Willbender Feedback Thread

[Diswan.8156]

The whole williwonka theme is Bad, it feels very rushed and with 0 complexity. I reallly hope they rework it. I have been playing guard since First betas and honestly, vindicator screams guardian. 

 

 

[Caid.4932]

To be fair most people were expecting willbender to be op and incredible after the preview. It was only once the beta started that the problems became clear. I wouldn't bet on vindicator being without its issues.

I guess i have to agree that its hard to see why you'd take it over the other guardian specs at this point. I kind of expect that most of the animation locks and roots will be removed but even then it'd need to have pretty crazy damage to offset the lack of utility that other specs have.

[Diswan.8156]

11 minutes ago, Caid.4932 said:

To be fair most people were expecting willbender to be op and incredible after the preview. It was only once the beta started that the problems became clear. I wouldn't bet on vindicator being without its issues.

I guess i have to agree that its hard to see why you'd take it over the other guardian specs at this point. I kind of expect that most of the animation locks and roots will be removed but even then it'd need to have pretty crazy damage to offset the lack of utility that other specs have.

It's true that there will be issues on every new class for the most part. This does not worry me to much as long as the idea/identity/theme is good and fun to play. The rest can be only number tweeks.

This is actually what worries me for the willbender, i couldnt really see the identity of the class. It seems as it doesnt know if it wants to be assassin, bruiser, Mobile etc. 

They hype both swords, they are Even on the presentation. Yet willbender throws punches and kicks. 

Except for whirling light and the dash animations all the other animations look bad and unimpactful this includes willbender flames, F1 punch, elite skill and most phisical skills.

 

I honestly think the espec was rushed. It seems like most of the skills we're going To go with a "whirlinglight" aesthetic but they didnt have time to implement it. 

 

 

 

 

[Sonork.2916]

Willbender has no new mechanics, you just now get your passives during a short window after activating a virtue, and the actives require so many hits and are so weak they don't even matter.  So you're left with no passives, weak actives and a bunch of new do nothing skills, which are all worse than what guard already has.  Along with uninspired traits that offer the guardian nothing new or interesting to try within the spec.   Leaving you with an Elite Spec that can move slightly better, but has no new mechanics/skills/traits that really matter at all.  (outside shattered aegis meme, which I hope they don't balance WB around.)

Some Ideas:

I'd love to see symbols changed for Willbender, perhaps now centering on the Guardian themself and following them around like a self centered PBAOE, instead of being placed on the ground.  That way it would reward the WB for just being near your enemies.

Or.

What if Willbender's symbols were changed to Marks, like necro staff marks, and instead of doing X dmg over the 3-4 ticks of a symbol it just did 100% of the TOTAL symbol dmg in one single hit + some de-buff effect depending on what symbol/mark was used, which would be diff for each weapon.  This would give Willbender bigger single hits that couldn't just be walked out of, which would fit more of a assassin type spec.  

Also I think adding some taunts and fears would go well with "Willbender" aesthetic, unless it's just a name and doesn't actually rep what the class is trying to be. 

Lastly, the easiest way to improve WB is to make the activation of the virtues really stronk, justice would need really good spike damage,  resolve would need amazing sustain, and courage possibly both.  What i'm saying is, make the activations feel good to use for something other than just movement.  But even with improved virtue actives, it doesn't fix that like 75% of guards weapon skills/attacks immob/slow themselves, and with no new ways to keep anyone still, you're left with getting to your target but with no way to effectively apply your damage.

I dunno, after seeing the latest new Elite specs, I just want Willbender to also be a fun new way to play guardian.   Instead of just relying on the same stuff we've been using for the last 9 years. 

Edited September 18, 2021 by Sonork.2916

[Drael.2015]

Willbender flames being a core mechanic for this class is extremely limited in functionality on moving targets. It's not really playing into the whole PvP spec vibe. Would love it if willbender flames played into the mobility of the spec and the game modes it should be good at.

 

Just too hard to hit players with and drum up hit streaks/tempo. Also the fact that WB has to work perfectly for a 15% damage boost on tempo while catalyst gets a combat 9% all stat buff passive is just a little bit annoying to see.

Edited September 19, 2021 by Drael.2015

[otto.5684]

41 minutes ago, Drael.2015 said:

Willbender flames being a core mechanic for this class is extremely limited in functionality on moving targets. It's not really playing into the whole PvP spec vibe. Would love it if willbender flames played into the mobility of the spec and the game modes it should be good at.

 

Just too hard to hit players with and drum up hit streaks/tempo. Also the fact that WB has to work perfectly for a 15% damage boost on tempo while catalyst gets a combat 9% all stat buff passive is just a little bit annoying to see.

Or you can throw SoJ as DH and get the 15% bonus instantly. 

[Drael.2015]

2 hours ago, otto.5684 said:

Or you can throw SoJ as DH and get the 15% bonus instantly. 

Better virtues and utilities. Also better weapon skills.

WB is a pretty hard sell here.

As for the traits, I understand tradeoffs but the benefits for these traits does not really do anything above what the other classes get and those classes don't have the trade offs. I just think Anet was afraid of making another broken guard spec.

[montecristo.1324]

I have some issues with the willbender flames. To me seems that they designed the idea of the new stances then realized they needed something to help trigger the virtue stances and added last minute something to help.

 

Again I hope it will get better it seems a cool spec and as guard main I want to shine

[DanSH.6143]

3 hours ago, montecristo.1324 said:

I have some issues with the willbender flames. To me seems that they designed the idea of the new stances then realized they needed something to help trigger the virtue stances and added last minute something to help.

 

Again I hope it will get better it seems a cool spec and as guard main I want to shine

I think if the flames followed you (in orbit around you) it would make so much sense. It would also make it very easy to know what stance you're in.

[Raizel.1839]

Despite mobility should be its speciality, each of its skills are 300-600 range. Increase it to 1200.

[Loules.8601]

30 minutes ago, Raizel.1839 said:

Despite mobility should be its speciality, each of its skills are 300-600 range. Increase it to 1200.

Too much for melee spec with multiple movement-abilities and 25% movement speed. Maybe 600-900 max.

[ZICA.7341]

Cmn ANET. Willbender is trash. You guys can do better. My suggestion? Rework traits and utilities. Make virtues interact with utilities. So when you use a virtues, for some seconds, your utilities become different and unique. 

[Saiyan.1704]

6 hours ago, Loules.8601 said:

Too much for melee spec with multiple movement-abilities and 25% movement speed. Maybe 600-900 max.

Willbender performs soooo bad that 1200 range on our skills would be just right lol. Might as well turn the class into a side-point decapper at this point because we're not going to deal more damage than a DH and we're not surviving better on-point than a core bunker guard.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I'm not sure why they changed the virtues to have no passive, except to just make them different.  I mean, seriously: is Willbender OP if they have passive virtues, and then their active skills give a 6 second ability while removing those passives?  

[GoingMenthol.7281]

I didn't feel like offhand sword was that good when I was using it. What if the weapon wasn't offhand sword but hammer instead? Improve Willbender and hammer at the same time, 2 birds with 1 stone

 

Willbender Elite weapon - Hammer - The Righteous Hand

Willbender Flames change - All Virtues create willbender flames that cast a 180 radius ring on where the willbender lands (fire field), instead of cone/line/ring

 

Hammer skills

Skill 1 - Reduced cast time of Symbol of Protection to 3/4 seconds (Could maybe have new fancy looking symbol like what Firebrand has plz ;_;)

Skill 2 - Replace Mighty Blow with Glacial Blow

Skill 3 - No longer a projectile. Shadowstep (600 range) and immobilise target (2 seconds). Can cast a second time to return to previous location if target hit

Skill 4 - Launch is reduced to 600. Gain Alacrity on hit (2 seconds)

Skill 5 - Shadowstep to targeted location (600 range) and create a ward that foes can enter but cannot leave (180 radius)

 

Traits

Major Adept Trait - Nightmare Weapon - While Wielding a hammer, you gain 3 seconds of quickness on hit (12 second cooldown). A portion of strike damage is converted into health (10%)

(Reasoning) - Glacial Heart in the Virtues traitline doesn't benefit the hammer enough to be worthwhile. Hammer is also a slow weapon that would greatly benefit from quickness, and the toughness reduction from Willbender means there should be some way to sustain health to stay alive

 

Minor Master Trait - Power for Power - Gain 240 Power, Concentration, and Healing Power. Allies receive reduced outgoing healing from you (-30%) and boons applied to allies have reduced duration (-30%). Your toughness is reduced by 240

(Reasoning) - Ranger with Beast Mastery can gain 150 to all attributes with Pack Alpha, and 100-225 extra attribute bonus when Soulbeast merged with pet. If the design of the Willbender is to have selfish sustain then it makes sense to have all of this compressed into a single trait that cannot be removed (like Scrapper reduced vitality). Will also reduce the benefits allies receive from Writ of Persistence in order to benefit yourself with boons and healing

 

Major Master Trait - Glacial Heart - Physical skills have reduced cooldown (20%). Inflict strike damage and chill on disabled targets

(Reasoning) - No physical skill trait currently. Most Physical skills have CC, may as well combine Glacial Heart into it

 

Minor Grandmaster Trait - Lethal Tempo - (Righteous Sprint is now combined with Lethal Tempo)

 

Major Grandmaster Trait - Augury of Death - All Virtues are now shadowsteps. Willbender Flames are larger (240 radius) and also inflict cripple and weakness when the number of impacts have been reached (5 hits)

(Reasoning) - 240 Radius makes Willbender Flames in line with Symbols traited with Writ of Persistence. Willbender is about constantly chasing a target, CC bombardment, and damage in an area that the enemy must desperately escape

Edited September 20, 2021 by GoingMenthol.7281

[Falseprophet.1502]

On 9/18/2021 at 12:02 PM, Sonork.2916 said:

Willbender has no new mechanics, you just now get your passives during a short window after activating a virtue, and the actives require so many hits and are so weak they don't even matter.  So you're left with no passives, weak actives and a bunch of new do nothing skills, which are all worse than what guard already has.  Along with uninspired traits that offer the guardian nothing new or interesting to try within the spec.   Leaving you with an Elite Spec that can move slightly better, but has no new mechanics/skills/traits that really matter at all.  (outside shattered aegis meme, which I hope they don't balance WB around.)

Some Ideas:

I'd love to see symbols changed for Willbender, perhaps now centering on the Guardian themself and following them around like a self centered PBAOE, instead of being placed on the ground.  That way it would reward the WB for just being near your enemies.

Or.

What if Willbender's symbols were changed to Marks, like necro staff marks, and instead of doing X dmg over the 3-4 ticks of a symbol it just did 100% of the TOTAL symbol dmg in one single hit + some de-buff effect depending on what symbol/mark was used, which would be diff for each weapon.  This would give Willbender bigger single hits that couldn't just be walked out of, which would fit more of a assassin type spec.  

Also I think adding some taunts and fears would go well with "Willbender" aesthetic, unless it's just a name and doesn't actually rep what the class is trying to be. 

Lastly, the easiest way to improve WB is to make the activation of the virtues really stronk, justice would need really good spike damage,  resolve would need amazing sustain, and courage possibly both.  What i'm saying is, make the activations feel good to use for something other than just movement.  But even with improved virtue actives, it doesn't fix that like 75% of guards weapon skills/attacks immob/slow themselves, and with no new ways to keep anyone still, you're left with getting to your target but with no way to effectively apply your damage.

I dunno, after seeing the latest new Elite specs, I just want Willbender to also be a fun new way to play guardian.   Instead of just relying on the same stuff we've been using for the last 9 years. 

 

 

I really like this symbol idea. Update these symbols, adjust power coefficients, remove the animation lock from the virtues, make willbender flames be a PBAOE, and OH sword changes your main hand's third ability (like weaver dual attack or thief), and I think you will have a good and really decent elite spec.

[Exile.8160]

On 9/9/2021 at 2:05 AM, ardhikaizecson.3697 said:

If the new espec is trying to distance it from how the core class plays, maybe also rework the mainhand sword so it fits better with its offhand? the difference between mainhand and offhand sword skill icon artstyle is also noticeable. i would like for the willbender to use both of the sword in its autoattack or weapon skills.

 

Prob never gonna happen anets is not that consistent, just look at the axe symbol and OG symbols completely diffrent.

[Darkgaiden.3791]

i come very late to this conversation.... i didnt tough our opinion was gonna be taken into consideration, and since i can have an imput in this, ill try to be as deep as i can (considering this is not my mother language could be a problem, but not thaaaat much).

First, like everything in life, we have our goods and bads here, and this is of course only MY opinion, i can see how others would agree and disagree, but i would be not doing my part if i dont give a honest feedback.

 

Goods:

 

- The "phisical" traits are very good and fun, altough a little restricting to be fair. Guardian has always been super versatile, and here is all the focus only on damage, instead of damage/heal/tank options, but for the most part, good.

- The new virtues were ok, didnt think they were super good, but not bad, my only complain about it would be that you lose the pasive component on F3 and F1, and activating it has this new mecanic, so for guardian geting aegis is now imposible outside the "f3 to the enemy's face" scenario.

- This is kinda a bad and good, depending on your opinion here... it has both for me... the phisical traits, the new movement based virtues (f1-2-3), the main hand sword... all of this make a HUGE amout of gap closing abilities, wich is good.... but when you have 7, is a little overkill, you need something else there, if all 3 virtues provide movement, and all 4 phisical traits (in the utility slots) do too, at some poit you gonna want something else there.

 

Neutral:

 

- The off hand sword.... not much to say, i didnt think it was bad or good, personaly i tough it was super boring, so i went with shield, off hand sword only provided damage, and you already have a lot of that in main hand, virtues and utility slots, so there is NO need for a little extra, shield makes for a much stronger option (or focus if you are one of "those" 🤢🤮).

 

Bad/Awfull/Terrible

 

- The build skill tree.... The ONLY thing good about it was the second column (and by now i dont even remember it, all i know it is that i had no complain there), everything else was just plain bad, and in most cases didnt even made sence..."you get more healing power, BUT your heals heal for less", or "you get more concentration, but you have reduced boon duration" those 2 were the perfect example of how little tough went into that tree..... unless you have some other secret option that makes another stat scale up with healing or concentration, OTHER than their original focus, then i dont see the reason.

For the most part, the skill tree felt like "hey, you like this? now it has a way cooler efect!!! but it no longer has the previous efect", everything was a punishment, "pick one, lose one", specialy when you compare it to the other 2 classes in that same beta patch, Virtuoso was spectacular all arround, fun, balanced, clearly with an intention, meanwhile Willbender felt like they did the homework while the teacher was asking for it.... I main the guardian class, and this was super sad to see, because, having the option to chose, between "core guardian", dragon hunter, fire brand or willbender, i would NEVER go for willbender, it provides nothing that the others already have, the only thing it provides is damage, and some movility, other than that, it felt way weaker than the core guardian (i know, i play core guardian in pvp, and willbenders were no match at all, had extensive testing done that time).

 

I know in the "bad part" i went harsh mode, but this is my favorite class, and it felt really bad how poorly delivered it was, while i was having the fun of my life with the virtuoso, and it would really be painfull to see those things ignored.... i just hope this helps in some way.

Peace ✌️

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[otto.5684]

On 9/20/2021 at 3:53 PM, Exile.8160 said:

 

Prob never gonna happen anets is not that consistent, just look at the axe symbol and OG symbols completely diffrent.

I too think that some level of MH sword is needed. Skills 1&2 dont need change. Skill 3 though, is completely out of place. It does not fit at all with what  WB is going for. 
 

If it is up to me, I would keep the symbol the same, but change it to a fire field from light field, which is more thematic. Skill 4 OH now becomes skill 3 MH. Skill 4 something between damage and utility. Skill 5 remains the same.

[Atille.5047]

Willbender is entirely-self serving in it's theme, whilst it's traits and utilities don't really open up anything interesting besides maybe a hybrid burst build. Most of the utilities are underwhelming, as class has a number of core ones you would rather use instead (and probably for greater effect too), there is some potential in virtues-modifying traits for it like Phoenix Protocol and such for some complexity/variety of playstyles, but it's simply not there yet. Worst offense is that it's simply not flexible and entirely one-dimensional - it's only here to do some DPS and to maybe have a better open world build (good luck competing with FB in that niche, though). That, naturally, begs the question - wait, what is DH then? And thus, it simply fails to feel any unique. Mobility skills are just that, mobility skills. They're nice but not spec-definingly nice. 

Tradeoffs for it are too harsh, since it really gets nothing special besides stats for sacrificing toughness and general Guardian defensiveness, and Mantra of Solace isn't here to provide solace for you anymore. Firebrand's mantras being simplistic in their nature is perfectly offset by tomes just casually existing, however Willbender has no such luxury - it's virtues are just three flavors of dashes with some mechanics baked on top. Utilities on it simply need to do more, or have greater synergy with the spec - just some boons for shadowstepping is really not that exciting/interesting. For example, I'd really enjoy some sort of Aegis-based parry mechanic for it to reward skillful use, making you rely on active defences over passive ones entirely? Puzzle pieces for this sort of thing are already in core guardian, they just need to become good again/for once. 

Lastly, and quite importantly - if we're going so heavy on mobility skills, they need to be anything but clunky. Meanwhile offhand sword is not only worse dps wise than a focus (lol), but also feels quite bad to dash around with due to awkward animation stuttering breaking your momentum. Another peeve I have to WB is the fact that I fully expected it to replace mainhand sword skills too - after all, spec literally has 2 swords in it's icon? Considering Firebrand got 3 kits for itself, coming off heels of FB feels like Willbender is a downgrade of FB, sidegrade of DH at best. And lack of mainhands to run with that new shiny sword is showing, further diluting the feeling of "new" for this spec - yes, there's some new offhand, except you're stuck with same old sword in mainhand you were rocking on every power (and some condi) builds for nearly a decade. I feel like it's a missed opportunity to truly "break some rules" as was claimed. 

[Slygray.7051]

Looking at how the Vindicator dodge plays it made me think of how Willbender elite could borrow some inspiration; when I read the elite (and in playing around with it during beta day) I am brought back to that scene in 'Kung-fu Hustle' where Sing uses the move to defeat the antagonist in the final battle. Its even called the same thing as far as I know - I might do a sneaky google after this post but yea its pretty much the same thing where you jump in the air and force palm your foe into the ground. 

 

In pvp and wvw Renewed Focus is too good to pass up, and overall arguably. Gives you the best emergency button to press in the game and it resets guardians virtues and you can move while using it. I mean, that's amazing. So to promote usage of this shiny new elite spec elite skill I suggest using something akin to vindicators dodge animation where you leap up into the air, and be able to move whilst in this invulnerability phase in the air-albeit slowly and not very far like vindicator. Perhaps instead its just a copy paste of the animation and 'port of Willbenders crashing courage? Could make do with some mental games like you see the animation but you dont know if its a diving courage or a diving palm.

 

I feel like at first glance the idea it just straight-up taking away from Vindicator something cool and thematic but at the same time it's a knee-jerk moment where I cannot see that skill (Willbender elite skill) being used in any other fashion. It might not have to look it in the same fashion where you disappear out of the UI Vindicator; could keep the animation as is where you jump up and hover then slap on like guardian shield #3 animation, give the elite a stack of x3 aegis upon activation, each shield disappears on hit giving you that invuln and guard identity, and the duration goes away on hit. Maybe its just an invuln like RF. Maybe no invuln at all and its just an aoe blind on activation (kicks up dust from the ground bc you're a kung fu master and jump up into the air so fast ooooooh aaaaaaah). Dunno but just my two cents, hope this could spark some better ideas. 

[Adamixos.6785]

I have only a little insight to offer with regards to the uniqueness of the e-spec. As it stands, Willbender is barely different from core guard. We get a new set of okay-ish utility skills, virtues that move, and that is about it. The off-hand sword is underwhelming at best, and the GS Sword/Focus combo that is the meta on all power dps guardian variants - surprise surprise - outperforms everything on Willbender, too. 

My suggestion would be to stay truer to the elite specialization you are trying to create here: the symbol of the class are two swords, which means the conceptual intention is to make not only the off-hand sword a viable choice for this new spec, but to also add something to how dual wielding MH and OH weapons works. 

Given that Willbender is a mobile martial artist, there is a true and tested method to achieve that. 

Add Dual Skills to replace MH skill 3 on scepter / mace / sword depending on what OH is equipped, or at the very least if OH Sword is equipped, in order to make the latter a more exciting choice. Off-hand weapons are kind of underwhelming in general for especs unless there is a significant class mechanic in addition to them. Dual attacks would achieve that, and would also open up more diversity in how Guardian, but most especially, this new e-spec is played. 

Buffing the damage and utility of OH sword is a given, but the above, imo, would make Willbender truly outstanding.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Adamixos.6785

[Drael.2015]

Willbender Traits: 

Power for Power: Gain +240 power at the expense of -240 toughness.

Conceited Curate: Gain +240 healing power while reducing outgoing healing to allies by -33%.

Meanwhile on vindicator....

Empire Divided: gain +240 power and +240 healing power while over 50% health.

Are you SERIOUS Anet? 😭

Edited September 23, 2021 by Drael.2015

[Loules.8601]

13 hours ago, Drael.2015 said:

Willbender Traits: 

Power for Power: Gain +240 power at the expense of -240 toughness.

Conceited Curate: Gain +240 healing power while reducing outgoing healing to allies by -33%.

Meanwhile on vindicator....

Empire Divided: gain +240 power and +240 healing power while over 50% health.

Are you SERIOUS Anet? 😭

You mistakes something. 
Vindicator:

240 power above 75% hp

240 healing power under 50% hp

[Drael.2015]

1 hour ago, Loules.8601 said:

You mistakes something. 
Vindicator:

240 power above 75% hp

240 healing power under 50% hp

I must have read it incorrectly it looks you are right.

 

I still have no idea why WB deserves all of the tradeoffs when this trait sounds great. Higher damage when you are performing well and a boost to healing after you take damage. No double edged sword there. Not as bad as I originally thought but still not great at all when you compare the traits side by side.