Scrapper is busted

[Zuko.7132]

Grenades need to not be able to tossed behind you. It’s degenerate with super speed. Ele Superspeed was just nerfed for this reason.

[GenerationX.9178]

I dont mind the damage, the supperspeed+barriar it gains from damage is a problem. There's lot meme builds doubt it will get fixed because this game is made for new players that can press 2 buttons with no knowledge of the game and win. If you dont like game just take break or quit because nothings changing lol

Edited March 9, 2023 by GenerationX.9178

[Stalima.5490]

Don't say I didn't warn everyone

[semak.7481]

2 hours ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

Thunderclap has an aftercast, quickness or not.

 

2 hours ago, apharma.3741 said:

Quickness being 50% quicker cast would make grenade barrage cast time be about 0.33s and the after cast of thunder clap is going to bring it to 0.4s or even 0.5s.

Tested myself, 0 aftercast. 

Asked another engi friend, he confirmed it has none because they "patched it few patches ago" to make it more "smooth". 
Aight, heading out from arguing with forumlings, especially these who pretend to have inhuman reaction speed  and if you dont have it thats ridiculous to not have it.  Smh

[apharma.3741]

3 minutes ago, semak.7481 said:

 

Tested myself, 0 aftercast. 

Asked another engi friend, he confirmed it has none because they "patched it few patches ago" to make it more "smooth". 
Aight, heading out from arguing with forumlings, especially these who pretend to have inhuman reaction speed  and if you dont have it thats ridiculous to not have it.  Smh

Even without the aftercast which I didn't realise they removed you still have 0.33s of warning. Average human reaction time is 0.2-0.25s and that is measured with the latency of the computer and internet. You don't have to be inhuman to react to it smh my head.

https://humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime

[semak.7481]

6 minutes ago, apharma.3741 said:

Even without the aftercast which I didn't realise they removed you still have 0.33s of warning. Average human reaction time is 0.2-0.25s and that is measured with the latency of the computer and internet. You don't have to be inhuman to react to it smh my head.

https://humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime

And you need to instantenously press 2 buttons at once. 

I went even further, asked ppl to breakstun dodge only after clap, 90% of times they eat whole barrage and upon asking, the odds to actually evade it without being 100% prepared to press 2 buttons at once because I specially asked, the answer was no, obviously

[apharma.3741]

Just now, semak.7481 said:

And you need to instantenously press 2 buttons at once. 

I went even further, asked ppl to breakstun dodge only after clap, 90% of times they eat whole barrage and upon asking, the odds to actually evade it without being 100% prepared to press 2 buttons at once because I specially asked, the answer was no, obviously

I'm not sure why you're arguing, you stated the following:

4 hours ago, semak.7481 said:

If you coulndt react to old CS from a mesmer, you wouldnt react to TC barrage with quickness as well. Because its the same thing, you both acting as if TC has 2s aftercast so you can yawn while doing so.

But okay, whatever you say 🙂

I was pointing out that these were not even remotely comparable as old CS from a mesmer all landed within 0.25s. (the cast of mind stab) I've already pointed out specifically that you have 0.33s cast time of grenade barrage even with quickness after a thunderclap.
Run that human reaction test, I'm NOWHERE near as good as the teenagers playing now or when I used to play FPS and I get 0.2s response. If you couldn't dodge old CS mesmer you almost certainly have a better chance of dodging thunderclap barrage.
I have also dodged this multiple times, there was an engineer that loved to do this or magnet pull and barrage, he'd get you if he caught you off guard but if you knew he was nearby he almost never succeeded.
Again not a comment on whether it's fair, good, stronger or not, purely that your 2 examples were not comparable in the slightest.

[Dr Meta.3158]

23 minutes ago, semak.7481 said:

 

Tested myself, 0 aftercast. 

Asked another engi friend, he confirmed it has none because they "patched it few patches ago" to make it more "smooth". 
Aight, heading out from arguing with forumlings, especially these who pretend to have inhuman reaction speed  and if you dont have it thats ridiculous to not have it.  Smh

 

[Stand The Wall.6987]

14 hours ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

The kits should just lose their auto attacks.

thats the dumbest thing i've ever heard

[Noah Salazar.5430]

but granades is all what scrapper have

 

or he schold use flamethrower witchout quickness, rifle that have 2 shots?

what other weapons you have?

 

Also turrets taking engi 4 slots as thay not exist

 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Noah Salazar.5430

[Stand The Wall.6987]

this is misinfo. just tested nade barrage on holo and it only does ~6k with scholar rune zerk amulet and all damage traits with 24 vuln 10 might. are they stacking 25 might and vuln somehow? doubt it. something other then nade barrage? nade barrage and prybar maybe? 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Stand The Wall.6987

[shion.2084]

6 minutes ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

 

yeah a reaper with shroud is something a scrapper doesn't want to get close to.   The burst won't kill it... and given you have no survivability....

As I said earlier, I pew reapers from afar... I save the stealth to get out of town when things go south.

[semak.7481]

11 minutes ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

 

Quoting me with irrelevant video, congrats

That engi is defo built to oneshot from stealth, all these boons defo not from elixirs /s

Do you want a medal tho?

[Dr Meta.3158]

12 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

yeah a reaper with shroud is something a scrapper doesn't want to get close to.   The burst won't kill it... and given you have no survivability....

As I said earlier, I pew reapers from afar... I save the stealth to get out of town when things go south.

The point isn't the matchup viability. This is a far harder matchup to deal with if the guy would use the grenade kit instead of going all in. The point is the reaction time to thunderclap. 

[Dr Meta.3158]

5 minutes ago, semak.7481 said:

Quoting me with irrelevant video, congrats

That engi is defo built to oneshot from stealth, all these boons defo not from elixirs /s

Do you want a medal tho?

I suggest getting therapy.

As an aside to everyone else with an iota of rationality and emotional stability, semak does have a point in that the main culprit, as per usual, is stealth.

[Leonidrex.5649]

Personally I dont understand why you can toss nades through your back, that needs to go first.

[jdawgie.1835]

21 hours ago, DanSH.6143 said:

I think the game works best when high damage is telegraphed

I agree a lot with this. High damage should be available but it should be telegraphed. Ideally, if you miss your counter opportunity, then you suffer for it, if not you survive. 

[Anonynja.3172]

19 hours ago, shion.2084 said:

So yeah the real threat comes from a well coordinated duo. 

I'm just gonna echo this every time I see it cuz I think this runs deeper than any particular quibble with a spec or build being OP. 

Coordinated teams fighting uncoordinated teams is inherently unfair. Competitive PvP games should never place duos alongside solo queue in ranked modes. Unranked, whatever, bring your whole guild and make new players hate the game I guess, but not in ranked.

[DanSH.6143]

why are you trying to pretend scrapper isn't insanely op right guy, it deals way too much damage from range with nades by just spamming. or running away and throwing nades backwards with superspeed, it's degenerate gameplay, it deals way too much damage for the range, aoe size, versatility it has. Not to mention that is partly ignores los and pretty much ignores single blocks like aegis.

haing 16k with tons of superspeed, blocks, and long stealth is having high sustain for a spec that can be played almsot completely from 900 range. 

Nobody likes playing against it, other specs were nerfed while being much weaker. Nades have always been a problem, almost every other patch there's an engi spec abusing it.

I don't tink Anet would change anything about the mechanics of grenade kit, like the shooting backwards thing. Hopefuly its damage will be adjusted by -20% at least. I don't think anything else should be changed about scrapper/engi as a whole. 

[Ferus.3165]

and again stealth is the problem here. Stealth in this game is broken and not suited for pvp. And the devs are also not able to fix gapclosers that are not instant to be able to hit targets that are moving with superspeed.

[Skoll.8650]

I will never stop linking this thread when this is brought up. You guys all sleep on this stuff.
🥱

[roederich.2716]

„Scrapper is not busted“. Yayaya thats why 7/10 of top 10 players are currently on scrapper…

its the new catalyst and the game is not getting better if constantly utter like this occurs.

everyone defending it is probably currently abusing it themselves.

good job!

[JosephKatz.9375]

2 hours ago, DanSH.6143 said:

why are you trying to pretend scrapper isn't insanely op right guy, it deals way too much damage from range with nades by just spamming. or running away and throwing nades backwards with superspeed, it's degenerate gameplay, it deals way too much damage for the range, aoe size, versatility it has. Not to mention that is partly ignores los and pretty much ignores single blocks like aegis.

haing 16k with tons of superspeed, blocks, and long stealth is having high sustain for a spec that can be played almsot completely from 900 range. 

Nobody likes playing against it, other specs were nerfed while being much weaker. Nades have always been a problem, almost every other patch there's an engi spec abusing it.

I don't tink Anet would change anything about the mechanics of grenade kit, like the shooting backwards thing. Hopefuly its damage will be adjusted by -20% at least. I don't think anything else should be changed about scrapper/engi as a whole. 

It is not just scrapper that is busted, it is holosmith as well.

Why are the devs either ignoring this crazy damage or are they just negligent when it comes to player vs player and the overused classes specs traits?

Even with max toughness amulet and rune, holo and scrapper still cut through health bars like butter compared to any other meta spec right now. The damage modifiers on Engi must be through the roof.

PLUS the even more broken TOOLS trait —“LOCK ON” with PASSIVE Reveal on any damage dealt by the Engi while it spams AOE and blasts in any direction. Once the 6 second reveal hits, followed immediately by the second one, it’s game over for the thief. 

This is just as much reveal as Bladesworn pre-nerf when they were able to cast “On my Mark!” 4-5x times in a minute span completely negating all stealth.

How much more bloated can one class get?

Edited March 10, 2023 by JosephKatz.9375

[roederich.2716]

2 minutes ago, JosephKatz.9375 said:

 

It is not just scrapper that is busted, it is holosmith as well.

 

Why are the devs either ignoring this crazy damage or are they just negligent when it comes to player vs player and the overused classes specs traits?
 

PLUS the even more broken TOOLS trait —“LOCK ON” with PASSIVE Reveal on any damage dealt by the Engi while it spams AOE and blasts in every direction. Once the 6 second reveal hits, followed immediately by the second one, it’s game over for the thief. 

This is just as much reveal as Bladesworn pre-nerf when they were able to cast “On my Mark!” 4-5x times in a minute span completely negating all stealth.

How much more bloated can one class get.

Your text formatting cant be read if in dark mode…

[Saiyan.1704]

15 hours ago, Zuko.7132 said:

Grenades need to not be able to tossed behind you. It’s degenerate with super speed. Ele Superspeed was just nerfed for this reason.

THIS 100%

How in the world do i chase something with superspeed that throws 2k damage grenades behind them while i.... as a willbender with specific ports... can't land anything when they do this?

Let me throw symbols behind me and CC people if they're allowed to kite lmao...