Vindicator Feedback Thread

[Therys.4368]

I would like the Vindicator dodge to have the Invulnerable effect (like guardian's Renewed Focus skill) and possibly ignore cripple/frozen/immobilize because all kinds of things that have an Un-evadable property now and still just hits us mid-dodge and making it behave unexpectedly. I've been knocked back, crippled, or immobiliized mid-evade. In its current state, it just doesn't feel right that such attacks can still affect us when we're up in the sky or phased out of time and space. If the dodge is going to cost our entire 100 endurance it'd be nice for it to at least be reliably effective.

Its especially buggy when playing with lag because then it both activates and I'm popped back onto earth again simultaneously somehow. Also, using yellow for the landing area marker is quite confusing amid the mass of enemy AoE attacking red and yellow circles.

I also wish there's a way for the game to at least remember the one it was last on. (EDIT: As of current build March 15 it seems to remember who it was last on, so thank you 😄) This is an issue affecting whomever is the third legend (ventari/jalis/shiro/mallyx) and not just any kind of dismount/transform. I can't switch from Archemorus to Jalis to put down a Stability road and then switch back to Archemorus because it just drops me onto St Viktor so I have to switch to Archemorus and trigger the cooldown. This doesn't feel like gameplay design it feels like I'm fighting the user interface.

While I'm making wishes, I'd also want Energy Meld to be a toggle that continuously converts energy into endurance instead of what it is right now. As it is, either I spam it all the time right after every dodge (which means no decision-making) or I wait for the specific situation where I am 50 or less endurance away from a dodge I need right now, and need to do two button presses instead of one to do a very urgent action on my already-delayed 300 ping latency.

Overall, it feels a little clunky and stiff. Abilities are difficult to flow from one to another because of the tactics swap cooldown. And then the third legend also has a cooldown to consider. It just feels like three different legends in total rather than two where one of them is two people fighting as one.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Therys.4368
Updated info from Mar15 build

[Thon.3780]

Just my opinion, 

I think instead of Ally group buff, I feel vindicator is design for debuff mobs (area) instead

From its character is fast cd skill

we have 

From chill in sw1 sw 3. Fast cd or jump

invul from sw 1 sw 2 fast cd

almost  perma weakness from retribution trait  combo with heal and daze 

and we now have vindicator back line to replace herald back line. 
long range attak

burst range 900

spear 2000

GW 900 

Regen range 900 + condi clear

 

not include sigil torment and heal if someone put in hammer for critical trigger 

that is crazy

 

[FirebrandFrog.7603]

I want to like Vindicator so, so much.

I *want* to like the fantasy of a united Archemorus and St. Viktor palling around with the Revenant and helping them out with their own unique skills.

But the class is just so janky...

Two things I think could really help out Vindicator that would also be relatively simple to do:

1. Cut the conditions out of the class. Period. Lean into Vindicator being a hard Power spec, we already have a really good condi spec in Renegade and a...whatever-the-heck is going on with Herald. (You could honestly say the same with a lot of EoD specs, cut the dumb half-and-half trait tree designs and pick a side for one of them!!)

2. Make their damage numbers bigger. That's it. 2022 Guild Wars 2 has such a heavy, obvious Power/Conditions imbalance that is right now 99.99% in Conditions's favor (and no, simply nerfing condi numbers won't be enough, the problems run deep in the roots of GW2 itself...but that's for another thread!). Revenant has some things in their kit that sort of make up for this (like Shiro's stupidly overpriced gap-closer), but it won't mean much if successfully sticking to a target, anticipating their attacks with times dodges, and so on result in less damage than a Harbinger or a Willbender doing their typical rotations.

...Honestly, I think Vindicator needs to go back to the drawing board period, but just those two changes could put some elbow grease on a class that sorely needs it.

[Telgum.6071]

The dodge: while I really dislike these kind of changes, such having only one dodge, I'm really trying to get into it. Problem is not only having one, it is also the skill being extremely easy to follow. When I see a Vindicator dodging, I know exactly when and where it's going to land, and considering how slow the animation is, I have enough time to prepare and even channel skills to catch the enemy as soon as it lands, or worse, place terrain skills that interrupt dodges, like Line of Warding. Having just one dodge doesn't help either, is not suitable to being able to dodge just once on PvP/WvW, simply as that.

My proposition: reduce the dodge duration so it's way faster, so you stay less time on the 'air', makes the combat flow faster and also reduces the time that enemy players have to react. Reduce the endurance cost of dodging in half, therefore having two dodges. This change makes even more sense now that Saint's Shield has been nerfed.
 

The legends: the dual legend concept is original but that's it. Seems like you had this idea of "Hey let's make a dual legend!" and that's as far as you went. The only skill I like is Spear of Archemorus, which doesn't hit the targets sooo... simply put, the Alliance is less interesting to play than Kalla, which already had a very simple design.

My proposition: change Scavenger's Burst for some form of heavy CC, like levitation or knockdown. Remove torment's charges from Spear of Archemorus and add a heavy cripple duration instead, and make the skill unblockable. Increase Selfish Spirit healing per hit and reduce the maximum number of objetives to 3, also make the cast quicker. If you won't reduce the endurance cost of the dodges, then rework all or at least some Viktor and Archemorus skills to make them work better with dodges, like having extra effects while your endurance is not full OR under a certain threshold (effects like adding boons OR reset Forerunner of Death duration and their equivalents OR recharge the used skills faster OR reduce energy cost of skills OR... sky is the limit).

The Greatsword: Mist Unleashed is very slow. Phantom's Onslaught description says it has 900 range but the skill is far from having that range. See the distance compared to Temporal Rift, an actual 900 range skill. Here and here. I really don't understand the Eternity's Requiem nerf, I don't get why Vindicator isn't allowed to have an AoE high burst skill while there are so many builds out there with more burst and survivability while also being way harder to notice and dodge.

My proposition: slighty reduce the cast duration of Mist Unleashed. Fix Phantom's Onslaught, by either making the skill have 900 range or by correcting the skill description. I would also recommend to undo Requiem's nerf but I know you won't do it, so I'll throw another proposition: since Vindicator lacks CC, add some form of CC to Eternity's Requiem, be cripple or chill to the current skill and let the numbers are they are now.

Others: Energy Meld is dissapointing. So is Alliance Tactics. The first one has an energy cost too huge for just 50 endurance and the second one simply dissapears when you are not using Alliance. I don't really know what to say here, you nailed this part of Revenant with both Herald (Facet with different effects based on the current legend) and Renegade (three skills regardless of the legend). Even core Revenant has a better skill than Energy Meld and Alliance Tactics called Ancient Echo.

EM and AT are many steps back from the past two specializations, can't give a proper feedback because I simply can't process why did you make those two skills to work like that. If you are going for the easy way, then just do what you did with Renegade and add three independent skills that will work regardless of the current legend, or better, based on the current legend.

And fix the skill position swap when switching builds and legends.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Telgum.6071
Typo

[Michel.3986]

Greatsword:

Phantom's Onslaught do not have actual 900 range. Actually Nomad's Advance the jumping utility skill has more range (600) than Phantom's Onslaught's 900 range.

 

 

True Strike, the skill that is followed by Imperial Guard (the blocking skill) should be more like Samurai style. Too slow. Make it a fast long slash cut from upside down with cool animation, with 5 vulnerability stacks and weakness since its dmg is bad.

 

Tenacious Ruin, the Dodge is really really bad underwater, very punishing to use it underwater since the actual effect is taking doble of the evading effect.

[medivh.4725]

Urn of Saint Viktor is blocking combat view. Design is ugly like a in your face kidda spinning toliet bowl. Could you make a mini Urn? That way is less in your face? Like scale it down to 70%? Who needs to carry urn around it is a hinderance. That said I won't mind a backpack with a closed urn at my back. Just not at my face where I am facing the enemy 

Edited March 18, 2022 by medivh.4725

[Trap.4965]

On 3/11/2022 at 10:40 PM, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

This is my biggest complaint with Vindicator after doing raids and strikes with it this week.  Personally I would be fine with this level of difficulty if it had the damage to back it up, but with only decent/good levels of damage it doesn't feel rewarding to me to run Vindicator for many of the instanced content bosses for how insanely glassy it is.  This is the Elementalist of Revenant builds for sure, and just like Elementalist it suffers from "Huge Hitbox" damage inflation issues and high difficulty with lesser reward

 

I mean.... GS4 literally blocks anything including Deimos pizza, you just have to practice the mechanics of the class. use GS or Archie/Vicky movement skills to evade stuff... you have loads of mobility

 

On 3/13/2022 at 2:41 PM, Buran.3796 said:

   Some inputs after testing more the spec:

* The difference in damage from a build designed to fight in WvW/roaming (usually with Devastation + Retribution) and one designed to PvE (usually with Devastation + Invocation) is HUGE, even going full berserker in both. The gap can be even larger running Scholar runes (currently I'm using Fireworks due I don't wan't to resign to the 25% increase in movement in OW)

* The gameplay mechanics of both builds are also vastly different. Just swapping from using your evade to avoid damage and gain health + barrier to use it to hit hard and gain an extra 15% damage requires to re-wire how you approch fights. Also, I'm not sure about using Brutality, Swift Termination or Dance of Death: all of them seem to be so situational (even in PvE).

* So far not fan of running WvW/PvP builds in PvE with the Vindicator as I oftenly do with Herald and Renegade. Even with Jalis, Retribution and the third dodge trait I found that build frail in PvE and severely lacking in dps compared to the condi Renegade PvP build. Yes, power PvP vindicator does ~20%-25% more damage than power PvP herald when translated to PvE stats, but at the cost of being way more squishy and having worse cc. I did extremely poorly at HoT HPs using that build, whereas I like how I can run PvP's power Herald and condi Renegade in PvE and getting the job done with less risk.

* As general rule you'll lose in WvW vs ranged foes. Necros in particular will eat you alive. Fights vs Bladesworns and Untamed are usually very long; fights vs Willbenders, Virtuosos and Mechanits very fast and very one sided (you win or lost very fast if any of the duelers make a mistake.

* In the PvE build I would prefer Scavenger Burst to be centered on you; I find the douple tap to cast on terrain annoying and the 900 range is useless, since you don't share the boons with other people and you are a pure mele fighter with no other ranged attacks, and talking about that...

* ...Spear of Archemorus is a garbage tier elite, worth to be in the "300 seconds cooldown" list. A slow casted highly telegraphed skill which deals lower damage than a couple of autos and deals 5 stacks of torment instead of something useful as vulnerability or might or cc. I don't get why this elite exits: utterly useless for a mele build tio have a super long ranged (2000) attack which is a net loss in damage and bufs a type of damage (condition) which doesn't works with the spec. Also: the burns from Scavenger Burst do ~1/6 of the damage from Guardian's Purging flames (5700 vs 34100) with condi stats. I known that has low cooldown but the energy cost will exhaust us before getting a fraction of that damage. I prefer to have more expensive/longer cooldown skills with more impactful effects than shorter ones to (not being able) to spam.

* The Alliance helas are also ultrabad. Yes, Tree Song is very powerful, but even if I run Alliance I won't swap to Kurzik in a fight due my damage boosters are in Archemorus or the other legend; I would only run Kurzik in a support build (probably with Ventari) which means never.

    So far; I'll keep with the PvE and condi build test now. In PvP I'll finish my test in the next 15-20 ranked matches.

 

regarding Scav Burst... you're supposed to build your gear to crit cap with fury, then use Scav to apply fury to yourself while running to mobs -> dodge slam them for 45% of dmg increase from traits -> GS5... with stamina sigil it's rinse and repeat for massive dps 

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

5 hours ago, sgs.4523 said:

 

I mean.... GS4 literally blocks anything including Deimos pizza, you just have to practice the mechanics of the class. use GS or Archie/Vicky movement skills to evade stuff... you have loads of mobility

Yes I’m fully aware, however all of these options require energy and/or being in the right legend to utilize and they all cost more in DPS than a regular dodge on a regular class does.  Also there are bugs at the moment with Vindi’s dodge where some ground targeted CC effects (I.e Soo-Won’s Shockwave) will prevent the dodge from completing and still CC the vindi.  The other effects you’re talking about besides GS4 block also have more micro to use them properly without kittening yourself; they default to a backwards roll so you have to position yourself appropriately before using them. In the case of Battle Dance you have to swap to Viktor, turn your character or about-face to where you want it to roll to, and then roll. These are more keypresses and less flexible than regular dodge classes. 
 

moreover, the glassy-ness isn’t just from the “one dodge.”  It’s probably even more related to the fact the class has no real reliable way to heal itself quickly.  Yes, the combined healing between Shiro/Archemorus/Viktor has a decent amount of healing, however, Shiro’s takes a few seconds to fully heal and Archemorus/Viktor require you to fully stop dpsing (Archemorus’s heal barely does any damage) to get the benefit of them.  The vast majority of other DPS classes don’t have these issues or if they do are able to slot in a “fast big heal” if they feel they need to, which is something revenant can’t do without swapping out an entire legend.  Yes, healers exist, but this class is even more reliant on healers and mitigation than most (which are not always reliable, especially after recent nerfs), which is why I liken it to Ele in terms of its glass. 

couple all of this with the fact it’s a “big hitbox” reliant class with only average/good dps AND it’s about to eat huge nerfs alongside every other power class (much moreso than Condi) with the upcoming removal of banners/spirits and yes, it really should have 1-2k more DPS added to its small hitbox numbers. 

Edited March 19, 2022 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[Kulvar.1239]

"Spear of Archemorus" is a waste of energy.
"Redemptor's Sermon" is a waste of a trait choice.
"Vassals of the Empire" and "Saint of zu Heltzer" are fine, but a bit redundant.
"Legendary Alliance" is the only legend without an upkeep skill. Which means it cannot work with "Replenishing Despair".

Why not rework things so Vindicator can have a viable condition damage build ?

"Spear of Archemorus" could be reworked into being the upkeep skill of "Legendary Alliance" (cost 5, upkeep cost 6) and, every 2s or 3s, get an effect that make your next attack apply some Burning and/or Torment.

The trait replacing "Redemptor's Sermon" could add conditions to some Greatsword skills (bleeding on auto, Torment on "Eternity's Requiem").

Removing "Vassals of the Empire" (and giving the boon extending effect to "Saint of zu Heltzer" maybe) would make room for a dodge attack that apply Torment and/or Burning.

Edited March 19, 2022 by Kulvar.1239

[Buran.3796]

  Aside from farming, spent part of the day playing the power PvE Vindicator in the HoT maps, and starting the story mode so I moved my main to the first map of the expansion, which cleaned using a condi Renebow PvP build.

   In HoT and Dragonfall maps, power Vindi did decent vs most of crowds and regular foes. But facing alone the Hero Points I was crushed in most of them, and sometimes even fighting against some regular veterans, wereas playing condi Renegade, condi Herald or even power Herald I was able to solo every HP aside from Balthazar's Herald and the Mushroom Queen (and those came close to be defeated, specially with Renegade builds).  On the other hand, Vindicator felt frail as f***. A pure glass canon. You need pure zerk stats, offensive runes and sigils and an aggressive gameplay to deliver damage (a must vs those heavy armored foes), and a little mistake in the execution puts you in downed state. Your sustain and recovery from damage leaves a lot to be desired...

   Yes, busting your fury, migth and quicknes with Archemorus, landing Forerunner of Death + Requiem and using the stamina sigil is nice vs weaker goons, but you stay in melee most of the time and you get hit a lot, and when you block or evade you're dealing 0 damage. Your sources of bar breaking are also either the staff (which reduces your dps) or the core legends. I don't think this spec will be popular in PvE for newcomers: is very hard to play, very glassy and leaves no room for errors.

   This afternoon also saw the Migthy Teapot tournament; the only EoD specs which had success and were "worthy" to become meta were Specter and Machinist. Vindicator were used in two matches from teams which lost the first round, in a sort of "yolo, let's try if can work". As expected, it didn't. Vindi is just a worse Herald which had toold from better teamfights (AoE burst and team heal + barrier) and once you deprive them from damage and team sustain becames irrelevant. On the other side, power Herald was present in every team. Nothing surprising here.

   Yesterday I also saw Vallun running a celestial Vindicator build in WvW roaming and duelling. Worked fine vs average players due He's extremely good, but once started a duel vs a celestial Virtuoso was unable to drop his HP below 50 a single time, whereas the Virsusoso's aegis blocked most of the damage without much effort, cleansed himself easily and forced Vallun to retreat and cut his HP below 15% a lot of times (killing him a couple of them). This is also what I expected: since the greatsword and the Alliance are very lacky in terms of conditions, the only way to work in a hybrid build is using celestial; but since you're mostly a melee fighter, is not easy to pressure other celestial/trailbrazer WvW builds handled by good players. Other problems are that staff does 0 condi damage and mace has 0 defenses, so if you chose to run staff when you swap your damage plummets, and if you run mace you become very vulnerable. The only positive thing is that Kurzik's Tree Song is very powerful vs condi builds, which still, wasn't enough vs that Mesmer...

   So, as I said: I'll keep running power Herald and power Renegade in PvP, and using power Herald, condi Rene¡gade and celestial Herald in WvW. For PvE I'll keep using mostly condi Renegade and power Herald (which is a bit lackluster, but has way better sustain than Vindicator). So far I won't use Vindi at any game mode any longer.

   I don't have much advice to ANet about changes in the Vindicator: when they announced that would be limited to a single dodge I hated it and was thinking about how it deleted the Mesmer from MATs; when  the second beta arrived I was greatly surprised due one of the traits keept the endurance cost in 50 and made it viable in PvP. I enjoyed that part. Then they normalized the evedes to 100 units and rised the healing and barrier to compensate. Then EoD was released and people compleined about the damage and the support: they nerfed Eternity's Requiem halving the damage AND making that no longer tracked stealth enemies (because, you known, AoE damage doesn't hit you if you're hidden) and they nerfed the support (without restoring the energy cost to the initial value).

   I think that even restoring the energy cost won't make Vindicator more fun to play: IMO the jump duration is too long and doesn't make sense to be so long but not being entirely on i-frames for the duration. I also agree with others here: balancing a spec with a single dodge in a game designed to to have 2 as a default is a nightmare. As happens with Mechanit's golem, the golem will be always either op or useless in PvP. I won't rely in a spec which don't enjoy as much as the previous ones (or even core) and which usuability will always pend so much on balance changes. Hammer is garbage, as is Ventari, Kalla, Mallyx, now the Vindicator as a whole (and Jalis is on the road to get the same fate). So I'll stick to Herald and Renegade. Enjoy your useless spec, ANet. 

[FirebrandFrog.7603]

10 hours ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

Why not rework things so Vindicator can have a viable condition damage build ?

 

That's just Renegade. 😒

I'd rather Vindicator actually be a good Power spec that either brings something unique for the party to the table or otherwise has the Big E-Peen Numbers to back up its selfishness. As it is now, it has neither.

[Kulvar.1239]

56 minutes ago, FirebrandFrog.7603 said:

That's just Renegade. 😒

I'd rather Vindicator actually be a good Power spec that either brings something unique for the party to the table or otherwise has the Big E-Peen Numbers to back up its selfishness. As it is now, it has neither.

 

It already has the trait base to be a good power spec.with "Leviathan Strength" and "Forerunner of Death". Tunning the GS & Archemorus skills and those 2 traits to make it good is on the table. My suggestion do not in any way infringe on that.

[FirebrandFrog.7603]

31 minutes ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

It already has the trait base to be a good power spec.with "Leviathan Strength" and "Forerunner of Death". Tunning the GS & Archemorus skills and those 2 traits to make it good is on the table. My suggestion do not in any way infringe on that.

I agree that Archie's skills and the GS skills need tuning (in particular the autoattack chain could stand to be...crunchier? not sure how to make this make sense), but the issue with Legendary Alliance is that it's already doing so little for how much kit there is. It'd be better for Vind and really for most eSpecs to just take what it already wants to do—strike damage on Archie's side, healing/defense on Vikky's side—and make those numbers better.

Besides, nothing you can give Alliance will really top what Renegade puts out with Blood Fury/Heartpiercer/Vindication (irony!).

[Zaret.1450]

14 hours ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

"Spear of Archemorus" is a waste of energy.
"Redemptor's Sermon" is a waste of a trait choice.
"Vassals of the Empire" and "Saint of zu Heltzer" are fine, but a bit redundant.
"Legendary Alliance" is the only legend without an upkeep skill. Which means it cannot work with "Replenishing Despair".

Why not rework things so Vindicator can have a viable condition damage build ?

"Spear of Archemorus" could be reworked into being the upkeep skill of "Legendary Alliance" (cost 5, upkeep cost 6) and, every 2s or 3s, get an effect that make your next attack apply some Burning and/or Torment.

The trait replacing "Redemptor's Sermon" could add conditions to some Greatsword skills (bleeding on auto, Torment on "Eternity's Requiem").

Removing "Vassals of the Empire" (and giving the boon extending effect to "Saint of zu Heltzer" maybe) would make room for a dodge attack that apply Torment and/or Burning.

you know you have renegade for a full out condi build or a hibrid build even right? like please let vindi become a full fledged power elite so it can be even a bit decent, just please ok?, some people want a power revenant and we dont have it while all you condi/hibrid rev fans alrwady have renegade wich is great at it.

let us enjoy a bit too ok?

[Zaret.1450]

My opinion only.

make scavenger burst create a fire field and get rid of its default burn, a fire field can either burn give power or just incrrase dmg wich woukd help not just power but even heal vindi.

spear needs to take out torment and either hit harder by default or become a carged skill, like an upkeep but a bit diferent, dmg based on energy used for the skill, like first use activate upkeep and carge, second use launches the spear and deals dmg based on energy used, much more rewarding if used well and punishing if used wrongly.

gs3, ok its not 900, no mater jow you see it, also making it hit less and pull enemyes would be a thousand times better and would sinc much more with the other vindi skills.

evade, its good, but making it 75 or making it so you can choose when to land instead of just waiting would be mich better, cleaner playstile and again more rewarding well used and taxing if wrongly used.

Actualy it has around 37k dmg on pve benchmarks with no cc and little survival, then you have virtuoso with around 39k much more cc and mich better survival, also virtuoso dont need to care about energy or the evade, soooo please if rev has to micro manage a lot of things make it rewarding and also more usefull.

[Kulvar.1239]

1 hour ago, zaswer.5246 said:

you know you have renegade for a full out condi build or a hibrid build even right? like please let vindi become a full fledged power elite so it can be even a bit decent, just please ok?, some people want a power revenant and we dont have it while all you condi/hibrid rev fans alrwady have renegade wich is great at it.

let us enjoy a bit too ok?

I enjoy power builds too. I did not asked to change any greatsword skill, I did not asked to change the new legend but for the useless archemorus elite skill, I did not asked to change traits for power builds. Why are you implying that I want to kill power vindicator ?

Also, power renegade is a thing too. Renegade is not forced to play condi.

We can both have our wish granted. I wish for both myself.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Kulvar.1239

[Bish.8627]

So I love Vindicator in PvE, for fun at least. Been thinking about the skill flipping and I think they were partially right with it, but I also think it was right to turn it off and replace it. In my general use, I would only want the heal and stun breaks to flip, maybe movement too as an escape after engaging maybe. So how about, where every other class can drop and switch skills on the bar, Vind can swap and changes the abilities that can flip?

Meaning, scavanger stays, the heal flips when used for example.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

On 3/19/2022 at 4:31 PM, Kulvar.1239 said:

Removing "Vassals of the Empire" (and giving the boon extending effect to "Saint of zu Heltzer" maybe) would make room for a dodge attack that apply Torment and/or Burning.

This would be a bad change.  Vassals allows support vindicator to do permanent protection/25 might/vigor and actually enables perma alacrity with Salvation/Ventari if desired.   While the barrier trait does feel nicer for the raw heals, Vassals is actually the better support trait, at least in PvE.   I Would hate to see that changed in favor of a condi trait.  If condi is desired for this trait they could simply remove or minimize the power damage from it and add some condi damage instead 

[Set.7461]

On 3/18/2022 at 3:50 AM, medivh.4725 said:

Design is ugly like a in your face kidda spinning toliet bowl

It's so silly. You're literally sniffing this dead guy's ashes like wtf is up with that. All while he does damage to you and you're just taking it. Terrible design.

 

To those who may not know, an "Urn" is a container used to store the cremated ashes of a person. The Urn of Saint Viktor is what you're holding when you used the skill.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Set.7461
clarification

[ProtoGunner.4953]

On 3/17/2022 at 10:57 AM, FirebrandFrog.7603 said:

I want to like Vindicator so, so much.

I *want* to like the fantasy of a united Archemorus and St. Viktor palling around with the Revenant and helping them out with their own unique skills.

But the class is just so janky...

Two things I think could really help out Vindicator that would also be relatively simple to do:

1. Cut the conditions out of the class. Period. Lean into Vindicator being a hard Power spec, we already have a really good condi spec in Renegade and a...whatever-the-heck is going on with Herald. (You could honestly say the same with a lot of EoD specs, cut the dumb half-and-half trait tree designs and pick a side for one of them!!)

2. Make their damage numbers bigger. That's it. 2022 Guild Wars 2 has such a heavy, obvious Power/Conditions imbalance that is right now 99.99% in Conditions's favor (and no, simply nerfing condi numbers won't be enough, the problems run deep in the roots of GW2 itself...but that's for another thread!). Revenant has some things in their kit that sort of make up for this (like Shiro's stupidly overpriced gap-closer), but it won't mean much if successfully sticking to a target, anticipating their attacks with times dodges, and so on result in less damage than a Harbinger or a Willbender doing their typical rotations.

...Honestly, I think Vindicator needs to go back to the drawing board period, but just those two changes could put some elbow grease on a class that sorely needs it.

I played now for about 50h the Vindicator and I have a blast. I think for most people this is the most important thing. That said yes fine tune it but going back to the drawing board is hyperbole.

Edited March 21, 2022 by ProtoGunner.4953

[ProtoGunner.4953]

On 3/18/2022 at 8:50 AM, medivh.4725 said:

Urn of Saint Viktor is blocking combat view. Design is ugly like a in your face kidda spinning toliet bowl. Could you make a mini Urn? That way is less in your face? Like scale it down to 70%? Who needs to carry urn around it is a hinderance. That said I won't mind a backpack with a closed urn at my back. Just not at my face where I am facing the enemy 

I like it. Blocking view? How do you play? First person?

[Niteraven.1372]

I really wanted to like it.  I can't.  It's kitten.  I left it dead on a beach somewhere.  Eventually I'll bring it back as my new banker because every other toon I have is better in every way.

[Esufer.8762]

I'm enjoying vindicator, I'm primarily a WvW roamer.

Main points of feedback for me is on Power Vindicator the fights vs Condi heavy classes feel really uphill after the nerf to the heal dodge. Totally agree that a nerf needed to happen, but maybe removing 1 condi on dodge in the affected area would help to offset this a bit?

GS5 nerf also comes across a bit heavy-handed considering other abilities/combos that can 100-0 people in the game with less of a visual tell. Would like to see some of the damage (not all) return to GS5 compared to what it is now (basically 2 auto attack crits).

[Fan Didly Tastic.7169]

The best feedback I can give is make this class what it is, a double legend synergy.

1. Merge the traits Death drop and Saint's Shield, and make their bonuses apply based on which of the alliance you are using, which was likely how this was in development, Saint's Shield for blue, Death Drop for red.
    
2. Merge Leviathan Strength with Redemptor's Sermon, and have them operate the same way. Leviathan Strength on red, Redemptor's Sermon on blue.

It's obvious the trait lines were either rushed or made without the dual tactics in mind, as such depending on your build, either Blue isn't worth really swapping to ever, or it is but you're just a weaker version of literally any other class that fills the same role as Viktor. I feel like this way it makes Blue worth having on damage builds, while keeping the damage traits from making the blue thing just a heal tank dps. Hell, make it so that when you swap it cancels the buffs given once you dodge again if you're in a different alliance. Sure you'll have to program the class to actually keep track of the color you are using when in a different legend, but this is a small price to pay for making the class actually feel like something other than an extra extremely basic DPS line. The lost traits from this can be replaced with whatever else you wanna cannibalize. It'd just rather have more viable class setups for this profession than being stuck to the same stuff because nearly every other trait setup is suboptimal.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Fan Didly Tastic.7169
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[Jace.8941]

Overall really liking the finished version of vindicator. It's been extremely stratifying in  both pvp and open world/meta events. I haven't tried it in WvW just yet but I will get there. At the moment, not much feedback on how the class plays honestly. Tree song is basically my favorite thing in PvP as a Rev now so thank you!

My feedback is more a quality of life comment? If it doesn't get changed, oh well.

 

Been using Exordium with my rev and that is a dream come true in itself! That is my favorite legendary. I love how it shifts and changes in battle. But with 2 of the skills, you can hardly see the sword morph, if it all. So here is my small feedback about something very niche. 

Mist unleashed it's hard to see the 'wings' at the base of the blade imo. The mist swirls around your character and sort of masks the wings. Maybe something at the tip of the blade. Like the animation used with Swoop and leap of faith. Especially with the sword turning into a "hammer" it would fit the end animation of the attack. 

Then Phantom's onslaught...This animation happens so fast, you may never see the sword change not matter what ha. I've caught a brief glimpse sometimes. Honestly I'd rather have the attack be quick, then be slow just so I can see an animation. That being said maybe the "axe" shape from whirling wrath may be more noticeable even with the speed. 

 

Thank you for your time if you read this and overall really loving EOD and can't wait to see what is to come!