Why the cry on no downstate?

[foxtrot.6902]

Been seeing a lot of Q_Q on the no downstate and just curious why?

To me it seems like a nice equalizer when your group/zerg/pack is out massively out numbered. Can't be carried by the zerg as easily.

Wanna jump into that 1 v 2+ and you die? Bummer you deserved it lol> hard raise for you.

The only real "down" side I can see is for that poor one person that runs into a zerg and trying to get away into a Tower/Keep and uses every cool down but dies to conditions behind the gates. Then I feel for ya, you made it that far and massively out numbered.

[mindcircus.1506]

Because every time any change is proposed in GW2's WvW the gatekeepers lose their minds.See gliding.See DBL.See pips.pretty much anything....

It's going to be a fun way to shake up the game for a week.

[Aeolus.3615]

Cause it is a zerg spam game and they wan to be rallied with the spam :) rather than have team work...

[Zushada.6108]

I think no downed state isn't a huge deal. This is the only game I have played that has a downed state and it was a very foreign concept to me back at launch. To be perfectly honest there are times in this game I wish I didn't have downed state so I could just WP and get on with it.

[Evolute.6239]

It's really obnoxious for zergs because it promotes unhealthy play. It will force people to pinsnipe and target commanders even more so than what happens now which kills a lot of of the fun. In addition it forces a pirate playstyle because if they have 4 revs who all just press 3 and you get popped.. well, k. You're down. Trying to force push into a scourge wall? Probably not happening, you wont be able to rally your downs by the time you get to W them.

It also invalidates a lot of builds (transfusion necros, gyro scrappers) and will cause a TON of run backs for people who die. And some of the run backs are flat out awful (red borderland mainly)

I see some merits, but trying to siege a keep is already pretty bad. Trying to siege something like Red Borderlands Keeps and getting AC'd will just be dull as hell. They can just AC you, kill off a squishy, and they're dead. Woopie. Such interactive gameplay there.

It also hurts roamers who like to duel, but that's probably less important as they should be on zerg island and friends can res them from dead anyway.

[DeceiverX.8361]

@mindcircus.1506 said:Because every time any change is proposed in GW2's WvW the gatekeepers lose their minds.See gliding.See DBL.See pips.pretty much anything....

It's going to be a fun way to shake up the game for a week.

To be fair, the first two items on the list were of major concern, had and still have some serious problems, and resulted in a huge chunk of people leaving the game, and Pips prior to OS degen + Gift of Battle only in WvW was a huge ordeal. It's even still a bit of a problem with lockout on higher servers.

[coro.3176]

Well I'm looking forward to it, but to give you an idea of what people might be complaining about..

A lot of fights go something like this:

• Me & an ally come across ~4 enemies.
• Enemies all target my ally. He goes down, but we also get 1 of them down.
• I use function gyro to stomp the downed enemy while defending my ally from getting stomped with cc, blinds, stealth, etc.
• Stomped enemy rallys my teammate and we repeat the process until they're dead. Hooray. We won a 2v4.

Now imagine that scenario with no downed state.

The 2 of us come across 4 enemies. They kill one of us. We kill one of them. Now it's a 1v3. That's a lot more difficult to pull off.

I mean, It'll still be a fun week. It just takes a lot of complexity away from small engagements and removes Scrapper's class mechanic entirely.

[jacksmith.6028]

People will just have to tank up!

[Hesacon.8735]

Downstate is a unique feature to GW2 that's pretty awesome.

[Strider Pj.2193]

Zergs will QQ about the impending pin sniping. Kinda looking forward to doing it and watching the chaos it creates as people try to figure out what to do without their commander.

[Justine.6351]

It's why I'm an advocate for 7sec cap on downed state, then dead.

One shots can be countered with timely rezing and people cannot linger in downed state waiting for a kill rally. Poison and cleaving become a more prominent tactic for denying rally rather than a delay.

[friggarn.5360]

No downstate is fine if we can rez while in combat.

[LetoII.3782]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:Zergs will QQ about the impending pin sniping. Kinda looking forward to doing it and watching the chaos it creates as people try to figure out what to do without their commander.

A lot of people have spent the whole game safely nestled deep in a zerg following their pin.

The thought of having no commander and running alone from spawn must be mortifying.

[Lapiy.7160]

The ranged damage is the game is so high even with full minstrels gear on any guild worth there salt can just oneshot any class in the game, Currently to push at all you need to have transfuse necros and guards running MI to pick up the random downs because the damage is just so high that you have to expect random people to die. Also if you ever get caught in winds you are pretty much dead 100% of the time now instead of having a chance to get transfused out. If the damage was not already so extremely high then this week would not be so bad but currently the game is going to turn into an endless stream of people oneshoting drivers and then a 1200 range battle of oneshot people in clumps until one side losses to many people and runs away. Also in an outnumbered fight there is no amount of skill or tankyness that's going to save you from a group of twice or 2.5 times your numbers from just running forward and blobing you down. The aoe cap is still a thing and even if you bomb hard and down say 15-20 of them the other 30-40 will just keep running foward and because as I said before there is an insane amount of easy to land low cooldown ranged damage coming from rev necro and ele so you will die because a good chunk of the time when you win an outnumbered fight you have resed people who just go down to the extremely high easy to land ranged dmg in the game. Just because it would feel fine to people who run around in unorganized pug groups that are not even in ts/discord and 80% of them are missing random pieces of gear or are on bad stats and builds does not mean they should ruin the game for everyone else for a week.

[Justine.6351]

@Lapiy.7160 said:The ranged damage is the game is so high even with full minstrels gear on any guild worth there salt can just oneshot any class in the game, Currently to push at all you need to have transfuse necros and guards running MI to pick up the random downs because the damage is just so high that you have to expect random people to die. Also if you ever get caught in winds you are pretty much dead 100% of the time now instead of having a chance to get transfused out. If the damage was not already so extremely high then this week would not be so bad but currently the game is going to turn into an endless stream of people oneshoting drivers and then a 1200 range battle of oneshot people in clumps until one side losses to many people and runs away. Also in an outnumbered fight there is no amount of skill or tankyness that's going to save you from a group of twice or 2.5 times your numbers from just running forward and blobing you down. The aoe cap is still a thing and even if you bomb hard and down say 15-20 of them the other 30-40 will just keep running foward and because as I said before there is an insane amount of easy to land low cooldown ranged damage coming from rev necro and ele so you will die because a good chunk of the time when you win an outnumbered fight you have resed people who just go down to the extremely high easy to land ranged dmg in the game. Just because it would feel fine to people who run around in unorganized pug groups that are not even in ts/discord and 80% of them are missing random pieces of gear or are on bad stats and builds does not mean they should ruin the game for everyone else for a week.

Tl,DrPeople will have to learn how to play and utilize defensive mechanics beyond facetank stat gear.

[Blocki.4931]

@Justine.6351 said:It's why I'm an advocate for 7sec cap on downed state, then dead.

One shots can be countered with timely rezing and people cannot linger in downed state waiting for a kill rally. Poison and cleaving become a more prominent tactic for denying rally rather than a delay.

This.

I said it in a different thread, but it's way too hard to kill somebody in downed state half the time. Just having to abandon them behind you in larger scale fights is terrible, they just rally because they tagged that elementalist in your group and they immediately blow up 2 seconds later, while you get them down to maybe 20% of their rally HP

[bq pd.2148]

many of these cry post really sound like the difference between a good and a bad player is his ability to ressurect. i hoped the good players can more then just use a rez trait and spamm their interaction key or use some ressurecting skill/trait, like you know use proper builds, time and place their skills better, pick the right target etc.

[Warkind.6745]

I don't mind the week long event, and I think it's pretty cool that WvW is getting some kind of attention.

But no down state only encourages gank builds, so everyone is going to be whipping out their generic thieves. Watch out for incinerators, scarves, and electric blue hair.

[Riba.3271]

I am up for it::+1:

• Makes roaming outnumbered fights more viable
• I think it pushes people to play more melee, just because melee classes typically can get some toughness. Eles and such can get oneshot. You cant really play range class in enemy keep.
• It removes certain rage from WvW for people not pressing F instantly like in high level PvP
• It makes commanding slightly easier, commanders will just have to be good at the game to perform well, they dont have to rotate between friendly and enemy downs.
• removes the "faceroll" pushes where you just keep running forward and keep rallying off the downs

:-1:

• It removes the chance to actually use the downstates to push during pirateship, because if you ignore the downstates correctly, you can push and even if some of your melee dies, they can rally.
• It nerfs mesmer and guardian a bit because they run illusion of life/merciful intervention currently.
• Commander focus, will make moa too strong.

[Vagrant.7206]

Because it just highlights how bad of a state scrapper is in that nobody thinks its unique mechanic disappearing is a big deal.

[Drinks.2361]

@mindcircus.1506 said:Because every time any change is proposed in GW2's WvW the gatekeepers lose their minds.

This is VERY true of the official forums

[Brother.1504]

All elementalist mains. Nuff said.

[friggarn.5360]

@Brother.1504 said:All elementalist mains. Nuff said.

Your point? Eles are actually good and healthy for this game mode - we are not Scourge.

[XenesisII.1540]

Pins will just have to run tanky, and if they weren't before I don't know why, you need to since you're the important part of the zerg and need to remain alive for the entire fight, very rarely people will stick around once the tag does down, you only need damage to tag stuff, the real damage is suppose to come from the people behind you anyways. Anything less than that is a waste of people's time, unless you plan on running away often, which can also often result in your zerg dying for no reason too.

[Lapiy.7160]

@Justine.6351 said:

@Lapiy.7160 said:The ranged damage is the game is so high even with full minstrels gear on any guild worth there salt can just oneshot any class in the game, Currently to push at all you need to have transfuse necros and guards running MI to pick up the random downs because the damage is just so high that you have to expect random people to die. Also if you ever get caught in winds you are pretty much dead 100% of the time now instead of having a chance to get transfused out. If the damage was not already so extremely high then this week would not be so bad but currently the game is going to turn into an endless stream of people oneshoting drivers and then a 1200 range battle of oneshot people in clumps until one side losses to many people and runs away. Also in an outnumbered fight there is no amount of skill or tankyness that's going to save you from a group of twice or 2.5 times your numbers from just running forward and blobing you down. The aoe cap is still a thing and even if you bomb hard and down say 15-20 of them the other 30-40 will just keep running foward and because as I said before there is an insane amount of easy to land low cooldown ranged damage coming from rev necro and ele so you will die because a good chunk of the time when you win an outnumbered fight you have resed people who just go down to the extremely high easy to land ranged dmg in the game. Just because it would feel fine to people who run around in unorganized pug groups that are not even in ts/discord and 80% of them are missing random pieces of gear or are on bad stats and builds does not mean they should ruin the game for everyone else for a week.

Tl,DrPeople will have to learn how to play and utilize defensive mechanics beyond facetank stat gear.

If you read anything I said then you would relies that's the exact opposite of what I said, you use defensive mechanics like transfuse and mi to res people because there is no amount of defensive's in the game that can stop people from going down in the current state of the game. If you had ever played in a high end guild on NA or EU you would understand this. Those kind of guilds do something called footage review and when you look at footage and someone literally dies in about .25 seconds with no way from them to avoid the damage then you would understand why people relie on Transfuse or MI or they just run a literal one shot comp. I don't get why people who don't even play in top guilds say things like this and there is not even an explanation of why they think that way. People just make statements without even explaining why they think there statement holds any water in the current meta, it's not helpful and does not encourage meaningful discussions.