Why bother designing something nobody will craft? Can anyone explain it to me?

[Shikaru.7618]

Craftable means RNG is completely taken out of the equation and a much more obtainable goal than praying for a lucky drop. Right now you can farm Chak Gerant 1000 times and be no closer to getting that drop than when you started (other than the small amount of gold you get trying to save up 20K) which is a much longer road. Because all of the components are easily obtainable in the Frost Infusion, the market is completely controlled by the players. It is currently 5000 gold because people are willing to pay that much for the components. If people didn't want to pay 10 silver per Jormag blood, they simply wouldn't until the price lowers to a range where they would. Honestly if you think or actually are a player with 4000+hours with less than 100g to your name, you are doing something completely wrong. Assuming you played nonstop for 4000 hours 24/7 without sleeping or stopping, you would still have played 166 days which in dailies alone would mean you have 333 gold. If you can't control your impulse to buy things or simply do content that rewards decent gold, thats not a game problem.

[Justine.6351]

Someone let me know when my hoard of silver ore is worth something.

[Danikat.8537]

This topic reminded me that since I'm not planning to make the infusion yet I should sell my Shards of Crystalised Jormag Blood now, before they go the same way as Foxfire Clusters, which used to go for about 65s each but dropped steadily until they hit vendor price and now can't be sold on the TP unless you're willing to wait ages.

@"Shikaru.7618" said:Honestly if you think or actually are a player with 4000+hours with less than 100g to your name, you are doing something completely wrong. Assuming you played nonstop for 4000 hours 24/7 without sleeping or stopping, you would still have played 166 days which in dailies alone would mean you have 333 gold. If you can't control your impulse to buy things or simply do content that rewards decent gold, thats not a game problem.

There's a difference between the gold currently in your wallet (which is what was being discussed above) and the total value of your account. I've currently got 76g 50s and 63c in my wallet, but according to GW2 Efficency my total account value is 96,696g 92s 73c. For the two to match you'd have to never spend any gold at all, and I'd argue that's even more a case of "doing something wrong" than not saving whatever amount of gold other players expect you to have on hand at any given moment.

But your account value is irrelevant when talking about buying a new item because most of it is likely to be tied up in items you can't sell, so it's useless when trying to afford something new. This is why GW2 Efficency also displays a seperate "liquid gold" stat, which is the current value of everything you could sell if you wanted to. (For comparison on my account that's 1,507g 68s 77c but I wouldn't be willing to sell all of that in one go.)

[Taril.8619]

It could be worse.

I mean, the +30 Swim Speed Infusion, requires 1,048,576 Swim Speed Infusion +10's (Which are only obtained from doing the Master Diver repeatables which you can get 1 guaranteed Ornate Key a day from the Daily to kill 10 Krait and otherwise it has like a 0.0001% drop chance from random enemies) and 24,245 gold.

It's not even a fancy infusion that gives a cool look either. It just provides a bit more speed to a forgotten part of the game...

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:But right now its over 5000g and that is only likely to go up.

Nope. It'll decrease in price over time.

As more people farm out the materials, more competitition is created on TP prices and prices drop accordingly.

Hence why it's at ~5000g now, when the patch dropped it was sitting ~12,000g due to higher prices of the less available materials.

[Katary.7096]

@Josiah.2967 said:I was expecting this to be a meta map reward. The video was misleading... This is just a huge gold sync, I would rather buy them in the gemstore at this point.

Since you are willing to spend gems on it, why not convert gems to gold and buy the components that way?

[Khisanth.2948]

@knite.1542 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@thehipone.6812 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

Even as a long term goal. 99% of players with more than 4000 hours in this game have less than 100g.Citation?

That statistic is wrong. More like 72.5% of 400h+ players have MORE than 100g (just wallet gold).

https://gw2efficiency.com/account/statistics/statistics.gold

Even still, that site still represents a small portion of the player base.

Citation?

https://gw2efficiency.com/account/player-statistics just add up the number NA and EU accounts which comes out to 283,548According to ANet's previous ads GW2 had something around 11 million registered accounts so GW2E represents around 2.5% of the population. Is that a big enough/good enough sample size? No idea, I am not very good with probability and statistics. :/

However the data is likely to be skewed towards more ... active/dedicated players since those are the people who are more likely to need the tools that the site provides.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Its meant to be a Legendary equivalent infusion, and the Gen2 Legendaries craft for about 4-5kg, Gen1s for 2-3kg.

The cost seems about right considering. I just hope we're getting another Legendary trinket this season (instead of the ring locked behind raids), instead of them rolling out infusions or other upgrades as some kind of replacement.

[Josiah.2967]

@Katary.7096 said:

@"Josiah.2967" said:I was expecting this to be a meta map reward. The video was misleading... This is just a huge gold sync, I would rather buy them in the gemstore at this point.

Since you are willing to spend gems on it, why not convert gems to gold and buy the components that way?

Post the $$$ that would cost and assume I make $100 per hour to create it. Tell me what the real cost is. This is a "minority item" that should not be advertised in marketing material for the area. I feel it was misleading.

[Khisanth.2948]

@Hannelore.8153 said:Its meant to be a Legendary equivalent infusion, and the Gen2 Legendaries craft for about 4-5kg, Gen1s for 2-3kg.

The cost seems about right considering. I just hope we're getting another Legendary trinket this season (instead of the ring locked behind raids), instead of them rolling out infusions or other upgrades as some kind of replacement.

We are getting a legendary aquabreather of course! It's the only slot missing a legendary and to prepare for the underwater dragon we will meet on the way to Cantha. :P

Also the gen2 legendaries are over 2k but less than 3k not 4-5k

Gen1 are less than 2k when crafting them

[Shadowmoon.7986]

This is a better method than to get a chak, queen bee, confetti, cystal, or aurilium infusions. Do 500 north meta, collect 40 stacks of ecto. Time can be reduced by buying materials from other players. I would rather a long term non rng method over a short term rng method.

[Khisanth.2948]

@Josiah.2967 said:

@Katary.7096 said:

@Josiah.2967 said:I was expecting this to be a meta map reward. The video was misleading... This is just a huge gold sync, I would rather buy them in the gemstore at this point.

Since you are willing to spend gems on it, why not convert gems to gold and buy the components that way?

Post the $$$ that would cost and assume I make $100 per hour to create it. Tell me what the real cost is. This is a "minority item" that should not be advertised in marketing material for the area. I feel it was misleading.

Around $270

[Shikaru.7618]

@Danikat.8537 said:This topic reminded me that since I'm not planning to make the infusion yet I should sell my Shards of Crystalised Jormag Blood now, before they go the same way as Foxfire Clusters, which used to go for about 65s each but dropped steadily until they hit vendor price and now can't be sold on the TP unless you're willing to wait ages.

@"Shikaru.7618" said:Honestly if you think or actually are a player with 4000+hours with less than 100g to your name, you are doing something completely wrong. Assuming you played nonstop for 4000 hours 24/7 without sleeping or stopping, you would still have played 166 days which in dailies alone would mean you have 333 gold. If you can't control your impulse to buy things or simply do content that rewards decent gold, thats not a game problem.

There's a difference between the gold currently in your wallet (which is what was being discussed above) and the total value of your account. I've currently got 76g 50s and 63c in my wallet, but according to GW2 Efficency my total account value is 96,696g 92s 73c. For the two to match you'd have to never spend any gold at all, and I'd argue that's even more a case of "doing something wrong" than not saving whatever amount of gold other players expect you to have on hand at any given moment.

But your account value is irrelevant when talking about buying a new item because most of it is likely to be tied up in items you can't sell, so it's useless when trying to afford something new. This is why GW2 Efficency also displays a seperate "liquid gold" stat, which is the current value of everything you could sell if you wanted to. (For comparison on my account that's 1,507g 68s 77c but I wouldn't be willing to sell all of that in one go.)

Yes I know the difference between liquid vs account value. However, the OP made it sound like 5000g item was not obtainable because players with 4k hours dont have the means to get something that expensive. I'm not sure this needs explaining but if the OP finds that they're constantly under 100g liquid, maybe they should stop spending the gold they earn on things that don't bring them closer to the goal of getting an infusion? It's not up to the game to teach basic finance management.

[kharmin.7683]

@knite.1542 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@thehipone.6812 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

Even as a long term goal. 99% of players with more than 4000 hours in this game have less than 100g.Citation?

That statistic is wrong. More like 72.5% of 400h+ players have MORE than 100g (just wallet gold).

https://gw2efficiency.com/account/statistics/statistics.gold

Even still, that site still represents a small portion of the player base.

Citation?

Really? You believe that gw2efficiency accounts for each and every GW2 player? Get real.

[Kameko.8314]

I'm VERY VERY happy about this infusion . Number 1 it is 7k go buy it and is less than any other infusion that has just come out. So those rich can buy.Next if you LOVE IT, go farm your life away be for it and no .00000001% chance and you will never get as a drop.If you hate it - hey doesn't matter , you wouldn't have bought it if it were any other infusion.

Look at chak sac - hahahahahahaha 3 years been doing that shit off and on and yup. Still no egg sac. I do this in drizzlewood for a year and I can get it. Hands down, easy peasy. Don't have to do some worthless effing meta WITH NO LOOT that is relevant (yes you chak gerent).Khan ur? What a stupid joke to get that. 4 METAS just for a .000000000001% chance of getting. You kidding me? Take drizzlewood over that bs anyday.Get the point? I'd rather farm than have a stupid 50+k price tag or .000000001% meta drop.

[skarpak.8594]

@"kharmin.7683" said:Really? You believe that gw2efficiency accounts for each and every GW2 player? Get real.

without anet giving out player statistics saying "even still, that site still represents a small portion of the player base." is just as wrong as saying "this website represents a big portion of the player base". you simply do not know it at all, so everything is just a assumption.

you can make a lot of assumptions which are probably not true but make also a good point. a example: every active player does chak gerent once per day.there are mostly 3 to 5 maps open where people do chak gerent (lets just streamline it for the night). chak gerent comes 12 times a day. a map can hold ~150 players. lets just assume they are always full, even in the night. there is EU and NA.you are looking at 18k players if you take the highest numbers.do the same with the newest map. lets say each meta just takes 1 hour. 12 open maps, both EU and NA per hour with 150 players, 24h a day, EU and NA. your are roughly looking at ~86k players.

now the question: are gw2 efficency numbers really that far off when it comes to active players? for 11 million copys sold (i guess thats basegame + hot +pof, so ~3,6 million players) we have got only a few full maps tbh. even with many not using gw2 efficiency don't forget: gw2 efficiency has a lot of dead accounts and also a lot of players with more then a single account are managing their shit over there.so numbers are there already also way higher per single player.

now, ofc thats all "just an assumption". maybe i am right, maybe i am wrong who knows. but i know one thing: 11 million strong is bullshit. we ain't 11 million, else we would have a lot more servers.

[Kameko.8314]

@Taril.8619 said:It could be worse.

I mean, the +30 Swim Speed Infusion, requires 1,048,576 Swim Speed Infusion +10's (Which are only obtained from doing the Master Diver repeatables which you can get 1 guaranteed Ornate Key a day from the Daily to kill 10 Krait and otherwise it has like a 0.0001% drop chance from random enemies) and 24,245 gold.

It's not even a fancy infusion that gives a cool look either. It just provides a bit more speed to a forgotten part of the game...

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:But right now its over 5000g and that is only likely to go up.

Nope. It'll decrease in price over time.

As more people farm out the materials, more competitition is created on TP prices and prices drop accordingly.

Hence why it's at ~5000g now, when the patch dropped it was sitting ~12,000g due to higher prices of the less available materials.

For now it's dipping, but wait until new map comes and then the shards will spine back up . And then yah, it could get outta hand

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Taril.8619 said:It could be worse.

I mean, the +30 Swim Speed Infusion, requires 1,048,576 Swim Speed Infusion +10's (Which are only obtained from doing the Master Diver repeatables which you can get 1 guaranteed Ornate Key a day from the Daily to kill 10 Krait and otherwise it has like a 0.0001% drop chance from random enemies) and 24,245 gold.

It's not even a fancy infusion that gives a cool look either. It just provides a bit more speed to a forgotten part of the game...

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:But right now its over 5000g and that is only likely to go up.

Nope. It'll decrease in price over time.

As more people farm out the materials, more competition is created on TP prices and prices drop accordingly.

Hence why it's at ~5000g now, when the patch dropped it was sitting ~12,000g due to higher prices of the less available materials.

Yes, well khan-ur was 200g right after the patch dropped too.

I think it's going to go up. As people realize they cannot farm the materials themselves and fewer and fewer people complete this meta and then collect all the shards. Supply will drop but the demand will remain for a long time until people just lose interest. And if you start it but don't finish it, you have wasted everything.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

Another thing, there is no actual steps towards progression while getting an item that is so expensive to make. For this gold value, you can craft multiple legendary weapons or sets of armor and throughout that journey, there are many steps and levels of progression.

If instead of making it a single infusion that you just pour materials into for perhaps months or years until you complete it, they could have made it a 6 step journey and made a legendary infusion. Maybe even tie some parts to achievements or quests like precursor crafting.

For instance, you keep the same recipe but reduce the materials needed by 6x. The infusion would be like a rune. You craft 6 of them and then use them together.

Frost Legion Infusion(1) +5 agony, +1% damage to guards, +5 attribute, Effect 1(2) +5 agony, +1% damage to guards, +5 attribute, Effect 2(3) +5 agony, +1% damage to guards, +5 attribute, Effect 3(4) +5 agony, +1% damage to guards, +5 attribute, Effect 4(5) +5 agony, +1% damage to guards, +5 attribute, Effect 5(6) +5 agony, +1% damage to guards, +5 attribute, Effect 6

With each step of the way providing an additional effect until when all 6 are used, you get the uber frost legion legendary infusion effect.

It would be the same materials, but you could just work partway towards it if you want and you can actually decide it's not worth it halfway though and not have wasted 2500g.

[crepuscular.9047]

start swiping your credit card my boi

[Kameko.8314]

You mean like the bs fractal god/goddess? You realize that is in game right? Instead infusion you get a title (which basically is infusion - a flaunt mechanism). You have to just take it in stride. Ir maybe that 1500+ rank in wvw. Who the fuck is going to do that? If you saw that come out now? Not many , but its there. This is gw2 like or leave

[Hashberry.4510]

Save yer shards, farm the rich.

[Bast.7253]

I don't understand why they ONLY made it craftable. I appreciate that they've seemingly listened to feedback and made it something guaranteed and not just another rng ultra rare infusion, but they've made it so ridiculously expensive that it's still going to be ultra rare.

Why not have multiple sources for it?

1. Craftable.
2. Grindable with strike resources as another long term goal, since strike missions currently only really have the runic armor set as a reward to work towards and it hasn't gotten any updates. - Same could be applied to other rare drops like the combat tonic or khan-ur visage or the ceremonial sets and bone skinner items and the list goes on...
3. Rng drop.

Why give it just ONE source? I'd still probably never get it, as I never will with the crystal/mystic/chak/auric or any other infusion I've wanted, but it seems pointless to be like, "nah, instead of only rng we'll make it only obtainable by crafting and have it be just as expensive as an rng drop..."

You'd argue that having it on strike missions means it wouldn't be able to be monetized with gem to gold conversion, but the easy solution is to make it tradeable on the auction house. That way people that don't want it can work towards obtaining it to sell it.

I don't know. They always do really well at listening to feedback but then do SOMETHING that seems to work against them. At this point I can't tell if it's oversight or if they're just being smart asses. Like, here, you wanted it this way? Fine, we'll give it to you, but we'll make you regret ever suggesting it. lol

Obviously I'm just being a keyboard game director with opinions that are strictly my own, but I've been playing this game for 8 years now?.. and I feel like I've seen some pretty consistently bad design decisions that they SEEM to learn from later but then repeat yet again later on. That's not even commenting on how many systems it seems like they've designed or implemented to improve further development, but never seem to actually improve future development. (Or systems that seems like they might have been pretty taxing to develop and then get abandoned without any attempt to improve or iterate over later.)

Anyway, TLDR: They for some reason have always spent development time on unique skins, tonics, infusions on things that seemingly only a fraction of the playerbase will see. It doesn't seem like a great allocation of resources to me, unless the tiny fraction of players that really want it and are willing to spend their entire paycheck on it makes up for the thousands of people that would spend substantially less. Yet again leaves me wondering how the gauge things like this, or if they do. Are there metrics that reinforce this consistent decision?

The one thing I will say is that it does add long term value to the map, but the issue is that it's so time-consuming that for the vast majority working towards it the content will be so outdated the meta will be difficult to complete by the time people are even getting close to getting this at a strictly casual pace.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@crepuscular.9047 said:start swiping your credit card my boi

But, I don't want the item and even if I did, I could get two or more legendary weapons for the same RL cash. A cost/benefit analysis would never allow me to ever make it anyway.

@Kameko.8314 said:You mean like the bs fractal god/goddess? You realize that is in game right? Instead infusion you get a title (which basically is infusion - a flaunt mechanism). You have to just take it in stride. Ir maybe that 1500+ rank in wvw. Who the kitten is going to do that? If you saw that come out now? Not many , but its there. This is gw2 like or leave

But that is totally different, it does actually give you a benefit in the game other than appearance and there is no real use for fractal relics other than buying ascended gear to salvage.

Btw, I am like r1724 in WvW ;) WvW is far more fun than grinding the North Drizzle meta 10 times a week for a year to get the shards required.

[serialkicker.5274]

Well, I'm more baffled about why would anyone want to wear this cancerous thing even for free :D

[Solanum.6983]

@Mauzi.5892 said:

@Solanum.6983 said:Material/Gold Sink while also being a long term goal. Personally I think it's a huge waste to design something for a very small percentage of the population that will actually try to get it but I get why.

The worst part is that they use said infusion in their video to promote their oh so cool new saga episode... selling people something they will never get.Infusions apart, what did this episode give us exactly?! 10 minutes of story and a long and boring meta extension.

Yeah I don't understand why they'd showcase that over the otter. The Otter is a grind too but not nearly as bad.