Gyala Delves Feedback [Merged]

[SandraSolace.7682]

As a returned player, who played from start then not play for years, gotten my butt kicked by raptors opon return (HoT), oops. I so far have loved most of the "new stuff".

This chapter came free and yes got map completion, did the story, done the meta (committed, but only once as of writing) and no clue what I was doing.  I will learn in time.

Map is awesome, like many I have discovered since returning. But mostly, I am just really glad, that a game this old, is still giving us new things! Yeah, some of it could have been left out but I feel lucky to play this game every day and can still just do what I want to do. So in my book, it's all good!

Edited March 3, 2023 by SandraSolace.7682
Can't say the other word for butt

[Bast.7253]

I think the game plan moving forward is the other half of this map before/during summer. 
 

A strike mission in the fall in between other festivals and maybe some qol changes.

 

Then perhaps winter/early 2023 will be the mini expansion. I’m guessing the two maps, drowned Kaening and the snow palace area Togu’s estate? Will be the mini expansion maps.

 

They will use this time plus that mini expansion to gauge the success of this business model to determine if they want to keep it or if it’s profitable enough. 
 

This way they can keep the story smaller scoped, in Cantha, and gauge metrics for their new model before committing to some larger story. 
 

Technically this would normally be a living world season 4 size patch x 2 but I think that’s the goal of the new model. No elite specs next mini expansion but MAYBE a new mastery.

 

Likely dealing with demons/vampire ministry and we may see one minister introduced in the next half of the map. Perhaps Chul Moo will tie into this plot and be an enemy in disguise, or he’ll be killed off.

 

That’s my best guess and it would likely be the most efficient way to push out a rapid mini expansion to test the waters as they likely already have those two maps at least semi fleshed out or a game plan for them.

 

One thing that bothers me about their roadmap and reasoning is insisting they want to use the resources gained from committing to smaller expansions and living world to update existing systems and other game modes, but then give no insight into what that might look like or what systems they hope to target.

 

Or course I’m sure they’re not wanting to broadcast specifics given players will say something was “promised” but if they make it clear that the items they hope to tackle are a wishlist of sorts, it’s really on the players. But if they do fail at updating some of those systems communicating why, the technical challenges, etc, would be a great way to alleviate concerns.

 

I just want to advise that this is likely the type of content they’re hoping to produce for interim and I wouldn’t expect the mini expansions to be on the same par with EoD which is imo lower quality than PoF in terms of features and significantly less content rich than HoT. 
 

If you don’t like this content then speak with your wallet, not complaints on a heavily censored forum filled with senseless emojis. If you enjoy this content, then congrats and keep enjoying it.

 

That being said addressing specific concerns in terms of gameplay, map design, etc is still a good thing to voice. Just saying, “this sucks no masteries patch is weak” isn’t going to give them data to iterate in for future releases.

[Boogiepop Void.6473]

The material sink key vendors are downright predatory.

[Izzy.2951]

My feedback:

- Beatufil map

- Better FPS performance (i guess its smaller and less assets)

- Nice Music

- Anticlimatic metaevent, specially the last fight. Was kinda dull and boring.

- No new interesting mechanics in the meta.

- Story was short and we are missing about Onis, Kanaxai, the 3 luxon queens.

And this is not specific about the map, but what about kurzicks, Urgoz, Kanaxai. Are we gonna see all the locations of Cantha in the future with their own enemys and stuff? @Bobby Stein.3612@Josh Davis.7865. I wish gw2 invested more money into the game, also in raids, spvp new modes, story quest systemt new race (could align with a new start for all new players rather than the outdated core tyria) etcetc...

Edited March 3, 2023 by Izzy.2951

[Tails.9372]

2 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

It means that those not engaging don't care to do so.

Which is at least partly on A-Net as they almost always do an absolutely horrendous job at incentivising people to play / keep playing into the mechanics.

Even if the only goal they have with the content is to familiarize people with mechanic XY A-Net will 9 times out of 10 implement it in a way where failing the correct execution of said mechanic is overly punishing instead of properly rewarding the correct execution to make people want to engage with it.

Then there are usually also some scaling issues disincentivizing the few who actually try and thanks to some horrendous game design choices we even have some weapon sets that actively punish you for using your CC skills.

[Bast.7253]

41 minutes ago, Izzy.2951 said:

My feedback:

- Beatufil map

- Better FPS performance (i guess its smaller and less assets)

- Nice Music

- Anticlimatic metaevent, specially the last fight. Was kinda dull and boring.

- No new interesting mechanics in the meta.

- Story was short and we are missing about Onis, Kanaxai, the 3 luxon queens.

And this is not specific about the map, but what about kurzicks, Urgoz, Kanaxai. Are we gonna see all the locations of Cantha in the future with their own enemys and stuff? @Bobby Stein.3612@Josh Davis.7865. I wish gw2 invested more money into the game, also in raids, spvp new modes etcetc...

I think Kanaxai is a red herring. I doubt we will see him. Yeah we are dealing with demons but we might find out how Kanaxai got there in the first place which would be more interesting to me. 
 

I’m wondering if the giant black hole in the middle of the map has greater significance. I’d love to circle back around and link some of the old plot threads, like the voice in the dwarves ruin fractal rather than just recycle some guild wars 1 entity like Kanaxai but if they’re looking to keep the story smaller in scope for a bit they might. 
 

I also vaguely remember some spirits of doubt, etc, in Malchor’s Leap that were always hinted to be associated with the deep sea dragon but tying them into the new theme of this map release and demons/Ai could be cool.

 

Then we also have Isle of Janthir and the demons from Bastion that I’m sure people would love to see more of.  Really so many plots to explore now the elder dragon stuff is done. This map seemed very void themed which was strange considering the resolution with Aurene and the dialogue that she would sense changes in magic. Having ley lines be the resolution to the energy crisis also seems off but perhaps they could tie the Chak into being related to the Jade Maw.

 

idk. Just spitballing potential points that don’t necessarily focus on regurgitating past villains while also tying into some items in the past. I feel like there’s so much they could do without even touching the void story for awhile.

 

[Sobx.1758]

6 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

You give the answer to the question yourself later in your post. 😉

Yeah and like it was mentioned before a few times, the answer isn't that "it's hard to learn".  😉  

6 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

I agree. Breakbars and content should not be trivialized more. "Letting players know" would be the better solution.

But the game is still doing a bad job at "Letting players know" regarding breakbars in OW meta encounters.  Breakbars appear and disappear. Sometime they disappear because they are broken, sometimes they disappear without being broken. How much time do we have to break it?

Yeah, nothing against adding more information to breakbars like, for example, literal timers on them.

6 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

How much breakbar damage is/was required for a specific breakbar, encounter, scaling? How much did we, as a group/zerg, do? How good/bad did I contribute personally in breaking a breakbar?

This on the other hand, I'm not sure makes a huge (or even meaningful) difference. The exact value of the bb doesn't change much, you see whether or not the group had enough bb damage and if it didn't... slot/use more cc skills.

6 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

How should a player, who uses a self-sustained OW build change the build for meta-event for more CC but without a big loss in heal/dps etc?

Most players (just my experience with several guildies and friends over the years) really just start learning how to handle breakbars  efficiently (do enough to break it reliable but don't do too much sacrificing your dps/other skills...) when they go into instanced group content and probably learn how to use ArcDPS. But not when they stay mostly in OW.

The pve golem is available to every player to check the values of specific changes they make to the build.

[The Queen of Rats.8574]

I feel a bit weirded out by this content drop... I like the map's design and concept and I also like the general direction the story is going with (I hope they will keep on adressing the Commander's trauma, lol)

 

Tbh I am one of the easiest player to satisfy because although I enjoy the occasional meta and I love doing events and such, I'm mostly here for the story and the exploration. And even with this info in mind I'm disappointed at how little content we've got. It would be totally fine if it was a ~2 weeks wait between "episodes", but it doesn't seem like it. The fact that there was no clear indication that the story of this "episode" was done was also a mistake. "wait for your friends to get back to you" could also mean that you had to do a few events, or complete the meta or whatever. I spent a good two hours going around the map, doing the meta, then doing my vanilla activities while thinking maybe I needed to do something to advance the story.

 

The filter mechanic is a bore, and I had the displeasure of discovering it as soon as I got out of the story instance, so I was lost with a weird unknown debuff and no way to know what to do about it. This system needs a massive overhaul, it's easy to run out of charges in the middle of the meta.

 

Speaking of the meta, was I just very unlucky with the amount of players or were the defiance bars of the boss stupidly hard to break? 

 

Anyway I am not fully disappointed yet, but I am clearly less optimistic than I was for what's to come.

[Sobx.1758]

4 hours ago, Boogiepop Void.6473 said:

The material sink key vendors are downright predatory.

What's predatory about them?

Edited March 3, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[IndigoSundown.5419]

Thanks, all, for posting your thoughts.  So, if I'm reading the thread correctly, what we've got is:

 

* A map which exists for the meta.  Not surprising.  Maps without metas or with metas that are too hard or not rewarding enough, are underused.  Nevertheless, ANet metas for me are a mass of light effects coupled with annoying mechanics.

* A mechanic that requires you to get items which expire with use to survive.  This is a bit similar to Bjora or Bitterfrost, but it sounds like the new map's mechanic is over all or most of the map.  This type of thing is not something I want to be bothered with if I'm exploring, which is my main interest in a map.

* Event rewards that can only be accessed if you spend materials for keys.  Essentially, "We value your participation in the event so much that we're adding a price tag to get the usual lackluster mix of stuff that passes for reward in GW2."

 

Sounds like anti-fun for me.

 

If you want me, I'll be in the bar.  (kudos if you know what song that is from).

[Randulf.7614]

18 minutes ago, IndigoSundown.5419 said:

Thanks, all, for posting your thoughts.  So, if I'm reading the thread correctly, what we've got is:

 

* A map which exists for the meta.  Not surprising.  Maps without metas or with metas that are too hard or not rewarding enough, are underused.  Nevertheless, ANet metas for me are a mass of light effects coupled with annoying mechanics.

* A mechanic that requires you to get items which expire with use to survive.  This is a bit similar to Bjora or Bitterfrost, but it sounds like the new map's mechanic is over all or most of the map.  This type of thing is not something I want to be bothered with if I'm exploring, which is my main interest in a map.

* Event rewards that can only be accessed if you spend materials for keys.  Essentially, "We value your participation in the event so much that we're adding a price tag to get the usual lackluster mix of stuff that passes for reward in GW2."

 

Sounds like anti-fun for me.

 

If you want me, I'll be in the bar.  (kudos if you know what song that is from).

Pretty much. To clarify though, it’s only part of the map. Like part one of Bjora, only one section is available. There’s not much to do outside of the meta unlike in Bjora which had a variety of things to do. The meta itself isn’t awful (except the bosses which are very poor) and whilst it’s a more casual minded chain, it did utilise the turtle really well which I enjoyed. Sadly exploration requires meta progression.

Less said about the haze mechanic the better. The Bjora equivalent isn’t great either, but works better (except for the hideous visual pollution in the shield which still needs changing) and more tactically than here. 
 

Spending mats for keys to open chests to get mats was a strange idea

[pallas.8150]

This was a fantastic strike mission.

 

Oh wait, it was supposed to be an entire story chapter?? Well then... 

[Edge.1653]

The chest/key system as one of the worst Anet has ever designed in the whole game and feels like trash when you're functionally forced to leave dozens of chests unopened if you do the event more than a few times.

 

The pacing of the zone is a disaster, with no time to meaningfully explore unless you choose to not contribute towards progress. Beyond that, I still don't actually know what the point of completing events in "captured" zones is or what any of that does. The time you have after completing is barely enough to do much exploration, especially if you go for the post-bosses.

 

Filter system I get conceptually, but it feels like trash busywork that just punishes you if you don't remember to re-up your filter at every location. It doesn't reinforce any narrative and is just obnoxious as all get-out.

 

It's a nice looking map and I like the "format", Drizzlewood is my favorite zone by far. But somehow this takes giant leaps backwards from Drizzlewood's design despite coming years later.

 

I get it, "It'S JuST HalF thE Map". That's not an excuse for that half to be lame and FEEL unfinished. I never felt that the first half of Bjora or Drizzelwood were remotely this unfinished, and if this is "as intended" I hope they never try to release "half" a map again since it will just underwhelm. Again.

 

Really, this was just not a very impressive/fun update overall. Where I spent weeks farming Drizzlewood after release because that zone was a blast and a ton of fun (rewards aside), it hasn't even been a week since Gyala and I'm already losing interest in returning to farm weapon skins or work on achievements or anything.

 

Anet very much made a huge error by doing functionally nothing to set expectations before this update. One line in a much larger blog post about a chance in support ain't it, champs. It ain't it at all. 

[Edge.1653]

3 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

What's predatory about them?

The pricing vs. what you generally get per-box open is hilarious. The odds of "paying out" vs. what you gamble on keys would make Las Vegas casino's drool.

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Edge.1653 said:

The pricing vs. what you generally get per-box open is hilarious. The odds of "paying out" vs. what you gamble on keys would make Las Vegas casino's drool.

I don't know the exact values, can you share?

[Edge.1653]

5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I don't know the exact values, can you share?

It's like 125 Mithril ore per key, plus various quantities of other mats of similar value. 2 ecto per key as well. Most drop a few random green items plus a few gemstone and that's about it.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Edge.1653

[Sobx.1758]

16 minutes ago, Edge.1653 said:

It's like 125 Mithril ore per key, plus various quantities of other mats of similar value. 2 ecto per key as well. Most drop a few random green items plus a few gemstone and that's about it.

I didn't ask for number of materials and "most few drops", I was asking about actual values. And I'm asking because like most other people I can't be bothered checking them, so I'll wait until one of the sites figures it out and shares it. But then again, that's also why I'm not throwing out "IT'S BEST FARM EVER!" or "IT'S PREDATORY!" claims left and right -because I didn't check it. If you have numbers then share them. If you don't, stop calling it predatory because value is measured in numbers (and the common denominator would be gold), not someone's vague feelings about it.
And if I think something's not worth buying then I just don't. I wouldn't be surprised if some keys were worth it and others were not, similarly to how drm rewards worked.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Astralporing.1957]

9 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

An unwillingness to read tool-tips and engage with a simple mechanic does not mean that this process is difficult or challenging. It means that those not engaging don't care to do so. This does not invalidate his, "theory."

And yet the reality is that most of the players do seem to be incapable of learning those very simple things. So, either they are not so simple as you think, or they are not communicated to players in clear enough way.

Again, when a theory does not match a reality, it's not the reality that is in error.

[Randulf.7614]

2 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I didn't ask for number of materials and "most few drops", I was asking about actual values. And I'm asking because, honestly, like most other people I can't be bothered doing it, so I'll wait until one of the sites figures it out and shares it. But  then again, that's also why I'm not throwing out "IT'S BEST FARM EVER!" or "IT'S PREDATORY!" claims left and right -because I didn't check it. If you have numbers then share them. If you don't, stop calling it predatory because value is measured in numbers, not someone's feelings about it.
And if I think something's not worth buying then I just don't. I wouldn't be surprised if some keys were worth it and others were not, similarly to how drm rewards worked.

It is not predatory. As I am sure you worked out, that is hyperbole. The issue is that keys are primarily gained from trading mats. And those keys open chests that give mats back and a very low chance at an ascended.

I’m sure you know this, but for others - Historically keys came from content like events and hearts and you could optionally top up with materials etc. Because so few content options exist and the return from the meta chain is so little Vs the sheer volume of chests, it’s an unbalanced system that goes against how it worked previously.

Its a rubbish system and doesn’t reward gameplay which is the correct way of implementing these things. But it’s not predatory. It’s just people using a word they don’t understand to inflame their point. Which is unnecessary since the negative feedback can stand on its own legs without it.

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

And yet the reality is that most of the players do seem to be incapable of learning those very simple things. So, either they are not so simple as you think, or they are not communicated to players in clear enough way.

They are simple and at least since eod they are explained/communicated to the players. We know that because we see what's in the game and how that mechanic is explained, meanwhile as for who does and doesn't use that mechanics, you have no information about it, you're basically guessing. Your consistently repeated empty "it's not easy" (why? how?) or "the game doesn't communicate the mechanic"(??) doesn't change the fact that... it really is. Some players got used to mechanics not being needed or being dealt with by other players. It really isn't rocket science, there's your reality.

[Edge.1653]

5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Never said you can or can't have opinions, but that's not how value comparison works. Thanks for playing a victim instead of addressing what I said. Currently I can only assume (because your non-response didn't tell me anything more) you understand and agree with what I said, but simply feel bad about not having actual numbers. Happens.

Naw, feeling good m8. Thanks for your concern though, have a good one.

[Sobx.1758]

22 minutes ago, Edge.1653 said:

Naw, feeling good m8. Thanks for your concern though, have a good one.

That doesn't address much of what I said, but thanks for quoting me I guess. Have a good day 🙋‍♂️

Edited March 4, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Astralporing.1957]

11 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

They are simple and at least since eod they are explained/communicated to the players. We know that because we see what's in the game and how that mechanic is explained, meanwhile as for who does and doesn't use that mechanics, you have no information about it, you're basically guessing. Your consistently repeated empty "it's not easy" (why? how?) or "the game doesn't communicate the mechanic"(??) doesn't change the fact that... it really is. Some players got used to mechanics not being needed or being dealt with by other players. It really isn't rocket science, there's your reality.

Again, the "reality" you speak of is one where the information and its messaging should have gotten to all players. The reality we live in however is one where it didn't get through to way too many of them. Those are not the same realities.

[vares.8457]

12 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

And yet the reality is that most of the players do seem to be incapable of learning those very simple things. So, either they are not so simple as you think, or they are not communicated to players in clear enough way.

Again, when a theory does not match a reality, it's not the reality that is in error.

But is this even the case? Are they really incapable or do they just don’t care because a lot of open world players refuse to do mechanics? I think it’s the latter. 

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Again, the "reality" you speak of is one where the information and its messaging should have gotten to all players. The reality we live in however is one where it didn't get through to way too many of them. Those are not the same realities.

The reality we live in is being repeatedly described, you just consistently choose to dodge what people say to paint it your own way. The information and messaging did get to all players, you even said in one of your posts that it should be introduced in the story in an easy to understand way and... that's how it is introduced. Did you forget about it already or what is happening here?

You're blindly assuming that it somehow "didn't get through" which is done by you simply to fit your theory that goes against your own words mentioned above in the first place (which were talking about how it should have been introduced to the players).
"it should be introduced in the story!"
-well, it is.
"it's hard and didn't get through!"  
???

What is hard? Reading? Checking your skills descriptions and hitting a golem? No, it's not.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Sobx.1758