Gyala Delves Feedback [Merged]

[Sobx.1758]

4 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

If CC/breabar was indeed so easy to learn, OW players would have learned it by now.

They are easy to learn and it was "Introduced early in a story in an easy to understand way" in EoD. So how is this somehow about "self-learning being hard"? At this point it really looks like it's more about some of the players' laziness, either "because the mechanic doesn't matter" or "because other players will do it for me!" (which makes your "balance bb not counting EMP, but let everyone use EMP" solution, well, backwards). The response here isn't to trivialize content more or to make breakbars matter less, but to let players know they'll need to care about performing certain actions/mechnics or they'll be more likely to fail.

[Moradorin.6217]

4 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

How Anet is selling/marketing their content is one way of seeing it. In the past Living world was only free if you were online during the active release of that episode, else you had to pay for it (or wait for special discount / free campains). So players "paid" LWS initially with their online-time (and Anet could sell players more gemstore stuff, like a F2P game works). And if you did not pay with your online-time during the episode release period, you had to pay with gems.

The game is part B2P (you buy expansions) and also part F2P (the gemstore is a big revenue stream that pays for dev costs, like LWS).

Hot+LWS3 and PoF+LWS4 is each a lot of content.

Now Anet is telling us that there will be no more  LW-seasons content in the future. It will be only be the content of an expansion where one half (which will be a lot smaller than the content of previous expacs)  is released at the expac release date and the other half is released later on in several small parts.

So they announced indirectly, the overall content amount will be smaller in the future. And it seems the actual episode is foreshadowing this.

And the content of the future expacs will be purely B2P (you have to pay for all of it with money). Will the players be able to earn all new skins etc. of that B2P content in game, or will they still be sold at the F2P gemstore?  (rhetorical question 😉 )

 

In many ways I expect it to come down to features+ price point, as far as how many ppl buy into it.

 

I cannot help but wonder if they are just overlooking/forgetting how the whole motive to buy lw seasons has worked in players minds. That is, new people might start with f2p then if they have fun they buy a base game which now comes with old expacs but not old lw seasons. That is a ton of content untill you get enough into the game that u want specific skins, mounts and rewards like legendary trinkets or some of the armor sets like requiem. So then THOSE THINGS motivate people to want to buy the lw seasons IMO more than the actual story content, much of the time.

 

Why does that matter? Well it seems to me that they wouldnt have to try and make people buy EACH epi just the key ones required to complete those types of collections. That is sorta how I saw the overall fabric of design of content, reward, etc within gw2 and it was kinda neat in how it worked out.

 

I hope the new system doesnt make people feel nickle and dimed too much cause that can become a turn-off. I think its much easier to motivate people to buy out of a compelling desire to have the cool thing for the toon they already enjoy, etc, etc. But maybe they know somthing Im overlooking.

 

Also I can see people skipping installments depending the map, rewards, etc reception from others unless they add mega collections that require all chapters/parts like in the past. Then if they require it all anyway, then why nickle and dime us?

Edited March 2, 2023 by Moradorin.6217

[Vavume.8065]

6 hours ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

Is there a justification for wanting many hardcore competitive farmable maps? Genuine question. For variation or to make it so the players go to many different maps since they'll probably get the same amount of gold per hour?

I dont want to farm old maps forever, Having a new farm would be nice, there is your justification.

[Moradorin.6217]

10 minutes ago, Vavume.8065 said:

I dont want to farm old maps forever, Having a new farm would be nice, there is your justification.

The idea of generating a new map just to have a new spot to farm every few months I think is pretty thin considering how much work it takes to make a map and populate it with content that is up to par. I think they are trying to find a balance and maybe waste less content, meaning less maps that go unused save the few that frequent them grinding things like mounts or leg trinkets. Not sure, but I get that impression.

[Vavume.8065]

2 minutes ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

The idea of generating a new map just to have a new spot to farm every few months I think is pretty thin considering how much work it takes to make a map and populate it with content that is up to par. I think they are trying to find a balance and maybe waste less content, meaning less maps that go unused save the few that frequent them grinding things like mounts or leg trinkets. Not sure, but I get that impression.

Months? its been years.

[Sen.7530]

Fun map, too bad the key is capped, the chest is all over the place mocking me with a huge red warning. Oh noes you don't have keys boo hoo. Not worth the effort. Having to keep reminding people to refresh the filter is also annoying.

[Forum Moderator.3419]

Hi Everyone,

Just a reminder to keep it civil. I've removed some posts.

Regards.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Vavume.8065 said:

I dont want to farm old maps forever, Having a new farm would be nice, there is your justification.

Your problem seems to be in the overfixation for optimal -or even everincreasing- rewards. How many times do you need to replay the same meta/farmtrain for it to start being boring and repetitive again? 5? 10? So if that's the justification you're using, it's simply unsustainable by new content releases anyways.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Cuks.8241]

7 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

I believe OW metas should be accessible for all types of players and should succeed without pre-formed groups if at least 50% (or 2/3 or maybe 3/4) of ad-hoc players participating in the fight know and execute the fight mechanics and also do decent damage. 

If you create a meta that requires 2/3 or 3/4  of players to execute mechanics and also do decent dmg... hey I wouldn't even say decent I would say any dmg above what dedicated healers can do. That would be the hardest meta ever by a long shot, would be harder then most, maybe all normal strikes. Those can probably all be 2 manned or less unless there is some mechanic I am currently missing (thinking about HT pushing phases with adds but even there maybe).

Your requirements are very optimistic. I would say metas are easily below 10% required participation range with maybe a few sticking out. 

[camboyano.9675]

They spend less and less effort. Every time they need "more time" for less quality

Edited March 2, 2023 by camboyano.9675

[PepeLePewPew.2107]

- I'm not a fan of maps so tied to the meta that you have difficulty even completing the story.

 

-I find the maps that mainly exist for the meta have the least replay value for me, so I'll be revisiting this about as much as Drizzlewood.

 

-Anet really needs to consider persistence of battery charges and jade tech buffs when entering/exiting instances in general.  Likewise for the filter buff in the new map.  It's one of the worst aspects of EOD.

 

Overall, my reaction is 'meh,' since again I'm not a fan of meta focused maps.  Unfortunately, that seems to be the direction the game is taking.  Others enjoy this I am sure, and I don't begrudge them.

 

[Cuks.8241]

I like the map visually and the meta concept. I like that it doesn't drag like Drizzle. But the events and boss encounters are so boring. Last boss? What was that?

[ugrakarma.9416]

i liked the e-mail about black lion.. 

this is very useful reminder that we never get enough.

[circuitnerd.5863]

Pretty much the same as everyone else has stated. 

 

1. Visually it looks great. Albeit a tad bland in some of the starting area. 
2. Navigating it is ok but those breakable walls are annoying. At least reduce the health they have. I see this being an issue in the future for those who want to get map completion and no one even goes to the map anymore. Takes too long to destroy one with the Turtle by yourself.
3. The story was somewhat decent although the bosses were too copy/paste. Especially considering it's the same in non-instanced
4. Non meta-events need to drop a guaranteed key. And meta events need to drop more keys. There is a serious disproportionate amount of chests to keys
5. The toxic haze should have been a mastery (more thoughts on that below) or at the very least, let it carry over between instances.
6. Some of the regular mobs need to be toned down for non-meta events. Despite me doing fairly good dps, they still feel a bit too tanky. 

Some extra thoughts on what would have really made this story update shine (in my opinion at least).

1. The 3 bosses at the end of the meta should all be different with different mechanics. One is susceptible to conditions, another is direct damage, 3rd is ranged preferable. All bosses have different attacks as well. Similar to Silverwaste bosses or Dragonstand's. Maybe an added mechanic is that on an interval a toxic cloud forms on the platforms and a handful of players need to stand in green circles for it to dissipate while the core group continues damaging the boss. The cloud stacks confusion quickly until it's cleared. Decrease the amount of health these bosses have by a huge amount. No respawning bosses. After all 3 are dead, a final boss appears. Void Kraken. In order to make it's face vulnerable, similar to Fractals, several people are in charge of throwing crystals. The crystals get charged by standing in an energy field, similar to the one in Dragon's End. After several hits, it's face is vulnerable to regular attacks. Of course there's the usual tentacles that always spawn at random. And void mobs that also spawn. The core group deals with these threats to protect the group collecting crystals. 
2. Jumping puzzles, collections (coins?, journals?, gas masks?), mini-game - watch out for Toxic Puddles while racing on foot and get powerups similar to Sanctum Sprint, diving goggles into the Void at the bottom (Achievement called: Head first into the Void?)
3. Toxic Haze and it's Mastery - No more getting mask charges. Toxic Haze only appears in the latter half of the current map. It no longer stacks. Toxic Haze does a flat 20% health hit every 3 minutes. Toxic Haze Mastery has 3 tiers. Tier 1 reduces the health drop to 15%. Tier 2 to 10% and Tier 3 to 5%. 
4. Toxic Puddles - There are random puddles scattered throughout the map. A vendor gives you a cleaning gun. Each puddle you clean gives between 1-2 unidentified gear blue to green quality and several hundred karma. Stepping into a puddle causes burning and confusion.
5. Time Trial Mount Race - Map specific rewards. Bronze gives 3 keys, Silver gives 5 keys, Gold gives 7 keys. And the additional awards you normally get from races. (Race tokens and unidentified gear) 

I think that's about it.

•  

[Boogiepop Void.6473]

This map has 3 main problems:

Repetition: All the camp boss and capture events are identical, and then the boss is 3 identical generic bosses with 4 identical phases across 3 platforms with no significant mechanics. The camps all need to be different and the end boss needs to just be redone entirely or at the very least made so each platform is unique (why are there even multiple platforms if they are all exactly the same?).

Haze is pointless: There is no function to this mechanic but to punish afking (which people may have legitimate need to do; don't punish the majority of the player base for a few bad actors) or spawning into the map somewhere other than the entrance (which happens at the end of story instances, so people literally die while doing the story because you cause the to). It adds nothing but tedium. Also, there is no reason to EVER take the either of the two non-free options (not worth research notes given how bad they are AND not worth the lower charge count for the worthless buffs), so having to click through the menu every time makes things feel even worse.

Keys: the key mechanics here are horrible. There are far more chests than keys dropping, and the material sink vendors for more are such bad value they are a trap for players (you will lose money on average for the material>key>chest conversions outside the special chests at the end of the meta). Enough keys should be dropping to open at least all the chests that appear in one full meta + a reasonable number of side events (since they also just show up from those too), and the vendors should be removed or made actually economical without actively ripping off players. The major chests (that you can get only once a day) should not use keys at all; if you earn the chest you get the reward. NOTHING feels worse than seeing rewards sitting there you are not allowed to pick up (without losing money in the process) after earning.

[Zok.4956]

20 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

They are easy to learn and it was "Introduced early in a story in an easy to understand way" in EoD. So how is this somehow about "self-learning being hard"?

You give the answer to the question yourself later in your post. 😉

 

20 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

The response here isn't to trivialize content more or to make breakbars matter less, but to let players know they'll need to care about performing certain actions/mechnics or they'll be more likely to fail.

I agree. Breakbars and content should not be trivialized more. "Letting players know" would be the better solution.

But the game is still doing a bad job at "Letting players know" regarding breakbars in OW meta encounters.  Breakbars appear and disappear. Sometime they disappear because they are broken, sometimes they disappear without being broken. How much time do we have to break it? How much breakbar damage is/was required for a specific breakbar, encounter, scaling? How much did we, as a group/zerg, do? How good/bad did I contribute personally in breaking a breakbar?

How should a player, who uses a self-sustained OW build change the build for meta-event for more CC but without a big loss in heal/dps etc? The game is not really teaching this if a player is not really into "therory crafting".  That's why people are using the EMP device more often (if they have the mastery and war supplies)

The game is doing a bad job in educating/teaching players with this. The mini (more like micro) tutorial in EoD is a start but nearly not enough. 

Most players (just my experience with several guildies and friends over the years) really just start learning how to handle breakbars  efficiently (do enough to break it reliable but don't do too much sacrificing your dps/other skills...) when they go into instanced group content and probably learn how to use ArcDPS. But not when they stay mostly in OW.

It is not because they were all lazy (sure, some are) but because the game did not give valuable visual feedback why they should care and how they could (and did) contribute, personally.

[Nakasz.5471]

I would just like to know why they came back with the punitive mechanics for melee players? This doesn't make the slightest sense, people who are melee on the boss are the ones who really help in the progression of the event, because they are in the stack and receive and give boons, significantly increasing the damage of the group.

Why are these people being punished??? I usually play healer in this meta, because the damage melee players take can be high. Many get downed.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Nakasz.5471

[soul.9651]

5 minutes ago, Nakasz.5471 said:

I would just like to know why they came back with the punitive mechanics for melee players? This doesn't make the slightest sense, people who are melee on the boss are the ones who really help in the progression of the event, because they are in the stack and receive and give boons, significantly increasing the damage of the group.

Why are these people being punished??? I usually play healer in this meta, because the damage melee players take can be high. Many get downed.

Just dodge

[Nakasz.5471]

12 minutes ago, soul.9651 said:

Just dodge

This is not "just dodge", if you're a melee build and need to get an orb at ley mechanic, it means ur not attacking the boss.

[soul.9651]

6 minutes ago, Nakasz.5471 said:

This is not "just dodge", if you're a melee build and need to get an orb at ley mechanic, it means ur not attacking the boss.

As if it matters that much if u for a second stop attacking the boss at the dam open world, this isnt a raid with dps checks, people can freely learn how to dodge the attacks without beeing flamed or even better to learn that mechanics exist in this game like cc or a one shot moment where u need to hide

Edited March 3, 2023 by soul.9651

[Cobra.6509]

Tbh is short, it will not last a week for me, meta is very bad( 3 x same boss is depressing on 3 different platforms = 9 times same boss). Anyhow I wonder if all this map doesn't look like a raid wing map, it has some potential boss fights, some mechanics(can use more from EOD story),  some skins, some minis, I guess the work hours are the same. So for me the question is : which is better a raid wing or a mini PVE map like GD? 

[TheLadyOfTheRings.9148]

The story was ridiculously short, but I really liked the map and the meta progression. 

[Ashen.2907]

On 3/2/2023 at 2:42 AM, Astralporing.1957 said:

When your theory does not match reality, it does not mean the reality is wrong. It means your theory is. And it so happens that your way of thinking does not match the reality. If it did, we would not be having this conversation, after all.

An unwillingness to read tool-tips and engage with a simple mechanic does not mean that this process is difficult or challenging. It means that those not engaging don't care to do so. This does not invalidate his, "theory."

[Cernow.3974]

Visually it's a pleasing map and the story is fine, although too short (I realise there's more to come). The main issue is that the meta event is a poorly implemented mess. The main issues are: 

1. The cap on keys is ridiculous. I ran the meta three times in a day, which is not really that excessive and by the end of map 2 I was out of keys. On map 3 I earned zero keys, couldn't even loot anything at final boss. That's a disgraceful waste of play time. A cap on purchased keys is fine but keys should be 100% guaranteed from event completion / participation. Or alternatively, tone down the number of minor chests (usually full of junk) and make the limited keys more worthwhile to spend. The ratio of chests to keys is way out of whack and the cost of purchasing extra doesn't scale with the rewards.

2. The filter system is a total chore, a pointless and tedious mechanic. I want to enjoy the meta and not worry constantly if my filters are running out. Every single time I've done the map I make sure I'm at 30 filters at the start of the final boss phase and every single time they run out during the final boss fight. This is poor tuning and poor design. I can see no reason to take the purchased filters because they wouldn't last long enough. If there's a way to refresh the filters without returning to a recharge station then it's not made obvious. Is there some kind of mastery being added for filters? There needs to be. Or better still, remove the filters.

3.The final boss fight is a tedious, repetitive, unimaginative grind (as is the story version). I'm bored of it already after only a handful of runs. The mechanics are dull. It is also population dependant. All map metas are of course, but this one especially so. I think this will harm longevity of the map once the initial buzz is over.

4. Rewards are poor. It's a fairly quick meta compared to others (at least while population is high) but still not worth the time invested. I'm not really interested in endless mountains of unidentified gear. The chance of ascended items is nice (but seems very low) but the rest of the drops are rather dull. And on the vendor we have the usual lacklustre selection including yet more glove skins (why the gloves obsession?) and yet another hat skin that breaks / doesn't respect hairstyles (I get there's technical reasons for this, but if you can't fix the problem don't keep designing headgear this way).

Overall, it's not a map I'm likely to keep coming back to, there's much better fun to be had elsewhere in the game.

[Radiancee.6537]

ANet really should communicate now. If that's supposed to be the replacement for Living World, then I'm really disappointed. Yes, the new map looks good. The direction the story is taking sounds promising. What the full meta might be like doesn't sound bad either.

But these are all just guesses. Where are we going now? Are we seriously going to only get 40-60 minutes of story again in a few months, nothing else? A small bite every few months followed by smaller expansions?

A clear statement from ArenaNet is necessary in my opinion.

At the moment it looks like there will be far less content and the community is just concerned. Nobody is interested in Champions 2.0.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Radiancee.6537