What if elite specs were quest/achievement based rather than hero points?

[Ravenmoon.5318]

Has anyone put a thought into this? 

 

I was watching bunch of profession videos on YouTube to recommend to my friends according to their tastes. And since it's a youtube video and needs interesting content the authors went to great lengths to dig up lore for each elite specialization. I kinda liked that. 

 

Imagine, before unlocking Firebrand on your account you'd have like ... a scavenger hunt to read through some sacred tomes and at the end poof you unlock the specialization and you can dump hero points on it to unlock it fully. 

 

Or Bladesworn getting lessons from detective Rama

 

What do you think?

[Ultramex.1506]

I like to have quest that tell more about Elite specs, but it should never lock the Elite until you do it. See how people reacted when Anet want players to run EoD story on each class for ascended weapon collection?

If you want, it should be the opposite, quest step unlocked depend on how many hero points you spent on that Elite, like personal story.

Just dont prevent people from unlocking that Elite until they do the quest

Edited September 23, 2022 by Ultramex.1506

[Danikat.8537]

They tried something similar to this years ago - unlocking traits required doing various activities related to those traits - for example defeating certain bosses, completing story steps, finished hearts etc. It was probably the most unpopular change in the history of the game and was reverted a few months later.

It was also originally necessary to play a lot of HoT to unlock the first elite spec, because the core game hero challenges didn't give enough points and the HoT ones originally still gave 1 point each. Again players really didn't like that (some were quite angry) because for them the elite spec is the main appeal of an expansion and they didn't want to wait until they'd nearly completed it to use their new skills. The hero points were re-worked (and I think the number required was reduced) so you could unlock them a lot sooner, and the PoF and EoD ones were designed to unlock in a way which made them functional a lot sooner so you could start playing the new profession even if you hadn't fully trained it up.

However you can do this now, if you wish to. In PoF and EoD there's an NPC for each profession who will tell you about the new elite spec, giving you some of the lore and the theme behind it (there's other NPCs who use those specs and will talk about them too). I waited until I found the one for the untamed before unlocking the spec on my ranger, even though I already had the points, and then unlocked it gradually while roaming around the Echovald Wilds. Later on I went all the way back to Gendarren Fields to practice using the skills, and for me it was so I could test them out in simpler battles but for my character it was a bigger challenge - it's relatively easy to channel the untamed magic of the wilds in one of the biggest, oldest and most magically infused forests on Tyria, a lot harder to do it in a landscape that's been farmed for hundreds of years.

[The Boz.2038]

It is a great idea for your first character, but GW2 is *very* alt-friendly, and people will grow tired of doing story/metas/achievements for each character for each elite spec...

[Lottie.5370]

Sounds awful. Especially as someone with 40+ chars.

 

This type of thing already exists for the elite spec weapon collections.

[Kalavier.1097]

The closest I can think of would be include the elite spec npcs into the story, but with how EoD has these quests for arborstone and stuff, maybe that'd work better.

But I feel like it shouldn't be for unlocking the elite spec, but maybe themed gear for said spec? Do this quest, learn the lore and help out those elite spec members/orders, get a shiny skin for it.

[Veprovina.4876]

Yeah, people who exclusively do WvW wouldn't like that probably...

Besides, i like the option to just buy all the hero points i need from the WvW vendor.

 

I get that it would be more "immersive", but i don't want to do some long achievement train/story just to get my elite when i want to gear a new character for WvW.

[Ashen.2907]

I would stop buying expansions and would probably leave the game enitrely.

[kharmin.7683]

No.

[AliamRationem.5172]

The problem is the forced aspect of locking per-character objectives behind lore-based scavenger hunts.  As an optional side-story I think it could be cool, but nobody wants to be forced to do this for every single character they have.

 

[Gehenna.3625]

I remember this from GW1 or rather Prophecies when it came out. You have to do quests for skill trainers to gain individual skills. In pre-searing it's still that way. Post-searing it used to be this way as well and afaik you can still do it but with Factions came the way of just buying skills from a skill vendor essentially. You still had to cap the elite skills from specific bosses. But then came the next expansion, Nightfall and there you could bypass both with tomes that dropped as loot. So, tomes were done per class (e.g. you could have normal mesmer tomes and elite mesmer tomes). So even there, they progressed beyond that is what I'm saying.

So it's something people got used to with the hero points. You can bypass this in WvW. There you can go to the heroic notary and "cap" hero points from the mists. This will literally complete them on the maps.

But I digress...I get what you mean because I remember getting skills in the early days of GW1, but it's a long time ago and people get used to things. So there's no point in going back to such a system. 

[Ashen.2907]

Some dialog and lore introduced as part of an expansion's first story step would be fine.

[Veprovina.4876]

18 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

So it's something people got used to with the hero points. You can bypass this in WvW. There you can go to the heroic notary and "cap" hero points from the mists. This will literally complete them on the maps.

Probably the best thing they came up with in the game! 😄

[Mungo Zen.9364]

I do not think this idea is one that could be implemented currently in GW2 but I really do like the concept in general.

Hero Points are, generally, pretty boring.  We do have some interesting ones in HoT and PoF but by and large they are just clickables requiring no other interaction.  We also have so many of them that, it wasn't like we actually needed EoD HP to unlock the new eSpecs before even entering the new content.

The NPC's that talk about the EoD eSpecs were an okay idea, but pretty silly really.  Like, somewhere randomly on a map in EoD is an NPC that will tell you about the eSpec for your profession.  Yippee, that's super engaging and fun.......or not.....

I think the concept of having to run through a series of Quests that focus on the eSpecs/Profession/Class skills would be interesting.  Something simple like having an NPC give you a toolkit that changes your action bar to the 'default' skills/build for the eSpec so you can play with it and complete challenges.  I would suggest the same amount of time/work investment as doing 250 HP points would be fair too.  And nothing taxing, just things like 'use prof mechanic', 'Kill x mobs with eSpec weapon', 'use eSpec elite x times' and the like that is tied to some lore and story about the eSpec.

And for those WvW players who will feel left out, I think WvW shouldn't require unlocking of eSpecs via HP, but rather simply be available within the game mode.  At this point getting into a new eSpec is so trivial why bother asking for the HP anyway?  However, you could do a similar thing to my above suggestion in WvW by having similar NPC and Quests within WvW to 'teach and train' the new eSpecs if the company wanted to.

Again tho, I do not think that GW2 is in a position to add this type of feature as we all expect to insta-buy the next expansions eSpecs with HP we already farmed.  But maybe in another game, or a GW3....?  

Edited September 23, 2022 by Mungo Zen.9364

[Omega.6801]

19 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

No.

Yes. Join the dark side, Kharmin.

Also, no. Might seem like a good idea but no, it's actually not. Not because it's bad per se, but people would whine and complain that an expansion selling feature is locked behind story or quests or whatever. If you want to get a short impression on how the community would react, look up some turtle aquisition threads and the turtle isn't actually useful. Just imagine the whine if elites would work that way.

[Gehenna.3625]

19 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Probably the best thing they came up with in the game! 😄

That's what got me interested in playing WvW. That and the many transmutation charges you get there. Essentially I play WvW as a QoL update for my PvE experience lol. I do enjoy WvW though by now 😊

[kharmin.7683]

20 minutes ago, lokh.2695 said:

Yes. Join the dark side, Kharmin.
 

One of the few times I beat you to it.  🙂 I often agree with your "no" posts in many threads, probably for the same reason(s).

Now, where are the cookies?

[Gehenna.3625]

Just now, kharmin.7683 said:

One of the few times I beat you to it.  🙂 I often agree with your "no" posts in many threads, probably for the same reason(s).

Now, where are the cookies?

Darth Baras ate them all. (You need to have played SWTOR to get this reference).

[Veprovina.4876]

32 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

That's what got me interested in playing WvW. That and the many transmutation charges you get there. Essentially I play WvW as a QoL update for my PvE experience lol. I do enjoy WvW though by now 😊

I always wanted to do WvW but was never in any guilds that were on the same server lol.

So i didn't for the longest time.

But then i just jumped in and thought myself the ropes (with a help of a guildie that just explained a few things).

Then i roamed mostly and since i had like, 2 characters, the proofs of heroics kept on piling up.

 

Boy was i glad for them when i started making more characters.

Felt so good when you can just go to Armistice (or any borderlands), talk to the NPC guy and finish literall ALL hero points from every expansion! 😄

 

Not that i ever needed that much, but unlocking every HP just by buying is one of the few advantages WvW has over PvE.

And of course tons of transmutation charges i rarely use. 😄

 

Edited September 24, 2022 by Veprovina.4876

[DarcShriek.5829]

Anet tried something like this for a short time in core with grand master traits.  It didn't go over so well.

[Shivan.9438]

On 9/23/2022 at 2:56 AM, Ravenmoon.5318 said:

Imagine, before unlocking Firebrand on your account you'd have like ... a scavenger hunt to read through some sacred tomes and at the end poof you unlock the specialization and you can dump hero points on it to unlock it fully. 

Here's what would happen.

First, Anet would time gate it so hard that Christopher Lloyd would show up in the Delorean and stop you from making your post.

It would also require you to do nearly every single game mode and obtain an item from each one. Strikes, fractals, PvP or WvW. You would need some items from world boss kills. Oh, and you'd have to do a quest to make a boss that's specific to this whole string of events to spawn. And you'd need a group to kill it.

You'd also need to do a stupidly long and difficult jumping puzzle that would require paying an NPC to save your progress.

You'd have to complete a collection too, and Anet would hinge part of it it on catching some stupid fish and/or perform an emote in the middle of a boss fight at a specific time and location. Like dancing in an AOE attack. And if you mess it up, you have to wait for a few hours for the boss to come back around.

Part of it would require you reaching some nearly impossible location on the map - which you don't need the flying mount for, because you can technically do it with the Springer (It would just require a few days to peg the landings on 1 pixel sized platforms)

Then when you get all of your items, you'd need to level a profession to 400 (at least) and craft an item in the presence of some NPC that's going to be there; but be bugged out or not be there at all due to a time of day conflict with your real life time.

Then toss in a gold cost of 250 or something.


 

Edited September 24, 2022 by Shivan.9438

[Gehenna.3625]

9 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

I always wanted to do WvW but was never in any guilds that were on the same server lol.

So i didn't for the longest time.

But then i just jumped in and thought myself the ropes (with a help of a guildie that just explained a few things).

Then i roamed mostly and since i had like, 2 characters, the proofs of heroics kept on piling up.

 

Boy was i glad for them when i started making more characters.

Felt so good when you can just go to Armistice (or any borderlands), talk to the NPC guy and finish literall ALL hero points from every expansion! 😄

 

Not that i ever needed that much, but unlocking every HP just by buying is one of the few advantages WvW has over PvE.

And of course tons of transmutation charges i rarely use. 😄

 

Sounds very similar to my story 🙂 

 

[Khisanth.2948]

On 9/23/2022 at 4:19 AM, Danikat.8537 said:

It was also originally necessary to play a lot of HoT to unlock the first elite spec, because the core game hero challenges didn't give enough points and the HoT ones originally still gave 1 point each. Again players really didn't like that (some were quite angry) because for them the elite spec is the main appeal of an expansion and they didn't want to wait until they'd nearly completed it to use their new skills. The hero points were re-worked (and I think the number required was reduced) so you could unlock them a lot sooner, and the PoF and EoD ones were designed to unlock in a way which made them functional a lot sooner so you could start playing the new profession even if you hadn't fully trained it up.

HoT challenges have always given 10 points. What changed it that it used to require 400something points to fully unlock instead of 250. This is why HoT has so many left over points. Besides making things easier it also means that if you created a new character and cleared all(or most) content in order by the time you get to HoT you could start with a fully unlocked elite spec

 

On 9/23/2022 at 3:56 AM, Ravenmoon.5318 said:

Has anyone put a thought into this? 

 

I was watching bunch of profession videos on YouTube to recommend to my friends according to their tastes. And since it's a youtube video and needs interesting content the authors went to great lengths to dig up lore for each elite specialization. I kinda liked that. 

 

Imagine, before unlocking Firebrand on your account you'd have like ... a scavenger hunt to read through some sacred tomes and at the end poof you unlock the specialization and you can dump hero points on it to unlock it fully. 

 

Or Bladesworn getting lessons from detective Rama

 

What do you think?

A better approach would be creating something similar to https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Bonus_Mission_Pack. That would also give a lot more room to tell a story. It also avoids causing problems for all the people who have no interest in the lore.

People who want the lore have it

People who don't care and skip it.

People who wants to be spoonfed lore ...I don't care about these people.

[Drakz.7051]

They could have it so as you unlock more of the skills an npc somewhere will give you more and more info on the specs origins, famous users etc.

[Knighthonor.4061]

On 9/23/2022 at 10:44 AM, kharmin.7683 said:

No.

To add to the theme and thread here. I searched the forum for my response before posting.

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/search/?&q=No&type=cms_pages_pageitem&search_and_or=or