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No more chore-I mean "hearts" please!


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2 minutes ago, Jilora.9524 said:

You legit call hearts static quests in the 1st post. 

Events are events

Hearts are quests

Yes different

I didn't call hearts static quests

I said the game was not about static quests

 

I always refer to hearts themselves as chores, rather than quests.

quest should suggest something of an adventure (not to be confused with what the game calls 'adventures" which are minigames rather than adventures), just previous MMO's have ruined that by making a lot of them chores instead.

but no hearts are not quests.

there's nothing adventurous about any of them.

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1 minute ago, Devildoc.6721 said:

I didn't call hearts static quests

I said the game was not about static quests

 

I always refer to hearts themselves as chores, rather than quests.

quest should suggest something of an adventure (not to be confused with what the game calls 'adventures" which are minigames rather than adventures), just previous MMO's have ruined that by making a lot of them chores instead.

but no hearts are not quests.

there's nothing adventurous about any of them.

No you have tried really hard to say chore everytime and failed. You are trying to make chore the same thing as a task or a quest or a heart. You just don't find hearts fun so it's a chore to you but fun is subjective and some in this thread like hearts. I don't find story fun so it's a chore to me because we find different things unfun and you feel forced to do them instead of enjoying doing them. I would love to skip thru all the dialog and cutscenes but would never ask that to be removed just because I find it unfun because many others love story. 

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Hearts were fine. Repeatable hearts that lock a vendor are not.

I liked HoT for not having any. When they came back in LS3 and locked vendors I immediately lost interest and have basically played 0 living story since except to open a reward track. I also have not even finished PoF either.

Incidentially I liked the hearts in Queensdale, and kinda disliked them being simplified via NPE.

I have a grand total of 1 map completion for Core Tyria, and 1 for Maguuma, soo not the biggest fan.

Edited by ArchonWing.9480
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2 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Hearts were fine. Repeatable hearts that lock a vendor are not.

I liked HoT for not having any. When they came back in LS3 and locked vendors I immediately lost interest and have basically played 0 living story since except to open a reward track. I also have not even finished PoF either.

Incidentially I liked the hearts in Queensdale, and kinda disliked them being simplified via NPE.

I have a grand total of 1 map completion for Core Tyria, and 1 for Maguuma, soo not the biggest fan.

I'm one of the people who asked for repeatable hearts and I agree with this.  In my mind hearts would reset after a few weeks not daily and the idea that they would lock the vendor never occurred to me at all.

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12 hours ago, Jilora.9524 said:

That says dynamic events replace quests not that they are quests. It's was a way to make the world more alive while still having hearts which have the same requirements as every quest I have ever done so yeah hearts are closer to quests then dynamic events. And pretty sure you still have to do at least some strike achieves to complete Bjora meta so they didn't take it out they just didn't keep making 3 strikes per map so never had that overlap. You going to try and win an argument I wasn't having any way you can so I'm good. Like you even took my exaggeration of yall all act like you won't do quests in an mmo when if hearts are there you will do them at least once whether you like them or not was all I meant.

Hearts are called tasks.


In every single other game, quests are the things that chain. That propel the story and leveling. The fact that hearts didn't even exist until the third beta should clue you in. For a year before that Anet was saying dynamic events were the quests in this game. That was the very first site I came too.  Seriously. If you can't do a bit of research I'm not going to do it for you. Everyone who played 9 years ago and remembers what Anet talks about at conventions were that DEs were the quests in the game. They were always meant to be. In WoW didn't you have escort quests and defense quests? Collection quests?

Then in what world are dynamic events not quests.  The reason hearts are tasks and not quests, is because the very definition of quest assumes you have a single goal. The quest for the holy grail. The quest for a new apartment. This is what a quest is by default. Not only do the vast majority of hearts have multiple ways to finish them (thus not quests), but also the vast majority of hearts can be finished incidentally by doing dynamic events in the area.


Add to this the idea that they didn't exist. Anet always meant to have quests in the game just not traditional quest. Ever hear of a quest chain from another game? Telll me, where are your heart chains?  Seriously just do a bit of research.

 

Edit : Typo

 

Edited by Vayne.8563
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13 minutes ago, nopoet.2960 said:

I'm one of the people who asked for repeatable hearts and I agree with this.  In my mind hearts would reset after a few weeks not daily and the idea that they would lock the vendor never occurred to me at all.

Great, thanks a lot "buddy"

and I hope you can read into those air quotes for what I'm really saying.

 

and let's be clear "people" like you wanted this feature specifically to COERCE other players to come back to zones to do something they didn't want to do.

Your motivation was awful to begin with.

Edited by Devildoc.6721
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1 hour ago, Devildoc.6721 said:

Great, thanks a lot "buddy"

and I hope you can read into those air quotes for what I'm really saying.

 

and let's be clear "people" like you wanted this feature specifically to COERCE other players to come back to zones to do something they didn't want to do.

Your motivation was awful to begin with.

 

Well,. let's not be that salty. It's not their fault that it was implemented in one of the worst ways possible.

Repeatable hearts would have been fine if the vendors didn't become useless every day and made you feel like you lost progress.

Edited by ArchonWing.9480
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Hearts a boring mindless task to tick off a box. EoD needs to step things up and give us actual meaningful world map events with payoffs for participation and consequences for failing, like we had in HoT. Hearts are tutorial level design.. not suitable for advanced players who want end-game PvE.

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30 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Well please tell me how to get map completion without doing them and I will gladly stop.

Well, if map completion is important to you then do them.

Most achievements in every game I have ever played require a certain level of grinding, including map completion rewards/ achievements.

But if you really hate them then dont do them

I might add if you hate repetitive things in gaming; achievements may not be something that you prioritize.

Some things in life just aren't complicated.

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You know what's really tedious? Threads like this one which, like so many others, has reached an impasse, with two thoroughly entrenched positions, and neither side willing to give an inch. Fortunately, given that unlike hearts there's no reward for "forum completion", it's unnecessary to do more than skim over such tiresome arguments once it becomes evident that no one actually has anything more to say. 

Edited by Beleron.9347
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2 hours ago, Beleron.9347 said:

You know what's really tedious? Threads like this one which, like so many others, has reached an impasse, with two thoroughly entrenched positions, and neither side willing to give an inch. Fortunately, given that unlike hearts there's no reward for "forum completion", it's unnecessary to do more than skim over such tiresome arguments once it becomes evident that no one actually has anything more to say. 

really, middle ground is "just don't play the game, we got our way, deal with it?"

that's not middle ground at all.

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3 hours ago, Beleron.9347 said:

You know what's really tedious? Threads like this one which, like so many others, has reached an impasse, with two thoroughly entrenched positions, and neither side willing to give an inch. Fortunately, given that unlike hearts there's no reward for "forum completion", it's unnecessary to do more than skim over such tiresome arguments once it becomes evident that no one actually has anything more to say. 

A middle ground would be core tyria with less hearts per map, non repeating hearts, and no vendor locked merchants.

Hearts are kept in game, but reduced and returned to being less annoying xD

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13 hours ago, Devildoc.6721 said:

people never go to maps just to do hearts.

 This argument is false and would equate to "you never see people come to a map to just do the first part of a meta either". The hearts are part of map completion and people do go Snowden Drifts to do map completion.

13 hours ago, Devildoc.6721 said:

Hearts are completely solo content, so it doesn't even matter if other people are on the map and in fact, the less people that are in the area, the easier time you'll have completing your chores

Not entirely true. Most hearts include things like killing mobs and that does go faster with others around you.

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13 hours ago, Devildoc.6721 said:

Hearts don't keep players in maps, meta events and world bosses do.

 

people never go to maps just to do hearts.

you don't see tons of people flocking to snowden drifts, snowden drifts does have hearts, but it has no meta events or bosses, so it's dead.  Hearts are completely solo content, so it doesn't even matter if other people are on the map and in fact, the less people that are in the area, the easier time you'll have completing your chores since unlike the entire rest of the game, heart objectives are not shared between players.

 

This is a dumb myth that hearts somehow get people flocking to maps.

the most constantly high population maps are ones that have no hearts but have metas and world bosses that people like to run.

Dragon's Stand, provided you pop in the right map where everyone is, that one's constantly being run

Dragonfall, when I make new characters and instant boost them to 80 to farm some keys, I do this map for map completion trying to get a key out of it (precisely because it has no hearts, I don't bother with any of the maps that require hearts), I always see a good amount of people making progress on the meta.

Silverwastes, there are constantly RIBA maps going on in LFG  

I always find good populations in Bloodstone Fen and Grothmar Valley too.  I was on break when the return events for Bloodstone Fen and Ember Bay.  Guess which one I had trouble finding people for doing the boss events I couldn't solo when I came back and people were no longer doing the return to event for them?

Yup, the one that has repeatable hearts.

If your theory was correct that repeatable hearts keep people coming back to a zone, then why on earth were there dozens of people doing the Anomaly at the bottom of Bloodstone Fen but like, only 3-4 people on Ember Bay?

Ember Bay is the one with the precious population retaining hearts afterall.

People should be coming back and doing those hearts every day, because they're repeatable

and they're "content" right?

No, I probably phrased it wrong.   

I meant that (new) Collections often send people back to old zones where they sometimes have to do a Heart again to buy something from that vendor.  Anet adds new collections constantly and they often involve going back to old zones where they put collectibles on vendors or behind DE's.  I certainly agree that nobody will go back to  a zone just for Hearts, I never meant to say this and I do not think this was a Myth with players tbh. 

 

I also agree that a good meta with a reward  that is worth it is the number one reason why zones keep populated. 

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7 minutes ago, Tyncale.1629 said:

No, I probably phrased it wrong.   

I meant that (new) Collections often send people back to old zones where they sometimes have to do a Heart again to buy something from that vendor.  Anet adds new collections constantly and they often involve going back to old zones where they put collectibles on vendors or behind DE's.  I certainly agree that nobody will go back to  a zone just for Hearts, I never meant to say this and I do not think this was a Myth with players tbh. 

 

I also agree that a good meta with a reward  that is worth it is the number one reason why zones keep populated. 

Seen people saying how much they actually missed doing Istan meta last night, a few complaints about the race being buggy (the gates weren't working sometimes so you'd have to go back and forth through them) and bounty callouts that was the basic sentiment in chat.

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On 8/25/2021 at 3:03 AM, Devildoc.6721 said:

or worse.. the stealth one in blazeridge.  that one is always awful

I've seen a number of replies on this saying it's cheeseable without telling you how to cheese it.  Which I don't actually think of as cheesing, I think of it as my character thinking brilliantly and literally outside the box in a way Ash Legion prefers.  Every time I do it now, it's like my character is Steve Rogers pulling out the flagpole pin.

 

What you do is

Spoiler

accept the stealth transformation, then as you face into the gauntlet do an about face to your left and go along the outside of the wall, keeping the wall on your right.  There might be a minor mob or two to avoid, but it's pretty much clear (and slow thanks to the stealth mode slowdown) sailing until you see an opening back inside.  Step inside and boom, you've got a big hunk of the heart.  Repeat two more times to complete.  Slightly tedious but not at all difficult and overall one of the quicker and simpler hearts to complete.

Overall I find hearts not too bad to deal with.  But I'm very on board with not wanting the vendor's unique items locked behind doing them.

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I don't mind doing Hearts personally though I will admit it's annoying as hell to have to do them on a daily basis in the PoF maps when the vendors don't even offer anything substantial to warrant locking them out on a daily basis. 

If they do return in EoD, I'd rather they give us reason for doing them and keep it a balanced experience by not flooding the entire region with them like what they did with Core Tyria. And dear gods don't put the vendors on a daily reset...

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4 minutes ago, LSD.4673 said:

GW2's quest system sucks...but what the hell would you do without hearts? 

Most of the repeatable ones are purposely boring because they have gated rewards behind the heart vendors. 

Events and Exploration like was the dev's original intent.

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Just now, Devildoc.6721 said:

Events and Exploration like was the dev's original intent.

All games have exploration which rewards xp. It's just there like a garnish on your soup.

Events, meanwhile, are a clusterflupp. The Core events are rubbish, with lots of escorts (caravans and dumb NPCs, especially) or "stand on the point and kill the mobs when their invuln runs out" events that all scale terribly. Mix in the difficulty in determining where they even take place, and you have a recipe for a game no one wants to play.

 

The expansion events do a much better job of being fun, but they're too formulaic: at xx:30 this event begins, at xx:40 this event takes place, etc. 

 

It'd take much better planning and implementation than what the devs have so far demonstrated. Maybe they could just rip off the bounty board thing for it...

Either way, the dev team does a terrible job of working on multiple projects, so the possibility of something like this entering the mix is up there with the chance of you getting yourself a Chak Infusion drop.

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