Essence Manipulation Mastery

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

more gimmick fights...…

[Gop.8713]

@Fueki.4753 said:But, will people actually make builds factoring in the essences?

It's mentioned in the dev post discussing the essences, so my guess is they developed them with the intent of benefiting players who were willing to do so . . .

I'll probably just run my usual PvE build. I hope those essence beams aren't mandatory to fight the coloured enemies.

Without actually knowing how it's going to work there's no way to say, but I'm guessing that adjusting your build based on which essence you're using will be beneficial, but not required for success. So I imagine most players wouldn't bother. It could just end up being a fun little wrinkle for ppl who like to min/max . . .

[Cuks.8241]

I like map specific masteries. They can go over the top with new mechanics and not break balance on other maps.

[Vince.1695]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"Fueki.4753" said:But, will people actually make builds factoring in the essences?I'll probably just run my usual PvE build. I hope those essence beams aren't mandatory to fight the coloured enemies.

Likely the ones who used ARCDPS to micromanage the smallest build change to be its own separate build template. You know, the ones who had 20+ chrono builds for raids.

I don't think that people bothering much about adjusting to open world content. The main use of those numerous builds are for min maxing in instanced content that really (or at least to some extent) challenges the player and the group. Open world content doesn't follow that way at the moment and has rarely done so in the past (Triple Trouble, new Teq in the first weeks of his release as exceptions).Additionally the buffs are too unimpressive and it definitely seems like a "nice to have" rather than a "must have" like the mastery in Siren's Landing. It can be needed to unlock seals & doors but not to be necessary for a fight or anything related because the big majority of casual players will storm the forums and complain.

The new mastery won't even be needed for Strikes because it's already said in the announcement that those essences can be used to be strong enough in low-mans and overcome the encounter. That equals to: 10 men groups won't struggle at all with or without the masteries.

[mindcircus.1506]

@coso.9173 said:reminds me a bit of the aegis system in secret world. hopefully it'll be well received, unlike that one.

That system killed the game for me. It was absolutely terrible and I would be very suprised to see the anet devs follow suit.

[Linken.6345]

@Vince.1695 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"Fueki.4753" said:But, will people actually make builds factoring in the essences?I'll probably just run my usual PvE build. I hope those essence beams aren't mandatory to fight the coloured enemies.

Likely the ones who used ARCDPS to micromanage the smallest build change to be its own separate build template. You know, the ones who had 20+ chrono builds for raids.

I don't think that people bothering much about adjusting to open world content. The main use of those numerous builds are for min maxing in instanced content that really (or at least to some extent) challenges the player and the group. Open world content doesn't follow that way at the moment and has rarely done so in the past (Triple Trouble, new Teq in the first weeks of his release as exceptions).Additionally the buffs are too unimpressive and it definitely seems like a "nice to have" rather than a "must have" like the mastery in Siren's Landing. It can be needed to unlock seals & doors but not to be necessary for a fight or anything related because the big majority of casual players will storm the forums and complain.

The new mastery won't even be needed for Strikes because it's already said in the announcement that those essences can be used to be strong enough in low-mans and overcome the encounter. That equals to: 10 men groups won't struggle at all with or without the masteries.

Are you sure about that?This sounds like it will be mandatory to get all rewards.

Players will also find special chests in Strike Missions and the open world that can only be opened with the Essence Manipulation Mastery the chest is weak to.Bigger chests will need the second-tier Mastery to open, so you’ll want to upgrade your Essence Manipulation for maximum potential rewards!

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/developing-essence-manipulation/

[Vince.1695]

@"Linken.6345" said:Are you sure about that?This sounds like it will be mandatory to get all rewards.

Players will also find special chests in Strike Missions and the open world that can only be opened with the Essence Manipulation Mastery the chest is weak to.Bigger chests will need the second-tier Mastery to open, so you’ll want to upgrade your Essence Manipulation for maximum potential rewards!

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/developing-essence-manipulation/

Well, mandatory for getting all the rewards != mandatory for beating the encounters.

But if you were right it would be a disaster for everyone out there admiring & wishing more challenging content because it would mean that they abandoned fractals and raids or at least disregard this content even more than they did in till today. I go ahead and say I lose every respect towards those players favoring challenging content in the past and accepting or better praising such a cheap replacement tactic by the company. Nobody can tell me that people could be that desperate. Maybe it's only my opinion and of a few combatants but seriously I don't let them get away with that.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Just because one completes the Mastery Tracks for some benefits doesn't mean that one needs use all benefits.I'd guess some players would finish the Mastery Tracks for different reasons: to have the highest possible Mastery level, to open Chests, and/or to be able to use Essence Manipulation, etc.

[Tyncale.1629]

One of the reasons that people do not "Learn To Play" is because the loot is bland in this game.

I enjoy GW2 for its beautiful and alive world, the Dynamic Events that manages to bring together groups of people for a short while, and the artistic style. I also like the combat; for most content combat feels pretty powerful and easy to use.

For difficult content you have to delve deeper into the Combat system, and then you you can do amazing things, especially when working together with a group. My biggest problem with this type of combat has always been, that the Loot in GW2 simply is not enough incentive for me to try harder and go through this trouble. This is the reason I do not Raid: I just do not care enough about the skin or the utility of statswapping.

And the fact that loot sucks in GW2 again has to do with the fact that there is no vertical power progression of your character. ALL the loot you get, in the end, is to improve some QoL feature or get some skin, or maybe some utility. And that is fine with me, but this also means I can not get exited about a feature that lets you work harder for.....what? Work harder in RL, earn more, get a better life. Work harder in GW2, get yelled at and be able to show some skin that STILL looks worse then what you can buy in the BL store.

Let's face it, those improved chests that you can only loot having the right Mastery will not give you a chance on something unique, or something that makes you powerful. It will give you a yellow Unid, some extra map currency, some Bloodstone dust and a 0.0000000000000000001% chance on a stupid infusion effect.

Compare all this with getting a good group together in Everquest, work your way to the deepest part of a Dungeon and manage to keep up with the respawn against mobs that can kill you in three hits, with death being a real setback: if you managed that, you could walk away as a GWAMM after a few nights, with Bronze armor and unique and powerful weapons that would actually change the way you could play. Well, it used to be like that. :)

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Jojo.6140" said:Meh, i dont like the idea. If it were just for permanently buffs you receive via the mastery system it would be finde, but having it temporary sounds like a major pita. I hope its not mandatory for content, like "oh you wanna do the meta? Well, have fun farming 30 mobs beforehand for the buff". Would also mean that you cant quickly jump in in an activity. Changing characters? Have fun farming 30 mobs again.

Yeah, they seem do be designed purely for mass mob grinding and nothing else. Which potentially may be great for people farming metaevents, but would probably be quite useless for any more laid-back experience.

Notice, that a quite similar mechanic was used in Siren's Landing, and it didn't really work out. I wouldn't expect better results this time either.

Still, i do like that the devs decided to give us some info beforehand. It's still a long way before we might get a proper communication, but that's definitely a step in right direction.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:But, will people actually make builds factoring in the essences?I'll probably just run my usual PvE build. I hope those essence beams aren't mandatory to fight the coloured enemies.

Likely the ones who used ARCDPS to micromanage the smallest build change to be its own separate build template. You know, the ones who had 20+ chrono builds for raids.Even those people didn't try to go for such a level of build micromanagement for

open world

. And the system is quite unlikely to be available in raids.

[Carcharoth Lucian.1378]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Vince.1695 said:I understand this more like 10 player groups will still breeze through it without any hurdles at all and ambitious players have to put self-restrictions on them to experience any challenge comparable to solo/duoing dungeons/fractals with records or low-manning raids. Sorry, but this is a cheap excuse for me and explicitly shows that they gutted resources for said content. That's not content, that's cheap.

From the wording, it seems like the new Strike Missions will be actual 10-man content (unlike the first one) and you will be able to low-man them if you have the new mastery, meaning it will give you a significant boost in performance. Obviously the best players will be able to low-man it without the mastery, but hopefully the bosses will be balanced around having 10 average players and not 2 or 3. I also hope the mastery isn't going to be a simple dps boost in strikes

They also said :

The next episode of The Icebrood Saga will introduce another tier for each essence, for a total of three tiers each. Trust me—you’re going to need the extra power.

So, if i understand correctly, strike missions from episode 1 will be even easier after the release of episode 2 and the third mastary tiers...

I don't have much hope about it...will see...

[Jimbru.6014]

This new mastery thing is just more forced repetition and change for its own sake. and IMHO yet another good reason to go check out the Camelot Unchained beta.

Meanwhile, auto-target still picks up out of range obstructed trash mobs instead of the champ that's right in front of me hitting me.

I don't want to be forced to play the same kitten things over and over again to unlock a pointlessly complex chain of masteries. That's not a game, that's a job, and Anet is obviously just trying to keep us busy. The game already has more than enough mechanics to manage; what it needs is story and depth. I have no interest in raids, strike missions, PVP, or other 1337 gaming better than thou garbage. I want what we already have to kitten WORK!

[Hashberry.4510]

@Jimbru.6014 said:This new mastery thing is just more forced repetition and change for its own sake. and IMHO yet another good reason to go check out the Camelot Unchained beta.

Meanwhile, auto-target still picks up out of range obstructed trash mobs instead of the champ that's right in front of me hitting me.

I don't want to be forced to play the same kitten things over and over again to unlock a pointlessly complex chain of masteries. That's not a game, that's a job, and Anet is obviously just trying to keep us busy. The game already has more than enough mechanics to manage; what it needs is story and depth. I have no interest in raids, strike missions, PVP, or other 1337 gaming better than thou garbage. I want what we already have to kitten WORK!

Unfortunately, what we already have 'works' in the sense that the whole edifice is there to draw customers to the gem shop. Its a great deal in that respect, but I think it was made clear that is all the game is for.

[Fueki.4753]

@Astralporing.1957 said:And the system is quite unlikely to be available in raids.We have seen that the Kodan Strike mission (which presumably replace raids going forward) features at least one colour.At least to me, those giant Kodan looked somewhat red.

[Cristalyan.5728]

@"Dante.1508" said:Sounds great on paper, until the maps die.. then the "team" stuff become unplayable....Sounds like three new grinds to "collect" stuff because we "need to" to pass the content with a 15min buff, really 15min why? And all this is suppose to be fun..

@"Jojo.6140" said:Meh, i dont like the idea. If it were just for permanently buffs you receive via the mastery system it would be finde, but having it temporary sounds like a major pita. I hope its not mandatory for content, like "oh you wanna do the meta? Well, have fun farming 30 mobs beforehand for the buff". Would also mean that you cant quickly jump in in an activity. Changing characters? Have fun farming 30 mobs again.

@"Jayden Reese.9542" said:Of course its one map or all these pve new saga zones as you get the buffs off certain mobs. The strikes will be harder I'm sure forcing us at 1st to farm 30 mobs 4 the buff prior to entering. We obviously wont be bringing this buff to the already released strike beginner one the released

It seems that we will have to farm (even this word, existing in the Anet announcement for a game having anti farming measures sounds .... nonsensical) 30 mobs. In translation - we should be well prepared before having fun. This is a total disconnection from what the spirit of the Manifesto of this game is.

What worries me is this quote from the ANet announcement:A lot of team members contributed feedback, and we spent months designing, implementing, playtesting, and iterating to bring Essence Manipulation to life.

In conclusion, not only one or very few ANet developers, but most of them are totally disconnected from the Manifesto. Why is this? The answer is simple - we can find it in the same announcement:

I started with ideas and inspiration from games that use the old “rock, paper, scissors” approach to their balance and progression systems. For example, players want to obtain “rock” and level it up so they can defeat powerful “scissor” creatures. Games like the Monster Hunter™ series even incorporate this into their gear and weapon progression.

So, this is not something for GW2 - this is an old idea, used by single players console games. Why is "Monster Hunters" nominated? Because it was (it is) famous for its compulsion loop. This is its core feature. What is a compulsion loop? Wiki says:

"A compulsion loop or core loop is a habitual chain of activities that will be repeated to gain a neurochemical reward such as the release of dopamine.[1] Compulsion loops are deliberately used in video game design as an extrinsic motivation for players"

Used in games, OK, but for what? Let's see - "Compulsion loops can be used as a replacement for game content, especially in grinding and freemium game experience models."

Now everything is clear - at least for me.

• The developers team did not understand the Manifesto (I suspect they don't even know it exists). So, we must work to prepare for .... fun?
• They use techniques developed in 2004 for single player console game. How this will work in a multiplayer environment? I don't know - but this "innovative" idea is already older than GW1+GW2. It was avoided by the GW2 first developers.
• Most probably, this .... Mastery will be used as a content replacement, keeping the players busy doing the same thing. That means - bye bye real content. I started to question if even the story will be even at decent level.
• As a bonus (for ANet, not for players) the compulsory need of some players to have the build based on this Mastery stored may push them to buy Templates.
• Another bonus - by allowing this Mastery in core Tyria the players not owning PoF may be persuaded to buy it - well, it is not important the impact on the low level players playing in low level map.

By loosing so many old developers this year, GW2 did not loose skill or work power - I'm pretty sure the new developers are skilled and willing to work for the game. But GW2 lost a lot of the spirit making it so different from the other games. The actual Mastery proves this - none even considered that .... outdated Manifesto.

[Hashberry.4510]

Come on the manifesto was a marketing tool, at best a long since abandoned aspiration. None of your complaint is a new thing to this game.

[Perisemiotics.4579]

@miraude.2107 said:I'm leery because reading that post reminded me of the Siren of Orr mastery, something I did NOT want to see repeated again in game, especially if this is going to be map specific. I'll see how it pans out when it is live and I can fiddle with it but it feels like a mechanic like this...well, belongs in a raid.I understand they couldn't make it something like the Central Tyria/HoT/PoF mastery lines because this is, in a way, optional content but this just feels like it's gonna be a mess for old and new players alike along with seeing a giant uptick in AFK farming and frustration over failed events being blamed on players for not 'training the right one first.'

aww man the Siren of Orr one was awesome, gorgeous and actually meaningful for some of those annoying meta bosses (and could be shared to other players). From what's in the post this one will expand over the Saga maps and let's not forget, this is just tied up to the Spirit of Raven - I assume further down the line the other Spirits will have their own tracks but the idea of just stacking stats to counter stronger enemies feels very bland to me, I liked the PoF and even LW masteries better where they actually changed movement and exploration. The idea of a special skill isn't new at all, in fact it was the very first one we got all the way back in Bloodstone Fen...

[Vince.1695]

@Perisemiotics.4579 said:aww man the Siren of Orr one was awesome, gorgeous and actually meaningful for some of those annoying meta bosses (and could be shared to other players).

The annoying bosses that got molten within one minute or less with people in proper gear? The essence on Siren's Landing was and is pointless and wasn't used regularly by players at all.

[Fueki.4753]

@Cristalyan.5728 said:I started with ideas and inspiration from games that use the old “rock, paper, scissors” approach to their balance and progression systems. For example, players want to obtain “rock” and level it up so they can defeat powerful “scissor” creatures. Games like the Monster Hunter™ series even incorporate this into their gear and weapon progression.I actually interpreted this as elemental weaknesses, not as the compulsion loop mechanics.Gear progression probably was just mentioned in the Monster Hunter example because you can change your some weapons' elements by upgrading.But in that case, Pocket Monsters would have been a better example, as the starters are the same Red/Blue/Green triangle.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:But, will people actually make builds factoring in the essences?I'll probably just run my usual PvE build. I hope those essence beams aren't mandatory to fight the coloured enemies.

Likely the ones who used ARCDPS to micromanage the smallest build change to be its own separate build template. You know, the ones who had 20+ chrono builds for raids.Even those people didn't try to go for such a level of build micromanagement for

open world

. And the system is quite unlikely to be available in raids.

I was referring to the type of player rather than a specific player’s although I probably could have been more clear about that. Yes, it wouldn’t be available in raids whether it be because it’s disabled or there just isn’t an option to build up stacks. Based on the description, it wouldn’t be available in the rest of the hame anyway since the stacks are based on specific enemy types only available on the new map(s).

[ZDragon.3046]

@GWMO.4785 said:Im really curious what went through their head when they where thinking about this. As far as i have understand, now we're getting multiple mastery tracks... for a single map use? I mean masteries like gliding or mounts are really appealing since they are nice/useful across the entire game. But others that are designed to just use in a single maps, never appealed to me. In fact i find this actually stupid since they mostly function similarly to what we already had. Ill give a few examples:

• Thermal Propulsion, Oakheart's Reach, Nuhoch Wallows essentially act like a fast(er) travel system through a map
• Counter Magic, Forsaken Magic repels/redirects enemy attacks.
• Itzel Leadership, Exalted Purification, Nuhoch Proving allows you to engage special foe's and collect loot.
• Exalted Gathering, Volatile Magic Resonance gives you extra resources

And the Essence manipulation doesnt feel any different... I guess what i am trying to say is that most of these masteries (especially the ones from LWS's) feels duplicated in just a slight tweaked way. And there for basically unnecessary. I'd really like to get a PoV from a dev on this tbh. (@Clayton Kisko.5207)?

Counter Magic was actually used in a lot of areas and is still used in some areas long after its release this mastery was actually well designed along with spectral aid which is in effect anytime you go down in most maps.

To be honest we need more masteries like these ones ^Will have clear cute use in the new maps but also hold some use in other areas of the general game.

I would love to see new masteries that grant the player new utility, elites, or heals once unlocked that way they would be good for current map design but could technically still be used in other areas of the game with mild or moderate in some cases still decent effectiveness.

This could also be their way of adding class unique mastery skills to the game you have 2 mastery skills from two different professions that at base do the same goal in achieving the map mechanic but also hold a slight difference in potential based on the class its used on.

That said im not a fan of what they are proposing with this new mastery because it looks like its tied to a single map/ strike

They have also mentioned needing a mastery to open chest which right away puts an ill taste in my mouth based on the drop rates of the khan ur chest in Bound by Blood..

[nosleepdemon.1368]

They talk about making the new system easy to understand and clear to the player. And then immediately give the "elements" the completely arbitrary names "resilience", "vigilance" and "valor". It is not at all obvious why one should be weak against another, and this leads to further confusion with respect to questions of why the creatures are of a particular elemental persuasion, or exactly what colour represents "vigilance" compared to "resilience" and so on.

ANet claim to have drawn inspiration from the likes of Monster Hunter, yet apparently didn't actually understand the system one bit.

[Fueki.4753]

@ZDragon.3046 said:They have also mentioned needing a mastery to open chest which right away puts an ill taste in my mouth based on the drop rates of the khan ur chest in Bound by Blood.In that regard, I wonder how they'll handle mounts.Having a mastery (or even three) to regain the ability to open all chests.And then Masteries for regaining the ability to use mounts in the cold weather, possibly one mastery per mount.

[miraude.2107]

@Perisemiotics.4579 said:

@miraude.2107 said:I'm leery because reading that post reminded me of the Siren of Orr mastery, something I did NOT want to see repeated again in game, especially if this is going to be map specific. I'll see how it pans out when it is live and I can fiddle with it but it feels like a mechanic like this...well, belongs in a raid.I understand they couldn't make it something like the Central Tyria/HoT/PoF mastery lines because this is, in a way, optional content but this just feels like it's gonna be a mess for old and new players alike along with seeing a giant uptick in AFK farming and frustration over failed events being blamed on players for not 'training the right one first.'

aww man the Siren of Orr one was awesome, gorgeous and actually meaningful for some of those annoying meta bosses (and could be shared to other players). From what's in the post this one will expand over the Saga maps and let's not forget, this is just tied up to the Spirit of Raven - I assume further down the line the other Spirits will have their own tracks but the idea of just stacking stats to counter stronger enemies feels very bland to me, I liked the PoF and even LW masteries better where they actually changed movement and exploration. The idea of a special skill isn't new at all, in fact it was the very first one we got all the way back in Bloodstone Fen...

Pretty much what @Vince.1695 said. Proper gear made the whole thing moot and worthless. The buildup of the skill, hoping to get to the boss in time to activate it, etc. And in Bloodstone Fen, we got Counter Magic something that's still used wildly through the maps (bandit executioners as an example) along with Spectral Aid. We actually need more masteries in the vein of that than what they are offering right now. This could have been a buy with currency thing the way the gliding skills for Bloodstone Fen were added (Focused Magic, Unstable Magic Volley, Pacified Magical Storm, Dog Fight or Flight, Ride the Ley Line) and still be a cool new thing along with a temporary sink for volatile magic instead of this. Again, I won't know if I'll like it until I fudge with it but honestly. They need to revisit what they did with Bloodstone Fen and just start locking skills behind volatile magic and having the mastery be something more interesting than a glorified Ooze pit mechanic.

[ZDragon.3046]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:They have also mentioned needing a mastery to open chest which right away puts an ill taste in my mouth based on the drop rates of the khan ur chest in Bound by Blood.In that regard, I wonder how they'll handle mounts.Having a mastery (or even three) to

regain

the ability to open all chests.And then Masteries for

regaining

the ability to use mounts in the cold weather, possibly one mastery per mount.They could have done something with the use of season 3's Kodas flame for that to be honest Or they are planning a new mount in the future that can be used in this region. The could have dove into charr lore and used flame legion magics to solve this problem also.....

Lots of creative things here that could also be used in other areas of the game but i mean.... you know