do anything about these enemies, but if you leave the boat you lose you stacks

But you regain all stacks when boarding your skiff again, unless it's destroyed/despawned, then RIP all your stacks.