Guild Wars 2 Balance Philosophy

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Slow the game down, especially in PvE. Quickness just turns it Quake right now.

 

Add a better combat log (in particular, collapse duplicate entries like DOTs) that is always visible above the chat box instead of being a tab you have to switch to within it, like 99% of other games with a combat log. I want to see whats going on in real time without interrupting my chat or being spammed.

 

Turn off effects for culled players entirely. I shouldn't see or hear anything from outside my party/subgroup. Stop "Effect LoD" setting from removing important combo field/reflect/etc. visuals from my group.

 

Don't cull bosses, important NPCs and vital tells on any graphical setting.

 

Fix the boon bar so that its not full of 10,000 other effects that aren't related to combat. At the very least, split them into rows and put the boons and conditions in fixed positions, not moving around.

 

Then we'll talk about class balance, when players can actually see whats going on. Right now all balance is being done on the false assumption that the majority of players can actually navigate the chaotic battlefield, which is why low intensity (LI) builds are becoming more and more popular.

 

Passive damage and defenses allows you to ignore all the garbage! And it is! 100%! Trash!

Edited November 5, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[TupTup.2438]

I have been a guild wars 2 player since the first release of chronomancer, i have see alot of good changes and bad, a good change that i had seen was that the warrior had been fixed due to the absolute abuse of stuns, down and grounded status effects. I dont know whos bright idea it was to include 3 forms of a stun into the Mace of a warrior and to braught it back, but this is a mistake. It breaks PVP. To any single person going against a warrior once you have had your ability blocked will then hit you one time, because all the need is the one time! They will follow up with another stun, and then grounded. How in anyone's mind is this ok, you are guaranteeing that the person they have smacked one time isn't getting back up, they have no chance to respond, no chance to leave, no chance to escape. It has broken the PVP against warrior mace builds. it's a completely one sided fight against any class that gets caught in the 3 stuns that this class has. Fix the warrior, the team has ruined by giving it every advantage in the book.

[Dante.1508]

I'll believe it when i see it.

[Styopa.2538]

On 10/29/2022 at 11:01 AM, Flapjackson.1596 said:

I wanted to go deeper on the "Minimize Bad Choices" section.

 

If that were true, the simplest first step is to eliminate what, about 3/4 of the runes and signets from the game?

I mean, I LIKE the Rune of the Privateer, I wish it was optimal in SOME build, SOMEwhere.  But it's not.  I'd love them to take the high-effort road and give people an incentive for finding a use for some of the bizarre ones out there.

 

If they actually want to avoid people making bad choices, it's pretty much down to offering zerker, viper, their slightly-tougher, slightly-less-dps variants.  And then some oddballs for capping crit or boon duration or something.

[Infusion.7149]

5 minutes ago, Styopa.2538 said:

If that were true, the simplest first step is to eliminate what, about 3/4 of the runes and signets from the game?

I mean, I LIKE the Rune of the Privateer, I wish it was optimal in SOME build, SOMEwhere.  But it's not.  I'd love them to take the high-effort road and give people an incentive for finding a use for some of the bizarre ones out there.

 

If they actually want to avoid people making bad choices, it's pretty much down to offering zerker, viper, their slightly-tougher, slightly-less-dps variants.  And then some oddballs for capping crit or boon duration or something.

You're forgetting WVW exists and the post is mainly talking about skills, traits, and profession-based balanced and not gearing.

In addition, it would be better if scholar runes damage bonus were nerfed a bit instead of expecting Arenanet to remove 3/4 of the runes and maybe rune of strength and such can have a restored damage bonus. Every rune without a 225 ferocity bonus already is starting from 15% less critical hit damage. That is why the only runes really competing are Eagle (which has no power bonus; can be used in WVW by specs that don't crit cap with 20% critical chance fury)  and Thief rune (which requires flanking which is "skill expression"). Golemancer runes were seldom used due to the golem being a giveaway for stealth pushes IIRC and most WVW players aren't going to have a pile of dungeon tokens to use at will. The margin to Ogre rune , Dragonhunter rune on DH, Ranger rune (for any power mech or power untamed), or Deadeye rune would be greatly reduced with a simple change to Scholar rune.


 

[Jacks.1703]

Regarding the speed of the Guardian's Mace 1 skill, it is very slow. It might be interesting to balance it with a speed boost, like 1/4, 1/4, and 1/2 per second.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Jacks.1703

[Chichimec.9364]

"At the same time, we want to ensure that there are builds for every profession that require less mastery to be effective. These builds should allow players to succeed in parties and clear content, while still having room for them to improve their mastery over the combat system and increase their effectiveness."

@Cal Cohen.2358 I just wanted to remind you that not everyone wants to "git gud". Given my age (73) and my health issues (I won't bore you with the list) there are hard physical limits on how "gud" I could "git" even if I wanted to. And at this point in my life, I don't particularly want to. I don't play video games to demonstrate my "prowess" to myself or anyone else. I play to relax and have fun.

Now, let's be clear, I am not asking that the game be built around me and other folks like me. The broader the audience this game appeals to, the better it is for all of us. One of the things I love about GW2 is that there is room for everyone here from the most hard core players to the most casual ones. You did something with the Mechanist though, that was a game changer for me.  Let's say that the best players are in the 7-10 range and that the average players are around 5. I'm at 2, sometimes 3. The improved Mechanist though, significantly changed that for me. I didn't suddenly become a superhero player at level 10, but, with my mech, I could now play at level 5. Story episodes that had been long, excruciatingly tedious battles on my LI build doing 2,000 - 3,000 DPS suddenly became fast paced fun when I started doing 8,000 - 15,000 DPS with my Mechanist.

Please don't take that away from me and other folks like me because of all the mech hate out there. Yes, 7-10 level players should be able to do more and get more rewards. Yes, lower level players should have room to improve if they want to. Just please remember, not everyone can, or wants to, "git gud". A LI build that actually packs a punch really was a game changer for me. Rather than nerfing the Mech back into oblivion, I hope you give other professions a similar build - one that is easy to play but still able to do damage. Complex, more powerful builds, for those who want those. Simpler, easier to play builds that still have some power for those who prefer that. Please keep room for all of us in this game.
 

[Ruisenior.6342]

I thought Anet wanted to get rid completly of the trinity by making every character capable of provide the same tools (heals,boons,damage,etc) but in different ways, but here they are remarking 3 different roles

[Mungo Zen.9364]

@Cal Cohen.2358

Your Balance Philosophy doesn't appear to be in-line with the changes you are making in the Nov 29th patch.

Over the past 12 months you have delivered a variety of hacks and band-aids in the name of Balance that have continued to prove that your team doesn't know what they are balancing.  The Nov 29th update continues this trend.

And now we wait until what, late January or February for the next Balance Patch?  It hasn't been announced yet but, we know you aren't working over the holiday season.  So maybe 3-4 months from now we see another patch that may or may not address some of the issues that have existed for months or years (not including whatever you have broken in Nov 29th patch).

How long is it okay for you to allow professions to have bad builds before you care to fix them?

Your team should have never published this Balance Philosophy and just kept it hidden.  You have given us a document we can point at and say "you aren't doing what you said".  And here I am, doing just that.

[Fueki.4753]

If you really balance around some "power budget", instead of that talk just being fluff, then Warrior still has over half of its budget unused.

Why don't you raise the damage of Warrior's Rifle up to (or at the very least close to) the levels of Ranger's Longbow?

Would a small (10% to 15%) increase in the damage of Warrior's Daggers hurt too much?

Warrior already has little utility, so you could at least increase the damage of some of its underperforming weapons.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Jianyu.7065]

Sounds good here, but then the new thread...uh..

👀

What?...

[Mik.3401]

It’s heartbreaking to see because they show they are trying. However, things like enabling easy to play builds for each class and still dwelling on trade-off holds the game in the same spot forever essentially. Especially given the fact strong classes keep receiving lots of buffs and the more niche ones are getting not as much.

perfeft balance is utopia but trying to achieve it is good. But not with this philosophy

[prototypedragon.1406]

World of warcraft classic  seems like it has more promise compared to that of which seems to be the future of guild Wars2.

[Nabbut.7480]

Anet PvP balancing philosophy:

• Enable making a good-working PvP build
• Listen to massive whine from those pwned by it
• Destroy it entirely
• Listen to massive whine from those using it
• Maybe give some of it back

Edited November 22, 2022 by SpiderZ.9146

[Dr Meta.3158]

On 10/29/2022 at 2:31 PM, Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

So... Im guessing complaints from thief players are commonly ignored during player feedback incorporation. Cuz the common pain point still hasn't been touched.

 

Also please, PLEASE do not force roles. The game was inteneded to avoid these things, allowing a player to do a little bit of everything defined within their class mechanics. As a thief yes Im a single target damage dealer. But I am tired kf being forced into a +1 fighter because you decided Im not allowed to effectively duel anyone without being eons above them in skill.

 

Additionally, you remove the players abilities to adapt dynamically without being forced to completely change characters. Remember that whole thing about having no healers? You forced them against player choice. Reducing them i to a stack fest where you're required to wait for specific professions.

They would have to redesign thief in a manner in which a build capable of dueling is not also capable of outspeeding everyone else by a long shot. The Flash is the most broken hero in DC for a reason.

[Dr Meta.3158]

On 11/9/2022 at 5:03 PM, Chichimec.9364 said:

"At the same time, we want to ensure that there are builds for every profession that require less mastery to be effective. These builds should allow players to succeed in parties and clear content, while still having room for them to improve their mastery over the combat system and increase their effectiveness."

@Cal Cohen.2358 I just wanted to remind you that not everyone wants to "git gud". Given my age (73) and my health issues (I won't bore you with the list) there are hard physical limits on how "gud" I could "git" even if I wanted to. And at this point in my life, I don't particularly want to. I don't play video games to demonstrate my "prowess" to myself or anyone else. I play to relax and have fun.

Now, let's be clear, I am not asking that the game be built around me and other folks like me. The broader the audience this game appeals to, the better it is for all of us. One of the things I love about GW2 is that there is room for everyone here from the most hard core players to the most casual ones. You did something with the Mechanist though, that was a game changer for me.  Let's say that the best players are in the 7-10 range and that the average players are around 5. I'm at 2, sometimes 3. The improved Mechanist though, significantly changed that for me. I didn't suddenly become a superhero player at level 10, but, with my mech, I could now play at level 5. Story episodes that had been long, excruciatingly tedious battles on my LI build doing 2,000 - 3,000 DPS suddenly became fast paced fun when I started doing 8,000 - 15,000 DPS with my Mechanist.

Please don't take that away from me and other folks like me because of all the mech hate out there. Yes, 7-10 level players should be able to do more and get more rewards. Yes, lower level players should have room to improve if they want to. Just please remember, not everyone can, or wants to, "git gud". A LI build that actually packs a punch really was a game changer for me. Rather than nerfing the Mech back into oblivion, I hope you give other professions a similar build - one that is easy to play but still able to do damage. Complex, more powerful builds, for those who want those. Simpler, easier to play builds that still have some power for those who prefer that. Please keep room for all of us in this game.
 

My dad had the same conventions when he became too old to play basketball. Sometimes you just have to respect the limits of your body and adapt. He plays golf now.

[JTGuevara.9018]

On 11/17/2022 at 8:06 PM, Mik.3401 said:

It’s heartbreaking to see because they show they are trying. However, things like enabling easy to play builds for each class and still dwelling on trade-off holds the game in the same spot forever essentially. Especially given the fact strong classes keep receiving lots of buffs and the more niche ones are getting not as much.

perfeft balance is utopia but trying to achieve it is good. But not with this philosophy

Unfortunately, gw2's design pales in comparison to gw1. A game without dedicated roles always devolves to this, where everybody does everything. However, when it devolves to that, all that matters is which classes do it quicker and more efficiently.

[Sweetbread.3678]

19 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

Unfortunately, gw2's design pales in comparison to gw1. A game without dedicated roles always devolves to this, where everybody does everything. However, when it devolves to that, all that matters is which classes do it quicker and more efficiently.

Man, that game was really THE gold standard for mmo style pvp, nothing else has even come close imo.

I love GW2 for what it is, the combat system works great for overworld and wvw, but small scale pvp and pve definitely payed the price for it. It's always been such a shame to have GW1s intricate skill interactions flattened down into incredibly basic boon / condition spam with a bunch of showy, but gimmicky and shallow class mechanics like clones or whatever thrown on top of it to create the illusion of depth.

[Moradorin.6217]

On 11/22/2022 at 12:31 PM, SpiderZ.9146 said:

Anet PvP balancing philosophy:

• Enable making a good-working PvP build
• Listen to massive whine from those pwned by it
• Destroy it entirely
• Listen to massive whine from those using it
• Maybe give some of it back

Still waiting for the Trade-offs rollback/removal as Mirage (they did all the others and ignored mirage) *whistling eyeroll* Would love to get that dodge back in pvp/wvw...

[Mik.3401]

On 11/25/2022 at 11:49 PM, JTGuevara.9018 said:

Unfortunately, gw2's design pales in comparison to gw1. A game without dedicated roles always devolves to this, where everybody does everything. However, when it devolves to that, all that matters is which classes do it quicker and more efficiently.

Exactly, the very concept of gw2 classes is disabling the game from being good. And the balance nightmare will only get worse with each next set of especs. They really did f themselves hard with it.

The dual class system in gw1 is Just so exciting even now after like 20 years

Edited December 2, 2022 by Mik.3401

[Moradorin.6217]

59 minutes ago, Mik.3401 said:

Exactly, the very concept of gw2 classes is disabling the game from being good. And the balance nightmare will only get worse with each next set of especs. They really did f themselves hard with it.

The dual class system in gw1 is Just so exciting even now after like 20 years

I dont think that sounds any better. From what I recall in gw1 is certain class combinations (builds+specs) still dominated, especially when you get down to specific uses. Like best to solo CMs, champs, best pvp 1 v 1, best support per mode/use. Gw1 had specific best in show just like gw2.I think you are looking at gw1 through a rose tinted lens.

[Mik.3401]

8 minutes ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

I dont think that sounds any better. From what I recall in gw1 is certain class combinations (builds+specs) still dominated, especially when you get down to specific uses. Like best to solo CMs, champs, best pvp 1 v 1, best support per mode/use. Gw1 had specific best in show just like gw2.I think you are looking at gw1 through a rose tinted lens.

That could be a part of it, however I meant it was exciting first of all, of course it had its problems. The gw2 system is boring and broken on the other hand in comparison. 

It was just easier to tolerate it perphaps because GW1 is harder, especially before heroes were introduced.

[Fueki.4753]

24 minutes ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

I dont think that sounds any better. From what I recall in gw1 is certain class combinations (builds+specs) still dominated, especially when you get down to specific uses. Like best to solo CMs, champs, best pvp 1 v 1, best support per mode/use. Gw1 had specific best in show just like gw2.I think you are looking at gw1 through a rose tinted lens.

Such "issues" occur in all games that have stats though. WoW and even F14 (which utterly lacks job customization) have classes/jobs that simply are better than others.

Even in games that primarily are single player you have things that simply outclass other things, as long as there are stats linked to your equipment and abilities.

GW1's dual profession system is more interesting than Elite specializations, simply because the theoretical combinations are more in number. Not every combination may be is viable for the top end cookie cutting, but neither is every profession in GW2.

[Moradorin.6217]

4 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Such "issues" occur in all games that have stats though. WoW and even F14 (which utterly lacks job customization) have classes/jobs that simply are better than others.

Even in games that primarily are single player you have things that simply outclass other things, as long as there are stats linked to your equipment and abilities.

GW1's dual profession system is more interesting than Elite specializations, simply because the theoretical combinations are more in number. Not every combination may be is viable for the top end cookie cutting, but neither is every profession in GW2.

Yea I hear ya. I did like the dual class system too. I was just thinking Im not sure it solves the best In show type issues.

[Pooh.6897]

Seeing how important quickness and alacrity are, i'd much rather have these two boons replaced by something else and make it so that all weapons get an increase in attack speed and all skills a decrease in cooldown. Especially in instanced PvE, the game has too much focus on keeping up these two boons. Nothing in the game should have the amount of influence on end-results that Quickness and Alacrity have. They're mandatory now, so much so that balancing started to pivot around these two boons. I'd much rather have it so that gameplay revolves around cleverly using existing mechanics than to spam 2 boons and win.

Edited December 3, 2022 by Darth Pooh.5638