SotO Is so good and People need to stop complaining

[Doctor.1384]

Op is wrong, I got a daily objective for getting 50 pvp rank points. That's winning a total of 5 pvp matches plus queue times and losses. That's a difference of at least an hour to complete the new dailies vs 5-10 minutes to complete the old dailies. That's impossible to justify as an improvement. With it not being worth it to log in I'll probably quit the game over this issue

[Dante.1508]

1 hour ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

You used this language "restoring player choice," restoring implies that whatever existed before, was better, which is just not true...before, you only had 99 choices. You now have 99 x 40 choices. That is in fact the opposite of loss in choices.

Like I clarified for you, in fact to help your case so that you can give good feedback, is that what you actually want is the remaining relic effects (the 60 or so that weren't implemented). This has nothing to do with "losing" choices because it's a factually incorrect statement as the relic system gives you more choices.

For instance...I can now choose to take Rune of the Scholar with Relic of the Monk...or Rune of the Scholar with Relic of the Trooper...or I could take Rune of Leadership with Relic of Cerus, or Rune of the Brawler with Rune of Cerus and so on...that's 3900 possible choices I can make.

Being clear about the distinction between the relic system as a system, and wanting relic effects back is critical. I agree with your message though in full...giving players choices, but try not to misinterpret my actions.

  

It was better for a lot though, far from perfect but better.

[Cuks.8241]

Ive been very critical about the new daily system. Specifically the limited number of dailies. But thats my only real complaint. I would only wish for more choice there like before. 

Relics Im fine. They just need to add more and more fun ones. 

But the maps seem really good what I played. And thats the most important imo. Need to try the strikes. 

[Shadowpeixera.2918]

18 hours ago, LolzImSquishy.4978 said:

If they complain the way I've seen EVERYONE complain, and its really so bad and they are that mad, then go play another game? WoW has options for people 😄

If you think that's how a company needs to behave, then i'm glad you're not leading Anet. SoTO came in a line of polarizing patches ( my poor Warrior friends ), and for anyone who wanted to take slow and purchase the xpac after checking the waters, this xpac instantly worsened the experience. Builds were lost, QoL was lost, people will have to figure out new builds that might not mesh with their playstyle, and the whole relic crafting system is also convoluted.

Not only that, the fact is that to make up for the instantly worsening of QoL and the destruction of builds, the xpac gives you Weaponmaster training, a decent story and good maps ( even if reused assets ). All of those things are locked behind SoTO, a 25 dollars xpac that is way smaller than EoD while being only 5 bucks cheaper.

Now, here's a question: Why is that clients are being punished for taking slow with their wallets when that's the entirety of Anet's idea with the game? Why is my feedback, from a player who have been here 10 years, buying their xpacs, supporting and such, being instantly irrelevant because i didn't purchase a DLC that was advertised as a budget xpac instantly? Why are my runes, dailies and builds instantly on the ground, and i'm having to deal with a weird system if i don't have the xpac? Do my status as a client got revoked on the 22?

You might think like this, but i *know* Anet doesn't. If anything they're probably seeing the feedback now and going absolute insane trying to fix the various mistakes this patch caused. Which to me is further proof of how naive and childish this thinking is. Anet seldom needs players leaving the game, and no one, not even you, benefit from this stupid attitude.

For anyone without SoTO, you lose several of the draws of the Vault, you lose your runes and thus most of our builds are broken now, you lose the capability of acquiring some of the new ( good ) relics in the xpac, and you don't even get the things that would make up for it like the weaponmaster training ( a feature that should be honestly unlocked for *everyone* since GW2's core concept was to have every class use every weapon back then and just use them in different ways ), and the story and the zones.

So, anyone who didn't purchase the xpac feels punished. And if you see the forums, most people who did also feel punished.

Grow up. Anet is a business. Doing bad business decisions and antagonizing the players who have been supporting you and wanted to take their time to see if the xpac was worthy is not the way to go about it. And this kind of rationale doesn't help, instead just legitimizes this garbage throughout the industry.

People shouldn't pay 25 dollars to recover what they lost and for the 'promise' of things getting better, specially when they were also shipped this way. And not only that, but now Anet will have to manage the resources and manpower to fix most of these features, which means we'll be even more delayed in getting actually good stuff. This is what happens when you are vague about your product ( their blogposts were quite vague ) and don't have a PTS to receive feedback.

[Shadowpeixera.2918]

12 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Hey Rubi

I'm constructing a thread, with a list that describes which Relics are well-designed, and which ones are no-so-well designed. It will take a little bit of time, but some of the Relics are indeed designed extremely well (Relic of Lyhr, Relic of the Necromancer, and Relic of Speed are good examples of good design) and I think such a list will help narrow down exactly what you should look into, and how to approach making adjustments to the ones that are not.

The Relic system itself is a far superior system to the old rune system. That is a straight fact, but people are too polarized right now, over-generalizing and lumping in everything together, which makes a lot of comments largely non-constructive. Specifically with the Relic system, the majority of people are upset about only 40 out of the 100 runes having their effects present at launch of the expansion. You should maybe consider doing some PR...letting people know that you haven't taken it all away...the consideration being that people are under the assumption that they paid for receiving less things... is going to look bad.

Unlocking Weapons is also a good thing for the game, and unlocking the possibilities is a return to the guild wars franchises original design philosophies. 

I can't speak much for the PVE side of things...but the general approach of improving old, broken and abandoned systems is the right move...and like any move, execution is key...where the systems that replace the old ones need to be better than the old ones. Keep that consideration in mind. Cheers.

The relic system is better than the old rune system. IN CONCEPT.

But not in the way it is now. And people who lost their builds as their 6 rune slot was removed ( golemancer/privateer ) are either having to wait for the relics to come back or to find new builds ( more time spent, more money on the TP, more grinding ) which might not play well for them.

The old system was far from perfect, but to substitute the old system for a system that is barely functional is not the way. They shoulda have had waited with the Relics until they had at least enough to cover ALL types of builds that were lost.

[Kranlor Greyhelm.8417]

Stop complaining? Sorry, you'll have to be more specific. Do you want us to stop complaining about the lack of choice in our new dailies? Or do you want us to stop complaining about the lackluster relic choices on offer? Or are you talking about the loss of legendary relic functionality? Or maybe you mean stop complaining about how utterly lacking in challenge or variety the new rifts are? Or maybe it's the poor meta rewards on the new maps we need to stay quiet about. Or is it the general lack of, you know, actual content in what was billed as an expansion?

Tell you what, you tell us what we should be happy about. Because from where I'm sitting we've got a story that personally I've finished already without rushing much, and feel very little desire to repeat. And a couple of maps with a LOT of reused assets. A couple of bang average metas that if they don't fix the rewards will be dead before we hit September and....I'm struggling to think of much else.

I could grind an achievement for a skyscale I already own, including a whole bunch of timegated materials. In fact I HAVE to grind it if I want to max out the rewards from the new wizards vault, because it's a requirement for an achievement there. Gee, thanks.

So, less choice, reused assets, asinine design decisions. There are a whole bunch of things that I could be complaining about. How about you tell me specifically why I should just put up with whatever ANET decides to serve up?

[cloudsareyum.8120]

I was going to buy it really it sounded good but like they've locked me out of dailies because they won't let you choose. Like just locking someone out of game content is not okay. Rubbing people's illnesses in their face is not okay. If it were literally for that one feature I'm pretty sure I would be buying the x-pack and I'd be very happy with the with the contents. Because I was very excited about it until the update dropped and they locked me out of game content I previously enjoyed doing

And yes it's content low but if it weren't for the fact of them locking me out of choosing a daily so I no longer so I can't use wizard vault I would enjoy it very much Lee because skyscale going up higher I'm sold or I was sold being able to explore that one area was very exciting to me.

Edited August 24, 2023 by cloudsareyum.8120

[Gravitron.7982]

GW2 is not immune to criticism, and any consumer can criticize any product. Just because you like something, doesn't mean no one is suddenly allowed to dislike it. The reality is, money is what talks, so we will see what this expansions sales numbers looks like, and what kind of drop off this has months after the expansion launch. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

14 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

@LolzImSquishy.4978 I'm really glad you're enjoying SotO! I want to thank you for sharing that you like the expansion--the good feedback is necessary to hear so we know what people like and want more of, plus I'm gonna be real honest: It's fun to read. 🙂 

Criticism is absolutely needed as well though--it's part of how we keep making the game better and better--so I also want to thank those of you who are taking your time to constructively outline what you want to see improved, and let you know that I am continuing to read through a lot of feedback and pass it to various teams. I appreciate all of you who are contributing constructively! 

God bless you Rubi, you sure do have a lot to read through.

Some quick Feedback for you:

In the Wizard's Vault can we get a toggle based on Core | HoT | PoF | EoD | SoTO just like for PvE | WvW | PvP that sorts the dailies and weeklies based on the preferred expansion and game mode? WvW and PvP expansion exclusive items could be Defeat XX players in YY mode with ABC Elite Specialization.

Can we buy items from the Vault in user specified amounts rather than just 1 of 5 at a time? If I want to buy all the available Tomes of Knowledge I'd like to do so with fewer clicks.

Also, in the Vault can get Karma consumables added in please?

[Echostorm.9143]

15 hours ago, Tsakhi.8124 said:

I have no issues with people having opinions. I have a problem with the way they present them. There is constructive criticism and there is straight up bashing the developers and the game. Instead of hurling insults, why not hurl suggestions to other players as well the developers at large. I assure you that there was plenty of passion and heart put into this game. I see the people that hurl insults and are just basically badmouthing because they're behind a screen as kind of churlish. Yes, I realize the irony and no I don't care. I love the expansion and I don't regret pre-ordering. That's my two coppers. 

People have been hurling suggestions at Anet for decades, you can see hundreds of pages here.  They never respond.  In the last few updates they have loudly ignored massive community uprisings about unpopular changes and pushed through anyway and without comment or explanation.  Players have every right in the world to be venting anger at the company because constructive criticism and suggestions have been roundly and silently ignored for almost the entire history of the game.  You sound like an Anet employee from your assurances, why don't you communicate with players?

[Batalix.2873]

Aesthetically/narratively SotO itself seems...fine. The systems are kind of underwhelming and clunk, but are at least halfway to what may be fine after being given a few more passes and solidified with expac 5. I think they could have been even more ambitious with the archipelago (where are my Bjora, Grothmar, and Silverwastes islands?)

But I'm still not playing because combat just doesn't feel meaningful anymore, after the series of balance patches we got and the new weaponsmastery totally diluting especs and their respective niches/identities.

The second sticking point is a huge problem for me because buildcrafting and combat is arguably the game's only appeal factor after you've completed most of the story-driven chapters/achivements. It sustains the moment to moment gameplay in the face of long, repetitive grinds, and is ultimately the only reason I would grind for legendary armor.

Unless and until the devs go back and retool class design to actually have playstyle niches, job fantasy identities, and boons/condis that actually feel logically tied to the class, I just don't have any incentive to play the game. Healer/support design space is going to kit. Alac/quickness application on nearly every June balance patch class just doesn't make sense. And now we are going to see further consolidation/homogenization of meta builds with universal weapon access.

I wish I could applaud the SotO team for pulling together something pretty decent, but it is all marred by this frankly horrendous new class design paradigm. Words cannot express how badly the design/balance team kittened that all up, and how myopic the playerbase is for constantly demanding "balance".

Edit: Oh also the Skyscale thing is still problematic. Player participation in HoT/PoF maps is going to tank as a consequence. But from watching friends play, it also seems like parts of the map are still very frustrating to navigate, even with a Skyscale. What we needed was a grapplehook feature like in Gyala Delves or Oakheart's reach. I am still convinced that there was a lost jade tech mastery for traversing EoD maps that ended up being cut and retrofitted into the Silent Surf tech, and I am still quite salty about it.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[Sahfur.5612]

There has been lots of criticism that was well thought out and it got no response. Not by people who hate the game, but from people who want to see it succeed.

Pretty much only toxic positivity hugbox praise gets a reply because Anet doesn't actually use the criticism for anything meaningful and it does not get forwarded to anyone in charge of changing anything until years and years pass. Most WvW players are sick of this and at this rate the only esport around these parts is betting on what part of the balance and build diversity they will break next and how long it will take for it to be corrected.

If you haven't noticed some of the weird choices, you are probably in PvE playing this games version of that old flash game "You Have To Burn The Rope" and getting your builds off of some streamer.

 

It isn't like we dislike the game in its entirety, we just have some issues with some of the frankly obviously rushed decisions (the crunch is real) and wish they would have put more time into some things.. and listened better. Most of us like most of the game, but we have issues with how some things are implemented, or even not implemented at all. For years.

 

Also on another note: Isn't it weird how someone manages to always react in complete confusion to every post that isn't full on shining praise of everything, is always around, does it relatively immediately with almost no fail? Its almost like its the persons job or something. It certainly is an interesting pattern since I noticed many posts from different people getting that reaction immediately. Does that person sleep?

Edited August 24, 2023 by Sahfur.5612

[The Spiral King.2483]

Customers not only have a right, but a duty to express their disappointment in a product that doesn't meet their expectations. I took a couple year break because I was put off by the way the game was going, and recently came back to give it a go again. For the most part, in terms of QoL, balancing, value, and straight up fun, things have continued to go downhill. Also, lol at these random singular "confused" emojis on well thought out but critical posts responding to OP's ridiculous mini tirade, someone seems to be a bit upset.

Edit: kitten Sahfur might be on to something, under 30 seconds for my personal confusion face. I'm almost impressed.

Edited August 24, 2023 by The Spiral King.2483
lol, lmao even at these reactions

[TheDraco.3965]

15 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

@LolzImSquishy.4978 I'm really glad you're enjoying SotO! I want to thank you for sharing that you like the expansion--the good feedback is necessary to hear so we know what people like and want more of, plus I'm gonna be real honest: It's fun to read. 🙂 

Criticism is absolutely needed as well though--it's part of how we keep making the game better and better--so I also want to thank those of you who are taking your time to constructively outline what you want to see improved, and let you know that I am continuing to read through a lot of feedback and pass it to various teams. I appreciate all of you who are contributing constructively! 

What's constructive about ignoring/whining about mean people????

[Chichimec.9364]

When there are things I don't like about the game, I tend to say so here in the forums. So it only seems fair that when there are things I like about the game, I should say that here too. I bought the Ultimate Edition of the pre-release soon after it became available. For days this past week I was excitedly waiting for the expansion to drop like a kid waiting for Christmas morning. As soon as I had it downloaded, I jumped into the game to start looking at and playing with all our new toys. So far I really, really like this expansion and it even had an unexpected, positive effect on me. 

First, some of the basics though. The story line seems to be moving a lot faster and is a lot more engaging than I found EoD's story to be. At this point, I'm partway into Chapter 3 and have been exploring the beautiful new maps as well as doing the story. Where I've spent most of my time though since SotO dropped is with the Wizard's Vault and the new dailies/weeklies system. That's where SotO had that positive, unexpected effect on me. I've got one main account and four alt accounts. On the main account I spend a lot of time in WvW and the rest of my ingame time doing my mat gathering/farming routine. I also have a set mat gathering/farming routine on my alt accounts that I run though with all of them every day. What I hadn't realized was how boring that set routine had become. The new dailies/weeklies system shook up that routine and had me re-engaging with parts of the game I hadn't gotten to in a while - and it was fun! I liked going back to the Shadow Behemoth on my alt accounts, as well as running around to do so many events, kill so many enemies and so forth. Core Tyria came alive for me again. I particularly liked that it was things like "complete 10 events" without specifying which map I had to complete them on. That way I could run each alt account on a different map to help keep things fresh. Another thing that I really, really like about the Wizard's Vault is that I get to chose for myself what I want to spend my aa on. Since Tuesday, those alt accounts have been sending a nice chunk of gold every day back to my main account and I really like that too. 

As to some of the things folks have had issues with - having more choices in which dailies/weeklies we can do would be nice. The range of options every day under the old system was something I liked. Adding more choices would make the dailies/weeklies even more fun for me. When it comes to relics, I am NOT a theory crafter at all. The different effects of the various relics are too subtle for me. So I'm just waiting to see how the community rates the different relics and starts making suggestions for which relic to use with which kind of builds. @Rubi Bayer.8493 if you happen to read this post, please convey my gratitude to the SotO team for giving us such a creative, engaging expansion. In your post about what the Devs were looking forward to in this expansion, one of them said something about the deer they had put on the various maps. Please tell her that I saw a deer on the first SotO map and I thought of her and that comment. 

Finally, Rubi, if you've made it this far, there is one negative thing that I have to go full toxic on, unleashing all my horrific Karen energy - Please, please would you ask the WvW Devs to let us WvW players know what happened with the Alliance beta that seems to have disappeared? Something seems to have happened and keeping us posted about the delays would be better than the total Sound of Silence we've gotten so far about it. 
Thank you
C.

[Grouwdi.6279]

totally - amazing Expansion and I WUV IT!

[AliamRationem.5172]

5 hours ago, Tiamat.8254 said:

I don't generally mind complaining so long as it's constructive. Usually it's just whining with little substance. There are some great things about soto but also they have made some really horrible decisions. 

For example the new skyscale mastery line. It's rehashing 2 masteries that already exist. Yes they add a little bit on top but I just don't care. I have zero interest in those masteries.

Another example. Playing through the story with another player, the opening bit of soto should have been epic, but instead I was floating orb doing nothing... Also bits where I wasn't a floating orb I couldn't interact or influence the story in any way, so what is the point in doing the story with another player/s?

I have more examples but don't want to make this a long post no one will read.

I am mostly in favour of a lot of new features. I love the relic system for example, which I know it's controversial. I used to hate having those special 6th rune abilities locked to a certain combination as when I do want something different I needed to change all my runes. PITA. And now it opens up really nice possibilities for my builds that previously I wouldn't bother with because of the annoyance of changing the runes. Yes even with legendary runes this was annoying.

Also I prefer the ability to choose what to spend AA on for dailies. Most of the stuff I had no care for. I bet people are really hurting that they don't get their repair canisters... Not to mention the boring lack of anything new for each 30 day login reward cycle. The feature needs work, but it's a promising start.

Overall I am not disappointed but it feels rushed and a lack of testing or feedback on new systems which should have been avoided. This is partly why I'm worried about the decision to release another expac in a years time. You can't maintain high quality unless you're running 2 different Dev studios that are well managed with a shared goal. 

Just my opinion. 

I like what they were trying to do with the relic system.  Uncoupling the 6th rune bonus from the passive stat bonuses is a good idea.  However, the execution is just...wow!  How did they screw this up so badly?  Why are there so few relics available on release?  Why are so many of them linked to elite/heal skill?  Why are those who owned legendary runes having to wait 6 months?  None of this should have happened.  If relics weren't ready then they should have been released 6 months from now.  As it stands they made a lot of useful effects simply disappear while also making the entire system less convenient especially for those who already invested heavily into legendary runes.  Let's just say that this ain't it, ANet.  Try harder.

[Ashen.2907]

3 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I like what they were trying to do with the relic system.  Uncoupling the 6th rune bonus from the passive stat bonuses is a good idea.  However, the execution is just...wow!  How did they screw this up so badly?  Why are there so few relics available on release?  Why are so many of them linked to elite/heal skill?  Why are those who owned legendary runes having to wait 6 months?  None of this should have happened.  If relics weren't ready then they should have been released 6 months from now.  As it stands they made a lot of useful effects simply disappear while also making the entire system less convenient especially for those who already invested heavily into legendary runes.  Let's just say that this ain't it, ANet.  Try harder.

My sentiment as well.

[Zoid.2568]

What is so good about this expansion? they are reusing assets and their out of ideas to implement AND they haven't released all features on launch, we have to wait up to 6 months for all features. I'm still playing the expansion but it's nothing like the expansions we have had before.

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Zoid.2568 said:

What is so good about this expansion? they are reusing assets and their out of ideas to implement AND they haven't released all features on launch, we have to wait up to 6 months for all features. I'm still playing the expansion but it's nothing like the expansions we have had before.

I'd add that the new masteries don't seem very well thought out.  It's like they made it for the skyscale and then decided after the fact to include the griffon.  Now once you unlock the masteries to interact with leylines and updrafts on your griffon they become like aerial obstacles that snatch you out of high speed flight.  Did they not QC this?

[HotDelirium.7984]

14 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Oh, look.  A white knight.  Never seen one of those before. 🙄

I'm glad you loved EoD and are loving SotO.  Other people have perfectly legitimate complaints about aspects of this content.  Deal with it.

Those legitimate complaints need to also be tempered against variables players will not be made aware of like some of the things behind the scenes game developed. You can still find something unacceptable (for example the new dailies) but included in that assessment should be wonderings of their manpower and resources. WOW does worse with considerably more so I can only imagine how much better Anet would be with more money.

[Randulf.7614]

_deleted_ wrong feedback thread

Edited August 24, 2023 by Randulf.7614

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

I do enjoy SotO, but I am a realistic person. I also can easely say what I like, don't like, and actually regret.

I like the new maps, love the fact they added new mechanics you have to be aware of. - I do not like the sheer lack of explanation about mechanics to players. Where they started a step in the right direction in EoD about combo fields, teach things then you have to put in practise, now you are often hit with mechanics and have to find out or learn from other players what is actually going on. (Example, the growing green circles, the "you are marked for death" etc etc... nothing of that is explained ingame how to mitigate them)

I enjoy most of the new masteries, Updraft for Skyscale and Leyline for Skyscale is a big plus, but I absolutely dislike the leyline pull on griffons, not needed and functionality breaking. A massive mistake in the eyes of an avid griffon flyer. It is bad, really bad. 

The new daily systems I do enjoy. Overall I consider it an improvement, except the fact that nothing was properly explained on claiming the currency after completion and the currency cap and therefor inability to claim. 

Overall I am having a good time. But it needs some polish for sure. (for example, the sheer amount of enemies that love to push or pull, so numerous that it feels to me I am playing with lag... the combat due to this - in 1 story instance, I counted 12 pulls within 5 seconds in different directions - feels absolutely aweful - I seriously thought I was lagging untill I looked back the footage - yeah I record pretty much everything)

I never get hyped for new expansions or content. Hyping things up sets you up for dissapointment. In a hyped up person's mind the expectations grow beyond realistic and therefor dissapointment will happen even if it was a 100% perfect release. 

I am not in the "this is garbage, I am leaving camp" but I sure am also not in the "this is perfect" camp. 

I give it an overall solid thumbs up and feel I did not waste my money.

But I reserve the right to be critical on things I do not like - I also think forums are used more often for things people wonder about, are confused about and are disagreeing with. 
Someone that feels everything is fine, does not feel the reason to visit the forums. - Therefor the forums cannot be considered a good representations of the sentiments of the entire player base. - says someone like me who can be vocally critical 😄 

[Assolador.3598]

having lots of fun on wing 8, and new pvp gamemode and new map! 

[Tiviana.2650]

19 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

@LolzImSquishy.4978 I'm really glad you're enjoying SotO! I want to thank you for sharing that you like the expansion--the good feedback is necessary to hear so we know what people like and want more of, plus I'm gonna be real honest: It's fun to read. 🙂 

Criticism is absolutely needed as well though--it's part of how we keep making the game better and better--so I also want to thank those of you who are taking your time to constructively outline what you want to see improved, and let you know that I am continuing to read through a lot of feedback and pass it to various teams. I appreciate all of you who are contributing constructively! 

Ooh while you are here can you look into the green mechanic on the soto champs, normally this is a stack mechanic but nothing is working, could be bugged? 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Tiviana.2650