October 4th Balance Patch Preview - My Thoughts

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Yeah 

What I'm going to mention here is mainly focused for spvp. These are some things I felt needed to be mentioned before this patch drops.

Elementalist:

1. Tempest Support is too dominant and too important. It needs a shave. I don't care where or how it happens but Conjure Earth Shield is probably the place to start. Why isn't this happening? People have been pointing this out for a very very long time now.
2. Catalyst is straight up too strong. Where are the Catalyst nerfs?  It's OP in pvp, but I know it's even more OP in wvw. Catalyst is currently a rolling adamantine boulder of invulnerability & death in wvw. Where are the Catalyst nerfs?

Engineer:

1. I don't know how Engi mains feel about it but I don't see any problems with the changes here. the only to note is maybe ground target stationary Gyros might not be favorable to some people and that some people may prefer Gyros that follow you.

Guardian:

1. Weird changes on DH, probably good change to FB for wvw.

Mesmer:

1. Chrono and Virtuoso gains Distortion now? I agree they need it vs non-projectile attacks. But this added Distortion is going to make Virtuoso actually invulnerable to projectile attacks. Mesmer's ability to defend vs projectiles is already extremely high across all specs, but that added Distortion is going to be the "too much" point on Virtuoso. That class is going to be straight invulnerable vs. projectiles. Make of it what you want.

Necromancer:

1. Good changes on Scourge but it's not going to change anything. There is also amazingly missed opportunity to tweak many things for Necro that needs to happen. Too much to get into here in this opening statement. Maybe discussion will stir about it in responses.

Ranger:

1. I'll go into detail on this one because I am a Ranger main. So about those Druid changes. Most of them look promising, I can roll with that. However there are a few things to note that Arenanet really needs to pay attention to. 1) Even with these new changes that are clearly meant to bolster Druid Support capabilities, Druid will still not be a viable support when set next to a Tempest or a Core Guardian or a Firebrand in wvw. This is mainly because the other supports can simultaneously use instant cast no-animation support skills on-demand while also utilizing their DPS/CC skills for offensive pressure. Druid on the other hand, everything it does is dedicated animation dependent active skill use and when it goes into CA Kit it has no offensive pressure and offensive pressure is worth defense. 2) Everything a Druid has for support actually requires aiming whereas Tempest/Guardian Supports just click a skill and it touches everything in a large radius. Druid Support is actually much more difficult to wield for this reason and often misses its mark. 3) Druid is all reactive heal/cleanse it has no damage mitigation support like Tempest/Guard. IE: Aegis/Auras/Resistance/Resolution/mass anti-projectile effects, things that prevent damage to begin with. Druid Support is weak due to this. 4) Druid Support in general is still pumping far less numbers in terms of heal/cleanse than even a Core Guardian. What Druid needed was straight buffs to its support capabilities, no alterations, no tradeoff reworks, no nerfs, just straight buffing. If you seriously want Druid to take a support role, it needs straight buffing with no nerfing to anything. One big error that was made, guarantee you this won't pan out well, was lowering Druidic Clarity 13 self cleanse down to 3 cleanse for party. This sounds like a great idea on paper but in application this isn't going to pan out well. That 13 full cleanse was like the one thing that gave Druid a niche purpose for use, being good vs. condi, and even with that full 13 cleanse and 5x wilderness utilities for 4 cleanse on heal and 2 cleanses on each utility, it still struggles to survive in the face of something like a Harbinger. When this full 13 clear is removed, the Druid won't have the kind of self-sustain it needs to actually alleviate enough pressure off itself to be able to use its team support skills, because remember, everything it does requires actual aim and it loses all offensive pressure while in CA Kit. In fact, the Druid would be able to better utilize its support skills if Druid Clarity stayed a personal 13 clear. A support can't support if it can't survive and is always focused on keeping itself alive. This will be especially true on a Druid Support who actually has dedicated animation times and requirement to aim skills, unlike Tempest/Guardian where all effects just happen in a massive radius with no aiming or travel times. Fair warning -> Keep Druidic Clarity the way it is now and Druid will be a better support with these new changes than if you change it to 3 clear for the party. Oh and one more thing, CA Kit needs to be on a 10s ICD just like it is in wvw and pve. The elongated ICD in spvp is not frequent enough of use to make a viable support that can wade into a team fight and stay without needing to kite.
2. Soulbeast will be a god of destruction when it can swap pets while merged.
3. No nerfs to Untamed? Weird man. Even as a Ranger main, I have to say that this class has 1) Too much teleburst potential. The 50% ICD reduction for if the tele hits needs to be removed. 40s CD is already leniant enough. It does not need to be generating teleburst downstates every 20s. 2) It has too much anti-projectile bubble spam. The fact that the bubble is centered on the pet which follows people, is quite powerful, quite problematic, and it happens too often. That bubble is also massive, both length and height wise. You can be in Temple way up on a ledge trying to fire over an Untamed's bubble at a different player and that bubble will block projectiles that are like 800+ range above the pet on the ground. That's too much. IMO that bubble could afford to have a longer ICD and should be decreased in size. Don't worry about reducing Untamed damage, there is no way to do it without harming other Ranger specs. It just needs less frequent telebursting and less frequent/smaller bubble.

Revenant:

1. Can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm not so sure I agree with Herald losing Quickness. Vindicator also got the slap. I'll leave any other feedback for Rev players.

Thief:

1. Specter gets the slap. This needed to happen and these nerfs look just about right. Targeting the enormous shroud was the right way to go about it.

Warrior:

1. These change actually all look good. Regardless of knit pick things Warrior mains may comment on in detail, this is all in the right direction.

 

All in all I feel like this isn't a bad patch. There were quite a few things done right, a few things done wrong, but some things that weren't done at all.

I sincerely hope Arenanet reviews player feedback about the patch notes before releasing the patch and uses this time wisely for adjustment.

I think I speak for everyone when I say we just want to see impactful good changes towards good balance that happen in the right ways and not the wrong ways.

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

Honestly hardly pay attention to balance in sPvP, but this patch seems p good on paper.

 

All praise is due to CmC for growing out of the nerf everything phase 🙏

[shion.2084]

For Engi the scrapper has been hurt by this patch if you played power dps. The change to gyros means you just have a static well, and they don’t grant quickness anymore for the extra kick in the teeth.  The changes to tool give you 10% damage…. But only if you burn a dodge roll.  I haven’t tried it yet but I believe it will relegate scrapper to a slower side mode where you’ll have to do bunker builds.  Essentially draining the fun and possibility out of the class

[Ragnar.4257]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I am a Ragner main.

Awww, shucks

[JTGuevara.9018]

Warrior main here. I like the warrior changes.

These are not just numerical changes, but reworks across the board. Straight up buffs that are sorely needed.

As far as its effects on spvp, who knows? This may bring some warriors back but to what end? pvp is essentially a walking corpse. Unless masses of players queue up and coordinate to run these kitten win-traders out the game, nothing will really change. At least warriors (those still left playing, that is...) will have a fighting chance.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

The warrior changes are substantial and a lot of them touch on things we've been discussing openly on our side of the forums since Feb2020. Spellbreaker will still need some umph I think, but Berserker will be in a MUCH better spot. The Defense changes are going to help all warrior specs in a big way.

The Tactical Reload nerf and the bug fixes are going to shine a light on where BSW is mechanically flawed and it will end up getting the touchups it needs without the bloated sustain propping it up.

[Shao.7236]

Everything about Revenant sucks, from bugs to overnerfed. I'm quite glad that they're taking away the Quickness as it was quite cringe how easy it was to faceroll damage but the rest of all the core utilities are RIDDLED with bugs and overnerfed aspects.

No matter what they do for Mallyx, it'll always be dead weight until they address Poison Modifiers not having a counter.

Jalis IR and FE are super inconsistent and not filling their niche properly because of very low numbers.

Ventari being unable to use skills in midair is extremely game breaking, the elite also wastes your energy if you're midair while casting it.

Renegade healing is horrendously bad at you can't compensate with the elite.

Vindicator is gonna have it's evade effects nerfed as soon as people start playing it because they're too strong for being used twice under 10 seconds.

Off-Hand sword was forcefully shoved in as a power weapon when it could have kept a different aspect over axe which already was a great power weapon. Duelist Preparation was a good skill that could work as a counter skill while Grasping Shadow could have either dealt more damage or be replaced by the first iteration of Deathstrike rather than just being the buggy desync mess it is now.

Hammer skill 2 is probably the buggiest bs there is right now and they have been sliding it under the rug for a while. 2 years and counting after the Shortbow changes.

[Crab Fear.8623]

3 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

Awww, shucks

 

4 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

 

Ranger:

1. I'll go into detail on this one because I am a Ragner main.

 

kitten, these forum goobers can't even see a good joke....lol Ragnar

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

~ edit

I had originally missed the portion that confirms pet swap while in merge.

Soulbeast will be incredibly strong with pet swap while in merge.

Edited September 18, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Crab Fear.8623]

Is ranger spelled  RANGER or RAGNER??

lol, its a joke

did everyone notice we can see who is in the threads now?

[Arheundel.6451]

Every thread from Trevor:

1) A wall of text with the same context....

2) Just remove anti projectile from the game....

Edited September 18, 2022 by Arheundel.6451

[Koensol.5860]

Trash take on the soulbeast petswap change. The entire point of this change is that you can basically play perma merged and get your bonusses on petswap. There will be some very interesting combo's for soulbeast and we might see some unused pets being used. For example the merged pig pets have big burst damage and good cc, that can be used alongside smokescale. Same for the pink moa which has an insane peck attack which can hit for up to like 13k on sicem soulbeast. Or what about owl for insane mobility + a burst heal?? 

Also why not just make a ranger only thread as you mostly cannot even comment on the other classes??

Edited September 18, 2022 by Koensol.5860

[ArthurDent.9538]

Vindi didn't get slapped, 2 normal length dodges is always better than 1 extra long one not even close. Might start seeing people playing it more than once every few dozen games again.

[Luthan.5236]

Posted in the main thread about this already. For PvP: I mainly played core and mecha. Did not like the scrapper and holo in PvP and WvW. This change seems to encourage to use the shield (while previous rifle buffs made people switch to rifles). I might try it again with mace/shield on  the mecha. Seeing where I can change traits and if it is possible to not take the shield trait anymore (that still gives other interesting stuff besides the cooldown reduction that now is directly integrated in the shield's skills).

Scrapper ... can't see myself using something with shield there. But taking the rifle instead of the hammer and staying mid/long ranged while the others are in melee (and being damage-focused instead of bunker-ish) ... might be worth trying. If you can use the gyro skils as wells and not stay directly within them. Having them on the point/cap circle ... that always seemed like an annoying thing when others with similar skills did this. Spamming there AoE circles there when I tried to cap and they even could damage me while ranging ... and then I had to move out of the point to counter attack and/or avoid the damage. (If they had to move and stay in melee to use the AoE circle attacks - at least counterattacks would have been possible with staying in the circle.)

Edited September 18, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Ok so it is confirmed, we will be able to swap pets while merged.

Can't wait for this patch to hit then.

Can't wait to be a god of destruction in NA.

[Hotride.2187]

18 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Catalyst is straight up too strong. Where are the Catalyst nerfs?  It's OP in pvp, but I know it's even more OP in wvw. Catalyst is currently a rolling adamantine boulder of invulnerability & death in wvw. Where are the Catalyst nerfs?

I don't think they remember players roam in wvw. They are probably like "its not in a zerg, its fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine"... Personally, cele elementalists (of all kinds, not just cata though that one is real obnoxious) is what finally drove me away from wvw. Of course on top of everyone and their dog cat and hamster running cele there.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Just now, Hotride.2187 said:

I don't think they remember players roam in wvw. They are probably like "its not in a zerg, its fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine"... Personally, cele elementalists (of all kinds, not just cata though that one is real obnoxious) is what finally drove me away from wvw. Of course on top of everyone and their dog cat and hamster running cele there.

Yeah the Cata is by far the most ridiculous though. I chose my words carefully when I said it was a "rolling adamantine boulder of invincibility & death".

It's just out of control strong, in both pvp and wvw. Absolutely no idea how it dodged nerfing. It's toxic level broken.

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

3 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Yeah the Cata is by far the most ridiculous though. I chose my words carefully when I said it was a "rolling adamantine boulder of invincibility & death".

It's just out of control strong, in both pvp and wvw. Absolutely no idea how it dodged nerfing. It's toxic level broken.

So you're either blind or purposefully ignoring the catalyst nerfs just to complain more on the forums. 

Catalyst

• Fortified Earth: Reduced base barrier from 3,000 to 2,520 in PvP only. Increased cooldown from 25 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP only.
• Rocky Loop: Reduced damage reduction from 10% to 7% in PvP only.
• Staunch Auras: Reduced stability duration from 3 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

58 minutes ago, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said:

So you're either blind or purposefully ignoring the catalyst nerfs just to complain more on the forums. 

Catalyst

• Fortified Earth: Reduced base barrier from 3,000 to 2,520 in PvP only. Increased cooldown from 25 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP only.
• Rocky Loop: Reduced damage reduction from 10% to 7% in PvP only.
• Staunch Auras: Reduced stability duration from 3 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.

Those aren't nerfs. I'm asking for real nerfs.

What is listed here are joke nerfs that will have virtually no impact on its performance value.

[Lucentfir.7430]

On 9/17/2022 at 3:06 PM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Warrior:

1. These change actually all look good. Regardless of knit pick things Warrior mains may comment on in detail, this is all in the right direction.

 

There was pretty much nothing but big wins for warrior/berserker in general with theses changes, like sure the shield master nerf  and the Whirling Axe nerf are the negatives, but there really is nothing for warrior mains to really express grievance/complain about. Big issues were address like 300s ICD traits, and adding some damage back some CC skills were addressed. I think with big changes like this, the things that'll make Warrior mains worried are going to probably be about being whined about again since I can already see how people are going to whine about not being able to faceroll damage into headbutt/defy pain + EP + Savage instinct + Dead Or Alive healing + Stance barriers, berserkers running around.  Ngl though pretty stoked to experiment with all this. 

[Nimbus Nomad.1237]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Those aren't nerfs. I'm asking for real nerfs.

What is listed here are joke nerfs that will have virtually no impact on its performance value.

Yea a 33% reduction in stab duration is not a real nerf. 

The goal is to shave off values so that it's balanced, not nerf it into the ground, but I guess you like Anet's old approach to balance. You know, the one that everyone has been complaining about for years?

What you also need to understand is Anet buffed so many things in this patch and you don't the interactions  that catalyst will have with these soon to be buffed specs. Catalyst is literally getting nerfed indirectly because everything else is getting buffed. Wait till the patch hits. 

Edited September 18, 2022 by Nimbus Nomad.1237

[Exedore.6320]

Overall this seems good. ANet is identifying the problem areas and likely causes.

 

However, I don't like the removal of trade-offs. The trade-offs distinguished elite specs from their base and gave them a different feel and play style. Without trade-offs, how are elite specs not just "core, but better"?

[jdawgie.1835]

Overall I am happy with the changes - Its nice to see some thought put into warrior, that nerfs being done were not over dramatic, and it feels to me generally that these changes were made with a level head. This is the first time a patch as felt more "in the right direction" than not. 

[XxsdgxX.8109]

Hopefully after removing the quickness from Herald they will finally start fixing the bugs everywhere else, e.g., Hammer 2.
And resurrecting core skills/traits after killing them from when they used to overnerf things to death.

Edited September 19, 2022 by XxsdgxX.8109

[Stallic.2397]

5 hours ago, Exedore.6320 said:

Overall this seems good. ANet is identifying the problem areas and likely causes.

 

However, I don't like the removal of trade-offs. The trade-offs distinguished elite specs from their base and gave them a different feel and play style. Without trade-offs, how are elite specs not just "core, but better"?

 

Tradeoffs have slowly become irrelevant. Seems like Anet wants to move away from the free-to play approach by making all competitive modes require xpac buys.