Guys, don't be afraid to try Raids

[Fuchslein.8639]

22 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Just the title of the post turns me off from raids.   Raiders are assuming I don't raid because I'm afraid.  I raid about once a week now, and I don't really enjoy it, even though I'm with a great training guild. It's just not my preferred content. I have less fun raiding than I do doing other content. It's not that enjoyable to me.

Now, a raider comes along and suggests the only reason I don't raid is because I'm scared of it. The raiding community like it so much that they're going to tell us that we'd all raid if we were good as them, or only tried or only put in the effort.  It's just not true.

Imagine me standing on a street corner and trying to get people to come eat vegetarian food because they enjoy it. You don't have to be scared of eating vegetables. People would be annoyed because they just like meat. They're not scared.

The very fact that you think most people want to raid but they're scared, or they'd enjoy it if they only tried it is in fact one of the reasons I don't like some raiders. They have this idea in their head that because they like something it has value.

You know, I'm a huge fan of the WWE.  If you weren't so scared of it, you could come watch it with me. There are people who can help explain the long time storylines to you, and you'd like it. If only you weren't so scared.

Do you see how that sounds to someone who doesn't like it because it's not something they like?

He did not assume YOU are affraid of raids. But there are posts here in the forum where people state that raids intidate them.

This thread is again a perfect example. People who were not meant feel addressed and attacked.

TE tried to encourage people and wanted to be nice and helpfull, and as always, people on this forum come and turn it in a negative thing ...

Also, he is not all Raiders. Raiders don't assume stuff here. He is ONE person, and he also did not assume anything. You assume this stuff.

Rant end <3. Let the confused-emotes flow~

Edited March 27, 2022 by Fuchslein.8639

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, SinisterSlay.6973 said:

40k? Wow I am struggling to push past 9k on harbinger.

Most groups -to carfully avoid using "nobody", since it's probably never actually "nobody" in regards to anything- in lfg aims at anything near 40k nor "perfect rotations". Again, these are the equivalent of urban legends, repeated by people that never tried the content, but instead repeat the feearmongering they see from the others on the forum. As I said, one of the reasons I also didn't even attempt entering raid content for a long time.

 

37 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Just the title of the post turns me off from raids.   Raiders are assuming I don't raid because I'm afraid. 

OP didn't write anything close to "anyone who's not raiding is afraid of raids -signed, raiders". Instead he said he sees a lot of people afraid to try that content and directs his post to those people.

Edited March 27, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Xerxez.7361]

As far as rewards go I'd say once you learn all the raids and can preform them Weekly it's 60g Average (Higher with CMs), 10 Mystic Clovers (New), and the ability to work towards Legendaries.

 

Communities like Raid Academy will direct you towards guides on how to setup your class for Raids as well as rotations for getting the most out of your class.

 

[mindcircus.1506]

Interesting how many people on both sides of this issue feel the need to present their personal feelings/reasons as everyone's feelings/reasons.

[Vayne.8563]

47 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

He did not assume YOU are affraid of raids. But there are posts here in the forum where people state that raids intidate them.

This thread is again a perfect example. People who were not meant feel addressed and attacked.

TE tried to encourage people and wanted to be nice and helpfull, and as always, people on this forum come and turn it in a negative thing ...

Also, he is not all Raiders. Raiders don't assume stuff here. He is ONE person, and he also did not assume anything. You assume this stuff.

Rant end <3. Let the confused-emotes flow~

 Yes, no raider has ever said this before. It's never been implied.  Yes people have said. How many people by percentage of people don't raid dont' do them because they're scared though.  I get that  this guy wants us to raid because he enjoys raiding, and that some people don't raid because they're scared to , but I don't think that's most of us. 

 

I think most non-raiders aren't interested in raids because that type of content doesn't interest them.  Yes I get that he was helpful. But I wonder if it wouldn't annoy more people than it would help if only he phrased it differently.

 

The title could have been, it's easier to get started raiding than some people might 7think and it wouldn't have bothered me at all.  As  it is, he posted something I didn't like and I  said so. Some would say that's what forums are for.

[Gregg.3970]

1 hour ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

He did not assume YOU are affraid of raids. But there are posts here in the forum where people state that raids intidate them.

This thread is again a perfect example. People who were not meant feel addressed and attacked.

TE tried to encourage people and wanted to be nice and helpfull, and as always, people on this forum come and turn it in a negative thing ...

Also, he is not all Raiders. Raiders don't assume stuff here. He is ONE person, and he also did not assume anything. You assume this stuff.

Rant end <3. Let the confused-emotes flow~

Totally agree. 

Hat-off to OP for making the thread as it's a more positive slant from what we normally see.

And yes there is a collective of Casual PvE players ARE afraid of Raids, they ARE afraid of Fractal CM's,  due to being ridiculed or kicked by "Elitists" but hey what ? Not all Raiders, Frac CM players are Elitists: They're just regular players that play the content.  Some ARE Elitist / Speed-runners hence the 250Li requirements and such, but easy to avoid those groups if you don't have the Li.

But, additionally there are a collective of Casual PvE players that simply don't like the constraint (mainly time) needed for the organisation of a Raid Group, waiting for players, the actual Raid itself, and the rewards earned for the time spent - Not everyone has the luxury of time to devote to this.  But this is fine too.  We're all different and enjoy different game modes. 

Things are all back-to-front imo anyway, Strikes I would think should have been developed and implemented prior to Raids, not the other way around. (But I find: Strikes/Raids are like Marmite: Either loved or loathed by the Community!!! )  I really don't know what Anet was thinking in trying to push the Casual playerbase into Strikes, tied to new EoD achievements and Turtle acquisition. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Gregg.3970

[Hesione.9412]

11 hours ago, jcH.7109 said:

I've seen too many people here who think raids are full of unfriendly and rude elitists who think they're part of an exclusive circle. This view is NOT aligned with reality. There are good communities who are more than willing to accept new people and form Raid Training groups to teach them. For example, Raid Academy is a perfect place to start. Just join the discord, follow the rules, and join a raid training group where you can learn the mechanics and such. https://discord.com/invite/gw2ra

 

I want raids to become popular so that Anet will make more new raids. Cantha raids would be dope.

EDIT:

Raid Academy is for NA.

Raid training community for EU: The Crossroads Inn https://discord.com/invite/nDcv395

High ping punishes a bunch of us in raids. I'm not interested in being hit by stuff I can't react to. I average around 260 ping. That means it takes 520 milliseconds just for information to get to me and back to the server. That gives me less than half a second to see what is happening on the screen and accurately react to it. I'm not that good.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Hesione.9412

[Sarius.9285]

4 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

It has been my general experience that raiders do not like anyone without 90% benchmarks and 30-50 killproof.  If you can get any of them in chat, it will become very clear they look down on other player

then you had an extremely unlucky bad experience. Cause those people are absolutely the minority 

[Zavijah.2695]

Not enough care for raiding, and that's why you made this post. The post isn't also going to change anyone's minds either. 

Raiding in this game sucks, just as much as dungeons. It's strength lies with Open World events and WvW. 

I do not want to see them devote any more time to raiding, and I certainly don't want to see any more balance issues to the game based on what high end group composition can do together. 

[Obfuscate.6430]

There is the possibility that for some people the difficulty/engagement requirement of Raids is not fun. 
Guild Wars 2 had been advertised as the defacto play how you want game. Consider that nowhere in the game does it ask the player to learn what the stats on the gear means, or requires them to even wear appropriate gear for certain level content. Consider that many people in late game areas do not know what their CC abilities are. Most people will never encounter something unsurmountable in open world.  Finally, for some people , this is their first and maybe only game they play, or play regularly - meaning they may not have a certain mind or skill set that seems to be baked in to regular video game enthusiasts. 

I won't speak for everyone though, only for myself - that kind of play where I have to have certain stats, watch my rotation, watch party positions, closely watch boss mechanics - and do that continually for more than 10 minutes at a stretch while depending on my party to do the same is exhausting. That's not fun for me, that's work. 

*tangent: If I had to choose between new raids, strikes or WvW getting an overhaul - I would choose WvW.  It has less of a barrier to entry and skill and time investment vs reward. You can solo, you can zerg, the reward tracks are worth it (imo). The downside is, I can't play with my friends from other servers, but also it's profoundly boring. I don't really know how people play WvW exclusively - there isn't much to do there. 

Bringing it back around: Raids  are valuable and attract a certain player; for some players they are the end game and encompass a feeling of an epic battle and engender a feeling of comradery with your fellow gamer in a way wvw and other open world content just can't . But man this stuff isn't for every one and that's not necessarily a bad thing. Guild Wars 2 has so much to offer - a little bit of everything for everyone. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Obfuscate.6430

[Borked.6824]

14 minutes ago, Zavijah.2695 said:

I do not want to see them devote any more time to raiding, and I certainly don't want to see any more balance issues to the game based on what high end group composition can do together. 

I've been saying this for awhile.  This is not the game you go to for raiding/instanced content.  Go watch the recent RWF on WoW  You go there for proper raiding.  You play GW2 for open world events, because they're bespoke.  No other game does what GW2 does with OW.  Resources need to be taken out of lost causes and invested more in things like what they've been doing with Dragon's End.  

But then again, what's the difference?  It all comes down to the group-finding system being abysmal anyway.  Raiding, pvping, RPing, circle-jerking.  It's all garbage if you can't find a group without losing your wits.

[TheGrimm.5624]

7 hours ago, Sarius.9285 said:

seriously how would that work? 

 

There are so many different things you need to consider for a working composition that an automatic system would never work.

 

You would simply have a different level of the mechanics, mob health and abilities for a random match making group, you would also reduce the quality or quantity of reward with the lowered difficulty. This isn't a new concept, other games have already done this. 

[Sarius.9285]

12 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

 

You would simply have a different level of the mechanics, mob health and abilities for a random match making group, you would also reduce the quality or quantity of reward with the lowered difficulty. This isn't a new concept, other games have already done this. 

okay, so pretty much what they did with the new strikes? So just a watered down story version, so people can experience the story? That could actually work 

[Linken.6345]

16 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

 

You would simply have a different level of the mechanics, mob health and abilities for a random match making group, you would also reduce the quality or quantity of reward with the lowered difficulty. This isn't a new concept, other games have already done this. 

And how would the game know who is the tank, is it the one with the most toughness?

Well might be there is a condi dps that feel rabid is what they need to play how they want and they suddenly have most toughness that group would quickly fall apart.

So since the game cant know if the chrono is tank or dps.

That guardian can be either tank, dps or quickness/dps or healer providing quickness.

This game dont have roles like for example wow were every tank are speced the same way hard coded by the game.

Edit

Or do you just want the game to throw together 5 or 10 people depending on content and just call it a day?

Yea go try the public icebrood saga strikes or drms and see how well that played out.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Linken.6345

[Dragonman.1623]

11 hours ago, jcH.7109 said:

I've seen too many people here who think raids are full of unfriendly and rude elitists who think they're part of an exclusive circle. This view is NOT aligned with reality. There are good communities who are more than willing to accept new people and form Raid Training groups to teach them. For example, Raid Academy is a perfect place to start. Just join the discord, follow the rules, and join a raid training group where you can learn the mechanics and such. https://discord.com/invite/gw2ra

 

I want raids to become popular so that Anet will make more new raids. Cantha raids would be dope.

EDIT:

Raid Academy is for NA.

Raid training community for EU: The Crossroads Inn https://discord.com/invite/nDcv395

Dude, tried to join the new kaining strike (those things meant to prepare you for raids) the group leader want a minimum of 500 legendary insights for a strike. Not saying all but a loud minority of raid players are quite snobbish.

[Dragonman.1623]

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

And how would the game know who is the tank, is it the one with the most toughness?

Well might be there is a condi dps that feel rabid is what they need to play how they want and they suddenly have most toughness that group would quickly fall apart.

So since the game cant know if the chrono is tank or dps.

That guardian can be either tank, dps or quickness/dps or healer providing quickness.

This game dont have roles like for example wow were every tank are speced the same way hard coded by the game.

Edit

Or do you just want the game to throw together 5 or 10 people depending on content and just call it a day?

Yea go try the public icebrood saga strikes or drms and see how well that played out.

Honestly they should take a page out of eso's book. Give players buttons which are the roles layed out here that put an icon next to their name in the match maker that when highlighted over shows what they're playing. The system can then see what they've selected and put x amount of each kind of player into the raid party.

[Linken.6345]

4 minutes ago, Dragonman.1623 said:

Honestly they should take a page out of eso's book. Give players buttons which are the roles layed out here that put an icon next to their name in the match maker that when highlighted over shows what they're playing. The system can then see what they've selected and put x amount of each kind of player into the raid party.

Yea and you could get dps players in anything from soldier to minstrel armor that hardly do any damage at all.

You could get dps players queing as tanks and healers just to get group popups faster.

Did you even think through this suggesting before typing it down?

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

3 hours ago, Sarius.9285 said:

then you had an extremely unlucky bad experience. Cause those people are absolutely the minority 

Experiences.  As in, more than once.  

[morsdood.1987]

I get what you're trying OP but honestly don't bother, you can be as accomodating to the hypercasuals as possible and they'll still find a way to get offended and angry, that earlier rant from that dude about the thread title is a good example

They've written the gamemode and its playerbase off often due to a flawed perspective or a bad LFG experience, they won't consider, they won't try, you can show them the friendliest training communities and they'll already be put off by the request that they at bare minimum look at and equip a semi-functional build and gearset just so they don't drag down the other 9 people of who the majority are also trainees

You could literally make a gamemode for them to serve as a stepping stone to the slightly more difficult content and they'd probably just end up paying boosters for an overpriced carry instead of just putting in some slight effort to earn their rewards.. oh wait..

[Vayne.8563]

9 minutes ago, morsdood.1987 said:

I get what you're trying OP but honestly don't bother, you can be as accomodating to the hypercasuals as possible and they'll still find a way to get offended and angry, that earlier rant from that dude about the thread title is a good example

They've written the gamemode and its playerbase off often due to a flawed perspective or a bad LFG experience, they won't consider, they won't try, you can show them the friendliest training communities and they'll already be put off by the request that they at bare minimum look at and equip a semi-functional build and gearset just so they don't drag down the other 9 people of who the majority are also trainees

You could literally make a gamemode for them to serve as a stepping stone to the slightly more difficult content and they'd probably just end up paying boosters for an overpriced carry instead of just putting in some slight effort to earn their rewards.. oh wait..

The OP is a benefit to the raid community. This post does it an injustice.

Labeling everyone as either raiders or hyper casuals would be fine if everyone was a raider or hypercasual, but it's just not the case. There are plenty of people in between.  This is the kind of toxicity that the OP is trying to overcome. You've gone and proven the "hyper-casuals" right.

Yes certain people won't be receptive to the OP, but other people might.  The raiding community needs more people like the OP than they do people who are driving people away by posting this sort of silliness.  

[Fuchslein.8639]

6 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

 Yes, no raider has ever said this before. It's never been implied.  Yes people have said. How many people by percentage of people don't raid dont' do them because they're scared though.  I get that  this guy wants us to raid because he enjoys raiding, and that some people don't raid because they're scared to , but I don't think that's most of us. 

 

I think most non-raiders aren't interested in raids because that type of content doesn't interest them.  Yes I get that he was helpful. But I wonder if it wouldn't annoy more people than it would help if only he phrased it differently.

 

The title could have been, it's easier to get started raiding than some people might 7think and it wouldn't have bothered me at all.  As  it is, he posted something I didn't like and I  said so. Some would say that's what forums are for.

No, you and other people here did put words in the mouth of the te, which he not said. THIS is my understanding of toxic communication. And this is my overly experience with "casuals" who don't like raids(in exchange with peoplehere saying only "elitist" raiders afe toxic). Instead of trying to understand they belittle us raiders, say things we didn't say and want that content get cut because THEY don't like it.

But hey, we raiders, wefe ALL just toxic. In reality, this toxicity what people are talking about here is probably the minority of their experience. Like people who always post that they have experienced xy in OW. Only that then the majority comes and says move on, its a game.  People are so paradox ...

[Ashen.2907]

7 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Now, a raider comes along and suggests the only reason I don't raid is because I'm scared of it.

This is a misrepresentation of the OP's post. The need to lie/engage in strawman arguments to make a point  demonstrates that the point is unfounded.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

The state of dungeons argues that raids are a thing of the past.  ANet has moved on from raids.  Strikes are now where it's at.  That said, strike bosses are becoming more like raid bosses with each new strike, with perhaps a minor dip from Boneskinner to Aetherblade, but ramping back up after that.

 

I can believe that some players who don't raid might end up doing the harder strikes, so maybe the strike method is working.  I don't, however, believe that players will flock to harder content in huge numbers because strikes have a ramp-up curve.  After all, raids also have such a curve and that didn't make a huge difference.

 

The real reason why a lot of players won't raid, or won't strike is because that type of content is aimed at a different sort of player.  If your purpose in playing is to chill out (kill some mobs, do some stuff, get some stuff) after a stressful time in RL, then adrenaline-inducing content is not going to fill the bill.  Chemically, adrenaline increases stress.

 

That said, I don't think it's a bad idea for the OP to say what's been said.  Any initiative that attempts to dispel the image of adrenaline-seeker players as exclusionary elitists is a positive.  On the other side of the divide, any initiative to dispel the image of chill-out-players being lazy, wanting to be carried and/or wanting something for "logging in" would be a positive.

 

So, kudos, OP.  I hope it works, though my cynicism says that raids are dead in the water at this point.

[Vayne.8563]

31 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

No, you and other people here did put words in the mouth of the te, which he not said. THIS is my understanding of toxic communication. And this is my overly experience with "casuals" who don't like raids(in exchange with peoplehere saying only "elitist" raiders afe toxic). Instead of trying to understand they belittle us raiders, say things we didn't say and want that content get cut because THEY don't like it.

But hey, we raiders, wefe ALL just toxic. In reality, this toxicity what people are talking about here is probably the minority of their experience. Like people who always post that they have experienced xy in OW. Only that then the majority comes and says move on, its a game.  People are so paradox ...

But I do raid. Therefore, how can I be a toxic casual?  I never said all raiders were toxic. I never even claimed the OP was toxic. Are you trying to say I have to like the way he phrased his post because he's trying to help? Because I don't think what I said was unreasonable.

Maybe next time, he'll say something to include people other than just the scared ones.

[Vayne.8563]

2 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

This is a misrepresentation of the OP's post. The need to lie/engage in strawman arguments to make a point  demonstrates that the point is unfounded.

Editing this post to be less confrontational.

You're probably right. Not that I misrepresented the OP's post, but that I reacted emotionally to the title rather than the substance of the rest of the post. I still maintain the title could have been much better, because a lot of us casuals have heard for too long that we only don't raid because we're bad or we're scared.  And that's problematical because if my immediate reaction is annoyance, I'm sure not going to be the only one.

I don't actually believe most people who don't raid are scared of raids. I believe it's just not the content that we enjoy.

So I'll take this moment to apologize to the OP for my reaction, even though it's a real reaction, and I'll take this time to thank Ashen for keeping me grounded.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Vayne.8563
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