EoD Siege Turtle Mount to WvW

[Xenesis.6389]

Ok Anet is doing their stream for the turtle mount today, it's got fancy jump jets and dual siege cannons.

In regards to WvW it will NOT be in at release, as they didn't want to overload wvw with new stuff with elite specs and alliances, but it may be considered in the future IF the community really wants it.

So let's see, does the small forum community want it? feel free to let your friends know to vote.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Xenesis.6389

[Lady Sapphirah.6234]

In gw1 they walked along and blew open gates.  It wasnt a mount it was a siege weapon.. They should be in wvw as siege not as a mount.  Would be fun to ride one and blow up stuff tho.

[Strider Pj.2193]

I guess my answer would be ‘it depends’.

 

If it’s more effective than golems for the same supply, then no.

 

If it’s as worthless as chain pull on a Warclaw, then no.

 

But if it takes a lot of supply, hits gates a little harder than golems, but is maybe very susceptible to Oil or Cannons, then maybe?   

[Telgum.6071]

That turtle feels bounded to be playable on WvW, just as soon as it doesn't cause a balance mess.

Considering that the WvW community sees the Warclaw as something bad for WvW, I feel strange that the poll is currently tied.

[kash.9213]

Can't vote, those options are too one way or the other.

I already don't use the chain pull on Warclaw because that's supply not going into rams or cats. If other people are there, my supply should go into their effort and I can put security on them while they break through. 

If it's just a big bouncy novelty then of course no.

I still would rather have an adjusted Roller Beetle or the Warclaw movement needs to be less sluggish or Griffon like. The Warclaw right now looks like the old demon dogs from Ghostbusters when they run or try to turn. Even though WvW isn't open world, the maps are still boring and lame to run across on a Warclaw.

[Littlekenny.4196]

I really hope they don't shove this in and make it so a person is at a severe disadvantage or can't run with a group of they don't buy it like they did with the glider and warclaw (warclaw ally speed boost is too inconsistent).

 

The specialisations don't look interesting to me and I don't play PvE.

[Xenesis.6389]

4 minutes ago, Littlekenny.4196 said:

I really hope they don't shove this in and make it so a person is at a severe disadvantage or can't run with a group of they don't buy it like they did with the glider and warclaw (warclaw ally speed boost is too inconsistent).

 

The specialisations don't look interesting to me and I don't play PvE.

 

I would imagine the speed of the warclaw would still be better overall for travel so you would still use that 99% of the time, you would basically only pop the turtle out for extra siege damage which would need supply limitations like the warclaw chain pull.

 

The only other worry would be the jump jets giving it too much vertical lift, we already had/have enough problems with the warclaw dismount jump which had to be nerfed, but still probably gives problems, (did they even fix the southeast tower jump over the gate exploit yet?). There's no reason for it to have jump jets in wvw (other than to survive long drops so you're not forced to switch glider instead), so maybe that will be disabled or changed to forward boost instead.

 

In the end it'll be another gimmick mount, which they will add to wvw eventually, to sell skins at the very least.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

I don't care if it actually sieges things, I just want a WvW mount that won't go poof when I go into water. Which is silly because all the Ranger cat pets are amphibious but the Warclaw for some reason isn't.

[Dawdler.8521]

Literally everything they talked about with how the turtle works is incompatible with WvW. 

So this is like saying should the griffon be in WvW? Yeah if you clip its wings and replace all the skills and also give it another name ending with claw to make it sound cool. Buts its not a griffon anymore, is it?

[Infusion.7149]

Depends on implementation. If it was a slow surface land/seafloor mount that had supply as ammo for mortar-like cannon-like attacks with minimum range it might be able to work. Remember we had the cannon trick/trap?

We have golems and charr car (dune roller) already , those don't use up siege to attack so whatever implementation is used it should use supply for attacks (maybe even movement). The PVE version has 40K health which is less than the 110K to 240K of golems or even the 150K of guild catapults.

What definitely would not make it to WVW is the jumping/leaping part (jump jets). Warclaw already breaks certain parts of the game.

P.S. it would be interesting if it interfaced with turtle banner in some way
 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[SweetPotato.7456]

I want siege turtle to be in WvW if it isn't,  I want Siege Turtle mount to be obtainable from WvW reward track. Regardless it being in or not in the game mode. 

I am already beginning to fear the time it need to grind for the mount, imagine trying to get an egg from the luxon Siege Turtle clan- go to the hatchery, do millions of achievements, go fishing until you are legendary to get the baby's favourite fish . .... and 3 million stacks of map currency ...... 

please, even if the siege turtle isn't in wvw, just let us get it from WvW.

[ascii.1369]

Not a big fan of the idea, warclaw already removed all interaction on the map. Before warclaw it was actually dangerouse to travle since you could be ganked. Now you ride comfortably across the map, having to dodge the one dismount skill and you're save.

 

If siege turtle introduces the same nonsense to fights and sieges they might as well rename it to mount vs mount.

[BunjiKugashira.9754]

11 minutes ago, ascii.1369 said:

Not a big fan of the idea, warclaw already removed all interaction on the map. Before warclaw it was actually dangerouse to travle since you could be ganked. Now you ride comfortably across the map, having to dodge the one dismount skill and you're save.

 

If siege turtle introduces the same nonsense to fights and sieges they might as well rename it to mount vs mount.

As much as I don't remember the gamemode being called footsoldier vs footsoldier, I don't remember running around as a world either. It's almost as if the name has nothing to do with the mode of transportation available.

 

That said, I'm not a fan of adding the siege tortoise to WvW either. First of all the tortoise would need to be slower than the warclaw, otherwise it invalidates the mount. If it's slower than running though, you'd just run up to a position and then mount up. It has to hit a speed between running and warclaw, and I'm pretty sure there is no in-between. The second reason is siege damage. Make it too strong and you'll replace normal siege, make it too weak and no one will use it. Again, I'm not too sure there's any space / sweet spot between these extremes.

[ascii.1369]

3 minutes ago, BunjiKugashira.9754 said:

As much as I don't remember the gamemode being called footsoldier vs footsoldier, I don't remember running around as a world either. It's almost as if the name has nothing to do with the mode of transportation available.

Well, the rename thing might have been a silly joke, but the mode of transportation matters very much, not just in WvW. It's the porblem all mmos with mounts face, the world becomes irrelevant because you just zoom through or fly over it, without having to interact with anything (in the case of flying, not even with terrain). In the specific case of WvW it made it so that the space between objectives became sort of irrelevant, because the opponent can't force you to interact with them anymore. This is of course not a black and white issue, there are good arguments for and against mounts and gw2 is one of, if not the game that did it best. But while I can see both pros and cons for mounts in the open world, I genuinly don't see any pros in WvW.

 

15 minutes ago, BunjiKugashira.9754 said:

That said, I'm not a fan of adding the siege tortoise to WvW either. First of all the tortoise would need to be slower than the warclaw, otherwise it invalidates the mount. If it's slower than running though, you'd just run up to a position and then mount up. It has to hit a speed between running and warclaw, and I'm pretty sure there is no in-between. The second reason is siege damage. Make it too strong and you'll replace normal siege, make it too weak and no one will use it. Again, I'm not too sure there's any space / sweet spot between these extremes.

With that I can certainly agree.

[Norbe.7630]

In WvW?.... NO!!!

In a new WvW underwater map/mode? YES!!!

Bring the demn Sea turtles on action cam 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Norbe.7630

[Gorani.7205]

Turtle stream at about 34 minute mark, for reference

"if the community really wants it" ... "we only going to do it, if it make WvW better" ... "highly modified version of it"

 

I fear, that the very vocal minority on the forums, that "just wants fights" (on open fields, where structures are a big nuisance and siege is bad, if you use it) will campaign against the implementation of the Siege Turtle in all over the forums, because it will be "even worse than the Warclaw".

In my opinion, I am not sure what Anet considers "things that make WvW better". Gliding and Warclaw have been the last changed they have put into WvW and that has been years ago. Alliances are only an attempt at balancing population, it is not a change to how the gameplay of WvW works.

Yes, put a "highly modified version" in development now, do not wait years for a swingy community vote about it. Of course we can't make it jump up on walls or run super fast, but shield skills and canon skills could work on a very slow walking turtle that is fed by WvW supply. If it just won't work, OK with me, but don't postpone it from the start.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

as we have mounts yet, it cannot make anything worse. even if they would now add 5 different Wvw mounts, it'd not make anything worse.

 

it's nearly feeling sarcastic when someone says "don't wanna overload Wvw with new stuff"... just yeah, really "new stuff" as in maps and/or map updates and polishing (these npc animals en masse are still there to bring us in battle) would probably be preferred by most people, over new roleplayer mounts.

 

tbh i'd even have a customizable warclaw over numerically more different mounts.

[TheGrimm.5624]

Need more details to be honest. We could use more of everything in WvW. Do we want a game breaking mount, no. Could we use a multi-player siege in WvW, could be fun. Should it have counters, yes. Should it add new play styles and tactics, yes. Should it be OP, no. So maybe a depends options here would help with more votes.

Edited November 30, 2021 by TheGrimm.5624
Grammar

[Flow.2947]

i voted no because they are too powerful. I cant see why you would want to dismount. It would be like lats go ito a turtle wars and no longer wvw. 

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

siege should mainly focus damage on other siege, of that type of anti-siege siege we maybe could use more. or some supportive siege mount that helps a group with buffs/debuffs or as mobile supply depot, whatever it is then

the turtle wars is yet pretty in Wvw - more than half of the servers are supercasual and turtle up with blobs behind 14 arrow carts inside their keeps. cannot get more turtle wars than this, whatever the siege turtle would be then.

like, mounts have a really poor health normally, esp in wvw. the warclaw is the squishiest thing possible and often more a burden than helpful

i also don't know anything about the turtle yet, but new content.like stuff for Wvw would be rather good.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I want it. The jump jets would be a no though for obvious reasons. I'd like if the cannons can attack walls at the level of a catapult, with supply costs.

[gracoslp.2493]

As a WvWer, i say yes to the turtle, yeah it will have to have some specific mechanics, like no jumping, slow movement, only usable by 2 ppl, I mean if you dont have 2 ppl on it, you cant use it, not usable as mount but as a siege unit, etc... thing is, it would be gr8 ti have something new in WvW; ppl is so stuck with the same thing over and over, c'mon guys, we need new content too in wvw, dont be such closed minds, one of the great things in this game is the ammount of content we can do, so why not bring something new to old wvwers it may even bring new ppl to play wvw (which will translate in more ppl playing wvw) just to have fun sieging a building with a turtle!!! I will say YES everytime anet give us new content to wvw.

[Chaba.5410]

What about a siege turtle skin for the warclaw mount?

[Caitybee.3614]

I would prefer the Turtle in WvW over the Warclaw to be honest. It has more potential.

[TheGrimm.5624]

Biggest question for the Turtle in WvW is what role should it have if added?

So will ask, since this time we have a mount that might be added, how do people see this as working? I think the base Warclaw would have been better received if it was understood before hand. I think that people thinking about mounts prior to its release were expecting a faster way to travel around that would have had you dismounted once engaged in combat. Aka something with enough HP to not dismount on minor elevation changes while jumping, but something that triggered dismount on combat damage. Even if it had retained the dodge and stomp it might have not caused as much issue. 

Are we looking at an actual combat mount that we could fight with? Always thought they should have added in glider combat skills like we had in some of the LW maps to make gliding and holding that ground have another perk to controlling an area. Jump off a keep wall and glide bomb the attacking siege as you land on them. Not opposed to mounted combat, but are people ready for that since we would now have a mount that is more than the Warclaw was at launch? Can the mounts only be used in combat when 2 are mounted? That would limit the number. We could also have a mechanic where the mounted players are also damaged as the Turtle is so as not just making them a HP sponge. Risk versus reward, what mechanics does the mount give you that you risk your health pool for to stay on and use?

If we are looking at this as actual siege do you require 2 on the mount for it to be used as siege? If we went with that it could be supply based like other siege, each shot fired eats away 'x' amount of supplies from both riders and once one riders is out, you are out of ammo. Some balance to the mount being a mount versus mounted siege that has some 'price' to use. By actively using supply you don't make it just a supply free way of not having to have supply and siege to attack. For attacking, the current siege should be the most efficient supply cost wise to open objectives in my opinion.

Is this a siege on siege tool or also capable of attacking walls and gates? If both should it do more to enemy siege or walls/gates? To me it would seem to be more of an anti-siege that could also attack walls/gates but be less efficient in that role than normal siege. It could be a good counter to the top of a wall being a death trap for a defending players in a role of counter siege though, and still be balanced with the idea that it has limited ammo and some damage it takes is passed back to the mounted players.

Should it be able to cap or defend from capping an objective ring? Warclaw can't do some things Golem can...so which is it closer to?

If it has mounted combat skills for anti-player is that a damage ability, CC, both? Are we picturing a tool that can spread out a boon ball making it a zerg buster or more for large scale AOE? Is it impacted by CC and/or with a breakbar? With its lack of turning ability is it a get up to speed and then hit a target combat style which would mean individuals would better be able to dodge but large clumps would be more at risk? Since it does have built in 'moves like a truck' that could be its own counter since its a widely telegraphed attack.

That's just some of the details to consider. So its hard to tell if it would a good or bad thing without understanding what it might do. From me, yes would prefer more tools in the toolkit so that fights stay fresh with new ways of fighting and new tactics to be tried and used. Could see mounted and gliding combat more an item in WvW personally, but again your mileage will vary.

2 cents.

Edited December 1, 2021 by TheGrimm.5624
forum double line spacing issue & spelling