Is heart of thorns meant to feel this hard as a new player?

[Etria.3642]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@GummyBearSummoner.7941 said:If anything it’s not even close to being as difficult as it used to be.

It's still a big leap I'd say.

@DisabledVelociraptor.7865 said:The leap in difficulty from the personal story to heart of thorns is insane... forgive me for complaining here but this is kitten near unenjoyable..

At first, yes. After a while, it will help you train your player skills and getting

a lot

better, which will prepare you for other endgame content. :)Most of the new players never reach that point. They simply quit.Just saying.

@"bOTEB.1573" said:And this is why HoT maps are constantly full compared to PoF.Challenging content (map-wide events) is just better and healthier for the game and the player base.It's not the challenge. It's the rewards. PoF lacks the draw the HoT metas have.Notice by the way, that the few PoF metas that do exist, are either completely unrewarding, harder on average than HoT ones, or both.

PoF metas are now very much rewarding, and a few are easy enough bots are taking advantage. Getting a hero's choice chest from there is now not only an amalgamated but also 3 rare unids PLUS chances at tasty things that sell for bunches. And now they are attracting the necessary core group of players who know them so it makes it much easier for new folks following along. BUT that said HoT metas have the treasure mushroom advantage: you can try your luck for invis footwear while waiting for the metas. PoF you pretty much either stand around waiting or maybe do a race.

I do like that they are different but also HoT with mounts and all masteries is an entirely different and much more enjoyable beast than without. Add in a skyscale and woah. Easylife.

[Teratus.2859]

@"DisabledVelociraptor.7865" said:The leap in difficulty from the personal story to heart of thorns is insane... forgive me for complaining here but this is kitten near unenjoyable.. I wish there was some kind of difficulty setting for instances because I just want to experience the story without feeling like i'm being completely crushed by everything

HoT wrecks melee focused glass canon builds..

Was designed that way since the meta at the time of it's release was pretty much "YOLO swag Zerker iz da best" and those kinds of players got absolutely nuked in HoT XDEven after the nerfs it's still pretty challenging for some zerker glass canon playstyles to get through it easily.Basically those builds are useless without support against anything that can sponge against their DPS.. main reason I always disliked melee glass builds.

The main things I find overly useful in HoT are.Ranged play, great for avoiding damage ergo staying alive.AI allies, Pets, minions etc are great for taking aggro away from you.Tankier stats, Enemy sponges your damage so do the same to them.. they largely dont heal or have much in the way of sustain where as you can so you will win, some can though so bring interupts and learn attack animations.Sustain/Survivability.. this should be a basic factor most people build for but the original Vanilla game really doesn't promote it by preparing you for content where this is extremely useful.There are ways you can build decent damage builds with lots of sustain/survivability potential without crippling your damage to a point you might as well be a tank.

HoT unfortunately hits you so hard it will make you think about your build and gear.. but it's very easy to get stuck in your ways with a single build because it's worked for you all the way through the vanilla game and LW2..This also has the side effect of people getting to HoT without a very good understanding of how to build their character or how many ways they can play their class.This isn't a failing of HoT though it's a failing of the vanilla game that many have complained about and begged for fixing for many years.

There's plenty of people who will be happy to help you though so don't get discouraged.If you share your class, build and playstyle too im sure a lot more people can help you out with build advice etc.

[mindcircus.1506]

@"battledrone.8315" said:nope, remove the insane rewards, and it would be a ghost town in a week.There are already far more rewarding activities in this game than HoT metas.They are however the easy loot.The content in HoT is hard, but the metas where the "insane rewards" are have become autoattack spamfests that are so on farm that they rarely fail.You could certainly lower the rewards at Auric Basin and Chak Gerent and still have them packed.Just look how many people show up at World Boss trains for a rare and 50 silver for pressing 1 every 15 minutes or so.

[Cuks.8241]

Also polls on this forum always put Hot at the top of the favorite expansions.

[battledrone.8315]

@Cuks.8241 said:Also polls on this forum always put Hot at the top of the favorite expansions.

i guess you werent there at launch. it made many people quit the ENTIRE GAME. and what kind of mmo FORCES you to revamp your character and playstyle?if its in the game, it should be viable for everything.

[GummyBearSummoner.7941]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Cuks.8241 said:Also polls on this forum always put Hot at the top of the favorite expansions.

i guess you werent there at launch. it made many people quit the ENTIRE GAME. and what kind of mmo FORCES you to revamp your character and playstyle?if its in the game, it should be viable for everything.

But look at it now. It’s still very active & enjoyable. Those who quit and didn’t give it a chance was there own loss at such a great expansion. Compare to PoF I prefer HoT.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Teratus.2859" said:HoT wrecks melee focused glass canon builds..

This isn't true at all. Playing in HoT zones with "melee glass cannon" builds is very much viable. The difference is, HoT wrecks players that mindlessly damage. Instead players are expected to use the active combat system of the game to their advantage, use active defenses, blocks, in vulnerabilities, dodging and crowd control. Most HoT mobs have much reduced health than the Risen in Orr, meaning burst-y well played builds are much more effective than tank-y builds.

As an example, with my Berserker Thief I can press F1 to use Steal on a Smokescale, it will teleport me, daze the Smokescale for 1 second, preventing it from using its leap ability or smoke field, then I will follow up with Cloak and Dagger (Dagger 5) and kill the Smokescale with a single Backstab. In other words: F1-5-1 dead Smokescale with zero chance of retaliation. Can't get any easier than that.

It's not a matter of using tank-y builds, but rather as a player using more active defenses and/or crowd control.

[Cuks.8241]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Cuks.8241 said:Also polls on this forum always put Hot at the top of the favorite expansions.

i guess you werent there at launch. it made many people quit the ENTIRE GAME.

and what kind of mmo FORCES you to revamp your character and playstyle

?if its in the game, it should be viable for everything.

What? Every mmorpg with every major patch?

[Dante.1763]

@Cuks.8241 said:Also polls on this forum always put Hot at the top of the favorite expansions.

To be fair, the players who didnt want the game to be harder probably quit/dont come to the forums and so are no longer taking part in polls. Theres a reason LS3, 4, Pof, and even 5 are toned way done from HOT. ANET has their own metrics and tracks things far better than any one person on the forums can. They know how much new content affects the playerbase far more than anyone here.

The Polls on the forums represent a minority of the playerbase and they should never be used for any kind of representation when it comes to what the majority want.

[Cuks.8241]

@Dante.1763 said:

@Cuks.8241 said:Also polls on this forum always put Hot at the top of the favorite expansions.

To be fair, the players who didnt want the game to be harder probably quit/dont come to the forums and so are no longer taking part in polls. Theres a reason LS3, 4, Pof, and even 5 are toned way done from HOT. ANET has their own metrics and tracks things far better than any one person on the forums can. They know how much new content affects the playerbase far more than anyone here.

The Polls on the forums represent a minority of the playerbase and they should never be used for any kind of representation when it comes to what the majority want.

Fully agree with polls.But forum whiners are even worse representation of anything because they will spam countless of whine posts while other just play and ignore.I actually remember the last poll, I think it was Hot vs Pof and Hot was winning (not by much) and most of the posts below were QQ Hot hard QQ.

[Teratus.2859]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Teratus.2859" said:HoT wrecks melee focused glass canon builds..

This isn't true at all. Playing in HoT zones with "melee glass cannon" builds is very much viable. The difference is, HoT wrecks players that mindlessly damage. Instead players are expected to use the active combat system of the game to their advantage, use active defenses, blocks, in vulnerabilities, dodging and crowd control. Most HoT mobs have much reduced health than the Risen in Orr, meaning burst-y well played builds are much more effective than tank-y builds.

As an example, with my Berserker Thief I can press F1 to use Steal on a Smokescale, it will teleport me, daze the Smokescale for 1 second, preventing it from using its leap ability or smoke field, then I will follow up with Cloak and Dagger (Dagger 5) and kill the Smokescale with a single Backstab. In other words: F1-5-1 dead Smokescale with zero chance of retaliation. Can't get any easier than that.

It's not a matter of using tank-y builds, but rather as a player using more active defenses and/or crowd control.

I wasn't specifically talking about general mobs, but vets, elites, champs hero points, meta events etc as well.There's a good few that can still wreck melee focused glass canons, specially if they are alone.. and at launch pretty much most things did as that was the Meta and the expansion was designed to be difficult for a majority.

The game has also changed a lot since HoT came out, core classes have been buffed in some areas.. traits have changed and merged.. same for e-specs too and survivability and sustain have improved quire a bit on a number of classes since HoT came out as well.

Plus there are more stat sets, a number of expansion releases ones can be accessed through the TP pretty cheap these days as well.Sigils and Runes have changed too.There was little to no chance of you being able to get Vipers of Marauders gear pre HoT for a good while after HoT came out.. had to play HoT to get that stuff.But now you can pick up recipies on the TP and craft yourself a set as soon as you hit lvl 80, long before you go into HoT maps.

Lots of little things which have contibuted to HoT getting easier over time, as well as player skills improving too.It's easy for us older players to go back to HoT even with gimmick builds and not have any trouble with most things because we know them and how to fight them.For new players it's still pretty jarring when the difficulty spike hits them and they only have the core story experience to go on.. to this day it does not prepare them well for HoT.

[Tiilimon.6094]

think of it as a huge dungeon and hot makes more sense.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Yes.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Cuks.8241 said:Also polls on this forum always put Hot at the top of the favorite expansions.

i guess you werent there at launch. it made many people quit the ENTIRE GAME. and what kind of mmo FORCES you to revamp your character and playstyle?if its in the game, it should be viable for everything.

What the actual...?

Yes, if the game locks you into rigid templates like some MMOs do, then it makes sense for it to be viable. But with a free form system you have the opportunity to create a trash build. It's still technically viable, just trash tier.

[mikansei.5742]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:And this is why HoT maps are constantly full compared to PoF.Challenging content (map-wide events) is just better and healthier for the game and the player base.

If that were actually true, Serpent's Ire would be the most popular map meta in the game (and Wildstar would still be going strong).

In reality, though, rewards have an enormous impact on which metas are done. AB meta isn't that challenging beyond the "herding cats" aspect of coordinating pugs - but boy, it sure does have a vault full of loot at the end.

[Khisanth.2948]

@Donari.5237 said:

@XatraZaytrax.2601 said:The only ones I hate are the snipers. They seem to have an unnatural ability to get you no matter how you move, their trails last a long time, and then if you face many .... ugggg.

Use to hate the smoke dogs until someone pointed out how to easily best them. Wish I would have known sooner.

Maybe it is a bit harder, but you learn which enemies to run past -- looking at you mushrooms -- cause they aren't worth fighting, and which are worth taking on

Might help the OP to get some basic how-to-fight-HoT-mobs tips for beginners, so here goes.

Snipers: Eventually you get the mastery that lets you see them 100% of the time. Until then, be alert for a red target circle over your head. That means a sniper has acquired you. Strafe left or right to reduce the chance you will be on the red line when it appears, since they shoot where you are when they acquire. Maybe move forward or back at the same time in case they are shooting from the side. If you see a red line in your way, dodge-roll over it.

Pocket Raptors: squish them with aoe.

Smokescales: Kite them out of their circles of invulnerability. They want to melee you, they'll come out if you move away enough. Then you dps them until they deploy a new circle, rinse and repeat.

Bristlebacks: Have some way to absorb or reflect missiles while you cc to wreck the blue bar. DPS like crazy when the blue bar is gone.

Mushrooms: Range the bastages down. Dodge or reflect any ranged they toss at you. It's not easy or fast (I haaaaate the mushrooms), but ranged is your safest bet. Still not easy, just less likely to have you eating dirt in seconds.

Chak: Varies with type of bug, read the text under their target bar to see what they do. Mostly stay out of the blue goo and dodge-roll to shake it off your heels when it does cling to you. There is a mastery to shake it all off in one dodge, but that's typically the very last mastery people bother to unlock in HoT afaik. So dodge as much as you can without using up your dodge energy for emergency use. The one chak that needs further explanation is the Bracer. Little flying one that orbits another chak with a light beam between them. It's protecting the other chak, and the only way to stop it is to cc it to wreck its blue bar. Stuns, knockbacks, roots, dazes, anything that hurts blue bar, use it on the bracer.

There are probably more mob types (like variants of frogs) to discuss but that's what I have first draft off the top of my head.

or ... just play a reaper :p

@Rogue.4756 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Rogue.4756 said:HoT was never hard. Perhaps you're playing above your experience level.

It depends. Many hero point are not soloable or would require extremely specific builds. Same for events. It is a major difficulty hike over anything before it.

Is it hard for a veteran player? No.

Mostly no. I have soloed all hero points except the Balthazar hp. I imagine there are plenty of players way better than myself who can even solo that one. I'm not a great player and I solo ALL of gw2.

Actually you don't need to be great for Balthazar as long as you are fine with cheesing it and it can take a while.

Depending on the state of the fight there is also the stealth option.

[DMO.4158]

I dont mind the challenge or the gimmicky enemies. I just cant stand the terrible confusing vertical layout and the sheer lack of guidance in this zone. The map is virtually useless as a navigation tool.

I have a hard time justifying the HoT mastery gimmicks though because that investment doesn't benefit me once I abandon the zone.

Path of fire was easily a better experience. NOT only were maps better designed but the mastery point gimmicks weren't locked inside a terrible zone I never want to play again. My investment into the mounts gets to come with me.

A large part of the 'new player' difficulty problem stems from the game doing a counterproductive job of distributing proper rewards and thus, teaching the player what stats are beneficial.

I find it astonishing that by the time you hit level 80 you're wearing a hodge podge of ridiculous gear with a stat spread that makes no sense. And this is by design. Fresh level 80 necromancer for example, and the game gives me toughness and condition gear??? No wonder I can't kill anything.

The player doesn't actually get to learn what stats are beneficial until they learn it from an external source. The game can't even keep up with it's own meta.

[battledrone.8315]

@GummyBearSummoner.7941 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Cuks.8241 said:Also polls on this forum always put Hot at the top of the favorite expansions.

i guess you werent there at launch. it made many people quit the ENTIRE GAME. and what kind of mmo FORCES you to revamp your character and playstyle?if its in the game, it should be viable for everything.

But look at it now. It’s still very active & enjoyable. Those who quit and didn’t give it a chance was there own loss at such a great expansion. Compare to PoF I prefer HoT.

i gave it plenty of chances. how many mouthfuls do you need to take , before you realize, that you dont like the taste?pof has plenty of issues too, but at least i knew where i was going in that one

[battledrone.8315]

@Cuks.8241 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Cuks.8241 said:Also polls on this forum always put Hot at the top of the favorite expansions.

i guess you werent there at launch. it made many people quit the ENTIRE GAME.

and what kind of mmo FORCES you to revamp your character and playstyle

?if its in the game, it should be viable for everything.

What? Every mmorpg with every major patch?

wrong, im still using the same builds on almost all my DC characters. 7 years in , and almost max gear rating now.same in STO. the forums always light up in rage when they try to do something like that.

[battledrone.8315]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Cuks.8241 said:Also polls on this forum always put Hot at the top of the favorite expansions.

i guess you werent there at launch. it made many people quit the ENTIRE GAME. and what kind of mmo FORCES you to revamp your character and playstyle?if its in the game, it should be viable for everything.

What the actual...?

Yes, if the game locks you into rigid templates like some MMOs do, then it makes sense for it to be viable. But with a free form system you have the opportunity to create a trash build. It's still technically viable, just trash tier.

so, what would happen if they buffed it to be GOOD? think about it....scary stuffit is only trash, because THEY WANT IT SO

[kuteykathy.8123]

@TwoGhosts.6790 said:HoT is still, by far I think, the best content Anet designed (not including the lamest boss fight conceivable).

HoT was where I first started learning how to play this game properly. It killed me over and over again, and it taught me that I was lazy, and that I didn't really understand what my skills did or how my build worked.

It was a watershed moment in my relationship with this game.

I hated it, and I loved it.

My first foray into Tangled Depths was terrifying. It is a fiendish, brilliant map. Anet have never managed to recreate that sense of exploration or jeopardy, but doing so just once was an achievement.

Stick with it, and follow some of the good advice in this thread. HoT remains some of the best content in the game.

This reply accurately sums up my experience quite well too :smile:

I don't play in open world PvE much anymore, but I still find myself returning to HoT maps periodically to learn a new profession better

[AliamRationem.5172]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@"Cuks.8241" said:Also polls on this forum always put Hot at the top of the favorite expansions.

i guess you werent there at launch. it made many people quit the ENTIRE GAME. and what kind of mmo FORCES you to revamp your character and playstyle?if its in the game, it should be viable for everything.

What the actual...?

Yes, if the game locks you into rigid templates like some MMOs do, then it makes sense for it to be viable. But with a free form system you have the opportunity to create a trash build. It's still technically viable, just trash tier.

so, what would happen if they buffed it to be GOOD? think about it....scary stuffit is only trash, because THEY WANT IT SO

You're really not thinking this through.

I am not saying that any particular trait line in GW2 is trash. Certainly, we can point to individual traits that are trash. But the whole idea of our trait system is to allow players to find synergy between traits to produce the outcomes they're looking for. What you call "forcing you to revamp your character and playstyle" is nothing more or less than that. That you produce a trash build does not mean that the system is trash.

[Cuks.8241]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Cuks.8241 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Cuks.8241 said:Also polls on this forum always put Hot at the top of the favorite expansions.

i guess you werent there at launch. it made many people quit the ENTIRE GAME.

and what kind of mmo FORCES you to revamp your character and playstyle

?if its in the game, it should be viable for everything.

What? Every mmorpg with every major patch?

wrong, im still using the same builds on almost all my DC characters. 7 years in , and almost max gear rating now.same in STO. the forums always light up in rage when they try to do something like that.

Well I haven't played those 2 so I can't comment if this is viable or not but what is the point of a build then if you have the same for 7 years? They might as well just remove that part of the game if it's meant to be static forever. That is the point of the option to tailor you build, so you know, adapt it to the situation.

[Dayra.7405]

@"battledrone.8315" said:wrong, im still using the same builds on almost all my DC characters. 7 years in , and almost max gear rating now.

Even more worying for me is: "even after 7 years only almost max gear", not a game for me :)

[Runiir.6425]

@"wolfyrik.2017" said:Pocket Raptors?!

The horror....

The horror

I walked into HoT as a dual Axe warrior...it took me awhile to understand why anyone was afraid of them."Hit skill 5 and watch them die...why is everyone crying about these things?!"THEN I walked in as a sword/board guardian...and died horribly...so horribly...I finally understood.