3 Elite specs is enough. We shouldn't get more. Time for something new.

[Redfeather.6401]

This process of adding new subclasses can't go on forever without repercussions. A 4th elite spec is just going to compete with existing specs in ways that is not healthy for the game. Control, damage, support. Those are essentially the 3 elite specializations we need per class. Every new elite is going to be compared to whatever elite it's stepping on the toes of and start a petition for better spec balance.

 

Adding something new to core classes will revitalize ALL elite specs and enrich characters as a whole. It is a far more efficient method of progression now that we have a strong base of roles per class. The game should seriously consider now going that route. I'm ready for the 'downvotes'! 

[Tachenon.5270]

I'd like some 'new' old professions: monk, ritualist, dervish, paragon, and maybe even a proper assassin. That might entice me to buy more character slots. 😁

Alternately, maybe some sort of wild and crazy GW1 type of dual-professing. Dual-professionalism? You get what I mean. Allow, say, a core ranger to take a core warrior trait line, or something like that. Might be fun.

See also: absolutely no pet whatsoever ranger, and one-element specialist elementalist.

[Sarius.9285]

1 hour ago, Redfeather.6401 said:

Control, damage, support

yea, and Anet didn't give everyone a fitting spec for that, just looking at Warrior for example. They really need to come up with something 

[Gibson.4036]

Wouldn't it be 4, not three? Control, power, condi, support?

[Artyport.2084]

I'm hoping they do armor specialization.

each armor set will add 1 new weapon across each class+ and elite and three options to choose from as a "super master trait*

 

further specializing each spec we currently have.
 

example: daredevil

All types of thieves gain access to the greatsword when equipping heavy armor

when daredevils put on heavy armor they become 

Shonin: agile heavy armor wearers that slice through enemies. 

all medium focused thieves gain longbows

Daredevils maintain there name in medium armor but gain access to a bow dodging and shooting long range arrows at their enemies 

 

all light armor thieves gain an offhand focus

a daredevil in light armor becomes a dancer and its traits allow it to supper allies while dancing across the battlefield 

 

 

So in essence character will focus on a specific armor type and based on that armor type it would further customize the spec. Light animation changes could happen like making all of the daredevils jumps dances 

 

daredevil: shonin(heavy)daredevil(medium)dancer(light)

 

Specter:

Darknight(heavy)Specter(Medium)warlock(light)

 

Deadeye

Gravedigger(heavy)deadeye(medium)shadowhunter(light)

 

 

 

[Redfeather.6401]

5 minutes ago, Artyport.2084 said:

I'm hoping they do armor specialization.

each armor set will add 1 new weapon across each class+ and elite and three options to choose from as a "super master trait*

 

further specializing each spec we currently have.
 

example: daredevil

All types of thieves gain access to the greatsword when equipping heavy armor

when daredevils put on heavy armor they become 

Shonin: agile heavy armor wearers that slice through enemies. 

all medium focused thieves gain longbows

Daredevils maintain there name in medium armor but gain access to a bow dodging and shooting long range arrows at their enemies 

 

all light armor thieves gain an offhand focus

a daredevil in light armor becomes a dancer and its traits allow it to supper allies while dancing across the battlefield 

 

 

So in essence character will focus on a specific armor type and based on that armor type it would further customize the spec. Light animation changes could happen like making all of the daredevils jumps dances 

 

daredevil: shonin(heavy)daredevil(medium)dancer(light)

 

Specter:

Darknight(heavy)Specter(Medium)warlock(light)

 

Deadeye

Gravedigger(heavy)deadeye(medium)shadowhunter(light)

I have never thought about stuff like that before. I see what you are saying and that's really interesting. I just hope for anything other than more elites specs, and something new that enriches all the specs. You got an idea that could do that.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Redfeather.6401

[LucianDK.8615]

never enough new specs.

[Kurrilino.2706]

22 minutes ago, Artyport.2084 said:

I'm hoping they do armor specialization.

each armor set will add 1 new weapon across each class+ and elite and three options to choose from as a "super master trait*

 

further specializing each spec we currently have.
 

example: daredevil

All types of thieves gain access to the greatsword when equipping heavy armor

when daredevils put on heavy armor they become 

Shonin: agile heavy armor wearers that slice through enemies. 

all medium focused thieves gain longbows

Daredevils maintain there name in medium armor but gain access to a bow dodging and shooting long range arrows at their enemies 

 

all light armor thieves gain an offhand focus

a daredevil in light armor becomes a dancer and its traits allow it to supper allies while dancing across the battlefield 

 

 

So in essence character will focus on a specific armor type and based on that armor type it would further customize the spec. Light animation changes could happen like making all of the daredevils jumps dances 

 

daredevil: shonin(heavy)daredevil(medium)dancer(light)

 

Specter:

Darknight(heavy)Specter(Medium)warlock(light)

 

Deadeye

Gravedigger(heavy)deadeye(medium)shadowhunter(light)

 

 

 

 

And what has all this to do with a thief???

 

Thiefs are quick and mobile characters acting short range.

Sniper rifle was already a stretch

 

How someone is supposed to silently climb a roof in heavy armor is far beyond me.

I also see sneaking in heavy clunky armor as a challenge.

 

What about we do not destroy the classes we have to create a single class soup.

 

 

[SinisterSlay.6973]

Why not go full broken and allow 2 elite specs? With the first taking priority on conflicting mechanics.

Or allow 4 specs at once with a mastery level? Smash that dps ceiling all to hell. 

[Artyport.2084]

17 minutes ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

And what has all this to do with a thief???

 

Thiefs are quick and mobile characters acting short range.

Sniper rifle was already a stretch

 

How someone is supposed to silently climb a roof in heavy armor is far beyond me.

I also see sneaking in heavy clunky armor as a challenge.

 

What about we do not destroy the classes we have to create a single class soup.

 

 

thats kind of the point. 
But its not destroying its creating class fantasies.

heavy armor thieves are no longer your classic sneaky boys they are agile heavy armor warriors.

 

you can still play your version or playstyle of a thief but you might gain another option with another class. 

[Gregg.3970]

4 hours ago, Redfeather.6401 said:

This process of adding new subclasses can't go on forever without repercussions. A 4th elite spec is just going to compete with existing specs in ways that is not healthy for the game. Control, damage, support. Those are essentially the 3 elite specializations we need per class. Every new elite is going to be compared to whatever elite it's stepping on the toes of and start a petition for better spec balance.

 

Adding something new to core classes will revitalize ALL elite specs and enrich characters as a whole. It is a far more efficient method of progression now that we have a strong base of roles per class. The game should seriously consider now going that route. I'm ready for the 'downvotes'! 

Totally agree. 

Can't imagine it will ever happen but I'd wish 4th Xpac launched with 3 new professions; ( new armour weight class) , 3 new races.  That to me would be a REAL expansion, not what we got with EoD. 

I'm really not interested in a 4th elite spec for the professions we have, it'd just get messy.  Heck giving all 9 professions access to virtually all weapons to me would seriously blur the individuality of current professions even more so than what they are now.  Thief using greatsword?  Warrior using staff? Mesmer using Rifle? Ewwww no thx plz

I think it would be awesome to breathe some fresh blood into character creation.  I even just had to do the math: We seriously only have 5 playable races available after 10 years and all the countless forum requests?  Asura, Sylvari, Human, Norn, Charr, kitten I'm right that's all the playable characters we have?! 🤔

Edited March 30, 2022 by Gregg.3970

[Thornwolf.9721]

New classes are really the way to go... Three new from the ground up professions with no E-specs to speak of who are that expansions revenant would be fine.

[Raap.9065]

I too would rather see them stop either now, or after the next batch of elite specs. Balance is one issue, but another issue less acknowledged is that with so many different specs, it is starting to become difficult in PvP/WvW to remember which class has access to what specs and thus what your opponent is going to bring to the fight.

It would make more sense to instead expand the available skill selections of classes with extra options, as often there are very few meaningful choices in skills for builds.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Raap.9065

[DeanBB.4268]

I'm not opposed to new classes, but don't see the point. If it all boils down to "Control, damage, support" then how is adding a new profession rather than a new elite spec for an existing profession any different? Anet has already shown us they are willing to mix up class mechanics. What do you want in a profession that a new spec wouldn't be able to do?

[Conncept.7638]

Not that I don't want other new things but your argument is as easy to poke holes in as uncooked dough.

There are several classes that, even with three elite specs, don't have all three of those roles, specs that don't even fill those roles in a traditional way, and specs that do fill these roles in traditional ways, leaving room for nontraditional ways of filling them.  And finally and perhaps most important of all, there's no reason those three roles have to be the only three roles forever.  The devs stated at launch that trinity content is medicore game design which they settled for after a pittance of an attempt at designing better high end content, they never aimed for trinity content and do not hold it up as ideal, and there's nothing to say they won't work up the gumption to try for something better someday soon.

Edited March 31, 2022 by Conncept.7638

[Asum.4960]

I disagree. I don't rally care for the roles (at a certain point, when they are mostly covered within a profession). Different playstyles and themes of the same role within a profession are still very much so appealing to me. 

 

In fact, a big issue for me with EoD specs is that they in many cases strictly went for having to cover X role (without much theme or unique gameplay elements), rather than being free to focus on a unique theme and playstyle first, and then slotting it into a role second. 

More Elite Specs, in that way, actually opens them up to be more creative with them, rather than having to worry about providing certain roles.

 

I do agree though that Core needs work, something which imo has to happen to make Elite specs interesting as well going forward. 

Right now the Trait system (for PvE especially) almost entirely revolves around picking up the biggest collection of passive Damage Modifiers and Stat gains - this results in different Elite specs of the same role feeling incredibly samey, as they are played with largely the exact same builds, save for the Elite spec line. 

 

This put's way too much pressure on the few Elite Spec Traits, Utilities and Weapon to differentiate a spec. 

If Traits were less about "do 10% extra strike damage" and "gain 200 condition damage", and more about gameplay defining weapon alterations/transformations, procs and extra effects, different Elite Specs, even though covering the same role, could be set up to synergise with completely different Trait lines, making for a vastly more interesting and distinct gameplay experiences and theming opportunities. 

(which inspired me to make this writeup about Necromancer specifically)

 

That said, imo they should also finish out core skill type sets and (which they already hinted at they will do to some extend) rebalance core Utility skills and Weapons to provide more choices there. 

 

There are still vast opportunities for Elite Specs though.

Edited March 31, 2022 by Asum.4960

[Taclism.2406]

Even better : next expansion, we get to have 500 in jewelry  TWO elite specs at the same time.
I need my necromancer with a gun + torch harbringer scourge (and have access to both shrouds idk)

Edited March 31, 2022 by Taclism.2406

[Ashen.2907]

I wouldn't mind seeing new weapoms rather than new elite specs.

[Tukaram.8256]

I would rather see a new profession than a new e-spec.  EoD would have been a perfect time for a ninja/samurai/something... 😎

[DavyMcB.1603]

The elite specs didn't happen because anet wanted every class to fill some arbitrary fixed "roles". That's your own assumption. They are first and foremost intended as different interpretations of the base classes in lieu of getting actual new classes. These "roles" only serve as additional layers to make these elites also functionally relevant in some capacities. Anet wouldn't care less releasing 4th warrior dps spec if they want to. 

Edited March 31, 2022 by DavyMcB.1603

[zullee.1430]

Then the xpack would just be a glorified living world.  I would imagine new elite specs are a major part of what people look forward to in an expansion.

[ugrakarma.9416]

years later from now... "cryyyyyyy i wann new xpac new elites".

[Hashberry.4510]

Well if they don’t do elite specs we will just get more ridiculous variations on mounts. I’ll always wonder what they would have come up with if they had not blown everything on that crap.

[mindcircus.1506]

11 hours ago, Tachenon.5270 said:

Alternately, maybe some sort of wild and crazy GW1 type of dual-professing. Dual-professionalism?

The elite spec system already expresses main/class subclass.
Class        +     Subclass    =    Name
Engineer  +     Warrior     =    Scrapper
Guardian +    Thief           =    Willbender
Ranger     +     Warrior     =    Untamed
Warrior    +    Engineer    =    Bladesworn
Rev           +    Guardian   =    Herald
ect...
You will find the above is true for all elite specs in that they are an attempt to bring one class' play style to another class without the balance nightmare that was GW1.
 

12 hours ago, Redfeather.6401 said:

This process of adding new subclasses can't go on forever without repercussions. A 4th elite spec is just going to compete with existing specs in ways that is not healthy for the game. Control, damage, support. Those are essentially the 3 elite specializations we need per class. Every new elite is going to be compared to whatever elite it's stepping on the toes of and start a petition for better spec balance.

Is Tempest a support Spec?
It can be played viably for Condi Damage. It can be played for Control via Shocking Aura Share, it can be played for pure support.
Is Firebrand a Support Spec?
Because it can easily be played for 100% condi DPS in addition to Healbrand.
is Vindicator a Damage spec?
Because there's a whole trait line and second legend devoted to group support in addition to it's strong damage dealing capabilities.
Is Scrapper Power DPS, or support?
Because as far as I can see the Power DPS provides massive control but the elite can also be built as full support.

The fact is that elite specs do not, as you are claiming, represent only one aspect of your list. Some, like Daredevil are very weighted to one of the three options you have presented. Others like Specter can be played for multiple roles such as Condi DPS or Support.
Given my response to the other poster above, it seems to me that we actually have the design space for 6 more elite specs per class.

[mindcircus.1506]

2 hours ago, DavyMcB.1603 said:

The elite specs didn't happen because anet wanted every class to fill some arbitrary fixed "roles". That's your own assumption. They are first and foremost intended as different interpretations of the base classes in lieu of getting actual new classes. These "roles" only serve as additional layers to make these elites also functionally relevant in some capacities. Anet wouldn't care less releasing 4th warrior dps spec if they want to. 

This is the correct response.