[Forum Feedback] Over merging of threads.

[JustTrogdor.7892]

First of all this is not a complaint of forum moderation as a whole because I know that is against the rules.  This is a post to bring up what "Guild Wars 2 Discussion"  is for, and that's discussion.   When certain threads are merged into mega threads the discussion gets disjointed and mixed in with too many other posts not related to the thread that got merged.   This has been on my mind for some time and  the reason I finally made this thread was because of this idea that was originally a thread got merged into the 206 page QOL thread:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/96299-suggestionsqol-quality-of-life-ideas-merged/page/204/?tab=comments#comment-1571315

IMO  it was not even a QOL post to start with.  To me QOL means things like minor changes that make things easier on the player like more storage space.  But the above example  is an idea to add to the game and make LA more interesting  that several people contributed  ideas to.  That is until it got mixed up in the other posts in the QOL thread.   Doing so blocks the flow of conversation and ideas for a particular topic because other topics get mixed in among the responses.  It does the opposite of what a "Discussion Forum" is for IMO.   It almost makes an idea read only due to the chaotic nature of the merged thread.  I also understand that apparently the devs read the QOL thread and QOL stuff should be there for I guess a central place for those ideas.   But when you take a discussion that is an idea for how to make a part of the game more interesting or beneficial  and toss it into a mix of several other topics being talked about it is no longer a discussion for the players to contribute to easily.

The thread I mentioned above is just one example of over merging I have observed IMO.  Again I understand when some topics need to be merged because they are all talking about the same thing.  But it seems over the last several months it has gone a bit overboard.    It isn't like this part of the forum is super active these days with "discussion" , it's actually rather slow moving.    So I ask only that when considering merging a thread some actual evaluation of the thread be taken into consideration before pressing the merge button based on someone reporting it. 

I've always liked being part of this forum but I have noticed a trend over the last 6 months or so of a lot more discussions being moved or merged when I think many of those threads were worthy of their own threads and discussion.  Thank you for your time reading my concerns. 

Edited February 23, 2022 by JustTrogdor.7892

[Hashberry.4510]

Things have really been unreadable lately with all the moving and merging.

[kharmin.7683]

The QoL thread has become the de facto Suggestions thread as we've been told that the devs look through that thread.  It's easier for them to do that than to comb through pages of forums for suggestions that players would like to see implemented.

[JustTrogdor.7892]

4 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

The QoL thread has become the de facto Suggestions thread as we've been told that the devs look through that thread.  It's easier for them to do that than to comb through pages of forums for suggestions that players would like to see implemented.

If you even read my entire posts where I mentioned the QoL thread was apparently being read by devs you will know I acknowledge that.   But when ideas are always pushed to a 200+ page thread where many ideas are being discussed at the same time discussion on one topic usually ends.   This is a  discussion forum that often lacks discussion.  As I said above not all suggestions and ideas to improve the game belong in a mega thread that is at best disorganized.  I even question the readability of that thread for the devs that supposedly follow it due to all the cross talk on the topics there.   There is no real discussion here anymore because so much gets merged and pushed around.

Anyway I've said what I wanted to say.  I feel this part of the forum is not so much about discussion anymore as so many topics get moved away from that. I hope it improves.  

Best regards,

JT 

Edited February 23, 2022 by JustTrogdor.7892

[Omega.6801]

I don't mind the recent increase in merges. Why have 5 Tengu threads open at a time, when none of them adds anything of value to a discusion these formuns are having for years now. Same goes for so many "suggestions" that just get posted once per month. Having these threads contained in one, easy to ignore, spot feels like an improvement.

[JustTrogdor.7892]

3 hours ago, lokh.2695 said:

I don't mind the recent increase in merges. Why have 5 Tengu threads open at a time, when none of them adds anything of value to a discusion these formuns are having for years now. Same goes for so many "suggestions" that just get posted once per month. Having these threads contained in one, easy to ignore, spot feels like an improvement.

Like I said merged thread on say Tengu I get.  But when someone posts an idea and says, "Here is my idea on making something interesting.  Let's discuss ideas about it and how it would improve the game."  Then it it gets tossed into a hodgepodge of other ideas with talk about other ideas in a 200+ page thread then it limits the discussion on the topic because the conversation is mixed up in the thread .  But that's just how I feel about it.

This is a a discussion forum but I feel discussion of new ideas is often not encouraged for some reason.   When someone takes the time to make a well though out post to be discussed,  I feel it should be evaluated more closely by the moderators before being pushed aside into a merged thread just because someone mashed the report button. 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by JustTrogdor.7892

[DaFishBob.6518]

4 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

The QoL thread has become the de facto Suggestions thread as we've been told that the devs look through that thread.  It's easier for them to do that than to comb through pages of forums for suggestions that players would like to see implemented.

Well that would explain how a suggestion to add an optional skiff that purposely functions like a piece of junk to the game made it in there. I always assumed QoL suggestions are meant to improve QoL, not be a detriment.

[DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49]

6 hours ago, JustTrogdor.7892 said:

That is until it got mixed up in the other posts in the QOL thread.   Doing so blocks the flow of conversation and ideas for that particular topic because other topics get mixed in among the responses.  It does the opposite of what a "Discussion Forum" is for IMO.    I also understand that apparently the devs read the QOL thread and QOL stuff should be there for I guess a central place for those ideas.   But when you take a discussion that is an idea for how to make a part of the game more interesting or beneficial  and toss it into a mix of several other topics being talked about it is no longer a discussion for the players to contribute to easily.

True, such merging is basically removing a thread from discussion, even already large threads were merged this way, mixing everything making it unreadable.

Merging should be used for the same topic created by few.

And QoL could be just a subforum with separate threads, would be possible to vote for best ideas etc.

[Redfeather.6401]

Over the years I've had some threads merged and it's basically a way to end it and bury it. It's not worth worrying about anymore.

[Sugar Min.5834]

11 hours ago, Hashberry.4510 said:

Things have really been unreadable lately with all the moving and merging.

Perhaps that is the whole idea, to make them unreadable. Merged becomes buried becomes unreadable becomes end of it. Job done.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Mil.3562

[mercury ranique.2170]

First of all, I think the mods are doing a great job.
But I also think there is some room for improvement.

The QoL topics do tend to clutter things up, but the way they are piled now is also not very inviting for people to make them. QoL ideas are welcome and should be taken serious. To adress all things a better solution imo should be to give them a'subsection to the forum.

As for merging when people create a topic bout the same thing. instead of merging and cluttering things up, make the second (and third, fourth, etc) post invisable for all but the OP, with a pm to the OP to explain that they should search before starting a new topic a link to the existing topic where they can say what they want to say, After a week the post is archived. This way people are really encouraged to search before posting and things would not clutter up so much.

I know some people will go on and shout censorship (in some kind of wordings), but that would be debating forum moderation and so a reason for further actions anyways.

[The Boz.2038]

12 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

The QoL thread has become the de facto Suggestions thread as we've been told that the devs look through that thread.  It's easier for them to do that than to comb through pages of forums for suggestions that players would like to see implemented.

A suggestion you'd want discussed and a feature you'd want implemented are not the same thing. It is impossible to follow a conversation in a 200+ page thread with hundreds of ideas, and people just saying "no, that wouldn't work because elementalist", with all context removed.

[Cuks.8241]

I do feel the forum is over moderated sometimes. The huge merges just kill the threads even if some are good. If you want to limit no of threads per topic just lock the non constructive ones and keep the good ones. 

I also think we have to much subforums for the amount of activity. We have subforums for everything and some more. The general "Guild wars 2 discussion" barely has a place anymore. You actually segregate discussions into niches (instanced pve, pvp, wvw, lw...). Its nothing wrong, even better if broader audience discusses even niche topics. Maybe they get some insight into topics they might not read otherwise. 

[The Boz.2038]

2 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

I do feel the forum is over moderated sometimes

Oh, this, hugely so. Heckler's veto is in full power on these forums. Dislike a particular thread? Just start an argument. Pretty soon, a mod will come and lock it for "bickering".

[kharmin.7683]

2 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Oh, this, hugely so. Heckler's veto is in full power on these forums. Dislike a particular thread? Just start an argument. Pretty soon, a mod will come and lock it for "bickering".

Lately, I find that this only happens when the argument begins to devolve into personal attacks and not on the merits (or lack thereof) of the topic.  In those cases, yeah, lock the thread.  I'm pretty sure that many don't care to read through multiple posts going back and forth off-topic or insults toward other posters.

[Gibson.4036]

1 hour ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Lately, I find that this only happens when the argument begins to devolve into personal attacks and not on the merits (or lack thereof) of the topic.  In those cases, yeah, lock the thread.  I'm pretty sure that many don't care to read through multiple posts going back and forth off-topic or insults toward other posters.

The problem is that sometimes the person slinging insults or devolving into arguing about arguing also seems to be against the thread’s discussion. 
 

There will be legit discussion going on, then someone comes along and rapidly posts every other post and the thread gets locked. And like many trolls, some are clever at not breaking any forum rules while doing it. A poster stirs up a storm, and the thread takes the consequence instead of that person.

[Bollocks.4078]

I've seen active discussions get killed by merging.  I think it would be better to let a discussion run it's course, then merge it.  The only drawback to that is that it gives time for the thread to accumulate trolling, bickering and sabotaging.  But that's a whole other issue.

 

It's unfortunate how easy it is for someone to sabotage a discussion.  I wish action would be taken against the individuals rather than the thread.

[Rasimir.6239]

13 minutes ago, Bollocks.4078 said:

I've seen active discussions get killed by merging.  I think it would be better to let a discussion run it's course, then merge it.

I don't think there's a "one size fits all" rule that works here. I've seen threads being merged that were loosely related but felt to me like they were about different topics, and at least one of the topics got killed in the process, but I've also seen situations where seemingly identical discussions were going on in parallel and people got just as confused by that, in which case I felt the merge was totally justified.

 

Am I always happy with the way threads are merged in this forum? No. Am I sometimes confused by looking for a discussion I was interested in and finding it has since been merged somewhere that makes it very hard to follow for me? Sure. But at the same time I've seen plenty of the oposite, too, and people (especially those who seemed to have an agenda where the topic in question was concerned) artificially inflating the importance of the topic and their stance on it by posting the seemingly same thing in half a dozend or more threads that more or less all revolved around the same topic.

 

Generally speaking though I find it easier to follow and participate if threads are merged early on. It's when threads on the same topic run in parallel for a while that things usually get messy. Again though that depends on the individual thread. Some of those that get merged into the suggestions thread would imo benefit from a stand-alone discussion, while others have been discussed so often already, that I can almost predict the individual posters that will post on them and what their postings will be 😉 .

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

I'm happy we finally have a few moderators who take their job seriously and keep this place clean. Sure some of the decisions are questionable, but you have that problem whenever you decide to not just let go. If you act or do not act, it does not matter. There will always be people who disagree with you.

Highly appreciating their efforts in locking topics before they derail too far. And the merging helps overviewing the forums.

Big thanks! Keep up the good work.

[Tiviana.2650]

17 hours ago, Mil.3562 said:

Perhaps that is the whole idea, to make them unreadable. Merged becomes buried becomes unreadable becomes end of it. Job done.

Sadly i agree with you. They really want stuff buried, and lumping it all together in a trash heap is a good way of doing it. I had a thread on improving guild bank function that people agreed with and suddenly its lost in the trash heap. Very disappointed in all of this 

[Fuchslein.8639]

Yeah, i rather wish they would just close Threads when a thema pops up and 10 people post about this at the same time. Its just so confusing xx.

And the QOL-Thread seems more like a toilet-flush to me. I wonder if it's really easier for Anet to forage through there after 100s of threads with ALL the comments are thrown in there. I would understand if the mods make the effort and just put the thread opener in there. But I do not want to know how many pages in the QOL are simply discussions.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Fuchslein.8639

[Blue D Phoenix.7260]

Wouldn't it be better to move it into a subforum instead? Or does it take too much resources? 

[Ashantara.8731]

On 2/22/2022 at 9:04 PM, kharmin.7683 said:

The QoL thread has become the de facto Suggestions thread as we've been told that the devs look through that thread.  It's easier for them to do that than to comb through pages of forums for suggestions that players would like to see implemented.

"Easier" is relative, I guess. When people don't quote the post to which they are responding and their responses get merged into another thread, I imagine it being quite a headache to determine which response goes with what suggestion as all merged content is implemented chronologically.

On 2/24/2022 at 5:25 AM, Blue D Phoenix.7260 said:

Wouldn't it be better to move it into a subforum instead? Or does it take too much resources? 

A "Suggestions" subforum would indeed solve the problem.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[Khisanth.2948]

Surprised this hasn't been merged yet. 🤣

Merging similar threads make sense.

Merging everything into "QoL" thread ... no. JUST NO.

Makes even less sense when they also merge a misplaced possible bug report.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Khisanth.2948

[DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49]

10 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

When people don't quote the post to which they are responding and their responses get merged into another thread, I imagine it being quite a headache to determine which response goes with what suggestion.

Yes, that's another bad thing, on other forums it was discouraged to quote a post right above, but here it's better to always quote everything, even if it look obvious, as we can never be sure if it still be obvious later, as posts can be removed or moved and then replies may look like nonsense.

 

13 hours ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

And the QOL-Thread seems more like a toilet-flush to me. I wonder if it's really easier for Anet to forage through there after 100s of threads with ALL the comments are thrown in there. I would understand if the mods make the effort and just put the thread opener in there. But I do not want to know how many pages in the QOL are simply discussions.

Sure, one thread for ideas could work only as summary, could be with links to threads with discussions, so like subforum. So yes, it's flush thread currently.