Why is Retaliation Hitting for 300 a Tick?

[K THEN.5162]

What's the point of fighting if you're just going to kill yourself while attacking?

[Junkpile.7439]

+when you attack you are full of condis and enemy doesn't even have to do anything. :D

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

WRONG that is below 300 a tick. Jokes aside it means that person's power is roughly around 3000 (with might/bloodlust this is achievable). The formula is calculated here. (0.050 * Power) + 133 damage at Level 80.

D:

[Gwaihir.1745]

Over 2.8 seconds you took about 1.6k in retal damage. Thats hardly lethal, if you cant recover from that rate of damage either your build is bad or you need to get better at the game. You dealt more damage to them while being immune to damage yourself using blur. Do you see the issue here?

[K THEN.5162]

@Gwaihir.1745 said:Over 2.8 seconds you took about 1.6k in retal damage. Thats hardly lethal, if you cant recover from that rate of damage either your build is bad or you need to get better at the game. You dealt more damage to them while being immune to damage yourself using blur. Do you see the issue here?

I took 1.6k retal damage in 2 ticks of blurred frenzy, there are 8 ticks in total meaning that i took 1.6*4 = 6.4k damage from my own attack which is VERY lethal. Blurred frenzy lasts 1 second so i took all that in 1 second not 2.8.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

retal being on par with blurred frenzy seems like a problem.

[Gryxis.6950]

@Gwaihir.1745 said:Over 2.8 seconds you took about 1.6k in retal damage. Thats hardly lethal, if you cant recover from that rate of damage either your build is bad or you need to get better at the game. You dealt more damage to them while being immune to damage yourself using blur. Do you see the issue here?

So according to you if you use an evade skill that deals damage you should take the same amount of damage you deal ? uh

Also obviously he's going to take more damage after this, not just from retaliation, and this is not even close to the most egregious example, it was just to illustrate how much a retal tick deals. If he hit the whole blurred frenzy on this two guys, he would take about 4.5k damage in one second which seems a lot to me coming from a single boon that can be spammed. Also, power mesmer has a bad sustain and cannot recover from 1.6k damage ins 2.8s, does that mean you think power mesmer as a whole is bad ?

[Dawdler.8521]

I would have loved to see a video of this. It would probably tell a much more complete picture.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Bring boon removal.

[Syrus.2174]

I've been pointing out that retaliation is a broken mechanic for quite some time by now:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/87062/retaliation-should-be-removed

Sadly I forgot to get more screenshots of taking massive retaliation damage today, as standard screenshots don't capture arcdps sadly.Happened a few times, it really feels like zergs run retaliation more often since the patch, or it's just the servers we're up against.It's really stupid, when you drop one bomb and die from retaliation alone, what are you supposed to do if there's no boon cleanse around, not every class can do it. It's one thing to have to learn your class to play right so you don't die, but when you can't attack because it will just straight up down you, there's little you can do. It's not a skill issue, but a broken mechanic. The enemy doesn't have to react, they just have to keep the boon active.

[KrHome.1920]

Retal counter: get more health!

On 20k health the effect of it is almost not noticeable.

Marauder mesmer has 22k health in wvw... and mesmer has boonstrip options and kite options while retal is up.

[RisenHowl.2419]

it's there to limit how much damage you can deal to how well your healers can compensate. looks like it's working as intended

[DeceiverX.8361]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:retal being on par with blurred frenzy seems like a problem.

Always has been this way. Just people actually did enough damage to make the trade worthwhile.

It's almost like they nerfed power damage across the board for the core game without considering its game-wide implications such as retal and weakness, and for the most part, it looks like the disparity between builds caused by expansion powercreep has remained the same because they just nerfed everything instead of targeting the broken things...

Right, cause they did.

[Shroud.2307]

@Dawdler.8521 said:I would have loved to see a video of this. It would probably tell a much more complete picture.

::Unaware pug minding own business::! A wild 1 shot Mesmer appears !Mesmer uses 1 shot combo from stealth. It's super effective!::Mesmer can't quite 100 - 0 pug::-> Blurred FrenzyUnaware pug uses passive Retaliation. It's super effective!-> Mesmer flees.

This dude's whole existence in WvW is basically this.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

@"Syrus.2174" said:I've been pointing out that retaliation is a broken mechanic for quite some time by now:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/87062/retaliation-should-be-removed

Sadly I forgot to get more screenshots of taking massive retaliation damage today, as standard screenshots don't capture arcdps sadly.Happened a few times, it really feels like zergs run retaliation more often since the patch, or it's just the servers we're up against.It's really stupid, when you drop one bomb and die from retaliation alone, what are you supposed to do if there's no boon cleanse around, not every class can do it. It's one thing to have to learn your class to play right so you don't die, but when you can't attack because it will just straight up down you, there's little you can do. It's not a skill issue, but a broken mechanic. The enemy doesn't have to react, they just have to keep the boon active.

Broken is an understatement.. Try dropping traps as a DH and watch what happens when the group runs over them, instantly vaporized, regardless of how far you are away. I remember dropping traps in front of QL's door on EBG, then teleported back to the keep to grab supply. The zerg ran over my traps and I was downed in the keep which had to have been a good 15,000 to 20,000 units away. I'd love to hear Anet's rationale behind this. This isn't even a problem when compared to ranged classes who deal big AoE damage.

Easy fix would be to scale retal down to work in a 400 range around the person and remove it from all classes except thief (because thief logically would make the most sense to return damage upon a hit). Then let the thief in the group spam retal on their party members.. that is if the group really wants retaliation that bad that they would take a few thieves with them.

[Dralor.3701]

Was skeptical but retail is nuts. :(

[Infusion.7149]

You're on a mesmer. If you were meteoring on an ele or barraging on ranger it would be even worse.

[Junkpile.7439]

Anet really have revolutionize gaming. Other games you try to avoid damage, but here you try to take damage.

[SWI.4127]

Never gave it much thought but yeah maybe it does need to be toned down now after all the other damage has been toned down.

[Lightning Specter.9568]

300/tick is nothing when you're in a 1v1. when a group of 10 has retal then you can possibly die from it and lets not forget that retal that we have today has been heavily nerfed. retal when it was not nerfed, one full cast of blurred frenzy or any other skill with built in multi hits can instantly delete you, even when not using multi hit abilities retal was a real threat when you were just AA. wish i had a recording of me being a retal mes tank and watching people delete themselves when retal wasn't nerfed.

[ollbirtan.2915]

And I thought I've seen everything ...now ppl are calling to nerf retail.....What's next? Nerf armor/weapons for all classes?

[Syrus.2174]

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:Easy fix would be to scale retal down to work in a 400 range around the person and remove it from all classes except thief (because thief logically would make the most sense to return damage upon a hit). Then let the thief in the group spam retal on their party members.. that is if the group really wants retaliation that bad that they would take a few thieves with them.The problem with making retaliation melee focussed is that melee classes already get enough punishment.Not sure about giving retal to thieves though. Sure, would make them a bit more useful in zergs, but I doubt it would change them into a really zerg-fitting class.

Every time I hit a zerg which has retal on it, retal's damage makes up a significant percentage of all the damage received. Now, I play classes where I try to avoid receiving damage as best as possible, so other damage being as low as possible is usually a given. But is having unavoidable damage thrown around so freely really a healthy thing in a competitive game mode?Still don't see the reason for rewarding facetanking.

[LetoII.3782]

@Junkpile.7439 said:Anet really have revolutionize gaming. Other games you try to avoid damage, but here you try to take damage.

Finally, the facetank meta comes to the foreAnd you guys thought clump up and spam was as tictacal as it could get

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

it's not that broken. atm we have silly condispam that even shots down two minstrel FBs within a short time while entering a choking point (while yes, that was the rest of the groups [new player wave 2 stronk] fault fornot pushing, while bubble etc was up etc but yeah - it still only took like 5 seconds till u cannot keep yourself/yourselves up, against only liek 15 condifieldsh*tspammers...) but no, lets better call out ret for brokenness, or corona burst of holos. neither is holo prime meta nor is thief/mesmer needing to hold a special place in the format.

ret is least needed for trsh like thieves, who got yet big parts of the most broken abilities, like stealth - revealcleanse - great mobility - big quick dps, etc, but if some bulky slow class like fb has it and the ret reflect on it makes your cheesy poking char run, then houston got a problem?

[cobbah.3102]

I love my retal ,but think it needs a buff.