Meteor Wars!

[SoV.5139]

@Guizao.4167 said: What? You just made zero sense. I just said that since PoF hit the only professions that do something are those I mentioned above. They were before and they will still be around after MS fix. What's odd? How can you twist things this way...>

It makes absolute perfect sense to point out the irrelevance of complaining about the differences between sustain builds in a non sustain META.

100% HP dont need a heal thanks0% HP dont need a heal thanks.Guardians taking the slots the elementalists used to occupy in parties is due to stability spam, not due to healing. You might see more elementalists occupying those slots if the community stopped supporting power creep leading to one shot kill META.

[Straegen.2938]

It is almost laughable trying to defend where MS is at this point. Within a day of this patch going live, the zerg/guild meta in the game changed significantly. Scourges which most agreed where strong-to-OP prior to the patch are being replaced by Staff Weaver. On Q'd maps, the number of Staff Weavers are often staggering.

Also this "just get out of the circle" concept is nonsense. Firstly, it is very difficult to determine what a person is standing in until they get hit as there are so many overlapping red circles in large fights. Secondly, now that Weavers are dropping multiple MS shots dodging out of one often puts a person in another. Lastly, comparing this to Thieves and Mesmers is ridiculous. Roaming/Dueling classes built around killing ONE disadvantaged player (typically ones running zerk, wounded or some other weak player) is vastly different than an AoE skill dropping bodies all over the place.

Meta is meta but some changes in meta are for the worse and this is decidedly for the worse.

[scerevisiae.1972]

While you're doing that, change Lava Font back to how it was.

yeah it doesn't make a lot of sense to nerf a skill that has been in the game more or less unchanged for years, when 1) scourge AOE dmg is out of control (not to mention free 5K barrier on PBAOE skill... wtf?), and 2) meteor shower is heavily buffed.

[supreme.3602]

@aspirine.6852 said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:

@"Victory.2879" said:Ah from what I see, Ele finally gets to put out the sort of damage numbers stealth abusers, mesmers, CoR users (which has a lot lower cooldown) on a skill which has a long channel and you're all on here crying about it.

Might even log in at the weekend back on my healer ele..or continue sniping with my ranger as there will be a lot more squishy targets toi kill.

You can't kill competent eles who run arcane traits.

You could do a nice bombing movie for us to see. Imagine the numbers on reset night.

Not a movie, but watch it nonetheless. Lol.

[foxof.8752]

This actually reach a level that it need a parody name to it as a rememberance, i suggest calling it "Spaceship meta", upgraded from "Pirateship meta".

[Egorum.9506]

@"foxof.8752" said:This actually reach a level that it need a parody name to it as a rememberance, i suggest calling it "Spaceship meta", upgraded from "Pirateship meta".

I'm on board, that's a solid description of the meta right now

[aspirine.6852]

@"Dahir.4158" said:

@aspirine.6852 said:

@"Dahir.4158" said:

@"Victory.2879" said:Ah from what I see, Ele finally gets to put out the sort of damage numbers stealth abusers, mesmers, CoR users (which has a lot lower cooldown) on a skill which has a long channel and you're all on here crying about it.

Might even log in at the weekend back on my healer ele..or continue sniping with my ranger as there will be a lot more squishy targets toi kill.

You can't kill competent eles who run arcane traits.

You could do a nice bombing movie for us to see. Imagine the numbers on reset night.

Not a movie, but watch it nonetheless. Lol.

Nice numbers ? thanks

[Voltekka.2375]

@SoV.5139 said:

@"Guizao.4167" said:I'm afraid you're actually right, and not just Meteor Shower that will be fixed, the elementalist profession and its capabilities to deal real damage will also be fixed. I'm wondering how many elementalists will still stay unwanted on WvW squads...all of them perhaps? Because before this "bug", Lava Font nerf and EoS nerf, everything was fine for elementalist - it was working as intended.

Both bomb ele and heal ele have been popular in WVW for years now. Thats not going to change when they fix a bug that one shots maxed armor characters.

Heal ele is dead. Seriously, dead. Noone plays that after fb. Ele come for the dps they provide

[Voltekka.2375]

@Guizao.4167 said:

@SoV.5139 said:

@Guizao.4167 said:I'm afraid you're actually right, and not just Meteor Shower that will be fixed, the elementalist profession and its capabilities to deal real damage will also be fixed. I'm wondering how many elementalists will still stay unwanted on WvW squads...all of them perhaps? Because before this "bug", Lava Font nerf and EoS nerf, everything was fine for elementalist - it was working as intended.

Both bomb ele and heal ele have been popular in WVW for years now. Thats not going to change when they fix a bug that one shots maxed armor characters.

My dear you didn't really read the latest balance patch notes - our bread and butter skill, Lava Font has been nerfed (40% dmg reduction) and EoS has been nerfed, what's left for damage builds now? You see, bomb ele is no longer bombastic, or it will be no longer (waiting for the fix). And heal ele just gives me nausea, so boring and it stood the only effective build in competitive scenarios

FOR YEARS

, but after PoF hit you no longer need them - you have firebrands! What squad needs a healing ele where you can simply take a healing firebrand that actually brings much more to the table than a healbot ele? I play WvW every single day that's all I see Firebrands + Scourges + Chronos + Spellbreakers. They don't even care about who's on the backline. And you're right, it's not going to change because it has already changed, after the fix it will only normalize a short popularity surge, that's all.

I fully agree, thats exactly whats going on in wvw. And i play many hours daily

[Etheri.5406]

@Guizao.4167

Admittingly scourge was simply superior over weaver at PoF release; but weaver has been very much viable along with all other mentioned classes for what... 5 months? Sure you don't need 20; but nobody runs 20 mesmers either. My zergs run as much if not more weavers than chronos most of the time. Honestly as much weavers as spellbreakers quite often. If they don't care about who's on the backline; maybe the backline isn't actually doing their job. Because as far as I can tell, this is an incredibly range-dominant meta and weaver was the best cleave in zergs by a long shot even prior to this bug. That said it does look like things will change; but you can't complain about weaver being bad prior to the nerf + bug. It was very strong but to some extent balanced; but as it usually goes with weaver most players dont have the skill to be effective with the class.

@Absconditus.6804

I'm sorry but staff weaver isn't actually good in roaming. I know, shocker. Being able to kill players roaming says nothing about the viability of a class. I can win games on full nomad res thief in PvP; that doesn't mean it's OP or good or anything along those lines.

If you're familiar with maths, put it this way : For every player roamer regardless of build, there exist players who will die to said roamer. Your entire argument is pretty questionable.

Without lavafont depending on meteo numbers, staff weaver won't remain meta in WvW. That said current iteration of staff ele is unfun even for someone who's played it for thousands of hours. I'd rather play a meta without weaver, worst case another class than see how they butchered the class from revolving around DPS and intensive kiting and rotations to the meteor one-trick-pony which is actually more effective than before.

[Absconditus.6804]

@Etheri.5406 said:@"Absconditus.6804"

I'm sorry but staff weaver isn't actually good in roaming. I know, shocker. Being able to kill players roaming says nothing about the viability of a class. I can win games on full nomad res thief in PvP; that doesn't mean it's OP or good or anything along those lines.

If you're familiar with maths, put it this way : For every player roamer regardless of build, there exist players who will die to said roamer. Your entire argument is pretty questionable.

I almost read that as "I find it difficult to roam with Staff, so I will therefore say it's not good." Kinda like most Revenants complaining about the Renegade Shortbow, which takes some time to get used to, but isn't bad. Did you watch the video of the guy who's roaming around on his Staff Weaver? Are you saying his damage numbers are poor? He's not even using Lava Font nor Meteor Shower, but are still blowing up 15k HP single targets instantly through the use of clever combos. Is his survivability when chased by 6-7 people, then turning on two Mirages who are persistent, and killing them, poor? How about while fighting a seemingly annoying Ranger and a Warrior at the same time? It's clear that not all of the players he is fighting are poor players. If you pay attention he is avoiding high bursts through evades and dodges and creating space using fields with the Staff. Those very same numbers can be applied in a WvW squad scenario, can't they? Only made more potent due to a pretty much 100% Fury and 25 Might stacks upkeep. It's not like he's using anything weird for his equipment; Marauder mixed with Berserker and Valkyrie to have both offense and survivability. Kinda like most classes will build in WvW if they want to be effective. A little bit of a mixed setup to not hit like a noodle, and to not get shattered like glass. I think it's unfair to your class to even say that Staff isn't good for roaming, when clearly it can be. And it sure is not bad for WvW squads with it's long range, hard hitting skills and great support potential. Staff Ele has always been welcome in EU WvW squads, even with Firebrand and other specializations existing, not once have I seen someone wrinkle their noses at one joining a squad or tried to ridicule them for existing, unlike other classes and specializations.

Regardless if you find Staff Weaver to be good or not for roaming, nothing justifies the bug with Meteor Shower to remain unfixed for long. It's broken. It does not compare to a Thief, a Mesmer or anything else being able to single out one disadvantaged target with exceptionally high burst damage, not when it's a 1200 range 360 radius AoE skill that can instantly down multiple people at the same time and there are multiple bandwagon bug exploiters on most servers who are just on Elementalist to abuse the bug for their server's benefit, all casting it from the safety of their WvW squad and making it near impossible to avoid. It's not fun, for either side. The only ones maybe having fun are the Elementalists seeing numbers they shouldn't be able to see on this one bugged skill. It's this boring stalemate where nobody want to engage on the other side sometimes. At least on EU, we are used to aggressive engagements. This weekend has been incredibly boring and overall just frustrating. It's as bad as Glamour Mesmer used to be back in the early days of WvW when Confusion bombing took out entire enemy WvW squads.

[SoV.5139]

@Voltekka.2375 said:Heal ele is dead. Seriously, dead. Noone plays that after fb. Ele come for the dps they provide

Once again - irrelevant in a non sustain meta. FB are relevant in the current META for their ability to spam stab, and reflects.

Heal ele is still good as a buffer and AE condi cleanse for those still caught up in the inertia of the previous condi scourge META. Now that almost everyone is up to date and one shot kills are more frequent, complaining about which sustain build is best is like arguing over monster trucks at an Indy 500 race. AKA irrelevant.

[Etheri.5406]

@Absconditus.6804 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:@Absconditus.6804

I'm sorry but staff weaver isn't actually good in roaming. I know, shocker. Being able to kill players roaming says nothing about the viability of a class. I can win games on full nomad res thief in PvP; that doesn't mean it's OP or good or anything along those lines.

If you're familiar with maths, put it this way : For every player roamer regardless of build, there exist players who will die to said roamer. Your entire argument is pretty questionable.

I almost read that as "I find it difficult to roam with Staff, so I will therefore say it's not good." Kinda like most Revenants complaining about the Renegade Shortbow, which takes some time to get used to, but isn't bad. Did you watch the video of the guy who's roaming around on his Staff Weaver? Are you saying his damage numbers are poor? He's not even using Lava Font nor Meteor Shower, but are still blowing up 15k HP single targets instantly through the use of clever combos. Is his survivability when chased by 6-7 people, then turning on two Mirages who are persistent, and killing them, poor? How about while fighting a seemingly annoying Ranger and a Warrior at the same time? It's clear that not all of the players he is fighting are poor players. If you pay attention he is avoiding high bursts through evades and dodges and creating space using fields with the Staff. Those very same numbers can be applied in a WvW squad scenario, can't they?

Regardless if you find Staff Weaver to be good or not for roaming, nothing justifies the bug with Meteor Shower to remain unfixed for long. It's broken. It does not compare to a Thief, a Mesmer or anything else being able to single out one disadvantaged target with exceptionally high burst damage, not when it's a 1200 range 360 radius AoE skill that can instantly down multiple people at the same time and there are multiple bandwagon bug exploiters on most servers who are just on Elementalist to abuse the bug for their server's benefit, all casting it from the safety of their WvW squad and making it near impossible to avoid. It's not fun, for either side. The only ones maybe having fun are the Elementalists seeing numbers they shouldn't be able to see on this one bugged skill. It's this boring stalemate where nobody want to engage on the other side sometimes. At least on EU, we are used to aggressive engagements. This weekend has been incredibly boring and overall just frustrating. It's as bad as Glamour Mesmer used to be back in the early days of WvW when Confusion bombing took out entire enemy WvW squads.

I clearly state that it's broken and should be fixed. My issue was that your argument is awful. I know EU meta better than you; especially if your server in your banner is correct.

"bandwagon bug exploiters" lul.Valkyrie if marauder exists LUL.

Sorry you tell me I can't play staff ele, tell me how the meta is played then claim staff ele is good in roaming and the players he fights are decent. There is no point in discussing "meta" if your baseline level of play tells you staff ele is a fine roaming class. "In EU, we are used to aggresive engagements" yeah really showing me you grasp the meta. The only aggresive pushes are done by groups that are vastly stronger or because the comms don't know any better.

And again, not a single person that dies in this video is decent at the game. Sorry.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

@Egorum.9506 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@"Absconditus.6804" said:Yes, Meteor Shower is a Staff skill that is currently bugged. What does weapon swapping have to do with anything? You got some defensive stuff on the Staff too, like Burning Retreat. You can use gear like Marauder mixed with Berserker and Valkyrie that doesn't get you instantly blown up when people look at you the wrong way. You can still use a selection of instant Breaks Stun utilities that also have Blocks, Invulnerability, buffs and so on forth. You can use traits that helps with your survivability like Tempest Defense from Air giving you Shocking Aura if you get disabled or Final Shielding from Arcane which gives you Lesser Arcane Shield and blocks up to 3 attacks over the course of 5 seconds if you get below 50% health. Again, the first video has an Elementalist roaming around only using Staff. He's not swapping the weapon, yet he's not immediately dying. He is using a build that lets him perform while also letting him survive. The majority of the stronger skills I listed are not related to weapons. What I listed are also not all the build options for Elementalists, obviously, it was a small selection to the argument that Elementalists only have long cast skills to Break Stun, block, evade or gain invulnerable state with. Again, check the videos, then look at their linked builds, take some inspiration from those if you think you need Meteor Shower to remain bugged in order to perform on Elementalist.

I think its people calling for a nerf that just stand in the AoE that is the problem, not only that but its bugged and people want nerfs lol, they mean weapon swapping because Obsidian Flesh is a Focus skill so if your staff you dont have access to that, Mist form is on a 40 sec CD and I tend to avoid using that unless its totally needed, with tempest defense and Lesser Arcane shield I cant speak for all eles but i woudnt be running both Air and Arcane since you will lose out on Fire traitline, so you will get either Air or Arcane not both Eles have Burning Retreat and some nice little defenses (Like most classes do) either way, MS is bugged and will get its due fix,

To everyone complaining about it not being fixed just yet..just be patient, you woudnt like to be at work on your scheduled days off either

I'll say it again for the people in back:

that's with protection on. 3k armor, you can even see the max corruptor's fervor stacks. what was the counterplay there? don't be within 1200 range of an ele at any time? lolWell there was I think about 3 people in the radius of that meteor therefore each meteor will hit those 3 people since Meteor shower hits 3 per target, there Is no point complaining when it's bugged but when it's fixed you can roflstomp on your scourge for 3 months again you could also dodge when you see that BIG aoe circle appear since you were not on your zerg when you got hit

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@aspirine.5839 said:9k meteor does not sound that much to be honest. It is slow, it is highly telegraphed and easily dodged. I was not hit once by a meteor the whole evening as backliner.

The problem with that argument is that necro circles are also highly telegraphed and easily dodged. Yet people die all the time. How weird.

I think many oversee that the Scourges also got buffed around 30% steamrolling another zerg without weakening them before is in most cases impossible now except you get them by surprise or you other number them by far. This is what most people get pissed on Zerg fights got shorter and shorter with this many dmg the outcome is decided even before they finally clash into each other.

Ele are only a part of it Scourge will stay and I don't think it will change much also Deadeye with rifle got also a buff and Rangers tooIn PvE the Deadeye has now 40k dps (with all boons) problem with this is they are 'only' single target damage

Which means we have still a lot more range and aoe dmg then before

[Darknicrofia.2604]

1 cast of meteor shower can down a superior catapult/ram

sieging has become completely pointless

running into choke points has become suicide simulator wars 2.

"but that one time a thief killed my zergling build while i was respawning so this is totally fine"

[Turkeyspit.3965]

I was tired of scourges carpet bombing and melting zergs while running at them, and I wanted that to stop. I guess I got my wish. All hail our new Elemeteorist overlords!

[totaloverride.3240]

why do they even play with those things?! dmg, cool downs, durations...they should set them once and let go... so we can focus on class we like most...some classes are boosted beyond belief, some are ruined...next time/next update next random group of classes goes "up", the others go "down"...

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Not only the damage, but the amount of meteors is also lolworthy, getting hit by 8 meteors in 2 seconds.Flame Trap got hotfixed for way less.

[Voltekka.2375]

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@aspirine.5839 said:9k meteor does not sound that much to be honest. It is slow, it is highly telegraphed and easily dodged. I was not hit once by a meteor the whole evening as backliner.

The problem with that argument is that necro circles are also highly telegraphed and easily dodged. Yet people die all the time. How weird.

I think many oversee that the Scourges also got buffed around 30% steamrolling another zerg without weakening them before is in most cases impossible now except you get them by surprise or you other number them by far. This is what most people get pissed on Zerg fights got shorter and shorter with this many dmg the outcome is decided even before they finally clash into each other.

Ele are only a part of it Scourge will stay and I don't think it will change much also Deadeye with rifle got also a buff and Rangers tooIn PvE the Deadeye has now 40k dps (with all boons) problem with this is they are 'only' single target damage

Which means we have still a lot more range and aoe dmg then before

Scourge was buffed? How? If anything, it was nerfed bigtime with Dhuumfire icd nerf. Patch notrs from July 10th (Dhuumfire trait)This trait now has a cooldown when used in conjunction with the scourge specialization. This cooldown is set at 5 seconds in PvP and WvW and 3 seconds in PvE.PvE part was changed the following day, to 1 sec icd.

[Daishi.6027]

@"Karl McLain.5604" said:when possible.

Could you give us some insight on what that specifically implies? I think a lot of us are generally in the dark and it creates a lot of unnecessary tension with design and balance philosophies vs player base. You guys clearly recognize a problem, why is it not possible to just tweak the numbers and drop a patch?Could you please make us more aware of what criteria needs to be met?Even if it's as simple as: "we want to talk indepth on how to change it, and see if a flat shave is how we want to go about it."?Or as technical as: "Dropping patches is expensive, so we try to do a broad sweep of fixes."

I'm personally in no hurry to have this changed, but I hope you could give some clarity.

[Tinnel.4369]

If you think this isn't shaping the way competitive modes are being played you're completely out of touch.

Again, as I keep saying, your customers are watching ANet.

[Absconditus.6804]

@"Etheri.5406" said:I know EU meta better than you; especially if your server in your banner is correct.How do you know that though? Based on the server I am playing on? Explain to me how that makes you supposedly know more and not potentially equal amounts about how EU players tend to play. Do you know me? I don't know you. While SFR are no longer the top dogs, mostly because our stronger guilds jumped to other servers that were paying them in Gold (and yes, that genuinely used to happen — not sure if it still does), our history shows that we have been a very capable server with 94 out of 143 matches finishing in first place. Something the other servers never came close to on the EU side. In our current matchup we are honestly getting farmed a lot, facing both Vabbi and Whiteside Ridge, but we are still managing to hold our own from time to time when outnumbered. With this awful bug in effect too. I've been playing since 2012, I have seen various shifts in the meta. I'm no self-proclaimed expert, but I have a fair understanding of what people want in a squad and how players tend to play — at least from the perspetive of the matchups we have had throughout the past 6 years. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you know nothing, I'm just questioning how you know more instead of equally as much."bandwagon bug exploiters" lul.What else would you call the excessive flock of Elementalist players out of the blue? It certainly can't be because of the bug, can it? What else will you call these types of players? I'm not calling genuine Elementalist players bandwagon bug exploiters, I am calling those jumping on it just to take advantage of the bug, advantageous exploiters.Valkyrie if marauder exists LUL.Yes, at some point you may not need more Precision, e.g., I cap out with Fury going up to roughly 120% Critical Chance if I don't switch out a few pieces that has Precision with pieces that don't. Marauder will be a waste when I can get higher Power, Vitality and Ferocity out of say Valkyrie. If you are so experienced in the game as you want to tout your own horn with, then you should really know that without trying to ridicule it with a LUL.Sorry you tell me I can't play staff ele, tell me how the meta is played then claim staff ele is good in roaming and the players he fights are decent. There is no point in discussing "meta" if your baseline level of play tells you staff ele is a fine roaming class. "In EU, we are used to aggresive engagements" yeah really showing me you grasp the meta. The only aggresive pushes are done by groups that are vastly stronger or because the comms don't know any better.I didn't tell you that you can't play Staff Elementalist, I said it almost sounds as if you don't have experience roaming with it so you will call it bad just because you personally feel uncomfortable using it. I would reckon you could get great at it tbh., I know nothing about you the same way you know nothing about me. You can obviously roam and perform using Staff if you know how to play with it well. Belittling a guy who has made a video that are actually impressively making it work saying all his targets are garbage players are just rude. Are other setups more efficient, I kinda think so, but if that guy can manage to roam around and stay alive with Staff when outnumbered and focused on, you can likely manage to set up a build to use when running Staff with a WvW squad and be able to not die immediately while still dealing respectable damage.And again, not a single person that dies in this video is decent at the game. Sorry.I think you need to get off your high horse and stop belittling someone for performing well with a weapon you consider sub-par and unusable in a roaming setting. Why do you feel the need to ridicule and be rude? Maybe I came off as rude, I didn't mean it that way.

[Egorum.9506]

11k views, 300 comments, game breaking bug for an entire game mode, still no fix.

Pve game mode gets bugs fixed inmediately. Look at the number of players doing raids compared to wvw, then fix your fucking shit.

[Klypto.1703]

Darn I thought asteroid shower was going to be nice to have now we go back to just weak meteors bleh.