"Hard mode" food suggestion

[AquaBR.9250]

With fishing, new ingredients and food are confirmed, so, since open world after season 3 got full on easy mode and veteran players need to have a stroke to die in some open world situations i suggest a type of food that puts the game on hard mode, the way it work is simple:

Instead of increasing stats, it reduces, you can choose if you have damage and condition damage reduced, increased incoming damage and soo on, or have literally everything reduced! 
This food can come with a HUGE magic find and gold and karma gain bonus like 50% +, so if im playing an easy content like path of fire  a starting area with a friend i can turn hard mode on for me and have my outgoing damage reduced by 100% and my incoming damage increased by 100% (since not even the level downscaling and taking my acessories out make so i don't blow veterans with 2 skills) while also getting rewarded a bit more for it.

 

Btw make it usable only outside of combat or people can abuse it by eating this food right before getting a drop after fighting with normal food.

Edited December 17, 2021 by AquaBR.9250

[Ashen.2907]

I cannot speak for others but, for me, the ideal is to see how my character can perform, what obstacles he can overcome, at his best, not whether or not he can handle normal challenges with his hands tied behind his back. Not that I am opposed to your suggestion, but it would not scratch the difficulty itch for me.

[Infusion.7149]

Bloodstone Bisque?
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Bloodstone_Bisque

[AquaBR.9250]

1 hour ago, Ashen.2907 said:

I cannot speak for others but, for me, the ideal is to see how my character can perform, what obstacles he can overcome, at his best, not whether or not he can handle normal challenges with his hands tied behind his back. Not that I am opposed to your suggestion, but it would not scratch the difficulty itch for me.

Thats you, this food would not be for you, don't use it, simple, i at my best literally have not a single challenge in single player open world content nor in story content, and even some group content, THERES NO FUN FOR ME TO JUST DESTROY MOBS WITH ONE SKILL, food that debuffs me and gives me a bonus for that would be cool, if they are not balancing PvE content at least give us that

[moony.5780]

Im surpriced that no die-hard-gw2-veteran-casual answered yet......they usually say all bad things about hardmode without giving a suggestion that could make everyone happy.

 

Without doubt the game badly need a way to balance open world for each person individual. It was the spirit of the base game....to be able to play with everyone and every friend no matter what's the level and just have both fun equally. The powercreep destroyed everything....also the fact that an experienced player can do 20-40k dmg while others do only 1-5k dmg. 

The game at start is really hard (except lvl 1-20) and even more for new player. Also the downscaling works pretty fine for a not lvl 80 char with full equipment. So I really see no reason why the game suddenly should become ridiculous easy for veteran player. It's the only game I know that becomes easier by time and not harder. If this goes on and things get only easier and easier, then anyone who started playing and loving gw2 will leave, because the game is simply not what it was at start. Also the majority plays open world....So forcing everyone in 10 man content as end game is unfair. You love open world a lot? Too bad we only got difficult instances for you here! If you are alone, its your problem, go play another game (Thats how it feels!) I also agree that I want a challenge rather than copping off my leg to run slower, as usually suggested. (Not you, but all the veteran casuals that don't want to make the game balanced for all).

I will post a few suggestions later:)

 

Please Anet, give veteran player a way to enjoy open world again \(^_^)/

 

 

Edited December 17, 2021 by moony.5780

[moony.5780]

So here are my suggestions \(^_^)/

ofc all need some details but that's just a draft.

And by the way, let's all be fair 🙂 we all enjoy the game with our own unique ways. So let's accept that everyone is different and find fun things that don't exclude anyone, may it be because it's too hard or too easy.

 

* remove the powercreep by debuffs, but with a reward for it (like you suggested the food or just simply stronger downscaling, no need to be 3 lvl above mobs)

   + anyone can play together in the same map

   +adjustable for anyone. Everyone can just choose what's comfortable for her/him

   - easy to abuse by afk hardmode tanks and normalmode dps guys.

  - no reason to do this, if there is no reward

 

* split maps in normal and hardmode maps.

  + real challenge, without the chance of beeing abused

   - can't play with friends in normal mode together

 

* scavanger hunt mastery: player beeing able to trigger special events at will with different mechanics. Similar to bountys but with different mechanics. Not just boss fights. And it should be possible everywhere (except lvl 1-15 areas) to rediscover old maps. It could be linked to an achievement system 🙂 it even could be linked to a mastery. Beeing able to see some traces and go around the map like a scavenger hunt sounds fun!

  + play what you what, where you want and with whom you want

  + would bring some fresh gameplay in older maps

  - people who are randomly in the same area are involved in the event, even if they don't like it. (Well they could just go away..but still)

 

* new repeatable achievements:

     *Don't die and get 1000000 exp while that.

     *keep your HP for a certain time above  75% while beeing in combat

     * any other cool idea 🙂

+ can be done alone or in a group. Anywhere and everywhere.

- boring after a while if the rewards are bad.

- best locations might be camped by many....So there should be a way to prevent that.

 

* the game ask every player around in non meta and non achievement events how difficult the event should be (dynamic scaling). So if more player say easy, its easy and if more player say difficult, there could be more monster and stronger ones. There is more much karma for harder events and also rewards for failing it (then like the reward for winning a normal event).

+Since there start to be more and more ways to use karma that's a nice idea to collect karma while explorering older maps 🙂

+adjustable for anyone. Everyone can just choose what's comfortable for her/him.

+- failing an event feels bad, but still gives the same reward as normal events (but fixing the ways to abuse it)

- someone could be overvoted and often find too hard events (that's why it should not include metas and other events that are needed for critical achievements)

Edited December 17, 2021 by moony.5780

[Funky.4861]

There are plenty of challenges in this game, pve included. As i mentioned, HoT hero points, PoF bounties, soloing dungeons are all things the average pve player can't do. If the OP is looking for challenge, maybe they should stop focussing on trash mobs and do the harder stuff- this is without mentioning raids.

[Fueki.4753]

If you need open world to be challenging, take off your armour and trinkets.

There already are options for you to restrict yourself. There's no need to waste developer resources on that.

[Strider Pj.2193]

One of the better ‘hard mode’ suggestions I’ve seen.  It does not infringe upon other players, is completely opt in, and has (possibly but admittedly unknown) impact on developer time.  
 

I would likely not use it but can’t see a good reason not to have an option.  

[Gibson.4036]

I could see using this while my daughter decides to level her umpteenth alt. I have a tendency to kill things way too fast in her story instances, or stand around bored so I don't.

On the other hand, I see people complaining about players in bad gear with bad builds doing low damage output but scaling up events and public instances without contributing. Would those massive bonuses be so tempting it would exacerbate this?

[Lyssia.4637]

55 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

If you need open world to be challenging, take off your armour and trinkets.

There already are options for you to restrict yourself. There's no need to waste developer resources on that.

I've been known to take off my weapons, when I'm level 60+ and trying to help my daughter's 9- in starter areas.  That way, I KNOW I won't steal her kills, and have to really learn how to use utility skills for support.

7 minutes ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

One of the better ‘hard mode’ suggestions I’ve seen.  It does not infringe upon other players, is completely opt in, and has (possibly but admittedly unknown) impact on developer time.  
 

I would likely not use it but can’t see a good reason not to have an option.  

I agree, and could see using it in the above situation, where I want to help someone who needs it and REALLY want to be sure I'm not being intrusive/carrying.  Though, like Funky, I'm not so sure about the OP's actual intentions.

[Strider Pj.2193]

1 hour ago, Gibson.4036 said:

 

On the other hand, I see people complaining about players in bad gear with bad builds doing low damage output but scaling up events and public instances without contributing. Would those massive bonuses be so tempting it would exacerbate this?

That could be a consequence.  

 

Though considering how developers have noted that many people (I’ve heard 90% though I do not have a source) put out very low DPS and the remaining 10ish % do the bulk of the rest, then I would expect those would likely be the people utilizing the food/debuff.  
 

Likely won’t happen, but it would definitely be something to see

[Healix.5819]

We've already experienced this - see magic find gear. It just results in leeching. Before they could even attempt something like this, they would need a proper contribution system.

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I could see using this while my daughter decides to level her umpteenth alt. I have a tendency to kill things way too fast in her story instances, or stand around bored so I don't.

On the other hand, I see people complaining about players in bad gear with bad builds doing low damage output but scaling up events and public instances without contributing. Would those massive bonuses be so tempting it would exacerbate this?

Yea thats the reason we wont see something like this.

We used to have magic find on armor and people used that to have others carry them through dungeons and events.

Anet removed that since it was basicly leeching from other players, the same would be done with the OP suggestion.

Unless it splits up the playerbase into those who do and dont have it activated.

And pretty sure they would have to rebalance most meta events and world bosses if the 5-15% of players that carry the rest went to hard mode maps instead.

[ArchonWing.9480]

4 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I could see using this while my daughter decides to level her umpteenth alt. I have a tendency to kill things way too fast in her story instances, or stand around bored so I don't.

On the other hand, I see people complaining about players in bad gear with bad builds doing low damage output but scaling up events and public instances without contributing. Would those massive bonuses be so tempting it would exacerbate this?

Yea, leeching is already a huge problem and this would just encourage it even more. There's not one major event where you don't see people just lay there dead for 95% of the fight. Maps are not one's solo domain, and if you're decided to handicap yourself in group events, then you're making it harder on everyone else. Just because someone decides the map is too easy, doesn't mean others feel the same way.

I think a good alternative is a challenge mote near world bosses, hero points (daily) or other events, but people get to vote on it, instead of having just some people decide on their own to make it harder for the sake of their own entertainment.

Also, the easiness of Open World has much more to do with the fact that you can just ignore 99% of it with mounts and less so about mob difficulty.

Edited December 17, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Ashen.2907]

14 hours ago, AquaBR.9250 said:

Thats you

Exactly what I said in the post you quoted. Thank you for repeating me, I guess.

 

Interestingly enough, if one is interested in creating challenge for oneself by self handicapping, the option already exists.  Equip no armor and no trinkets. Use an outfit of your choice if you don't want to runaround semi-nude. Take it further if you like, don't assign traits or use utilities. Use starter weapons.

 

Bingo, you have your challenge without having to wait for something to be added to the game.

[Rasimir.6239]

On 12/17/2021 at 4:15 AM, AquaBR.9250 said:

This food can come with a HUGE magic find and gold and karma gain bonus like 50%

I don't mind options to make the game more challenging for yourself, but I do mind this, especially if it's about open world play. As others said before, you don't play by yourself in open world. Your mere presence scales up enemies and events, and thus has an effect on other people around you. Why should you get more magic find, gold, and karma, when people around you participate just the same, possibly even carrying you, and don't get that bonus?

[moony.5780]

Well.....if that debuff is away once the player with the debuff is next to a meta event, then at least half of the problems would be solved...or not?

 

Honestly i see no problem in rewarding those, who do a lot of dps and help to actually keep the event running. Especially if its in normal OW gameplay like killing Moas. Its better to give them a reason to get better an help the rest of the player, than driving them away completly from OW or even GW2. 

Edited December 18, 2021 by moony.5780

[Vilin.8056]

Then getting doubly frustrated because some people afk farms in a worldboss meta make your life extra hard?

[Lyssia.4637]

9 hours ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

I don't mind options to make the game more challenging for yourself, but I do mind this, especially if it's about open world play. As others said before, you don't play by yourself in open world. Your mere presence scales up enemies and events, and thus has an effect on other people around you. Why should you get more magic find, gold, and karma, when people around you participate just the same, possibly even carrying you, and don't get that bonus?

What if you turn it around?  The food completely removes all magic find, gold, and karma.

 

If you seriously just wanted a challenge or were using it (as Gibson and I suggested) only to keep from being bored while helping low level family/guildies, it still provides a fast and easy handicap.  And few enough people would give up all rewards that the, say, two who are using it won't really effect scaling in any reasonably populated map.

 

(Before the hundreds of Confuseds... I'm not gonna lie, there's a touch of snark there.  Asking for the increased rewards is "totally sus," as my daughter would say.)

[Rogue.8235]

On 12/17/2021 at 5:10 AM, moony.5780 said:

The game focus very much on open world PvE. So someone who loves open world PvE plays this game 🙂 and by time everyone gets better and need a challange....this game is nearly 10 years old....so ofc it need to give at least the option to challange the customers of their main focus 🙂

Soloing doungeons and fractals is fun, but not rewarding at all.

 

There is a contradiction of goals here.

You claim to be seeking further enjoyment from gameplay itself with the idea of food items that increase challenge.

However, you consistently raise concerns about in-game rewards.  This seems to be the ultimate goal, still.  It would seem your enjoyment of the game is actually derived from in-game rewards, not the gameplay itself.

An actual, honest concern for more challenge derived from enjoyment of gameplay would not consider in-game rewards, as such rewards are merely coincident effects.

If you are bored merely because the attainment of rewards has become stale, though the primary goal is still the attainment of said rewards, hard mode will not solve the issue.  The issue is that your sole enjoyment of getting in-game rewards is burning you out.  If you cannot derive enjoyment simply from playing the game, the best solution is for you to take a break and come back later.  The alternative is a restructuring of what you, internally, derive joy from, which is not easy nor necessary.

Your proposition would not provide you with lasting benefit.  It would create some short-term enjoyment for the mere sake of a slight change to reward acquisition, but in the long-run you will still arrive at where you are right now, bored from the pursuit of in-game rewards.

Essentially, hard mode, or hard-mode food effects, will not actually solve your problem.  It will only delay the effects of the real problem you face.  I'm not sure how to solve burn-out from pursuing rewards other than taking a break.

 

[moony.5780]

5 hours ago, Rogue.8235 said:

 

There is a contradiction of goals here.

You claim to be seeking further enjoyment from gameplay itself with the idea of food items that increase challenge.

However, you consistently raise concerns about in-game rewards.  This seems to be the ultimate goal, still.  It would seem your enjoyment of the game is actually derived from in-game rewards, not the gameplay itself.

An actual, honest concern for more challenge derived from enjoyment of gameplay would not consider in-game rewards, as such rewards are merely coincident effects.

If you are bored merely because the attainment of rewards has become stale, though the primary goal is still the attainment of said rewards, hard mode will not solve the issue.  The issue is that your sole enjoyment of getting in-game rewards is burning you out.  If you cannot derive enjoyment simply from playing the game, the best solution is for you to take a break and come back later.  The alternative is a restructuring of what you, internally, derive joy from, which is not easy nor necessary.

Your proposition would not provide you with lasting benefit.  It would create some short-term enjoyment for the mere sake of a slight change to reward acquisition, but in the long-run you will still arrive at where you are right now, bored from the pursuit of in-game rewards.

Essentially, hard mode, or hard-mode food effects, will not actually solve your problem.  It will only delay the effects of the real problem you face.  I'm not sure how to solve burn-out from pursuing rewards other than taking a break.

 

If im only looking for rewards, i would not play 80% of my time only open world (without metas) for already 9 years. I dont even do mapcompletation on multiple characters, but play with 2 max 3 main characters only. What keeps me in GW2 is the beautiful and fun Open world and the many ways I can play 1 character and try out 100s of builds. 

I don't know if you ever tried gw1....but if u played it very long, you will understand how much the hardmode gave and how much fun it was for experienced player.

[kharmin.7683]

6 hours ago, moony.5780 said:

 

I don't know if you ever tried gw1....but if u played it very long, you will understand how much the hardmode gave and how much fun it was for experienced player.

That is entirely subjective.  I am an experienced player, but didn't enjoy hardmode in GW1.

[moony.5780]

Just now, kharmin.7683 said:

That is entirely subjective.  I am an experienced player, but didn't enjoy hardmode in GW1.

Well fair enough :) anyanyone have different and unique taste.

[Rogue.8235]

18 hours ago, moony.5780 said:

If im only looking for rewards, i would not play 80% of my time only open world (without metas) for already 9 years. I dont even do mapcompletation on multiple characters, but play with 2 max 3 main characters only. What keeps me in GW2 is the beautiful and fun Open world and the many ways I can play 1 character and try out 100s of builds. 

I don't know if you ever tried gw1....but if u played it very long, you will understand how much the hardmode gave and how much fun it was for experienced player.

 

What I'm referring to, regarding reward-seeking as theultimate goal, is:

 

On 12/17/2021 at 3:10 AM, moony.5780 said:

* remove the powercreep by debuffs, but with a reward for it (like you suggested the food or just simply stronger downscaling, no need to be 3 lvl above mobs)

(emphasis added)

On 12/17/2021 at 3:10 AM, moony.5780 said:

  - no reason to do this, if there is no reward

 

On 12/17/2021 at 3:10 AM, moony.5780 said:

- boring after a while if the rewards are bad.

 

On 12/17/2021 at 3:10 AM, moony.5780 said:

+- failing an event feels bad, but still gives the same reward as normal events (but fixing the ways to abuse it)

(emphasis added)

On 12/17/2021 at 5:10 AM, moony.5780 said:

Soloing doungeons and fractals is fun, but not rewarding at all.

 

The final quote seems to be edited out somewhere.

 

Anyways, challenge is only part of the problem.  Hard mode will not solve the other part which is reward-centric.  Those who seek challenge purely for the sake of challenge do not require in-game rewards, as the mastery of new challenges is, in itself, the reward.

 

Besides, the issue of challenge is not one of stats, but of player skill and the lack of new scenarios to adapt to.  This is highlighted by:

On 12/17/2021 at 2:09 AM, moony.5780 said:

The game at start is really hard (except lvl 1-20) and even more for new player. Also the downscaling works pretty fine for a not lvl 80 char with full equipment. So I really see no reason why the game suddenly should become ridiculous easy for veteran player. It's the only game I know that becomes easier by time and not harder. 

What makes the game easier is not the stats of the character, but the skill level of the player.  

Diminished stats do not make the game harder, it only prolongs the fights that the player is already skilled enough to handle.

To this, I suggest waiting for EoD as new expansions have come with new game mechanics in the open world.  At least that has been the pattern.  I do not think ArenaNet will deviate from this consistency.

Further, Mid level characters scale better than level 80 characters, in that their stats aren't reduced as much as level 80.  This has been consistently tested when I went through alts to get rid of all the birthday experience scrolls.  

For example, a level 80 warrior in all berserker stats downscaled in the starter zone requires more hits to kill a Jotun than a mid level character with level-appropriate mighty or strong gear, such as a level 35 character with all rare gear.

 

Back to challenge, there is no easy way for ArenaNet to constantly scale the game to match the level of player skill.  It requires new mechanics and new designs to subject the players to new combat situations.  This takes time and money.