WvW Grenade Scrapper Build - Easy DPS, Great Stab, Nice Barrier... Toxic for WvW?

[sneakytails.5629]

On 6/10/2021 at 5:57 PM, Shroud.2307 said:

For myself, build crafting is one of my favorite things to do. If I were limited to the handful of Amulets that PvP has, I'd be done. WvW instantly becomes boring to me because I can't play things I've hand crafted, and that's a huge part of what makes me enjoy it.

 

So much of WvW has been dumbed down, or scaled back. Please don't change this.

Edited June 12, 2021 by sneakytails.5629

[Justine.6351]

Can someone link this build in gw2 skills for me? Want to experience the other side of the fence on this facetanking button smasher.

[Deniara Devious.3948]

On 6/10/2021 at 3:51 PM, Baine.9650 said:

I've been trying out the WvW Grenade Scrapper and honestly, it's been overtuned. 

A great example of what roaming is mostly like on Grenade Scrapper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwqEW8wPkek

I can get barriers covering over 40% of my health during my burst, and 3 - 5 stab when I'm spamming grenade kit.

My grenade kit is hitting for 11k-13k on full crits with full dps runes but I don't even feel squishy at all. Infact, I've been in situations where against clearly unoptimized toons, I've 1v4 or 1v5 and killed every single opponent with grenade kit spam.


Gear standardization is preventing most of this from happening in PvP and I'm wondering if it's time to do the same for WvW. We have full ascended/legendary veterans running around against full exotic toons thinking it's good enough when in reality they're missing out on probably 25~33% of their dps and worse, ~15% of their total stats after including utilities.

Worried about the uneven playing field and how toxic it's making T1/T2 WvW. Is it time for gear/stats standardization across all PvP modes? It seems fair to do so. There's a plus point also where it makes WvW much more competitive overall and gives newcomers at least a fighting chance.

Both holosmith and scrapper are overpowered as are several other elite specs in WvWvW. Core engineer is however among the weakest core specs. As core engineer you need to sacrifice quite a bit of survivability to get such levels of damage. Much weaker access to stealth (no sneak gyro) and stability, no superspeed, no blast/bulwark/purge gyro. Basically you can still do a lot of damage, but you are a glass cannon and even tiny mistake and you are dead, if the enemy knows how to play. Enemy which doesn't know how to play can be beaten with pretty much anything.

I suggest that both holo and scrapper specs should do 15 % less damage using kits (grenade/mortar/bomb etc.). This would not affect core engineer as core engineer has already been overnerfed in many areas.

I really do NOT want gear/stat standardization for WvWvW as that would kill a huge amount of builds and lead to much less build variety. Keep using pve gear, but some rune sets and consumables need to be toned down for WvWvW. Consumables + runes + sigils together can lead to ridiculous amount of condition duration, boon duration or dodges. Or self-generated 20+ stacks of might. These are all toxic.

Ayna
 

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

 

14 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

Can someone link this build in gw2 skills for me? Want to experience the other side of the fence on this facetanking button smasher.

 

I've hardly played it but this is what I was recommended (maybe go down on the mid slot in Explosives if you want). I use full Marauder with Scholar runes; it gets insane barrier, insane superspeed, insane stealth, and nade barrages that hit 11k+ (along with a 2-3k explosive entrance).

 

Build Tab

 

11k

 

[&DQMGGR0aKx8UARQBhgCGAA4TDhNeAV4BgxKDEgAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA=]

 

Edited June 12, 2021 by BeepBoopBop.5403

[Dralor.3701]

Don’t the grenades just get hard countered by all the projectile hate? Thought grenades build haven’t been viable since pre HoT.

[aspirine.6852]

13 minutes ago, Dralor.3701 said:

Don’t the grenades just get hard countered by all the projectile hate? Thought grenades build haven’t been viable since pre HoT.

They were terrible against retal afaik..

[Dralor.3701]

Yeah, that’s right too.

[Shroud.2307]

11 hours ago, Deniara Devious.3948 said:

Both holosmith and scrapper are overpowered as are several other elite specs in WvWvW. Core engineer is however among the weakest core specs. As core engineer you need to sacrifice quite a bit of survivability to get such levels of damage. Much weaker access to stealth (no sneak gyro) and stability, no superspeed, no blast/bulwark/purge gyro. Basically you can still do a lot of damage, but you are a glass cannon and even tiny mistake and you are dead, if the enemy knows how to play. Enemy which doesn't know how to play can be beaten with pretty much anything.

I suggest that both holo and scrapper specs should do 15 % less damage using kits (grenade/mortar/bomb etc.). This would not affect core engineer as core engineer has already been overnerfed in many areas.

I really do NOT want gear/stat standardization for WvWvW as that would kill a huge amount of builds and lead to much less build variety. Keep using pve gear, but some rune sets and consumables need to be toned down for WvWvW. Consumables + runes + sigils together can lead to ridiculous amount of condition duration, boon duration or dodges. Or self-generated 20+ stacks of might. These are all toxic.

Ayna
 

As someone with many hours of experience on core Engineer, I can confidently say that it is not as weak as some people think. Full Grenade meme or zerk builds are extremely high risk, yes, but hybrid or Condition core are perfectly good.

I do agree that it is one of the weakest specs though, I'm not saying it isn't in need of some buffs. Just when I see people talk about core Engi like it's far and away from being viable, I don't think it's entirely true. It's a higher effort spec but not unable to compete. 

If ANet wanted to rebalance Holo and Scrapper so as not to effect core Engi, I'd personally prefer they went a similar route to what they did with Necro.
Give each Grandmaster Trait either a unique or a stronger effect when used with core. Just as an example let's say HGH also grants Fury. Or, Iron Blooded reduces damage by 3% instead of 2% per Boon. That kind of thing. That way it's easier to target balances and it gives core more of an identity since as is, it's identity is pretty much having an elite F5.

Edited June 13, 2021 by Shroud.2307

[santenal.1054]

5 hours ago, Shroud.2307 said:

As someone with many hours of experience on core Engineer, I can confidently say that it is not as weak as some people think. Full Grenade meme or zerk builds are extremely high risk, yes, but hybrid or Condition core are perfectly good.

 

Want to share what those perfectly good builds are?

[frareanselm.1925]

Thats exactly the same like power scourge, tons of barrier and decent burst... is this toxic?

[Junkpile.7439]

Scrapper = scourge, but just little bit more movement skills, blocks, stealth and so on. 🙄

 

 

[Shroud.2307]

2 hours ago, santenal.1054 said:

 

Want to share what those perfectly good builds are?

If you're looking for help, sure. Otherwise, I'm not interested in criticism because I already know they work and understand where they fault. 

As I'd said, I do absolutely think core Engi needs some love, I just don't think it's as weak as it's often claimed to be. The variety of available stats in WvW make it a lot more viable with the right combination, where as in PvP it might be more of a struggle. 

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Its almost as if near perma superspeed, tons of boons, and ranged aoe autos that deal 5k damage is a bit overpowered. But anet has said they like nades the way they are so i guess that means its balanced?

[santenal.1054]

21 minutes ago, Shroud.2307 said:

If you're looking for help, sure. Otherwise, I'm not interested in criticism because I already know they work and understand where they fault. 

As I'd said, I do absolutely think core Engi needs some love, I just don't think it's as weak as it's often claimed to be. The variety of available stats in WvW make it a lot more viable with the right combination, where as in PvP it might be more of a struggle. 

Ow, I was just curious, I wasn't going to point out the weaknesses of your build.  😅 (possibly a lie)

Edited June 13, 2021 by santenal.1054

[Arheundel.6451]

Anet is well aware of OP a build can be, if left untouched for months/years and rather buffed from time to time then "it's intended as a marketing tool to get more people playing that class". Anet is intentionally lowering the skill level required to do good in GW2, the process attracts more people because you all should remember that the biggest portion of the playerbase is the

supercasual working class and unless you have something working for them..the game fails and die

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

It dies just as fast as it can kill someone.

 

You may find high damage builds annoy you, but they aren't over-tuned if they die just as fast as they can kill someone.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

19 hours ago, Dralor.3701 said:

Don’t the grenades just get hard countered by all the projectile hate? Thought grenades build haven’t been viable since pre HoT.

No projectile hate if it comes out of stealth 😉

[lodjur.1284]

3 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Anet is well aware of OP a build can be, if left untouched for months/years and rather buffed from time to time then "it's intended as a marketing tool to get more people playing that class". Anet is intentionally lowering the skill level required to do good in GW2, the process attracts more people because you all should remember that the biggest portion of the playerbase is the

supercasual working class and unless you have something working for them..the game fails and die

What does being casual have to do with being working class?

[Aeolus.3615]

3 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

No projectile hate if it comes out of stealth 😉

 

If this was wroten some months ago i would just say it .. yeah right... playrs with supower powers that make their toons work faster than the game itself....

 

 But....actually ive been in some scrapper or holo strange nade spam + bomb kit situations, sometime i feel players are using package editing and being buffed on top of that by quikcness like some random nade spammer being holo or scrapper kills me down arround 1sec burst where the fight was ok with some other one at that momment like a duel and some one comes and burst u in 1 sec..  with a ton of nades and pbm, otherwise i would doubt that nades out of spam could down some 1 that quickly,  at the beggining  i would not believe that but ive tasted that myself, and my build  is heavy anti range, a simple tab+mousebtn4(its a memory shorcut ive used in many games for some defensive skills so it comes into fast reaction lvl) will deploy a aoe dome any time that will last quite some seconds to avoid the range nades...

 

And also, quickness + superspeed + stealth... all damage will afect target 1st then something will render in the target game client :P. its the same problems when zergs use basiccly all this buffs perma reaplyied theres alot of  animation that wont apear cause client will render toons after the aoe spam, while caster is already out of stelath in the caster client, the more zergy the server is the easier  this happens.

Infuse light in some cases  failed  to convert damage to health even when i notice some sound or out of stealth animation, sometimes the nade impact renders  direct into the toon, all the damage goes between the pre casted activation of infuse like and the skill starts taking effect, wich m8 be arround of to ~1.sec??? but im down before infuse light start to take into action.

 

infuse light on wiki: "Interval" averages 3 seconds; seems to be 3 ± 1 second.  (wich i assume is delay 1sec plus 3 sec converting damage to health)

 

Note: i still believe quite some  players doing package editing  in this game, when a game cant acompany ãnimation in 1v2 just for one player burst.... while ping is stable but client sudently almost frozens theres somethign fishy on the netcode or theres something changes the package itself.

 

Anytime Anet boost Core engie Scrapper and holo will benifit from it, those 2 elite specs mainly scrapper are overtuned, ofering even aoe PERMA superspeed very good quickness, stealth, some, stability, CC condi removal...  well yeah jack of alot of trades possible master of all.

make Holo tied to its for skills, and  overheat alot the more non holo skill it use, the holo rotation with nades and bombkit its stupid damage in terms of possibke  burst speed and damage vs sturdiness.

Scrapper well.. if core is strong scrapper is a beast......

 

IMO overall, stealth builds are a bit broken due how netcode borks up 😞

Edited June 13, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Dralor.3701]

Tried pretty much full zerker with durability runes last night and it seemed fine. Some decent utility and damage.

[derlistigeuhu.1658]

On 6/13/2021 at 12:35 PM, frareanselm.1925 said:

Thats exactly the same like power scourge, tons of barrier and decent burst... is this toxic?

 

Yeah, almost the same, Scourge is just lacking the mobility, utility and all the other stuff that makes Scrapper (and Holo) so strong.

[schloumou.3982]

On 6/13/2021 at 1:09 PM, Shroud.2307 said:

but hybrid or Condition core are perfectly good.

 

If you're looking for help, sure. Otherwise, I'm not interested in criticism because I already know they work and understand where they fault. 

As I'd said, I do absolutely think core Engi needs some love, I just don't think it's as weak as it's often claimed to be. The variety of available stats in WvW make it a lot more viable with the right combination, where as in PvP it might be more of a struggle. 

 

This is just wrong. Cleans sig with 3 removes, alone deletes core condi from WvW. I played it for ages and still do from time to time. Even dropping all cleans and using torment+earth sig you lack pressure. Sure you can stomp baddies with it like with everything in WvW, but if you meet someone that has actually connected his keyboard you will be forced to switch to power/cele on engi. If you are on a EU server you can hit me up with your core condi and can show the problems.

[Ponppis.2537]

VIVA LA AMX
JTM

Edited June 15, 2021 by Ponppis.2537

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 6/10/2021 at 8:51 AM, Baine.9650 said:

Gear standardization is preventing most of this from happening in PvP and I'm wondering if it's time to do the same for WvW. We have full ascended/legendary veterans running around against full exotic toons thinking it's good enough when in reality they're missing out on probably 25~33% of their dps and worse, ~15% of their total stats after including utilities.

Worried about the uneven playing field and how toxic it's making T1/T2 WvW. Is it time for gear/stats standardization across all PvP modes? It seems fair to do so. There's a plus point also where it makes WvW much more competitive overall and gives newcomers at least a fighting chance.

 

No WvW is the endgame content for Guild Wars IMO. It is the the aspect of the game that makes you want to work towards it. It's what provides that drive that MMOs strive for. I need to gear up so that I can be more effective in the fight. The amulet system for instant action makes sense in sPvP. It doesn't fit in WvW. WvW will never be balanced. Why do I say this? Simple it will never be guaranteed a 1v1 fight and even then never one where its the same class and same build unless you had a really lucky lotto ticket day. No if anything just for that alone is why we should have more build options in WvW so that there is always more builds to counter other builds. Which one you happen to find at that point is who knows. I won't comment on the build or not, everyone will have builds they do better or worse against but this shouldn't trigger gear standardization, you remove the point of working toward goals which is what makes these type of game long term. So -1 from me on that point, no to gear standardizations in WvW.

 

Side note: I started WvW at min level and in all white gear. It was rough, but it provided even more satisfaction as I leveled and geared. If this is more of the issue, then they should look to adjust the uplevel process versus removing end game goals. 

[schloumou.3982]

14 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

It's what provides that drive that MMOs strive for. I need to gear up so that I can be more effective in the fight

 

trigger gear standardization, you remove the point of working toward goals which is what makes these type of game long term. So -1 from me on that point, no to gear standardizations in WvW.

 

I'm not particularly for or against gear standardization, but i don't see the point. The goal would be obviously to get better at the game, fight better players, win GvGs/MUs etc. It's not like there is no goal in competitive, more balanced games. But i can see why most WvW players have no interest in that.

Edited June 16, 2021 by schloumou.3982