Getting too expensive?

[necromaniac.7629]

@"Black Wolf.7348" said:play the game to get ingame gold, use gold to buy gems and then gems to buy whatever you want. simple, easy and cheap.

you mean simple, but time-consuming and expensive any way you take it, but i manage to carry along because i play one toon 90% of the time so i get to focus on expenses for one toon. (although i wouldn't mind giving my other few toons attention)

[Minjin.8259]

Actually the game I came from before this was SO much more expensive. $25 for a costume, huge amounts of stuff in loot boxes so you could drop $200 and never get the thing you wanted. Everything was character bound, not account wide. There was no way to convert gold to cash shop currency. If you wanted to upgrade your gear, you pretty much had to spend cash. They had a monthly sub that you didn't have to have, but simple stuff like navigating the map was incredibly hard without it.And they shoved the cash shop in your face every time you switched maps.

I find GW2 refreshing in the way they do the cash shop. And I find it pretty inexpensive. Plus how many mount skins do ya really need, and why would you want one of every class in every race/gender combo especially if you only play one most of the time? I really don't think you can blame the game for your PC hardware either.

[Mrs Lana.2506]

@Mortifera.6138 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Mortifera.6138 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Mortifera.6138 said:First of all, you need to pay sub money on mount skins, because the original ones are ugly. After that, the character slots are just too expensive, costing $10 per slot. You realize there are people who want to play every race and sex combination? That's a lot of $10 bills. And with the expansion coming out, we'll need to upgrade our PC hardware. I think Guild Wars 2 is too expensive for me... which is a shame, because this is the best online game.

You can do this with the basic 5 slots make a human warrior play through the story delete.Make a asura warrior play through story rinse and repeat until you done all of them.About the mount skins that is subjective would still have all the basic ones if I did not splurge on branded pack awhile back.

About upgrading your pc that is needed for every game mate.

You wont be able to play current wow on the 2004 computer you had when it released.Any game releasing in 2021 would be hard to play on a 7-8 year old computer so why would gw2s next expansion be any different?

Why would I create characters i wanted to delete?

Oh read wrong well all race and sex would be 10 slots not to bad mate, just cut down a few drinks a month and you will have 5 more slots easy.

I think you still don't understand. I want every race/sex/class combination. That's hundreds of dollars in slots. People do spend that much, though I am hesitant to.

The limit is 70 characters. It's not possible to have every race/sex/class.

[Mrs Lana.2506]

@krz.1327 said:this is obviously a troll, nobody has the time to play all race/sex/profession combinations

I mean I have 70 toons (45 of which are permanent, the others are more expendable), and I've finished story and mapping more than I can remember. Some of us do have excess time to play lol

[Alex.8932]

Just another troll-like post from mortifera, just look at his posts ^^

[Danikat.8537]

@necromaniac.7629 said:

@Danikat.8537 said:The first thing to realise is that you do not

need

any of that to play GW2.

Mount skins are purely cosmetic. I completely understand liking them and wanting to use them, but you don't

need

them. You will never find anything in the game which you cannot do because you're using the default skins.

Character combinations are almost entirely cosmetic. There are a few things which need a specific profession, race or sex but nothing which needs a set combination of all 3 so you can cover all your options with 9 characters - one of each profession, or add a 10th to cover all the race/sex combinations too. But the vast majority of stuff can be done with just 1 character.

Cosmetics is a big part of aot of people who play gw2, some people (like myself) would literally not play that one toon for a while unless for example a gem store skin you want is not currently in the gem store, you just become stressed and frustrated especially when you see people with that skin you really want, and you can do nothing but stare at the preview screen...its all apart of the roleplay....mmoRPg, point is, cosmetics is the end-game for alot of people but i get to realize that there are 2 kinds of gw2 players, roleplayers and players...

Cosmetics are important for me too. I don't actively role-play with other people much these days, but my starting point for creating a new character is often their backstory or theme and that ties into what they'll look like just as much as it determines their race, profession, what weapons they'll use and so on. But it's still true that there is nothing in the game which requires gem store skins to play.

Take mount skins for example. For the first month after Path of Fire released there were no mount skins at all and we weren't even sure Anet were going to add them except that it seemed like an obvious way to make money. So everyone had to use the default skins (some of which don't dye well). Then the only ones added were the spooky mount pack - silly Halloween themed novelty skins. Because I refused to buy the RNG only adoption licences released in November I had to wait until the branded pack was released in March 2018 - 6 months after PoF was released - to get fully dyable mounts. Then I spent ages trying to find a way to hide the branded effects so I could use them on the characters where that would be out of place. I had to wait until the Istani Isles pack was released, and I could afford to buy them (that was about May 2018), to finally get normal looking mounts with 4 dye slots so I could do something which actually fit my characters. (And that still took some careful dye jobs - I spent ages trying different reds and oranges on the iceflow jackal to make it look like a fire elemental in jackal form for my elementalist, who prefers to make her own mounts.)

But I could still play the characters during that time, I just had to make do with what was available and when necessary come up with a story to explain why they hadn't yet found their ideal mount and were making do with the one the trainer had given them.

As for character slots that's why I said, in the part of the post you cut out, to keep 1 slot free so you can experiment and buy more periodically. I always have at least 1 temporary character for trying out ideas. 4 of them have become permanent. Others I realise aren't interesting enough to actually play much, so I take some screenshots and eventually delete them and some I keep re-making and tweaking and might eventually keep. It lets me use looks that don't fit a full theme and backstory and so will likely never be used by an actual character, or experiment with ideas to see if they can work. At least one actually ended up being used in an entirely different game, because it allowed her personality to show more effectively.

[Super Hayes.6890]

@Alex.8932 said:Just another troll-like post from mortifera, just look at his posts ^^

This lol. Looks like someone likes to poke the bear to see what reaction they get.

[Obtena.7952]

@Mortifera.6138 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Mortifera.6138 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Mortifera.6138 said:First of all, you need to pay sub money on mount skins, because the original ones are ugly. After that, the character slots are just too expensive, costing $10 per slot. You realize there are people who want to play every race and sex combination? That's a lot of $10 bills. And with the expansion coming out, we'll need to upgrade our PC hardware. I think Guild Wars 2 is too expensive for me... which is a shame, because this is the best online game.

You can do this with the basic 5 slots make a human warrior play through the story delete.Make a asura warrior play through story rinse and repeat until you done all of them.About the mount skins that is subjective would still have all the basic ones if I did not splurge on branded pack awhile back.

About upgrading your pc that is needed for every game mate.

You wont be able to play current wow on the 2004 computer you had when it released.Any game releasing in 2021 would be hard to play on a 7-8 year old computer so why would gw2s next expansion be any different?

Why would I create characters i wanted to delete?

Oh read wrong well all race and sex would be 10 slots not to bad mate, just cut down a few drinks a month and you will have 5 more slots easy.

I think you still don't understand. I want every race/sex/class combination. That's hundreds of dollars in slots. People do spend that much, though I am hesitant to.

NO one is misunderstanding you ... you are mistakenly equating expensive with items you don't need to play the game. Besides ... you can have ALL the things you want without spending a DIME of real life money ... so your complain it doubly nonsensical.

[keenedge.9675]

@Mortifera.6138 said:I think you still don't understand. I want every race/sex/class combination. That's hundreds of dollars in slots. People do spend that much, though I am hesitant to.

I play the game, never buy cosmetics and use gold to buy a toon slot or 2 every sale. No $$ spent.

[DeanBB.4268]

So now anything offered for sale is "predatory?" Like when I walked down the cereal aisle at Walmart yesterday, all those shiny boxes begging me to buy them? That was WM being predatory, too?

Anyway. New players don't immediately need added bag slots. If they do their dailies, and don't waste their gold, they can easily get 18-slot bags, which will suffice until they can buy a slot. And those shiny suits? Not needed, like at all.

And here's a PSA: Do the weekly key farm. Get free stuff.

[Animism.7530]

@"DeanBB.4268" said:So now anything offered for sale is "predatory?" Like when I walked down the cereal aisle at Walmart yesterday, all those shiny boxes begging me to buy them? That was WM being predatory, too?

Anyway. New players don't immediately need added bag slots. If they do their dailies, and don't waste their gold, they can easily get 18-slot bags, which will suffice until they can buy a slot. And those shiny suits? Not needed, like at all.

And here's a PSA: Do the weekly key farm. Get free stuff.

You are playing a game. Not grocery shopping in real life.

Stop trying to justify spending real-life money amounts for clothes on in-game clothes and/or QOL items.

[Cuddy.6247]

@necromaniac.7629 said:

@"Black Wolf.7348" said:play the game to get ingame gold, use gold to buy gems and then gems to buy whatever you want. simple, easy and cheap.

you mean simple, but time-consuming and expensive any way you take it, but i manage to carry along because i play one toon 90% of the time so i get to focus on expenses for one toon. (although i wouldn't mind giving my other few toons attention)

I feel this. I pretty much have one of each race and a few spares as i try to at least make one of each class. 9 classes is a juggle on its own, timewise. gw2 is 'alt friendly' but just like any game the more consolidation you have, the farther you'll get.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

I think that the original mount skins are quite decent. To me they look nice and designed with care.

The original default glider in HoT was butt ugly, and probably designed this way to boost gemstore sales. I'm glad ANet did not repeat this with the mounts. And I think they realized that players will still buy different and flashy mount skins even if the original ones are not bad.

[robertthebard.8150]

@Animism.7530 said:

@"DeanBB.4268" said:So now anything offered for sale is "predatory?" Like when I walked down the cereal aisle at Walmart yesterday, all those shiny boxes begging me to buy them? That was WM being predatory, too?

Anyway. New players don't immediately need added bag slots. If they do their dailies, and don't waste their gold, they can easily get 18-slot bags, which will suffice until they can buy a slot. And those shiny suits? Not needed, like at all.

And here's a PSA: Do the weekly key farm. Get free stuff.

You are playing a game. Not grocery shopping in real life.

Stop trying to justify spending real-life money amounts for clothes on in-game clothes and/or QOL items.

Ok, as soon as someone points me to where the game requires me to own those outfits? Just like that poster's example of cereal in an aisle at Wal-Mart, I'm not required to buy any of that either. You see, you don't need that stuff, and it just being there, being for sale, isn't predatory.

[Sobx.1758]

@Animism.7530 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Lutharr.1035" said:i think people are purposefully ignoing what was written to just fanboy defend Anet.

When they saying paying sub money they clearly mean that in other MMO's you can get a months subscription for the price of 1 single mount skin. I wont argue if the price is fair or not tbh. But it does seem folks want to ignore the fact that the gem store is a bit predatory when it comes to items sold for convience. Oh and saying other predatory games are more predatory doesn't mean it's right to be so.

Yes, as much as you're ignoring the fact op says things like "you have to buy mount skins because base ones look worse" or character slots are too expensive because "I want every race/sex/class combination". Nothing about those cosmetic items is even close to being "must have".

How about builds for a single character, and multiple armour sets?

But, what are you trying to do here, list anything that's available for purchase? Is this anything you need to play and enjoy the game? I think it's not worth the price so I didn't buy any and I'm doing perfectly fine. What is the point you're trying to make here? Somehow you can't play the game without additional build templates, while I easly can? I don't get it.

How about bag slots for a main character that you farm with. You think people aren't going to expect being able to reasonably get those extra easy 20 slots in game, most often near the start of playing GW2? Nope. The best gold farms are time-gated, and the most repetitive ones are trash farming. But ohhhhh... only £8.50 for 40 slots.. I guess we should whip out our wallet...

To be honest, I don't exactly remember the pricing or what they were included with. I most probably bought some on sales and I didn't exactly feel the cost you're complaining about here, but I'm not sure how many I've had included with expansions and whatnot, so I can't respond with 100% certainty.What I know on the other hand is that there are 1-2 sales each year that discount the price of bag slots to 240-280 gems each. (meaning 40% and 30% discounts respectively). That's 3 bag slots for less than 10 € OR ~80-90 gold per inventory bag slot, which isn't exactly an unbelievably high amount of ingame currency to farm. Is this fair? That's subjective. But I sure don't have a problem with farming up 80-90 gold for that IF I ever need any more slots. And that's without "whipping out our wallet...", but by playing the game without constant gear treadmil, which is what you'd be perpetually farming for in other games instead.

Pretty sure saying that most good gold farms are time-gated is for the most part just... wrong.

I keep in mind that this is still a better point than what OP said, but I don't think that's remotely close to being "predatory" when you can EASLY(!!!) get that for ingame currency, especially when you start thinking about actually farming gold.

Let me sum this up for you easily and succinctly.

Ah yes, thank you for thinking about my tiny brain's limited capacity.

Take a look at the period when Legendary armour was released. How many top-tier shiny, well-designed outfits were there on the gemstore?....... How about now? Arenanet are quite literally throwing every game element at our faces for a price. If people can't see that this is disgustingly predatory with these points in mind, then I don't know what the hell they are thinking.

Ok. I'm looking at the period when legendary armor was released and see all the "shiny well-designed" (as in "badly designed" doesn't happen there, right?) fully cosmetic, absolutely unneeded, glittery glowy sexy outfits from the gemstore and all I can do is ask: how is this relevant to your point?You're literally responding to the post where I wrote (and I'm not the only one saying that btw) OP is mostly complaining about skins that DON'T DIRECTLY INFLUENCE THE GAMEPLAY, but instead are PURLY COSMETIC ITEMS and... OUTFITS IN GEMSTORE is what your "easy and succinctly summary" is primarily based on? I'm confused.

Ah and not sure why you compare legendary armors to simply over-textured outfits when legendary armors are in the category of their own in the department of utility and that's attainable through gameplay. I'm one of those people that run legendary armor for its utility/flexibility and I "skinned over it" by using an outfit that I've opened from the BL Chest using free keys I run for weekly. Maybe I'm some greatly unique example (doubt) in this case, but seriously it seems you're saying this to the wrong person. If you're interested in playing the game then play the game and there's more than you think you can get without spending actual money.

I would have rather paid a monthly subscription than be bombarded with skins and have an economy managed directly by Arenanet through gemstore sales.

That's cool, you're allowed to have that opinion. But I disagree. And out of curiosity: why do you actually care so much about new skins added to the gemstore (some of which I also bought through gold>gem conversion, but not a lot, because I don't feel the need to "catch them all")? How exactly does this UNNEEDED addition to the game change your enjoyment of playing an mmorpg?Even moreso when you'd rather pay monthly subscription...? Then pay it through gemstore, I guess?

It didn't solve real-world trading as far as I can tell and has dire consequences as we see in the present.

It is unequivocally the most loathsome part of GW2.

I don't see the relevance to my post. I don't see what "dire consequences" you're talking about here. I also don't see in what way some gemstore, fully optional skins with absolutely no power can be "the most loathsome part" of the game, but to each their own.And finally, I don't see how what you wrote after "let me sum up..." is summing up the first part of your post at all. Pretty sure it doesn't.

---

Edit:

@"DeanBB.4268" said:So now anything offered for sale is "predatory?" Like when I walked down the cereal aisle at Walmart yesterday, all those shiny boxes begging me to buy them? That was WM being predatory, too?

Anyway. New players don't immediately need added bag slots. If they do their dailies, and don't waste their gold, they can easily get 18-slot bags, which will suffice until they can buy a slot. And those shiny suits? Not needed, like at all.

And here's a PSA: Do the weekly key farm. Get free stuff.

^see, this guy gets it.

[mindcircus.1506]

@"Mortifera.6138" said:First of all, you need to pay sub money on mount skins, because the original ones are ugly. After that, the character slots are just too expensive, costing $10 per slot. You realize there are people who want to play every race and sex combination? That's a lot of $10 bills. And with the expansion coming out, we'll need to upgrade our PC hardware. I think Guild Wars 2 is too expensive for me... which is a shame, because this is the best online game.Me: "There's no way low effort troll posting on this forum could ever top the guy throwing shade on Anet for releasing the missing VAs for Icebrood 3 and 4 at the same time as the next episode."Mortifera:"Hold my beer..."

[Animism.7530]

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Animism.7530 said:

@"DeanBB.4268" said:So now anything offered for sale is "predatory?" Like when I walked down the cereal aisle at Walmart yesterday, all those shiny boxes begging me to buy them? That was WM being predatory, too?

Anyway. New players don't immediately need added bag slots. If they do their dailies, and don't waste their gold, they can easily get 18-slot bags, which will suffice until they can buy a slot. And those shiny suits? Not needed, like at all.

And here's a PSA: Do the weekly key farm. Get free stuff.

You are playing a game. Not grocery shopping in real life.

Stop trying to justify spending real-life money amounts for clothes on in-game clothes and/or QOL items.

Ok, as soon as someone points me to where the game requires me to own those outfits? Just like that poster's example of cereal in an aisle at Wal-Mart, I'm not required to buy any of that either. You see, you don't need that stuff, and it just being there, being for sale, isn't predatory.

Remind yourself of the gear progression system in this game, please.

[Animism.7530]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Animism.7530 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Lutharr.1035" said:i think people are purposefully ignoing what was written to just fanboy defend Anet.

When they saying paying sub money they clearly mean that in other MMO's you can get a months subscription for the price of 1 single mount skin. I wont argue if the price is fair or not tbh. But it does seem folks want to ignore the fact that the gem store is a bit predatory when it comes to items sold for convience. Oh and saying other predatory games are more predatory doesn't mean it's right to be so.

Yes, as much as you're ignoring the fact op says things like "you have to buy mount skins because base ones look worse" or character slots are too expensive because "I want every race/sex/class combination". Nothing about those cosmetic items is even close to being "must have".

How about builds for a single character, and multiple armour sets?

But, what are you trying to do here, list anything that's available for purchase? Is this anything you need to play and enjoy the game? I think it's not worth the price

so I didn't buy any and I'm doing perfectly fine

. What is the point you're trying to make here? Somehow you can't play the game without additional build templates, while I easly can? I don't get it.

How about bag slots for a main character that you farm with. You think people aren't going to expect being able to reasonably get those extra easy 20 slots in game, most often near the start of playing GW2? Nope. The best gold farms are time-gated, and the most repetitive ones are trash farming. But ohhhhh... only £8.50 for 40 slots.. I guess we should whip out our wallet...

To be honest, I don't exactly remember the pricing or what they were included with. I most probably bought some on sales and I didn't exactly feel the cost you're complaining about here, but I'm not sure how many I've had included with expansions and whatnot, so I can't respond with 100% certainty.What I know on the other hand is that there are 1-2 sales each year that discount the price of bag slots to 240-280 gems each. (meaning 40% and 30% discounts respectively). That's 3 bag slots for less than 10 €

OR ~80-90 gold per inventory bag slot, which isn't exactly an unbelievably high amount of ingame currency to farm

. Is this fair? That's subjective. But I sure don't have a problem with farming up 80-90 gold for that IF I ever need any more slots. And that's without "whipping out our wallet...", but by playing the game without constant gear treadmil, which is what you'd be perpetually farming for in other games instead.

Pretty sure saying that most good gold farms are time-gated is for the most part just... wrong.

I keep in mind that

this is still a better point than what OP said

, but I don't think that's remotely close to being "predatory" when you can EASLY(!!!) get that for ingame currency, especially when you start thinking about actually farming gold.

Let me sum this up for you easily and succinctly.

Ah yes, thank you for thinking about my tiny brain's limited capacity.

Take a look at the period when Legendary armour was released. How many top-tier shiny, well-designed outfits were there on the gemstore?....... How about now? Arenanet are quite literally throwing every game element at our faces for a price. If people can't see that this is disgustingly predatory with these points in mind, then I don't know what the hell they are thinking.

Ok. I'm looking at the period when legendary armor was released and see all the "shiny well-designed" (as in "badly designed" doesn't happen there, right?)

fully cosmetic, absolutely unneeded, glittery glowy sexy outfits from the gemstore

and all I can do is ask: how is this relevant to your point?You're literally responding to the post where I wrote (and I'm not the only one saying that btw) OP is mostly complaining about skins that DON'T DIRECTLY INFLUENCE THE GAMEPLAY, but instead are PURLY COSMETIC ITEMS and... OUTFITS IN GEMSTORE is what your "easy and succinctly summary" is primarily based on? I'm confused.

Ah and not sure why you compare legendary armors to simply over-textured outfits when legendary armors are in the category of their own in the department of utility and that's attainable through gameplay. I'm one of those people that run legendary armor for its utility/flexibility and I "skinned over it" by using an outfit that I've opened from the BL Chest using

free keys

I run for weekly. Maybe I'm some greatly unique example (doubt) in this case, but seriously it seems you're saying this to the wrong person. If you're interested in playing the game then play the game and there's more than you think you can get without spending actual money.

I would have rather paid a monthly subscription than be bombarded with skins and have an economy managed directly by Arenanet through gemstore sales.

That's cool, you're allowed to have that opinion. But I disagree. And out of curiosity: why do you actually care so much about new skins added to the gemstore (some of which I also bought through gold>gem conversion, but not a lot, because I don't feel the need to "catch them all")? How exactly does this UNNEEDED addition to the game change your enjoyment of playing an mmorpg?Even moreso when you'd rather pay monthly subscription...? Then pay it through gemstore, I guess?

It didn't solve real-world trading as far as I can tell

and has dire consequences as we see in the present.

It is unequivocally the most loathsome part of GW2.

I don't see the relevance to my post.

I don't see what "dire consequences" you're talking about here. I also don't see in what way some gemstore, fully optional skins with absolutely no power can be "the most loathsome part" of the game, but to each their own.And finally, I don't see how what you wrote after "let me sum up..." is summing up the first part of your post at all. Pretty sure it doesn't.

---

Edit:

@"DeanBB.4268" said:So now anything offered for sale is "predatory?" Like when I walked down the cereal aisle at Walmart yesterday, all those shiny boxes begging me to buy them? That was WM being predatory, too?

Anyway. New players don't immediately need added bag slots. If they do their dailies, and don't waste their gold, they can easily get 18-slot bags, which will suffice until they can buy a slot. And those shiny suits? Not needed, like at all.

And here's a PSA: Do the weekly key farm. Get free stuff.

^see, this guy gets it.

That is a lengthy response and it's pretty clear that not only do you personally disagree with some points; you also misunderstand and misread some.

1. There are multiple builds for each profession. It should be assumed that people are going to want to play and save more than a few builds. This obviously becomes an issue with multiple characters and limited space to hold builds.
2. Trying to justify the accessibility by suggesting a sale that only occurs twice a year is pretty ridiculous. Your argument also perfectly outlines the problem of the gem store and aggressive design of the game equally encouraging you to make a purchase with your wallet.
3. I didn't say good farms, I said the best. This is of course referring to Fractal dailies.
4. See previous comment to other participant in conversation.
5. The price point of legendary armour and the functionality is jarring. It's generally intended as a top-tier cosmetic skin. Point being, different variants of legendary armours are not being created; and most certainly not to the degree of the flashy gemstore skins. See point 4.
6. For all your comments after, see point 4...

[kharmin.7683]

@Animism.7530 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Animism.7530 said:

@"DeanBB.4268" said:So now anything offered for sale is "predatory?" Like when I walked down the cereal aisle at Walmart yesterday, all those shiny boxes begging me to buy them? That was WM being predatory, too?

Anyway. New players don't immediately need added bag slots. If they do their dailies, and don't waste their gold, they can easily get 18-slot bags, which will suffice until they can buy a slot. And those shiny suits? Not needed, like at all.

And here's a PSA: Do the weekly key farm. Get free stuff.

You are playing a game. Not grocery shopping in real life.

Stop trying to justify spending real-life money amounts for clothes on in-game clothes and/or QOL items.

Ok, as soon as someone points me to where the game requires me to own those outfits? Just like that poster's example of cereal in an aisle at Wal-Mart, I'm not required to buy any of that either. You see, you don't need that stuff, and it just being there, being for sale, isn't predatory.

Remind yourself of the gear progression system in this game, please.

There's gear progression in GW2?

[Animism.7530]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Animism.7530 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Animism.7530 said:

@"DeanBB.4268" said:So now anything offered for sale is "predatory?" Like when I walked down the cereal aisle at Walmart yesterday, all those shiny boxes begging me to buy them? That was WM being predatory, too?

Anyway. New players don't immediately need added bag slots. If they do their dailies, and don't waste their gold, they can easily get 18-slot bags, which will suffice until they can buy a slot. And those shiny suits? Not needed, like at all.

And here's a PSA: Do the weekly key farm. Get free stuff.

You are playing a game. Not grocery shopping in real life.

Stop trying to justify spending real-life money amounts for clothes on in-game clothes and/or QOL items.

Ok, as soon as someone points me to where the game requires me to own those outfits? Just like that poster's example of cereal in an aisle at Wal-Mart, I'm not required to buy any of that either. You see, you don't need that stuff, and it just being there, being for sale, isn't predatory.

Remind yourself of the gear progression system in this game, please.

There's gear progression in GW2?

Wow. Arenanet have stated it themselves enough, I have no need to provide you with the many videos detailing this fact.

[Sobx.1758]

@Animism.7530 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Animism.7530 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Lutharr.1035" said:i think people are purposefully ignoing what was written to just fanboy defend Anet.

When they saying paying sub money they clearly mean that in other MMO's you can get a months subscription for the price of 1 single mount skin. I wont argue if the price is fair or not tbh. But it does seem folks want to ignore the fact that the gem store is a bit predatory when it comes to items sold for convience. Oh and saying other predatory games are more predatory doesn't mean it's right to be so.

Yes, as much as you're ignoring the fact op says things like "you have to buy mount skins because base ones look worse" or character slots are too expensive because "I want every race/sex/class combination". Nothing about those cosmetic items is even close to being "must have".

How about builds for a single character, and multiple armour sets?

But, what are you trying to do here, list anything that's available for purchase? Is this anything you need to play and enjoy the game? I think it's not worth the price

so I didn't buy any and I'm doing perfectly fine

. What is the point you're trying to make here? Somehow you can't play the game without additional build templates, while I easly can? I don't get it.

How about bag slots for a main character that you farm with. You think people aren't going to expect being able to reasonably get those extra easy 20 slots in game, most often near the start of playing GW2? Nope. The best gold farms are time-gated, and the most repetitive ones are trash farming. But ohhhhh... only £8.50 for 40 slots.. I guess we should whip out our wallet...

To be honest, I don't exactly remember the pricing or what they were included with. I most probably bought some on sales and I didn't exactly feel the cost you're complaining about here, but I'm not sure how many I've had included with expansions and whatnot, so I can't respond with 100% certainty.What I know on the other hand is that there are 1-2 sales each year that discount the price of bag slots to 240-280 gems each. (meaning 40% and 30% discounts respectively). That's 3 bag slots for less than 10 €

OR ~80-90 gold per inventory bag slot, which isn't exactly an unbelievably high amount of ingame currency to farm

. Is this fair? That's subjective. But I sure don't have a problem with farming up 80-90 gold for that IF I ever need any more slots. And that's without "whipping out our wallet...", but by playing the game without constant gear treadmil, which is what you'd be perpetually farming for in other games instead.

Pretty sure saying that most good gold farms are time-gated is for the most part just... wrong.

I keep in mind that

this is still a better point than what OP said

, but I don't think that's remotely close to being "predatory" when you can EASLY(!!!) get that for ingame currency, especially when you start thinking about actually farming gold.

Let me sum this up for you easily and succinctly.

Ah yes, thank you for thinking about my tiny brain's limited capacity.

Take a look at the period when Legendary armour was released. How many top-tier shiny, well-designed outfits were there on the gemstore?....... How about now? Arenanet are quite literally throwing every game element at our faces for a price. If people can't see that this is disgustingly predatory with these points in mind, then I don't know what the hell they are thinking.

Ok. I'm looking at the period when legendary armor was released and see all the "shiny well-designed" (as in "badly designed" doesn't happen there, right?)

fully cosmetic, absolutely unneeded, glittery glowy sexy outfits from the gemstore

and all I can do is ask: how is this relevant to your point?You're literally responding to the post where I wrote (and I'm not the only one saying that btw) OP is mostly complaining about skins that DON'T DIRECTLY INFLUENCE THE GAMEPLAY, but instead are PURLY COSMETIC ITEMS and... OUTFITS IN GEMSTORE is what your "easy and succinctly summary" is primarily based on? I'm confused.

Ah and not sure why you compare legendary armors to simply over-textured outfits when legendary armors are in the category of their own in the department of utility and that's attainable through gameplay. I'm one of those people that run legendary armor for its utility/flexibility and I "skinned over it" by using an outfit that I've opened from the BL Chest using

free keys

I run for weekly. Maybe I'm some greatly unique example (doubt) in this case, but seriously it seems you're saying this to the wrong person. If you're interested in playing the game then play the game and there's more than you think you can get without spending actual money.

I would have rather paid a monthly subscription than be bombarded with skins and have an economy managed directly by Arenanet through gemstore sales.

That's cool, you're allowed to have that opinion. But I disagree. And out of curiosity: why do you actually care so much about new skins added to the gemstore (some of which I also bought through gold>gem conversion, but not a lot, because I don't feel the need to "catch them all")? How exactly does this UNNEEDED addition to the game change your enjoyment of playing an mmorpg?Even moreso when you'd rather pay monthly subscription...? Then pay it through gemstore, I guess?

It didn't solve real-world trading as far as I can tell

and has dire consequences as we see in the present.

It is unequivocally the most loathsome part of GW2.

I don't see the relevance to my post.

I don't see what "dire consequences" you're talking about here. I also don't see in what way some gemstore, fully optional skins with absolutely no power can be "the most loathsome part" of the game, but to each their own.And finally, I don't see how what you wrote after "let me sum up..." is summing up the first part of your post at all. Pretty sure it doesn't.

---

Edit:

@"DeanBB.4268" said:So now anything offered for sale is "predatory?" Like when I walked down the cereal aisle at Walmart yesterday, all those shiny boxes begging me to buy them? That was WM being predatory, too?

Anyway. New players don't immediately need added bag slots. If they do their dailies, and don't waste their gold, they can easily get 18-slot bags, which will suffice until they can buy a slot. And those shiny suits? Not needed, like at all.

And here's a PSA: Do the weekly key farm. Get free stuff.

^see, this guy gets it.

That is a lengthy response and it's pretty clear that not only do you personally disagree with some points; you also misunderstand and misread some.

1. There are multiple builds for each profession. It should be assumed that people are going to want to play and save more than a few builds. This obviously becomes an issue with multiple characters and limited space to hold builds.
2. Trying to justify the accessibility by suggesting a sale that only occurs twice a year is pretty ridiculous. Your argument also perfectly outlines the problem of the gem store and aggressive design of the game equally encouraging you to make a purchase with your wallet.
3. I didn't say good farms, I said the best. This is of course referring to Fractal dailies.
4. See previous comment to other participant in conversation.
5. The price point of legendary armour and the functionality is jarring. It's generally intended as a top-tier cosmetic skin. Point being, different variants of legendary armours are not being created; and most certainly not to the degree of the flashy gemstore skins. See point 4.
6. For all your comments after, see point 4...

Yup, that was a longer response than I was planning to go for, but it's simply because I've wanted to accurately answer to what you wrote, with examples if possible. Of course it's based on personal experience, why would I (or you) discredit it? (yes, this is a real question -if you wouldn't, then I don't understand what's wrong about that approach and why is this worth pointing out in the first place)

1. Yes there are. Yes, I'm using multiple builds per class on multiple classes. No, I still didn't get additional build templates, because it's not needed, I know my traits and builds and if somehow I hadn't, I'd re-read the traits (which at that point I'd need to do anyways to use the build effectively). I don't see the issue. It IS a QoL purchase, but it is NOT needed. Not sure there's anything you can say to convince me otherwise seeing as I'm literally speaking from my own experience.2. Why is it ridiculous? I did it this way, why would anyone else not be able to do the same?(without a sale it's 130 gold > 400 gems, still attainable through regular ingame farming, but if we know these "items" go on sale then why not just wait for them?)It only "encourages you to make a purchase with your wallet" if you're not interested in getting it through gameplay and represent the "I NEED EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW" attitude. That's a "you" problem in my book, so I definitely disagree and you didn't really say anything to challenge what I've said about these items being attainable through ingame currency.3. Cool. What's the difference between "good" and "best"? Which are which? Why are you only able to use "best" but not just "good" (even if only after the timegated ones)? How does it change what I said at all?Fractal dailies are easy gold source, but that's not a "gold farming" content (as in you finish that rather fast, nothing about that is even close to regular mmo grinding/farming). And what are you complaining about here? That you get too much gold daily so you either need to farm something less optimal OR wait 3 days to buy what you want? How is this a valid complaint in MMO again?4. What? Maybe just answer to what I said instead, because I don't know what you're referring to.5. "It's generally intended as a top-tier cosmetic skin" -No, it's not, it has its own utility and as I said above I have a pretty solid proof for that in form of... myself.As for the other complaint: remind yourself how much legendary armor set costs. Then take that gold, convert to gems and buy any outfit you want. What was the argument here again?6. What? Maybe just answer to what I said instead, because I don't know what you're referring to.

[Hesione.9412]

@Animism.7530 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Animism.7530 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Animism.7530 said:

@"DeanBB.4268" said:So now anything offered for sale is "predatory?" Like when I walked down the cereal aisle at Walmart yesterday, all those shiny boxes begging me to buy them? That was WM being predatory, too?

Anyway. New players don't immediately need added bag slots. If they do their dailies, and don't waste their gold, they can easily get 18-slot bags, which will suffice until they can buy a slot. And those shiny suits? Not needed, like at all.

And here's a PSA: Do the weekly key farm. Get free stuff.

You are playing a game. Not grocery shopping in real life.

Stop trying to justify spending real-life money amounts for clothes on in-game clothes and/or QOL items.

Ok, as soon as someone points me to where the game requires me to own those outfits? Just like that poster's example of cereal in an aisle at Wal-Mart, I'm not required to buy any of that either. You see, you don't need that stuff, and it just being there, being for sale, isn't predatory.

Remind yourself of the gear progression system in this game, please.

There's gear progression in GW2?

Wow. Arenanet have stated it themselves enough, I have no need to provide you with the many videos detailing this fact.

The commons you get for free, then the uncommons you get for free, then the rares you get for free, then the exotics that drop less frequently but are typically cheap on the TP, the the ascended that people craft, through mats they farm themselves, to legendaries that require effort (but are more for looks/convenience).

That's the gear progression. PvP doesn't even need you to be in common gear, because gear is ignored - apart from what weapons you equip, because that controls 1-5 skills. Everything outside of raids, wvw, and (higher level) fractals can be done in rares.

[SinisterSlay.6973]

I personally find the dollar price of gems absurd. Especially once converted to Canadian.But honestly the price of everything in the world makes no sense. A can of coke is $2, costs 0.05 cents to make. A&W burger can be $10+. A tank of gas is $40. And a single chance at a mount skin is $20. At least you keep the skin for as long as the game lasts. So it's arguably good value?

But I have never bought any gems, and I still have one of every character class, 3 extra banks, several outfits, build templates, skins, mounts. GW2 lets you pay the whales for the gems they bought with gold that you farmed for. Seems fair.

I don't think we are ever going to see another micro(macro?)transaction store that doesn't specifically target whales.

[Animism.7530]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Animism.7530 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Animism.7530 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Lutharr.1035" said:i think people are purposefully ignoing what was written to just fanboy defend Anet.

When they saying paying sub money they clearly mean that in other MMO's you can get a months subscription for the price of 1 single mount skin. I wont argue if the price is fair or not tbh. But it does seem folks want to ignore the fact that the gem store is a bit predatory when it comes to items sold for convience. Oh and saying other predatory games are more predatory doesn't mean it's right to be so.

Yes, as much as you're ignoring the fact op says things like "you have to buy mount skins because base ones look worse" or character slots are too expensive because "I want every race/sex/class combination". Nothing about those cosmetic items is even close to being "must have".

How about builds for a single character, and multiple armour sets?

But, what are you trying to do here, list anything that's available for purchase? Is this anything you need to play and enjoy the game? I think it's not worth the price

so I didn't buy any and I'm doing perfectly fine

. What is the point you're trying to make here? Somehow you can't play the game without additional build templates, while I easly can? I don't get it.

How about bag slots for a main character that you farm with. You think people aren't going to expect being able to reasonably get those extra easy 20 slots in game, most often near the start of playing GW2? Nope. The best gold farms are time-gated, and the most repetitive ones are trash farming. But ohhhhh... only £8.50 for 40 slots.. I guess we should whip out our wallet...

To be honest, I don't exactly remember the pricing or what they were included with. I most probably bought some on sales and I didn't exactly feel the cost you're complaining about here, but I'm not sure how many I've had included with expansions and whatnot, so I can't respond with 100% certainty.What I know on the other hand is that there are 1-2 sales each year that discount the price of bag slots to 240-280 gems each. (meaning 40% and 30% discounts respectively). That's 3 bag slots for less than 10 €

OR ~80-90 gold per inventory bag slot, which isn't exactly an unbelievably high amount of ingame currency to farm

. Is this fair? That's subjective. But I sure don't have a problem with farming up 80-90 gold for that IF I ever need any more slots. And that's without "whipping out our wallet...", but by playing the game without constant gear treadmil, which is what you'd be perpetually farming for in other games instead.

Pretty sure saying that most good gold farms are time-gated is for the most part just... wrong.

I keep in mind that

this is still a better point than what OP said

, but I don't think that's remotely close to being "predatory" when you can EASLY(!!!) get that for ingame currency, especially when you start thinking about actually farming gold.

Let me sum this up for you easily and succinctly.

Ah yes, thank you for thinking about my tiny brain's limited capacity.

Take a look at the period when Legendary armour was released. How many top-tier shiny, well-designed outfits were there on the gemstore?....... How about now? Arenanet are quite literally throwing every game element at our faces for a price. If people can't see that this is disgustingly predatory with these points in mind, then I don't know what the hell they are thinking.

Ok. I'm looking at the period when legendary armor was released and see all the "shiny well-designed" (as in "badly designed" doesn't happen there, right?)

fully cosmetic, absolutely unneeded, glittery glowy sexy outfits from the gemstore

and all I can do is ask: how is this relevant to your point?You're literally responding to the post where I wrote (and I'm not the only one saying that btw) OP is mostly complaining about skins that DON'T DIRECTLY INFLUENCE THE GAMEPLAY, but instead are PURLY COSMETIC ITEMS and... OUTFITS IN GEMSTORE is what your "easy and succinctly summary" is primarily based on? I'm confused.

Ah and not sure why you compare legendary armors to simply over-textured outfits when legendary armors are in the category of their own in the department of utility and that's attainable through gameplay. I'm one of those people that run legendary armor for its utility/flexibility and I "skinned over it" by using an outfit that I've opened from the BL Chest using

free keys

I run for weekly. Maybe I'm some greatly unique example (doubt) in this case, but seriously it seems you're saying this to the wrong person. If you're interested in playing the game then play the game and there's more than you think you can get without spending actual money.

I would have rather paid a monthly subscription than be bombarded with skins and have an economy managed directly by Arenanet through gemstore sales.

That's cool, you're allowed to have that opinion. But I disagree. And out of curiosity: why do you actually care so much about new skins added to the gemstore (some of which I also bought through gold>gem conversion, but not a lot, because I don't feel the need to "catch them all")? How exactly does this UNNEEDED addition to the game change your enjoyment of playing an mmorpg?Even moreso when you'd rather pay monthly subscription...? Then pay it through gemstore, I guess?

It didn't solve real-world trading as far as I can tell

and has dire consequences as we see in the present.

It is unequivocally the most loathsome part of GW2.

I don't see the relevance to my post.

I don't see what "dire consequences" you're talking about here. I also don't see in what way some gemstore, fully optional skins with absolutely no power can be "the most loathsome part" of the game, but to each their own.And finally, I don't see how what you wrote after "let me sum up..." is summing up the first part of your post at all. Pretty sure it doesn't.

---

Edit:

@"DeanBB.4268" said:So now anything offered for sale is "predatory?" Like when I walked down the cereal aisle at Walmart yesterday, all those shiny boxes begging me to buy them? That was WM being predatory, too?

Anyway. New players don't immediately need added bag slots. If they do their dailies, and don't waste their gold, they can easily get 18-slot bags, which will suffice until they can buy a slot. And those shiny suits? Not needed, like at all.

And here's a PSA: Do the weekly key farm. Get free stuff.

^see, this guy gets it.

That is a lengthy response and it's pretty clear that not only do you personally disagree with some points; you also misunderstand and misread some.

1. There are multiple builds for each profession. It should be assumed that people are going to want to play and save more than a few builds. This obviously becomes an issue with multiple characters and limited space to hold builds.
2. Trying to justify the accessibility by suggesting a sale that only occurs twice a year is pretty ridiculous. Your argument also perfectly outlines the problem of the gem store and aggressive design of the game equally encouraging you to make a purchase with your wallet.
3. I didn't say good farms, I said the best. This is of course referring to Fractal dailies.
4. See previous comment to other participant in conversation.
5. The price point of legendary armour and the functionality is jarring. It's generally intended as a top-tier cosmetic skin. Point being, different variants of legendary armours are not being created; and most certainly not to the degree of the flashy gemstore skins. See point 4.
6. For all your comments after, see point 4...

Yup, that was a longer response than I was planning to go for, but it's simply because I've wanted to accurately answer to what you wrote, with examples if possible. Of course it's based on personal experience, why would I (or you) discredit it? (yes, this is a real question -if you wouldn't, then I don't understand what's wrong about that approach and why is this worth pointing out in the first place)

1.

Yes there are. Yes, I'm using multiple builds per class on multiple classes. No, I still didn't get additional build templates, because it's not needed, I know my traits and builds and if somehow I hadn't, I'd re-read the traits (which at that point I'd need to do anyways to use the build effectively). I don't see the issue. It IS a QoL purchase, but it is NOT needed. Not sure there's anything you can say to convince me otherwise seeing as I'm literally speaking from my own experience.

2.

Why is it ridiculous? I did it this way, why would anyone else not be able to do the same?(without a sale it's 130 gold > 400 gems, still attainable through regular ingame farming, but if we know these "items" go on sale then why not just wait for them?)It only "encourages you to make a purchase with your wallet" if you're not interested in getting it through gameplay and represent the "I NEED EVERYTHING

RIGHT NOW

" attitude. That's a "you" problem in my book, so I definitely disagree and you didn't really say anything to challenge what I've said about these items being attainable through ingame currency.

3.

Cool. What's the difference between "good" and "best"? Which are which? Why are you only able to use "best" but not just "good" (even if only after the timegated ones)? How does it change what I said at all?Fractal dailies are easy gold source, but that's not a "gold farming" content (as in you finish that rather fast, nothing about that is even close to regular mmo grinding/farming). And what are you complaining about here? That you get too much gold daily so you either need to farm something less optimal OR wait 3 days to buy what you want? How is this a valid complaint again?

4.

What? Maybe just answer to what I said instead, because I don't know what you're referring to.

5.

"It's generally intended as a top-tier cosmetic skin" -No, it's not, it has its own utility and as I said above I have a pretty solid proof for that in form of... myself.As for the other complaint: remind yourself how much legendary armor set costs. Then take that gold, convert to gems and buy any outfit you want. What was the argument here again?

6.

What? Maybe just answer to what I said instead, because I don't know what you're referring to.

You are clearly missing the point to a degree that it seems you are just arguing for the sake of it, with no attempt of analysing what I'm proposing (or to you as you seem to misunderstand, may be proposing). But I will continue as if it is intended in good faith.

1. Congratulations on knowing your traits for all builds; you're likely a minority in that regard. Keep that in mind as to the viability of the game to the general public.
2. "I did it, why can't others". I'm not going to give this more of a response as it is pretty obvious that it relates directly to accessibility/playing periodically.
3. Because analysing the viability of farming for an item over time is generally done first and foremost from the best sources, (ie, real life money vs time spent in game farming). Diminishing returns is acceptable, stylised design to inherently encourage micro-transactions for the majority of farmed-for prestigious items is not.

Let me just stop my comment right here and reiterate that Guild Wars 2 has a horizontal progression system, focused on grinding for cosmetic items.Let us suppose for a second we are in a game with a 'power creep', 'vertical' progression system, would you find it acceptable to be able to pay for microtransactions to progress this? I understand power and cosmetics are not exactly the same thing, but the principle is there loud and clear.

Case study: Runescape 3. Check out what people think of microtransactions in relation to this principle. Do you really think this system of cosmetics simply validates this?

[Linken.6345]

@Animism.7530 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Animism.7530 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Animism.7530 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Lutharr.1035" said:i think people are purposefully ignoing what was written to just fanboy defend Anet.

When they saying paying sub money they clearly mean that in other MMO's you can get a months subscription for the price of 1 single mount skin. I wont argue if the price is fair or not tbh. But it does seem folks want to ignore the fact that the gem store is a bit predatory when it comes to items sold for convience. Oh and saying other predatory games are more predatory doesn't mean it's right to be so.

Yes, as much as you're ignoring the fact op says things like "you have to buy mount skins because base ones look worse" or character slots are too expensive because "I want every race/sex/class combination". Nothing about those cosmetic items is even close to being "must have".

How about builds for a single character, and multiple armour sets?

But, what are you trying to do here, list anything that's available for purchase? Is this anything you need to play and enjoy the game? I think it's not worth the price

so I didn't buy any and I'm doing perfectly fine

. What is the point you're trying to make here? Somehow you can't play the game without additional build templates, while I easly can? I don't get it.

How about bag slots for a main character that you farm with. You think people aren't going to expect being able to reasonably get those extra easy 20 slots in game, most often near the start of playing GW2? Nope. The best gold farms are time-gated, and the most repetitive ones are trash farming. But ohhhhh... only £8.50 for 40 slots.. I guess we should whip out our wallet...

To be honest, I don't exactly remember the pricing or what they were included with. I most probably bought some on sales and I didn't exactly feel the cost you're complaining about here, but I'm not sure how many I've had included with expansions and whatnot, so I can't respond with 100% certainty.What I know on the other hand is that there are 1-2 sales each year that discount the price of bag slots to 240-280 gems each. (meaning 40% and 30% discounts respectively). That's 3 bag slots for less than 10 €

OR ~80-90 gold per inventory bag slot, which isn't exactly an unbelievably high amount of ingame currency to farm

. Is this fair? That's subjective. But I sure don't have a problem with farming up 80-90 gold for that IF I ever need any more slots. And that's without "whipping out our wallet...", but by playing the game without constant gear treadmil, which is what you'd be perpetually farming for in other games instead.

Pretty sure saying that most good gold farms are time-gated is for the most part just... wrong.

I keep in mind that

this is still a better point than what OP said

, but I don't think that's remotely close to being "predatory" when you can EASLY(!!!) get that for ingame currency, especially when you start thinking about actually farming gold.

Let me sum this up for you easily and succinctly.

Ah yes, thank you for thinking about my tiny brain's limited capacity.

Take a look at the period when Legendary armour was released. How many top-tier shiny, well-designed outfits were there on the gemstore?....... How about now? Arenanet are quite literally throwing every game element at our faces for a price. If people can't see that this is disgustingly predatory with these points in mind, then I don't know what the hell they are thinking.

Ok. I'm looking at the period when legendary armor was released and see all the "shiny well-designed" (as in "badly designed" doesn't happen there, right?)

fully cosmetic, absolutely unneeded, glittery glowy sexy outfits from the gemstore

and all I can do is ask: how is this relevant to your point?You're literally responding to the post where I wrote (and I'm not the only one saying that btw) OP is mostly complaining about skins that DON'T DIRECTLY INFLUENCE THE GAMEPLAY, but instead are PURLY COSMETIC ITEMS and... OUTFITS IN GEMSTORE is what your "easy and succinctly summary" is primarily based on? I'm confused.

Ah and not sure why you compare legendary armors to simply over-textured outfits when legendary armors are in the category of their own in the department of utility and that's attainable through gameplay. I'm one of those people that run legendary armor for its utility/flexibility and I "skinned over it" by using an outfit that I've opened from the BL Chest using

free keys

I run for weekly. Maybe I'm some greatly unique example (doubt) in this case, but seriously it seems you're saying this to the wrong person. If you're interested in playing the game then play the game and there's more than you think you can get without spending actual money.

I would have rather paid a monthly subscription than be bombarded with skins and have an economy managed directly by Arenanet through gemstore sales.

That's cool, you're allowed to have that opinion. But I disagree. And out of curiosity: why do you actually care so much about new skins added to the gemstore (some of which I also bought through gold>gem conversion, but not a lot, because I don't feel the need to "catch them all")? How exactly does this UNNEEDED addition to the game change your enjoyment of playing an mmorpg?Even moreso when you'd rather pay monthly subscription...? Then pay it through gemstore, I guess?

It didn't solve real-world trading as far as I can tell

and has dire consequences as we see in the present.

It is unequivocally the most loathsome part of GW2.

I don't see the relevance to my post.

I don't see what "dire consequences" you're talking about here. I also don't see in what way some gemstore, fully optional skins with absolutely no power can be "the most loathsome part" of the game, but to each their own.And finally, I don't see how what you wrote after "let me sum up..." is summing up the first part of your post at all. Pretty sure it doesn't.

---

Edit:

@"DeanBB.4268" said:So now anything offered for sale is "predatory?" Like when I walked down the cereal aisle at Walmart yesterday, all those shiny boxes begging me to buy them? That was WM being predatory, too?

Anyway. New players don't immediately need added bag slots. If they do their dailies, and don't waste their gold, they can easily get 18-slot bags, which will suffice until they can buy a slot. And those shiny suits? Not needed, like at all.

And here's a PSA: Do the weekly key farm. Get free stuff.

^see, this guy gets it.

That is a lengthy response and it's pretty clear that not only do you personally disagree with some points; you also misunderstand and misread some.

1. There are multiple builds for each profession. It should be assumed that people are going to want to play and save more than a few builds. This obviously becomes an issue with multiple characters and limited space to hold builds.
2. Trying to justify the accessibility by suggesting a sale that only occurs twice a year is pretty ridiculous. Your argument also perfectly outlines the problem of the gem store and aggressive design of the game equally encouraging you to make a purchase with your wallet.
3. I didn't say good farms, I said the best. This is of course referring to Fractal dailies.
4. See previous comment to other participant in conversation.
5. The price point of legendary armour and the functionality is jarring. It's generally intended as a top-tier cosmetic skin. Point being, different variants of legendary armours are not being created; and most certainly not to the degree of the flashy gemstore skins. See point 4.
6. For all your comments after, see point 4...

Yup, that was a longer response than I was planning to go for, but it's simply because I've wanted to accurately answer to what you wrote, with examples if possible. Of course it's based on personal experience, why would I (or you) discredit it? (yes, this is a real question -if you wouldn't, then I don't understand what's wrong about that approach and why is this worth pointing out in the first place)

1.

Yes there are. Yes, I'm using multiple builds per class on multiple classes. No, I still didn't get additional build templates, because it's not needed, I know my traits and builds and if somehow I hadn't, I'd re-read the traits (which at that point I'd need to do anyways to use the build effectively). I don't see the issue. It IS a QoL purchase, but it is NOT needed. Not sure there's anything you can say to convince me otherwise seeing as I'm literally speaking from my own experience.

2.

Why is it ridiculous? I did it this way, why would anyone else not be able to do the same?(without a sale it's 130 gold > 400 gems, still attainable through regular ingame farming, but if we know these "items" go on sale then why not just wait for them?)It only "encourages you to make a purchase with your wallet" if you're not interested in getting it through gameplay and represent the "I NEED EVERYTHING

RIGHT NOW

" attitude. That's a "you" problem in my book, so I definitely disagree and you didn't really say anything to challenge what I've said about these items being attainable through ingame currency.

3.

Cool. What's the difference between "good" and "best"? Which are which? Why are you only able to use "best" but not just "good" (even if only after the timegated ones)? How does it change what I said at all?Fractal dailies are easy gold source, but that's not a "gold farming" content (as in you finish that rather fast, nothing about that is even close to regular mmo grinding/farming). And what are you complaining about here? That you get too much gold daily so you either need to farm something less optimal OR wait 3 days to buy what you want? How is this a valid complaint again?

4.

What? Maybe just answer to what I said instead, because I don't know what you're referring to.

5.

"It's generally intended as a top-tier cosmetic skin" -No, it's not, it has its own utility and as I said above I have a pretty solid proof for that in form of... myself.As for the other complaint: remind yourself how much legendary armor set costs. Then take that gold, convert to gems and buy any outfit you want. What was the argument here again?

6.

What? Maybe just answer to what I said instead, because I don't know what you're referring to.

You are clearly missing the point to a degree that it seems you are just arguing for the sake of it, with no attempt of analysing what I'm proposing (or to you as you seem to misunderstand,

may

be proposing). But I will continue as if it is intended in good faith.

1. Congratulations on knowing your traits for all builds; you're likely a minority in that regard. Keep that in mind as to the viability of the game to the general public.
2. "I did it, why can't others". I'm not going to give this more of a response as it is pretty obvious that it relates directly to accessibility/playing periodically.
3. Because analysing the viability of farming for an item over time is generally done first and foremost from the best sources, (ie, real life money vs time spent in game farming). Diminishing returns is acceptable, stylised design to inherently encourage micro-transactions for the majority of farmed-for prestigious items is not.

Let me just stop my comment right here and reiterate that Guild Wars 2 has a horizontal progression system, focused on grinding for cosmetic items.Let us suppose for a second we are in a game with a 'power creep', 'vertical' progression system, would you find it acceptable to be able to pay for microtransactions to progress this? I understand power and cosmetics are not exactly the same thing, but the principle is there loud and clear.

Case study: Runescape 3. Check out what people think of microtransactions in relation to this principle. Do you really think this system of cosmetics simply validates this?

Yes I do.