DO NOT nerf Dragon's End meta.

[battledrone.8315]

7 hours ago, Einsof.1457 said:

It's funny...before EOD a lot of people complained how there was no gap between casual open world content and raid content. There was no transition content. Well, here is the PERFECT mix between open world and raid. The same people that complained about not having good transition content are probably the same people complaining that one open world event requires a little bit of effort. 

very doubtful, one group is aspiring raiders, the others just want their turtle and call it a day.

maybe a few hundred complained about the difficulty gap, this is way bigger

i am curious to see josh strife hayes's take on this

[Caitybee.3614]

6 hours ago, Einsof.1457 said:

Most people are in-game enjoying farming it right now. So, it's not insanity. It's slightly challenging. 

Definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

[Xero the Dark.8230]

I've legit given up. They don't respect our time, they don't care about our spent money. I'm going back to modded Skyrim. I'll be back eventually. When I cool down...but the fact that they KNEW they were doing it this way. They PLANNED it this way and STILL hyped up the expansion. I was there for every livestream. This is a serious betrayal.

[pugster.9378]

This Meta is simply not nooble friendly because let's face it, most people don't have high attention spans.  Go to Gw2 wiki and you see the attractive turtle in the main page but hey, it is simply a PITA to get it.  Too much mechanics, and it takes too long.  I'm going to give up on this meta as well as well the other EOD meta's in other maps and do my thing.  

Edited March 5, 2022 by pugster.9378

[Alcatraznc.3869]

I managed to beat the boss today and while Anet can still tweak some things, I must say it is much forgiving.

 

The wisp part is mandatory but it no longer stalls the boss fight for 2 min but 1 min 15 sec. It is still vulnerable to trolls and grief but you are less punished. The buff the wisp gives is better now which helps but I think what really helps is the extended duration of the "exposed" debuff for both the boss and the leg it spawns. CC are now even more important as it allows you to brings more DPS. After breaking the CC bar our team started to breeze through the HP treshold. It is the same thing for legendary, once you CC them if your DPS is high enough you can kill them in a single CC bar. 

[Artemis.8034]

They can do what they want with the meta, the issue isnt the meta so much as its the only way to get the turtle. You cant expect people that have never had to do raid like encounters to beat this. and no Teq dont have near the crap going on soo won does. There are other factors at play too the timing of her circling and moving is too fast you barely get some hits on her and poof she circles and again.  These people just want the kitten turtle not have to fight a raid boss after they were told it wouldnt be hard to get. Unlink the mount for the meta or make it so you get the mount even if the boss dont die.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Artemis.8034

[Necrosian.1359]

RNG needs to be removed.

"Go get the tail" > "Watch out shes getting hungry" > "Watch out for her head" > "Shes getting hungry again" > "Watch out for her head" > breakbar at 61% so helpful!

[DylanLucas.6058]

If A-net doesn't change this meta, the casuals will eventually fall off and it's the caual community that the biggest in this game.

 

We also know what happens to "hardcore" games....... they die very soon.

 

 

 

[Johnsen.6253]

Please nerf it, Im not a raider or hardcore elitist jerk. I have a life, family and a job. I play GW for joy and entertainment. Failing the open world meta 10 times in a row doesnt give me enjoyment. You know, no entertainment ->no fun -> no GW2. Keep the No LIFE parts for raids.  Thanks.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Johnsen.6253

[VerserK.6481]

If i know EoD will have this meta, i legit not buying EoD. In fact is there a way to refund this expansion ?

 

Lock a feature (turtle mount) behind a clusterfvck meta that required to organizing rando all over the map is like asking civilians to go to war against a proper soldier.

 

Times already hard, never thought playing gw2 make it feels harder.

[DylanLucas.6058]

6 minutes ago, ShogenSix.3278 said:

21 attempts all fails 2 of these got to 20% this is not fun if you think its fun your a masochist and whats the reward, half useless turtle and barely even any loot oh and a ranger pet

this is something they should have left in a raid or made a closed instance for all the elitest out there give them some accended kitten i just wanna finish my achievements 

ive been playing for 10 years almost weekly since its release and this has soured my feeling for this game im honestly contemplating going to ffxiv and not looking back, the toxcicity alone between the elitest saying git gud and those that just want the mount is so disgusting I was really enjoying the expansion up to this point

 

Im also looking at FFXIV or ESO already......really regret buying this really limited expansion

[Heibi.4251]

1 hour ago, ShogenSix.3278 said:

21 attempts all fails 2 of these got to 20% this is not fun if you think its fun your a masochist and whats the reward, half useless turtle and barely even any loot oh and a ranger pet

this is something they should have left in a raid or made a closed instance for all the elitest out there give them some accended kitten i just wanna finish my achievements 

ive been playing for 10 years almost weekly since its release and this has soured my feeling for this game im honestly contemplating going to ffxiv and not looking back, the toxcicity alone between the elitest saying git gud and those that just want the mount is so disgusting I was really enjoying the expansion up to this point

ANET, this is what I posted about earlier in this thread. People will get frustrated/angry and just quit playing GW2. You hyped up the Siege Turtle, but locked it behind a raid meta. You lead players to believe it would be like most other mounts - available through individual means(hearts, story line, etc.).  As for me, I'll just stop buying GEMS. 

 

Yes, I like challenging events(I raid weekly). But this META is over tuned for an open world event. Casual players are being bullied, the trolls are out in force and elitists are dictating. If people get on a lucky map and acquire the Siege Turtle they will just call it a wrap and no longer come to the META. I would have viewed this META as reason to come back had you not done the Siege Turtle this way. But once I somehow get it I see absolutely no reason to come back. The map will die out quickly since it simply takes too long and the success rate is WAY too low. No idea what the rewards are(I've done the META and failed obviously), but I hear they aren't very good.

 

Act quickly to salvage this META from becoming the least played in the game. Not to mention saving your player base from exiting the game.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Heibi.4251

[Necrosian.1359]

Five switches in a row on last 5% what kind a kitten is this? Who though this was a good idea?

 

[Melech.4308]

On 3/5/2022 at 4:28 AM, DragonMoon.6098 said:

There is much ANet can do to help with optimization. Here are my system specs:

Ryzen 9 5900X w/ 64GB G.Skill TridentZ Neo 3600 CL 16 RAM
Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Dark Hero mobo
EVGA RTX 3090 FTW3 Ultra 
SeaSonic PRIME Platinum 1000W PSU
Samsung 980 Pro 500GB M.2 PCIe 4.0 SSD (operating system)
Samsung 980 Pro 2TB M.2 PCEe 4.0 SSD (games)

....

....

....and I still hit places where my fps drops below 30fps or less. So...yeah. Performance issues are definitely a thing. I wouldn't accuse people of playing on potatoes as the issue when the game lags heavily when you get more than a few players together in one place. My client crashes pretty consistently in WvW when you get a particularly large zerg going...and last night the client disconnected several times while exploring in EoD maps (and that's normally not a thing for me.) And I'm playing on the DX11 beta. 

Yes but you're saying that when it comes to FPS drops. The reason why I said that is because he said that you cannot see red / green AOEs. If it were the case that you cannot see the red / green AOEs and you have the minimum requirements, then yes. That was what I was referring to, not FPS drops.

[SweetPotato.7456]

On 3/2/2022 at 6:30 AM, Blackari.2051 said:

Please Anet for the love of whatever you worship, do not nerf this fight. Finaly there is a boss fight in open world where just spamming #1 is not enough.
Do not listen to cry babies just because finally they have to somewhat pay attention to what is happening. If you really have to do something maybe add an extra minute on timer to the boss fight but not too much...

I second this motion.

[Nezekan.2671]

25 minutes ago, SweetPotato.7456 said:

I second this motion.

You were never this wrong in your life.

[Melech.4308]

On 3/5/2022 at 2:54 AM, Erise.5614 said:

Obviously I'm not talking about infinite durations. When I'm talking about timers here, I'm talking about timers any sensible attempt might run into. If the boss timer was 60 minutes, no real run would fail and the technical limitations would be taken care of. Closing due to underpopulation is still a thing, etc.

That's just a strawman at this point. 

 

How is it a strawman? I directly addressed your first sentence: "Frankly, I don't understand why ANet forces timers so much." and gave an explanation for why timers are necessary for events. This is not a strawman.

But alright, assume for the moment that I did not understand you and we will go with this new explanation of what timers are. Question: What is "sensible" and who gets to decide what is a sensible time to beat the meta? If you say "the devs", then there is no issue then. If you say "the players", then which player or players and why those particular players?

 

On 3/5/2022 at 2:54 AM, Erise.5614 said:

Do you even understand what an incredible time investment you expect here?
Yes, there are people who offer training and stuff. As pointed out. I've tried various, including two listed by you. Didn't enjoy my time with any. It's additional installs, additional organization and all in all a lot of stuff I and many others aren't thrilled about.

 

Yes, I do understand how much time and investment that is. But if you're not willing to devote time and effort to learn all these and do all these, then you're not going to get your rewards for those events that require that much time and investment (e.g. legendary armor).

On 3/5/2022 at 2:54 AM, Erise.5614 said:

All I'm asking is for ANet and you to just accept that I may not enjoy the same things as that part of the community and to let me decide when and how I want to engage with it. Mostly I want to play as well as I can without any further training or anything of the sorts and still get my small rewards and progress towards some long term grind. 

I do accept how you enjoy the game. Whatever you do which is fun for you is absolutely fine with me. I am sure it is also fine with Anet. But as you said, if you want to play as well as you can without any further training, then you will get your small rewards and progress. However, the DE meta is not a "small reward". It's BIG reward.

On 3/5/2022 at 2:54 AM, Erise.5614 said:

This is off handedly mentioning mechanics and then going "eat or die".

 

On 3/5/2022 at 2:54 AM, Erise.5614 said:

None of that is fun. That's not unwinding. It's the opposite of that. It's more stress. If ANet want's me to engage beyond what's currently usual in the rest of the open world, then it needs to be tiny, tiny steps. Teaching, reinforcing, repeating and slowly increasing in difficulty. 

I understand that it can not be fun for plenty of people and I know that mechanics can be daunting, but what would you consider "tiny, tiny steps"? What would be the process that you want Anet to do? Do you want a tutorial on which skills are your CC skills?

On 3/5/2022 at 2:54 AM, Erise.5614 said:

Hahaha. What game are you playing? Map chat is terrible. I have it on right now to increase chances. Even try to help myself. But there's more flaming than useful information in there (neither of which the majority of what's going on there)

My experience with map chat has been good because people actually explain the mechanics. First time going into the DE map, there was already a com saying in public chat what the mechanics were. Another time, I joined an LFG with Discord, and people were helping because they explained all of the mechanics, put down markers, told people when to attack the tail, put down food, etc. When someone had questions, they answered them.

But maybe it's a region thing; I play on EU.

On 3/5/2022 at 2:54 AM, Erise.5614 said:

Only so long as I do what you expect. The moment I don't I'm an afk, 11111111 brainless idiot. 

I mean, your entire comment is one huge version of "git gud". It's phrased nicer. But it's essentially the same. 

But I don't care to git gud. Tried it. Seriously did. But it's not for me. But all you keep saying is "just do it! Just git gud!"

Yes, the entire comment is an essential "git gud" but I was trying to sugarcoat it for you. 

Ok, so, becoming better in the game is not for you and you don't find it enjoyable. That's fine. That just simply means that you cannot get the siege turtle, just like the legendary armor you mentioned. And you will have to be ok with that.

Beating the DE meta is only the first step to get a siege turtle. The next event is defeating the Jade Maw in DE. Then, after that, you need to complete a strike mission in Kaineng Overlook, which requires a strike group, who are probably going to be experienced raiders. All of those must be completed before you can get the turtle. 

And Anet is not going to change the mechanics of the boss: Upcoming Changes to "The Battle For The Jade Sea" - Page 2 - Guild Wars 2 Discussion - Guild Wars 2 Forums. From that post:

"As such, the encounter was designed from the start to be challenging, but progressively more doable as players learn mechanics and how to handle phase transitions."

So Anet expects you to learn the mechanics. There's no way around it.

On 3/5/2022 at 2:54 AM, Erise.5614 said:

How is that caring about me? All you want of me is to play the content you like in the way you enjoy. Without considering that I may not in fact enjoy any of that. While still loving the game.

It's not me forcing you to play like me, it's Anet; if you want the turtle that is. And, to be frank, you redefined "caring" to mean "nerf the DE boss because I do not want to learn mechanics of the game and because I do not enjoy learning.". As Anet said in that post, the mechanics are still there, and they are not nerfing the overall health of the boss. They may reduce the time of the wisp phase, but you still have to do the phase. 

[Melech.4308]

On 3/5/2022 at 3:55 AM, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

And that right there is the very definition of Elitism

You can call it whatever you like. But at the end of the day, if someone joined an experienced raid group, on the role they can play, who showed KP, and they failed the mechanics a certain number of times, then a commander has to make a decision: 

Kick the person who failed the mechanic

OR

Call off the raid

Most of the time, it's the former because it's easier to kick someone out of the group and look for someone else in LFG.

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

10 minutes ago, Melech.4308 said:

You can call it whatever you like. But at the end of the day, if someone joined an experienced raid group, on the role they can play, who showed KP, and they failed the mechanics a certain number of times, then a commander has to make a decision: 

Kick the person who failed the mechanic

OR

Call off the raid

Most of the time, it's the former because it's easier to kick someone out of the group and look for someone else in LFG.

OK so how does that apply to Open World Content? Do you just kick people you don't want off the map? Do you just call off an entirely server side scheduled Meta-Event because one person failed a mechanic? Oh right, you can't do any of those. People can cry KP or "GeT oFf MaP pLz" all they want, it ain't happening cuz that's something no one can control. 

Maybe don't compare one content to another unless you actually understand the difference between the two. This isn't a simple case of making a Raid group, there's an entirely different set of problems with an entirely different group of people to consider. 

[Melech.4308]

30 minutes ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

OK so how does that apply to Open World Content? Do you just kick people you don't want off the map? Do you just call off an entirely server side scheduled Meta-Event because one person failed a mechanic? Oh right, you can't do any of those. People can cry KP or "GeT oFf MaP pLz" all they want, it ain't happening cuz that's something no one can control. 

Maybe don't compare one content to another unless you actually understand the difference between the two. This isn't a simple case of making a Raid group, there's an entirely different set of problems with an entirely different group of people to consider. 

I wasn't talking about open world content in this context. I said "if someone joined an experienced raid group, on the role they can play, who showed KP, and they failed the mechanics a certain number of times...". Just from what I said, it is very clear I wasn't talking about open world content, but I was talking about raids. 

And if THAT wasn't enough, take a look at what I mentioned the options of the commnader had when someone failed a mechanic a certain number of times:
 

"Kick the person who failed the mechanic

OR

Call off the raid"

Take a look at the latter option: "Call off the raid". When did I say that open world content were raids?

Edited March 6, 2022 by Melech.4308

[Brokenangel.1389]

Is a difficult open world meta something GW2 should have?

Sure, why not?

 

Is this, that?

No.  Dragon's End is not a meta event.  Dragon's End is a Raid.  Period.

 

And is that a good thing?

No, it really isn't.  An Open World Raid is going to be something the average, casual player is going to struggle to complete, is going to be griefed for not being "pro" (just look at some other threads were people are like 'u ned 2 git gud'), or is going to be trolled by people who purposefully work to make the event fail.

 

Does the this event need to change?

I would say so, yes.  However, I am not a game designer, so I don't have the first suggestion as to how.  But based on the in game feedback for this event (and the majority of responses, so it appears, on this forum), the player base seems to think this event is... awful.

[Melech.4308]

12 minutes ago, Brokenangel.1389 said:

Is a difficult open world meta something GW2 should have?

Sure, why not?

 

Is this, that?

No.  Dragon's End is not a meta event.  Dragon's End is a Raid.  Period.

 

And is that a good thing?

No, it really isn't.  An Open World Raid is going to be something the average, casual player is going to struggle to complete, is going to be griefed for not being "pro" (just look at some other threads were people are like 'u ned 2 git gud'), or is going to be trolled by people who purposefully work to make the event fail.

 

Does the this event need to change?

I would say so, yes.  However, I am not a game designer, so I don't have the first suggestion as to how.  But based on the in game feedback for this event (and the majority of responses, so it appears, on this forum), the player base seems to think this event is... awful.

Just wanted to clarify that DE is an open world meta event. It is not a raid. Raids are different. Here's the definition of what a raid is, from Anet itself:

"Raids are 10-player, instanced, elite dungeon content that's a challenge unlike anything we've previously released in Guild Wars 2. These raids are meant to put you and your teammates to the test and challenge you to grow your skills as Guild Wars 2 players. Raids are our answer to what skilled PvE players have to look forward to at endgame—the ultimate test to overcome and defeat."

source: Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns (guildwars2.com)

Also, they already released an update to DE a few days. ago: Upcoming Changes to "The Battle For The Jade Sea" - Guild Wars 2 Discussion - Guild Wars 2 Forums

The longer duration for exposed (and thus the burn phase) and reduced time for the wisp phase really helps a lot.

[blp.3489]

I wonder if needing this event to get the siege turtle actually leads relatively casual players to participate, thereby diluting the DPS of the group as a whole?  Don't get me wrong, I AM one of those relatively casual players, but I'm going to stay well clear of this event because I don't want to be "that guy" who does something wrong and flushes two hours of work by each of 49 players down the toilet.  It just seems odd that you try to drive your casual players into an events where we will only frustrate the players that are up to this level of content.

I wonder why they don't use a system like in the Lunar New Year event where the number of chests you can open is determined by your participation/performance in the half dozen events that occur before the chests appear.  People who perform really well get lots of "keys" and lots of rewards and the event doesn't fail on a hard timer, the rewards that are earned with meeting the timer are just lost.  People that fail the mechanics or afk end up with minimal rewards.  Everyone should be happy.

With respect to the siege turtle, the final fight in the story has mechanics galore, I don't see why completing that doesn't get you your turtle egg.  Siege turtles aren't the same as legendary items at all, if they were intended to be then that should have been made clear before purchase that you will only get one if you have "got good".

It would also be cool if the buffs you get from the pre-events came in the form of a consumable so that you could separate out those events and not have to do the whole two hours at once, but still be fully buffed for the main event.

Edited March 6, 2022 by blp.3489

[branwen.1049]

I'm genuinely not going to bother with the meta until they re-tune the fight, turtle be damned. I don't want the stupid thing badly enough that I'm going to force myself to sit through 2 hours of pre-meta events only to fail repeatedly at ~20% just because of crappy RNG rolls with boss movements and attacks. (Not to mention all the elite spec collections that require the meta to be completed? I'd rather slap my hand on a hot burner a few hundred times, thanks. At least I'd get something out of that.)

 This feels like it should be a raid. Or a strike. Not an open world meta that takes 2 hours with no rewards or anything to show for it AT ALL if you fail it. Which you absolutely will! Multiple times! Until you get RNG lucky in the boss fight, and have enough dps to remotely try finishing it.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Giovanelli.6071

[Vixo.7912]

On 3/2/2022 at 7:22 AM, Slowpokeking.8720 said:

meta should not be hard at all, since you only got 1 try for several hours and can't pick your team.

 

If you want something hard, choose a strike mission and get your fun.

This one SHOULD be hard tho, its END game meta, if want an easy one choose AB and get your fun.
so far this meta isn't even hard if people understood when to CC and how to dodge.