February 14 Balance Update Preview

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

Necro/Reaper player here.

I see someone has been reading the Necromancer forum. Changes are nice and make nearly useless skills somewhat useful. Not sure if this will make me change my build but we'll see.

HOWEVER!

in the past days, I made a new character to play the storyline from the beginning and with all the balance changes, I thought I could include dungeons since those should be pretty much soloable now, even with core necro and to my surprised, they are, EXCEPT Honor of the Waves.

why? Well, unlike the rest of the dungeons, the champions and some groups deal massive damage! And while I still defeated those (after dying many times which didn't happen in any other dungeon), the last boss is just impossible. It deals way too much damage too darn fast and even with Marauder gear and full Blood/Death magic Minionmancer, both my health and Shroud got depleted almost immediately.

now, those are group content, ok I get it, but this only pointed out the real problem with Necro/Reaper. WE HAVE NO REAL SUSTAIN! Necro is weak but it has massive sustain, sure, BUT this only apply to easy content. Anything challenging and that sustain mean kitten. And Reaper damage is ok but the sustain is null. 30 stacks of Carapace + Protection + "Rise" +27k HP + Shroud + Life stealing did absolutely nothing!

so, can you check that in future patches? Our dps is not high enough to justify having zero sustain.

[pallas.8150]

I like these changes, personally.

[Doggie.3184]

Give. Thief. AoEs.

Both damage and support AoE. Stop leaving Thief out while everyone else gets better versions of our skills. Give us at least one viable WvW zerg build so we can finally play with the bois. Make Dual Pistols and Rifle not the same exact weaponset as it is now. Make Dual Pistols fun and unique. Give Thief Pistols Ricochet/bouncing bullets back, at least on it's Auto Attack and Stealth Attack so we can fight people with pets and enemies surrounded by enemies. Pierce trait is bad and it isn't on a traitline that is viable on all builds such as condi.

Give Thief Scepter AoE like everyone else's Scepter. Measured Shot is a highly frustrating skill to use in all content because of the forced teleporting. Wasting all our Wells for Alacrity kills build diversity and reactive gameplay. Give us a better reason to use our Shroud instead of it being a filler for our Ini to regen and murdering it all on a heal. Why does Ele and Druid get ally target healing with AoE healing attached to it but we don't?

Specters have shadows. I can look down and see my shadow. So why can't I use Siphon on myself when I don't have a target selected? Why doesn't Siphon on allies trigger Thrill of the Crime? Well of Silence CD should be a lot lower if you're going to delete tons of cc and (traited) Torment damage from it and we're not even going to get to use these Wells for their intented use still if Alacrity spam is required. Move Alacrity to Siphon (and allow self-Siphon). Providing boons through our F1 has been a very long running theme and so has Swiftness on Steal without a target.

And a really good QoL bonus would be: Let me use Death Blossom and Weakening Charge while WASDing instead of it locking movement to a forced Jump and buggy staff lunge.

(also; Specter doesn't work underwater)

Edited February 4, 2023 by Doggie.3184

[Nihil.9817]

epic dagger upgrade will be using shouts and dagger for the foreseeable future, as well as comboed with signet of spite and locust very epic necro changes i love this patch its hecking epic

[Pseudonymous.2107]

2 hours ago, Jake.7526 said:

The burning speed and earthen rush changes on dagger main hand ele are so cursed for tempest. Because on tempest its not used for dps its used to move away from enemies or evade..

For WvW roaming in any dagger build this is going to be so aweful. This is such a depressing change. I really hope they reconsider. Staff changes are great though.

[Gehenna.3625]

I dunno. I play a DH in WvW and I'm not sure it makes my life very much better if at all. What I do know is that I have to throw my build around if I want to take advantage of these changes and I'm not sure if I'll be happy with that. It just feels like DH is a bit of a spec that you have to make work more than the others.

 

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Gehenna.3625

[Ithamir.5928]

I don't like the changes to the manipulation and glamour traits. Should've kept manipulation trait as it is and the new glamour trait to give aegis.
This way when going inspi you could have an aegis line.
And keeping the superspeed in manipulation keeps the speedy build for skipping in PvE.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

These are not adequate nerfs for Catalyst in the competitive modes.

Furthermore, the changes to Ranger will hurt it, not help it. Don't mess with the Wilderness Survival Trait.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Tails.9372]

23 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

We do want rifle to be a viable pick, and we're bumping up the damage a bit more.

Except the damage of the rifle is already fine as it is rn. The main issue with Rifle on DE is how insufferable it is to play tanks to the "forced jumping around", if you really want to give people more of an incentive to play Rifle change Silent Scopes "Enter stealth when you dodge roll with a rifle equipped." to "Unlock Death's Judgment if you have the maximum number of malice stacks while you have a rifle equipped".

[inazuma.7021]

Mechanical Genius change is welcome. I'm too focused about staying in range of my mech, which tends to move all over the place in battle. This should help make it more fun!

[Loke.1429]

23 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Weaver

So much PVE on weaver skills! 😕 Missing needed 10% damage buff and mechanical buffs to staff attacks in wvw. Mainly missing auto attacks when ppl move, slow auto attacks, slow other attacks and slow mechanics, so blocks and daze etc. is too good against it. Little reward in terms of damage for the mechanical skill needed, thanks for previous meteor nerf and a long line of unneccessary nerfs. Buff lavafont back? Sheesh.
Buff plasma blast and pile driver in wvw, projectile speed is bad on the first and damage+mechanics are bad for the 2nd.

I guess gust works like a projectile and can be reflected still, when I read it i hope it was ground targeted circle aoe. Also ele traits needed more attention imo.



 Atleast this wasnt another nerf so it could be worse 🙂 Upside for me in the only mode/builds I play, tryhard diemuch ticklefish coward wvw power damage staff weaver over-nerfed gameplay:

Defensives:
(Meh change, but better than nothing, should be instant and do some power damage in wvw, still is a pure "misclick" on power build)
Flame Burst - inflicts blind not just burning

(Buff was nice to have but less important than other needed buffs not being made, which could be tied to the same skill really. Immobilize, cripple and chilled removal is much more needed defensively on the staff, daze immunity would also help greatly)
Burning Retreat 18s cooldown

(Also makes it ok if you dont manage to hit enemies with the circle, but really is a very small change in terms of balance)
Frozen Ground - applies frost aura

(Excellent change! The skill didnt feel worthwhile as is)
Windborne Speed - applies superspeed

(Skill I only used for experimental builds, but very nice change for variety, will become a more solid pick)
Cleansing Fire - ammo skill , grants personal might per condition (ammo cooldown 25)

Offensives:
.... 😞 Tbh. told myself I'd stop without any offensive buff. When I hit a thief for 500 every attack I land and he hits me for 2,5k every attack with dazedaze so fun gameplay...

You promised to read this Roy 😄 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Loke.1429

[Moradorin.6217]

@Cal Cohen.2358

Qustiontion: You are not feeling competent enough to try and give Mirage its 2nd dodge back in pvp/wvw or at least address it in the balance patch unlike every other spec?

 

Im super curious and cannot help but assume its a lack of competence on behalf of the balance team and/or its management. Please enlighten us all.

[Alcatraznc.3869]

As far as Engineer goes, at least they are looking at pistol after what ? 8 years ? The changes are good although it is still lacking but just for that I'll give them some slack.

 

The Scrapper changes are....whatever. Same for the Mechanist, just some QoL change.

 

 

[BATMAN.6794]

I understand the whole counterplay with Mantras but it feelsbadman going from insta cast to now I gotta wait, straight up a bad move, 10/10 would not recommend. Don't do it, there are way better things you could have done with the time you put into this, such a waste.

[Loke.1429]

49 minutes ago, Xanfell.3475 said:

Why remove ele cantrip CD trait but didn't lower cantrip skills CD like all other professions weapon skills and utility? 

Like survival skills of rangers for example. 

ouch

[Loke.1429]

forgot to say, shadow meld nerf is perfect

[QUEEN CANDY.8379]

I am a newbie here and I'm curious as to why the Engineer's turrets haven't been changed in years??! Is it just me??

 

Happy for some of the changes to Ele, particularly the Alacrity. 

 

The mantras change for Mesmer seems odd to me but since my mesmer is under level 10 I haven't played it enough. 

 

 

[ZolracAtrox.2908]

About the stronger PvP classes balance:

• I feel that Cata nerfs are not enough; dragon tooth needed a more rework than a number nerf (and fixing its bug as well); aside scepter (that dg tooth was the only skill that I feel that needed a nerf). At the same time; those staff improvements are delicious. And welp. Support Tempest still need a little nerf too.
• We still need some (lots) PvP Holo nerfs  too (and asap); but thanks for those scrapper buffs.
• Those Spellbreaker changes... I still dunno how it is gonna be, let's see how is gonna be after the update. 

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by ZolracAtrox.2908

[Anonynja.3172]

On 2/2/2023 at 7:19 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Imperial Impact: The attack from this trait no longer inflicts chill in PvP and WvW. Reduced power coefficient from 0.625 to 0.5 in PvP only.

Rev main here. That's harsh. Chilled is most of the value of this dodge! I can't imagine picking Vassals of the Empire just for the 1s boon extension. This also kills off Condi Vindicator. Abyssal Chill was the only synergy you had with the Corruption traitline. And it wasn't even a competitive option.

Renegade buffs are appreciated. They addressed some of the barely-touched traits. The core issue is spirits, though. They're way too easy to render useless. Knockback, cleave, interrupt, stun, blind... I think they should just be wells. Or middle ground, make them tankier and immune to CC.

I love the warrior mace buff though, nice detail.

Reaper shout buffs ❤️

Elementalist changes look spot on. Catalyst got pretty much exactly what was needed. Weaver buffs in PvE were deserved, that spec has a high skill floor. 

Mantras I expect some future back-and-forth on. The awkwardness of needing to precast won't go away. I agree with the intent here though.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Anonynja.3172

[FalsePromises.6398]

Just wanted to give my two cents... I really like the reaper shout update. I think it's really cool to add that new functionality to them and to give you benefits for being in "ooh I'm gonna getcha!" range and bonus benefits for being in "YOU CANNOT ESCAPE" range. I do think that needs to be approached a bit more realistically though: melee radius is tiny, 130 radius. When you factor in your own hitbox, most enemies might be brushing on the outside of that range. If we assume we take the melee radius from Gravedigger, which is 180, then it's a little more reasonable but still a tad small, hard to realistically get multiple targets inside of (I mean, try doing that with elementalist's Lava Font when it doesn't already have you inside of it), not to mention fear could easily bungle it up. 

I think a good radius for the bonus effects would be 240: it's the size of an untraited guardian symbol, which is sizable enough you can get multiple enemies inside of it easily but also not so large as to be oppressive coverage Of course I wouldn't oppose 300, but any larger like 360 radius and it can become quite oppressive (just think renegade spirits) and start to overshadow the original effects since it'll be too easy to get enemies in that range. Either way, I think it'll make for a great design to have shouts motivating you to push in close in normal form. 

[ascii.1369]

So, I guess I'll give my two cents in this topic aswell. I will comment on PvP and WvW roaming, since that's what I play for the most part.

 

Master of Manipulation and Manipulatoin Skills

I don't think losing the superspeed makes any meaningfull difference in PvP/WvW and giving the chaos traitline more survivability is nice. Especially combined with the lower cd on mirror it could be pretty ok. Healing per minute is good and reflect + aegis on every heal/blink seems like a decent option. The only complaint I have here is that Mesmer is not very mobile anyway so a cd reduction to blink would be helpfull. As it stands pretty much everyone but Necromancer outruns Mesmer in WvW romaing pretty easily.

 

Mantras

Please for the love of god, don't punish Mesmers because there is something wrong with Guardian mantras. Mesmer mantras will once more feel terrible to play. While this designe might sound interesting on paper, in practice (at least in PvP/WvW) it just feels super clunky to play.

And you reintroduce the additional problem of having to balance the initial effect vs the charges. Given the balance track record of the past (inlcuding the recent past) I don't think it's a wise decision to make your job harder on purpose. Mantras are fun, just leave them alone.

 

Temporal Enchanter and Glamour Skills

Glamour skills don't really see much use in PvP and WvW roaming at the momet. I don't think this patch will change that, so I don't have much of an oppinion on it. What I will say, for WvW zergs this might indeed be a usefull change. I can certainly see how a nullfield or reflect bubble would be more valuable if it also gave allies superspeed + resistance.

 

Chrono changes

Nothing particularly meaningfull for PvP/WvW. Not a new issue but I'm gonna point it out again. Chrono wells having their power in the last pulse is at the very least annoying in PvE and terrible design for PvP/WvW. Instead of ruining mantras again, rather take a look at that.

[Elrey.5472]

2 hours ago, Jake.7526 said:

The burning speed and earthen rush changes on dagger main hand ele are so cursed for tempest. Because on tempest its not used for dps its used to move away from enemies or evade..

Agreed. This is going to be a pain in the kitten now, if it stops on enemies...

[Sereath.1428]

Certified bruh moment

What are those Ele changes??? What is even this patch

That's it for the S+ tier classes? (Cata and SB)
Vindicator, a spec a tier or two below them, received much harsher nerfs.

Do PvP devs play anything else other than Ele and Guardian...

Edited February 4, 2023 by XxsdgxX.8109

[bluberblasen.9684]

Lightning Flash: Reduced cooldown from 40 seconds to 20 seconds in PvE only.

 

Why? Why can't you give it 20 seconds in wvw too?  Why.. Tell me!

It's only 900 range.. Not 1200 like mecha and mesmer...

It no longer breaks stun...

It no longer deals damage...

Just buff it already..

 

 

 

[Terrorhuz.4695]

Mesmer here:

- Heavily disagree with master of manipulation: 7s more cooldown on my only mobility skill for....aegis? Superspeed was just perfect, that's it. We don't want to have too much superspeed because of the glamour trait? Ok, let's mix it up with something else. Manipulations give 3s swiftness, for example. Maybe a way to apply revealed, the trait was about 2 things: utility and blink, it lost both. Definitely hating that.
- Well of Action\Well of Senility won't cut. Those skills are bad, period; you want to change them, you need to look at what's pulsed 3 times, not what happens on a final pulse which never lands anyway. Also, superspeed on a well is STILL a stupid decision. You're expecting a player to not move for 3 seconds and then they can move; the only mobility skill in the game that prevents movement. Need to go back to the drawing board with these ones.
- Keep an eye out on virtuoso: now that the unblockable trait has been fixed, it has extreme defensive potential and the unblockable ranged damage to be scary.
- So-and-so feels about mirror images: it's really strong with chronomancer. Don't think it needed a nerf, but not a buff either.
- GOOD WORK ON THE MANTRAS. Saying otherwise is delusional
- GOOD WORK WITH THE GLAMOURS

Edited February 4, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695