Virtuoso Feedback Thread [Merged]

[Yumesaki.7082]

Weapon skills

(Weapon 1) Flying Cutter - this does most of your damage, maybe too much power is packed into the auto attack and not enough into the rest of the kit or virtuoso

- it feels bad that this skill can be reflected because it is a projectile in wvw.

 

(Weapon 2) Bladecall - hard to aim this skill with no target, maybe should be like elementalist fire scepter skill 3 phoenix, with a ground targeted indicator or like chronomancer shield skill 5 tides of time.

- if it was an ammo skill you could have a longer cd on it and use it to fill in when you are missing one stocked blade/illusion.

- it feels bad that this skill can be reflected because it is a projectile in wvw.

 

(Weapon 3) Unstable Bladestorm - could replace launching blades with something else, like making it an ethereal combo field or it blocks projectiles or it applies bleeding, confusion or cripple to foes inside it.

- feels like it is lacking damage

- it feels bad that this skill can be reflected because it is a projectile in wvw.

 

Utilities

(Heal) Twin Blade Restoration - goes on interrupt cooldown if you are not facing your target when using this skill

- feels like a blade renewal like heal skill would be better and would fit the theme more.

 

(Utility) Blade Renewal - feels like the blade generation should be on the heal skill, could replace blade generation with giving the player boons (fury, might, vigor, quickness, aegis)

 

(Stun Break) Psychic Force - could put defensive boons here instead of offensive boons if you wanted (aegis, regen, vigor, swiftness)

 

(Utility) Sword of Decimation - this skill feels good to use and is good for setting up combos

- it could be a 2 hit combo 1st attack  immobilizies and does a little damage, then 2nd attack does the main chunk of damage.

 

(Utility) Rain of Swords - damage feels lack luster.

- could deal additional damage to controlled foes.

- visual clutter from the magic circle above the swords falling.

 

(Elite) Thousand Cuts - hard to cast while moving. (casting while moving sometimes causes the skill to go on cooldown and not create the damage field or animation.)

- damage feels low for an ultimate, or it's missing a secondary effect like conditions or boon removal/denial.

- the size of the effect also feels incredibly small, if it was 3 times as wide it would be easier to hit things and feel much better to use.

 

Shatters

(F1) Harmony - feels like it is lacking some damage

 

(F2) Sorrow - feels like it is lacking some damage and some conditions like torment or poison.

 

(F3) Dissonance - feels like it is lacking something, lower the cooldown based on number of blades consumed or maybe add some conditions like slow or weakness

 

(F4) Requiem - feels like it is lacking damage or something else.

- the tooltip is confusing 1 and 1/2 casting time, but 3 seconds block.

- it feels really bad being locked into a 3 second block animation and not being able to use any other skills.

- instead of a block maybe make it 2-1 seconds of distortion and increase the cooldown on it.

- another option could be to make it a projectile block for 3 seconds. 

 

Traits

Minor

Psychic Blades - I think this is fine

 

Deadly Blades - this should probably just be jagged mind

 

Quiet Intensity - I think this is fine

 

Adept

Bladeturn Refrain - this could give vigor or cause shatters to restore some energy for dodging

 

Mental Focus - you could deal more damage the closer you are to a foe 1200-600(0-15% increased)

 

Jagged Mind - should be a minor trait, could be replaced with bladesongs blind targets, or cause an additional condition.

 

Major

Duelist's Reversal - the boons could be changed to defensive boons such as vigor and regen

 

Phantasmal Blade - this trait is a bit lackluster.

- (combat only) when you use a weapon skill to summon a clone or phantasm, launch a blade at your target.

- (combat only) when you gain a blade, launch a blade at your target.

 

Sharpening Sorrow - could cause bladesong conditions to last longer as well.

 

Grandmaster

Riposting Blade - also add reflecting and blocking projectiles as well as blinding an opponent to trigger this trait.

 

Infinite Forge - this trait needs to also be active outside of combat.

- you can remove the minimum blade count to make it feel better.

 

Bloodsong - this is the strongest grandmaster, maybe an icd for how fast you can stock a blade 1-3 seconds to bring it in line with the other grandmaster traits

 

 

[SteelPony.4517]

PLEASE, don't change anything with this specialization!
Having so much fun with the Mesmer in Beta and loving how super burst heavy it is. It's everything this build should be! I thought Mirage build was decent and fun, but this is something entirely better! The graphics with the stored blades is pretty sweet as well, so are all of the skill animations!
I've been running a DPS heavy build with Marauder stats & Divinity runes, bloodlust and strength sigils on the weapons. Slicing thru PvE mobs like butter!

Edited August 21, 2021 by SteelPony.4517

[TheAgedGnome.7520]

On 8/17/2021 at 7:27 PM, TheAgedGnome.7520 said:

DAY 1 - Initial impressions after a few hours of OW PVE play:

• Lack of synergy with other trait lines, especially Illusion and Inspiration. This makes Virtuoso feel like it was duct-taped onto the Mesmer, not integrated into it.
• Damage is generally good - maybe a bit too much; however, there is a definite tradeoff of dps for survivability, so it may not be too much, although CD on dagger3 might need a slight increase.
• Cast times on Bladesongs too long.
• Bladesong F4 seems to be quite mediocre damage.
• Psychic Force is nice, but knockbacks are detrimental in group play, and also detrimental to the small radius AOE skills Virtuoso has, so it's good/bad. Also CD seems too long at 45s.
• Twin Blade Restoration heal skill cast time is waaaaaay tooooooo looooong. C'mon, get real.

 

Summary: Virtuoso is a muddle

• It doesn't feel like an elite to mesmer - it feels like a ele or thief elite got painted purple and taped onto mesmer.
• The playstyle lacks fluidity with too long cast times, and it seems that damage on skills have been upped to compensate for that. Yet, it seems it wants to be seen as a mobile spec, dodging and throwing blades. Which is it? It would be far better to reduce both cast times, CDs, and skill damage for a faster-paced style more in line with mesmer.
• It lacks sustain due to the lack of synergy w/Inspiration.

 

I'll keep playing it more (the other two bet elites don't interest me) but as of this moment, I'd go back to my Mirage if I had to choose.  

DAY 2 - Update

• Felt more comfortable with it today. I swapped out rings and accessories from Marauders to Celestial and also used Dagger/Sword+Dagger/Focus. The added toughness from cele helped alot, and Dagger/Sword makes a nice combo as Sword 5 tends to get aggro and Sword4 is the block I needed. I also used the Bladeturn Refrain trait for aegis, and liked that.
• Twin Blade Restoration is bugged, and often did not work (when walking away from target). It also would sometimes try to fire daggers at some nearby creature rather than the targeted one, so it created unwanted aggro as well. Along with its suicidal 1s cast time,  I finally gave up and used Ether Feast instead.
• Unstable Bladestorm has some interesting uses. Since it moves at about the speed of the player moving in combat, I could cast it into a pack, run with it (like it were whirling blades around me, casting Bladecall & Flying Cutter on the run, then almost at the pack, cast F4 Bladeturn Requiem and Rain of Swords, and its a wild AOE soup. 
• Another way I used Unstable Bladestorm dagger3, was to cast dagger3>2>1>F1. By the time Unstable Bladestorm reached the target the other skills were hitting almost simultaneously, so it usually melted anything that wasn't a vet before they had time to react.
• Chak Gerent and Dragon Stand metas went well, except for bugs with hitting Mordrem banners and Thousand Cuts refusing to fire at Mordremoth on the islands. (I noted those in the bugs thread.)
• Speaking of Chak, reflection domes on Chak can be a killer, literally. I can only image what WVW/PVP would be like.

 

Day 2 Summary:

• With some toughness and sword offhand, the Virtuoso felt much nicer today. It was pleasant to play, for the most part.
• It still feels like it should be more mobile, given its lack of sustain, but the cast & CD times work against that.
• It's obviously a "selfish" spec, so adding support for others doesn't make sense. But it needs more sustain for itself. Maybe make Restorative Illusions work with blades, except if triggers on every other blade, not each blade. But preferably, it would be a trait within the Virtuoso line (maybe in place of Psychic Riposte).

 

Day3

• I was reluctant to spend more effort on Virtuoso, but after some time playing today on it I'm glad I did.  Foregoing the dagger and using GS, I went through Chak Gerent and Dragon Stand meta, and wandered around AB  looking for vets.
• I ended up with the default Marauder+Divinity runes gear + Zerker GS + Dagger/Focus. Traits were Dom1-2-2, Chaos 2-3-3 and Virt 1-1-2. This went very well, and the pace and flow worked pretty well. The CDs on dagger/focus synergized with the CDs on GS, so weapon swapping felt useful.  I was vulnerable to AB ranged frogs/mordrem but otherwise felt strong enough. I still seemed, though, that I lacked either mobility OR sustain/defense. 
• WVW - I went in and only changed from Chaos 2-3-3 to 2-1-3.   I'm a casual WVW (rank 126) but I noticed the following: the Virtuoso was effective by being very bursty in small group encounters. I got caught 1v3ish in a few cases, and surprisingly in one case stayed alive until help arrived, the other 2 times I got trashed. No surprise. But I think the Virt could be a good DPS burster, except for the projectile reflection issue. Once again, I still felt, though, that I lacked either enough mobility or enough sustain/defense.
• In metas, use of Thousand Cuts elite was difficult due to visual noise from ground AOE - I was unable to see the directional arrow without swinging it back and forth several times, and even then it was a guess if I was aiming at the target. 

 

SUMMARY

• Virtuoso is currently a muddle: Is it a nimble dagger-throwing illusionist or is it a plodding anti-personnel barrage cannon?
• Synergies with other trait lines are inconsistent.
• Either it needs more sustain/defense OR it needs more mobility. I'd be happy with either.
• Cast times need to correlate with the above choice.
• Thousand Cuts needs revisiting - get rid of the directional targeting, or make the directional arrow display ABOVE the visual noise on the ground, or maybe make it a GBAoE. 
• Twin Blade Restoration is buggy, and the 1sec cast time is insane and unjustifiable.
• Bladeturn Requiem (F4) is weak and needs higher damage.
• Visual noise clutter is a concern. I imagine 4or 5 Virts all casting Rain of Swords and shatters, and the screen just becomes an opaque oozing slime of purple.

 

Final thought: I leave the beta saying that Virtuoso feels promising. It needs a clearer definition of what it is supposed to be, and then design choices for cast times, CDs, traits & trait synergies to match. Right now, it is wallowing in the purgatory of  psionic indecision.

 

Edited August 21, 2021 by TheAgedGnome.7520

[Yoci.2481]

When you give feedback please dont forget to mention if you use a pink mouse to click skills. That's important. 😇

[Unicorn Luna.5204]

I haven't yet had much time to play Virtuoso but I'd just like to say that it seems unusual to only have one  (1handed) weapon producing blades. But mainly so far Virtuoso is hot.

[Acheron.4576]

My two issues so far are

Range hate is a problem. It invalidates majority of Virtuoso's kit with no ability to resist leaving them with nothing to do but twiddle their thumbs. This is not fun. Please give Virtuoso a way to ignore it, if that is to much then a utility skill that will allow us to counter play it and bypass the range hate. It is frustrating and not fun when your spec is invalidated by a pve enemy or player pushing a single button.

Swords feel like an after thought. Please improve the synergy of these weapons with Virtuoso. At least then if we encounter range hate we can swap to them. As it is, swords both mh and of doesn't feel good enough in regards to risk/reward especially considering virtuoso mechanic leaves us more vulnerable. I feel like improving synergy with these weapons would do well in matching the theme of the spec which is using psychic blades to fight.

[Every day pon.5386]

9 hours ago, Eddy.7051 said:

Feedback on theme rather than mechanics:

 

"Virtuoso", "Bladesong", "Harmony", "Dissonance", "Requiem", "Bladeturn Refrain" (GW1 Paragon Skill), and "Bloodsong" are all Virtuoso skills or traits that allude to music or singing. The problem is this theme is not executed in the skill animation visuals or sounds. If the Virtuoso must retain its music theme, please update Bladesong animations to reinforce this theme. Sounds: Add whistling sounds when casting Bladesongs as the blades slice through the air and/or add the sound of a musical note when acquiring a Bladesong (acquiring the first is a low note, acquiring the second is a higher note, acquiring the third is an even higher note, etc.). Visuals: Add a trail of musical notes or sound waves (represented as either wavy lines or a series of expanding rings) when casting Bladesongs and/or add pulsing sound wave rings to each Bladesong while they are stocked and floating.

 

Virtuoso's apparent themes in its animations and mechanics: materializing blades, telekinesis, and dueling. These themes expand on the core Mesmer facet of mental power and sharpness. But the music theme, often associated with emotional/social/spiritual intelligence (D&D charisma or wisdom), does not seem cohesive with psionic power (D&D intelligence). It may be best to rename all skills, traits, and the name "Virtuoso" to remove all references of music and signing. If another theme should take its place, I recommend the theme of cerebral electricity. In fantasy and sci-fi, abnormally high electricity activity in the nervous system, along with telekinesis, is associated with high brain power. GW1 Mesmers also have lightning themed skill icons/animations (Chaos Storm, Backfire, Drain Enchantment, Energy Surge, Ineptitude, Migraine, Mind Wrack, and Shatter Enchantment), GW2 Mesmers also have Chaos Storm, and Virtuoso already has two skills with "storm" in their names. Skill animations can be updated with zappy/thundering sounds, trailing lightning behind thrown blades, and/or chaining electrical currents between stocked and floating Bladesongs. The "Bladesong" skill type can be renamed to "Bladebolt", "Virtuoso" can be renamed to "Psion" (Wikipedia: "...a fictitious unit of mental energy..."), and the "Psionic" skill type can be renamed to not be redundant with the specialization name.

 

It would be best to save the music theme for a Bard-inspired, Mesmer elite specialization.

 

IKR?! Mesmers are the Minstrels of GW2 but there isn't anything song related (*cough* WARHORN) in Virtuoso

[Every day pon.5386]

35 minutes ago, Acheron.4576 said:

My two issues so far are

Range hate is a problem. It invalidates majority of Virtuoso's kit with no ability to resist leaving them with nothing to do but twiddle their thumbs. This is not fun. Please give Virtuoso a way to ignore it, if that is to much then a utility skill that will allow us to counter play it and bypass the range hate. It is frustrating and not fun when your spec is invalidated by a pve enemy or player pushing a single button.

Swords feel like an after thought. Please improve the synergy of these weapons with Virtuoso. At least then if we encounter range hate we can swap to them. As it is, swords both mh and of doesn't feel good enough in regards to risk/reward especially considering virtuoso mechanic leaves us more vulnerable. I feel like improving synergy with these weapons would do well in matching the theme of the spec which is using psychic blades to fight.

Virtuosos ATM is a super basic & bland range dps class with less utility than Core Mesmer

[Downstate.4697]

For wvw the dagger weapon skills need to not be a projectile.

 

They need unblockable effects to prevent most of their bladesongs from being reflected. Id rather lose the aegis for 3 stacks of unblockable. Or change the trait that gives quickness on an evade or block to give 2 stacks of unblockable or something.

 

 

[ReaverKane.7598]

I'd like to preface this with saying that Virtuoso was the spec i allotted the least time to. Not only are Guardian and Necro 2 of my favourite classes (with 1st and 3rd most played on my account), but also apart of the random tanking run in raids with the old Minstrel's build, i haven't done anything with Mesmer since it stopped being the Quickness and Alacrity machine it used to be before PoF.

Because i was meaning to take it on T4 Fractals, and it was the last i experimented with, i ended up not having enough gear left over to do more than a standard power build (with some assassin's stuff for extra crit chance). So that's my only reference point.

First impressions:
When i first saw the presentation of the Virtuoso, it felt like finally Mesmer would have a good spec to run the open world, and it did. It is by far the funnest and easiest spec on mesmer to clear groups and cleave big open world bosses.

 

Weapon Skills:

The dagger feels pretty good, actually better than i expected, the first skill still feels like an attack chain without being an attack chain, skill 2 is cool but for the life of me, i never managed to make it bounce of the ground on flat surfaces... Needs practice.
Skill 3 feels more like a skill 5, and its pretty amazing. I enjoyed it thoroughly.
 

Psionics
Most of the Utility skills, and the heal feel pretty fun to use, they really push the aoe/cleave build i missed on mesmer. The Elite feels a bit off, though. I mean the actual skill is pretty nice. How the targetting and anchoring of the skill works is a bit off.
Like the if you move during the activation of the skill, the anchor on the near side moves as well, which means it ends up in a different configuration than you aimed it. I think it should either root you while its doing the initial activation, or should keep the anchors after aiming. I mean one of the core aspects of gw2 combat is to keep moving and dodging, and this skills punishes you for that.

Bladesongs

Bladesongs are pretty fun and compliment the utilities and the dagger play style pretty well. It feels cool to move away from the clones.

 

Traits
The condi based traits seem a bit awkward and week with current meta. Maybe with a future attribute combination of Condi Dmg, Precision and Expertise it might make it even more interesting. I feel this is the opposite of Harbinger in the sense of having traits for condi, power and support. Harbinger's base kit is overloaded towards condi, and this one is woefully bare of condis.

 

TLDR
I didn't play much with this, but what i did play, in open world areas, was really fun, the most fun i had with mesmer in open world, EVER.
I can see this also having some fun interactions in other content modes, but sadly didn't get the chance to test it properly.

[Ronin.4501]

Basically I'll just say this; it seems the PvE devs have designed this class (and the other two specializations available during the beta) for PvE players only with little to no collaboration with the WvW devs/WvW players.  Please ANET Coordinate with all the  "cornerstones" of your game for a change!!! Or just get rid of SPvP and WvW altogether, because you might be improving upon the gameplay in PvE, but you're continually making WvW/SPvP worse!!!

 

I'd go into further detail but there are already enough posts by WvW/SPvP players in this thread detailing how awful these new specializations are in the PvP modes.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Ronin.4501

[AllDatAngst.4208]

I really love the visuals around this spec, but I feel like they add a lot more clutter. When it's just me, they're not bad but in group content the Rain of Swords is overwhelming. The top is almost impossible to see through and it sits in the air, right in your way. I think the visuals for that could be re-tuned, either smaller or more transparent.

[Zenith.7301]

Can Sword 3 on Virtuoso not make you jump up slowly like an idiot while in melee range of your target? The animation lock is really bad, why are you jumping while right next to the enemy?

 

In fact, just change the animation to the thief sword 2 and give a root or daze, not a pitiful cripple.

 

Bladesongs also need to apply aoe damage around your target. It's ridiculous that they're just single target shatters on a class with already deficient cleave/aoe.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

18 minutes ago, Zenith.7301 said:

Can Sword 3 on Virtuoso not make you jump up slowly like an idiot while in melee range of your target? The animation lock is really bad, why are you jumping while right next to the enemy?

 

In fact, just change the animation to the thief sword 2 and give a root or daze, not a pitiful cripple.

 

Bladesongs also need to apply aoe damage around your target. It's ridiculous that they're just single target shatters on a class with already deficient cleave/aoe.

 

Sword 3 leap is really awesome for kiting in PvP/WvW. If they made it a shadowstep instead, it'd likely require a target. I'd prefer they just clean up the bugginess instead.

[alex.8417]

I find the design of the virtuoso well thought out, however the line of traits is clumsy because it is not compatible with its long range, the virtuoso offers us an Aegis on the 1st line of traits which is a selfish boon that will not be shared, moreover it will be used very little by the range of its weapon and its utility skills to make its traits Viable in all modes of play (PVE, PVP and WVW)

 

We also have the trait "Mental focus" which forces the virtuoso to get closer to his target to be able to have an increase of his damage however the virtuoso offers spells of long range, so this trait must be reworked.

 

As for the 3rd line of traits, the bleed damage is the lowest in the game..., and its palette of other alterations is really weak compared to Mirage which will do better in this area, I think the 3rd line is a waste that will be used very little.

 

My opinion is that everything I mentioned needs to be rethought, and for me it is vital for the virtuoso to have a minimum of CC because apart from the "Psychic force" to be able to make up for the loss of his clones, the virtuoso has no means of CC "if it's the basic skills of the Mesmer" because you are bread and butter for your enemies to be able to survive in the competitive mode, and to be able to make himself useful for his group in the open world against the bosses.

 

I would have liked to see the return of some skills that can serve as inspiration if certain traits of the virtuoso are rethought like "Mistrust", "Panic" and "Psychic Instability" which I think would make the virtuoso shine.

 

I want to thank the Arenanet team for the work done for this extension.  👍

 

[Blue Pilot.5648]

I'll just start all my feedback posts by saying where my perspective as a player comes from. I play guildwars as a pve roamer, if that's even a thing. I do some light group content, world bosses, and all around enjoy exploring the world solo or with friends. I don't do much raiding, wvw, or pvp.

 

That being said, the Virtuoso to me felt great! I played a power build, and having that ranged damaged output felt really good when tackling some of the harder hero point challenges, or champions out in the open world. The burst damage was so good, I enjoyed setting all the skills off, having all the particle effects on screen, and the enemies being dead when the dust settled. 

It was nice having a few defensive options to fall back too like the F4 skill and "Blade Renewal".

 

 

Now for some scattered thoughts:

 

- Upon seeing the trailers and the first looks, I thought the animation for the auto-attack "Flying Cutter" would get repetitive and stale, but it works well. 

 

- I did not think I would like the F skills having a cast time (as opposed to how it's always being insta cast), but the new animations make it so worth it.

 

- It would be nice to have more ways to get rid of conditions apart from the heal. Maybe if the shatter skills transferred conditions on hit or if "Psychic Force" did a little condi cleanse, for example.

 

- On the subject of "Blade Renewal", the distortion did not reflect projectiles when traited with "Master of Fragmentation". 

 

- "Bladecall" is a nice enough skill, but it would be nice to have some reward for having the return attack also hit. Maybe a little cripple to keep the enemies at bay or it builds might; just something. 

 

All in all, I really enjoyed the Virtuoso!

 

 

 

[phokus.8934]

33 minutes ago, Blue Pilot.5648 said:

I'll just start all my feedback posts by saying where my perspective as a player comes from. I play guildwars as a pve roamer, if that's even a thing. I do some light group content, world bosses, and all around enjoy exploring the world solo or with friends. I don't do much raiding, wvw, or pvp.

 

That being said, the Virtuoso to me felt great! I played a power build, and having that ranged damaged output felt really good when tackling some of the harder hero point challenges, or champions out in the open world. The burst damage was so good, I enjoyed setting all the skills off, having all the particle effects on screen, and the enemies being dead when the dust settled. 

It was nice having a few defensive options to fall back too like the F4 skill and "Blade Renewal".

 

 

Now for some scattered thoughts:

 

- Upon seeing the trailers and the first looks, I thought the animation for the auto-attack "Flying Cutter" would get repetitive and stale, but it works well. 

 

- I did not think I would like the F skills having a cast time (as opposed to how it's always being insta cast), but the new animations make it so worth it.

 

- It would be nice to have more ways to get rid of conditions apart from the heal. Maybe if the shatter skills transferred conditions on hit or if "Psychic Force" did a little condi cleanse, for example.

 

- On the subject of "Blade Renewal", the distortion did not reflect projectiles when traited with "Master of Fragmentation". 

 

- "Bladecall" is a nice enough skill, but it would be nice to have some reward for having the return attack also hit. Maybe a little cripple to keep the enemies at bay or it builds might; just something. 

 

All in all, I really enjoyed the Virtuoso!

 

 

 

Because if you read master of fragmentation you’d see that it improves shatter skills.  Blade Renewal just adds the distortion effect which shares the same name as the shatter f4.  Blade Renewal being a utility so there is no assumption that it should reflect.

[MrAmputatoes.6031]

So, reading over this thread there seems to be some major consistencies. 

 

1: Those that regularly play Mesmers in PvP/ WvW find Virtuoso to be lacking in compared to Core, Chrono, and Mirage because it has stripped what made Mesmers unique as a class or just flat out made abilities worse.

 

2: Those that don't regularly play Mesmers, like the Virtuoso due to the simplified mechanics (i.e. no clones).

 

I feel that with the amount of "effort" ANet put into PvP/WvW, we won't see any meaningful changes to Virtuoso for competitive play and PvE will probably see damage number nerfs to keep it in line with other specs damage in Raids, since that's what this whole game is balanced around for some reason.

[Blue Pilot.5648]

4 minutes ago, phokus.8934 said:

Because if you read master of fragmentation you’d see that it improves shatter skills.  Blade Renewal just adds the distortion effect which shares the same name as the shatter f4.  Blade Renewal being a utility so there is no assumption that it should reflect.

Since we are only in beta, and this is the first we saw of this elite spec, I would argue that it is up to interpretation.

 

The trait simply says: "Distortion: Reflects Projectiles". If you look at the tooltip for Blade Renewal it says: "Channel to gain distortion and stock up to the maximum number of blades", and the icon for Distortion is used as well. I would also argue, this skill takes over as the Virtuoso's distortion skill, since their F4 was replaced by a block. Also, if their intention was to further separate Blade Renewal from the shatter skill, they could have opted to give it the "Blur" effect instead.

 

The wiki also states: "The application of Reflection applies for any source of Distortion, not just the Distortion skill, and lasts as long as the Distortion effect does." Now, you can argue that the wiki is written by players, and players could be wrong, and yeah okay, but I would not dismiss the comment as "there is no assumption that it should reflect".

 

All this being said, maybe I am right, maybe I am wrong; I am just here to provide feedback as I see it, and in the end the devs are the ones that will make the final call.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

30 minutes ago, Blue Pilot.5648 said:

Since we are only in beta, and this is the first we saw of this elite spec, I would argue that it is up to interpretation.

 

The trait simply says: "Distortion: Reflects Projectiles". If you look at the tooltip for Blade Renewal it says: "Channel to gain distortion and stock up to the maximum number of blades", and the icon for Distortion is used as well. I would also argue, this skill takes over as the Virtuoso's distortion skill, since their F4 was replaced by a block. Also, if their intention was to further separate Blade Renewal from the shatter skill, they could have opted to give it the "Blur" effect instead.

 

The wiki also states: "The application of Reflection applies for any source of Distortion, not just the Distortion skill, and lasts as long as the Distortion effect does." Now, you can argue that the wiki is written by players, and players could be wrong, and yeah okay, but I would not dismiss the comment as "there is no assumption that it should reflect".

 

All this being said, maybe I am right, maybe I am wrong; I am just here to provide feedback as I see it, and in the end the devs are the ones that will make the final call.

I posted that on the bug section yesterday.
If it's not intended to give reflect on blade renewal they should change the wording on the trait.

[phokus.8934]

1 hour ago, Blue Pilot.5648 said:

Since we are only in beta, and this is the first we saw of this elite spec, I would argue that it is up to interpretation.

 

The trait simply says: "Distortion: Reflects Projectiles". If you look at the tooltip for Blade Renewal it says: "Channel to gain distortion and stock up to the maximum number of blades", and the icon for Distortion is used as well. I would also argue, this skill takes over as the Virtuoso's distortion skill, since their F4 was replaced by a block. Also, if their intention was to further separate Blade Renewal from the shatter skill, they could have opted to give it the "Blur" effect instead.

 

The wiki also states: "The application of Reflection applies for any source of Distortion, not just the Distortion skill, and lasts as long as the Distortion effect does." Now, you can argue that the wiki is written by players, and players could be wrong, and yeah okay, but I would not dismiss the comment as "there is no assumption that it should reflect".

 

All this being said, maybe I am right, maybe I am wrong; I am just here to provide feedback as I see it, and in the end the devs are the ones that will make the final call.

You’re misunderstanding the trait.  It says shatters and Distortion is a shatter, also an effect.  Blade Renewal applies the effect and is not a shatter.

 

So yes, your interpretation is wrong to even remotely assume that a non-shatter utility should gain the effect of a trait that modifies shatters.

[Mik.3401]

3 hours ago, MrAmputatoes.6031 said:

So, reading over this thread there seems to be some major consistencies. 

 

1: Those that regularly play Mesmers in PvP/ WvW find Virtuoso to be lacking in compared to Core, Chrono, and Mirage because it has stripped what made Mesmers unique as a class or just flat out made abilities worse.

 

2: Those that don't regularly play Mesmers, like the Virtuoso due to the simplified mechanics (i.e. no clones).

 

I feel that with the amount of "effort" ANet put into PvP/WvW, we won't see any meaningful changes to Virtuoso for competitive play and PvE will probably see damage number nerfs to keep it in line with other specs damage in Raids, since that's what this whole game is balanced around for some reason.

If I remember well I heard from someone that they tend to balance the game around raids because some player communities track and publish benchmarks from this game mode a lot. So basically Anet could just look at ready data and not bother to even think about PvP or WvW. Looking at the state of PvP I wouldn’t be surprised if it was true.

 

The PvE-viable-only design of virtuoso adds even more to this probability

Edited August 22, 2021 by Mik.3401

[Guizao.4167]

This is my feedback from a sPvP perspective:

Having played virtuoso extensively during this beta I can say that I really enjoy it. The mechanics are interesting and overall simpler than our previous elite specs. The visuals are nice and fluid (high5 the art 'n animation teams) and the weapon of choice is cool. However, the utility skills are quite underpowered and I also felt that some of the Bladesongs could use additional effects. The elite skill has almost no use in pvp and none of the offense oriented utility skills pose a threat (they hit very little and are easy to avoid). I see the spec was designed to be more pure dps rather than condition damage, but given the condi options we have in the traitline we could use more synergy between bleeding and confusion. I also don't understand why the traitline doesn't support Psionic, our previous elite specs had some traits that provided a little bit more functionality when using its utility skills, why didn't virtuoso receive the same treatment?

I like the synergy the virtuoso has with Illusion traitline (dps build) and Dueling (condi build), that's really nice. One thing however that I'd like to mention are the choice of weapons. Playing a condition build as a virtuoso locks you on with dagger + pistol, anything outside of it is simply unrewarding. Scepter autoattack stop generating blades past 3, staff is no good without bouncing projectiles. The spec doesn't offer much to stack confusion, just bleeding.

When it comes to power I felt torn between shatter build (Mental Anguish) or phantasm build (Persistence of Memory + Protected Phantasms). Both builds have their pros and cons but I say that shatter build is far more powerful due to the number of blades you can fire (5) compared to the number of illusions you shatter (3). Bladesong Harmony hits a lot when traited into Domination and fired with maxed blades, even Bladesong Sorrow hits a lot because of that. However, using a dagger in a dps build feels very clunky and weak, the weapon has better use for condi build, and the same thing that happens to a condition build also happens for a dps build, anything outside Sword/Sword + Greatsword feels unrewarding. Sword/Sword gives you better blade generation and also better mobility. Greatsword is like staff but more powerful and useful. The synergy between Virtuoso traitline and our core traitlines is very narrowish too. Overall, the spec is solid and fun to play in spvp. Please send my thanks to the ones responsible for making the Virtuoso, I really love it and am looking forward to playing it more!

[Daniel Handler.4816]

WVW virtuso could be an effective middle between weaver and scourge as a backline damage/boon ripper but due to the sheer amount of projectile hate it ends up doing nothing well.

 

Idk perhaps rework infinite forge to make psionic skills proc shatter traits. Because at this point rain of swords needs to strip 5 boons aoe, and do 10-20% more damage to compete with things like well of corruption or meteor shower when none of our bladesongs are hitting half the time.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Daniel Handler.4816

[Kasima.8143]

The solution to too much visual noise on the ground is NOT to put that visual noise between the camera and the action instead of on the ground. Please get rid of those sky effects ASAP.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Kasima.8143