We just not going to talk about how the last patch made willbender a god?

[Buran.3796]

19 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I think guardian as a whole benefited greatly from the (poorly executed) change of retaliation to resolution. Nearly permanent -33% condi damage is nuts by itself, and now it can grant +40% crit chance too when traited? That's absurd power creep. WB is just better able to capitalize on this dynamic. 

   Condi damage has very low presence in conformed PvP, so is not like WB profits too much for that feature. In my experience WB hits hard but has sustain issues; the mobility skills are extremely heterogeneus in terms of reach and castings, a lot of them with stops, or rooting animations at the end or the begining, etc.

[anjo.6143]

On 4/8/2022 at 12:29 PM, Kuma.1503 said:

I can hit 83% crit chance on my valk Willbender which is pretty cool. 

I haven't tested the build enough to call it broken or not.

Good or not, this is so bizarre and stupid 

[greedywholesome.9081]

27 minutes ago, anjo.6143 said:

Good or not, this is so bizarre and stupid 

 

Yeah most of it comes from the grandmaster trait and the minor before that. The default 40% extra crit from that trait only lasts a few seconds before the guard uses the elite and resets the virtues - thankfully, the attacks are blockable. This guard build is also very squishy and relies heavily on landing the attacks. Their shadow step virtue and physical skills are a bit wonky and predictable. 

 

When I'm on thief, this is the only guard spec I won't feel I wasted my time on engaging. 

 

WB also has a higher learning curve than core support and DH

[otto.5684]

On 4/9/2022 at 4:29 PM, Morwath.9817 said:

 

Thats not true. Before Quickness shout wasn't overnerfed into oblivion, Support Guards ran it over RF. Mantra of Liberation was used on FB right post PoF release and is still used over RF in WvWvW.

The mantra was the meta for FB before Feb 2020. Sadly, as of right now, in spvp, RF is the only viable option.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

7 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Condi damage has very low presence in conformed PvP, so is not like WB profits too much for that feature. In my experience WB hits hard but has sustain issues; the mobility skills are extremely heterogeneus in terms of reach and castings, a lot of them with stops, or rooting animations at the end or the begining, etc.

I'm not sure that's true.  There are a lot of things that are condi, or at least hybrid.  Core Necro, harbinger, Fire Weaver/some ele builds, some ranger builds, some mechanist builds, many mesmer builds, etc....

 

But even if there was NO condi being played, that doesn't excuse a blatantly overpowered dynamic.  In fact, it would be fair to wonder whether there would be more viability for condi builds if  *cough*  certain professions didn't have access to permanent resolution.  

 

Imagine something running around with perma protection or resistance or stability.  That would clearly be broken as well.  The fact that guardian is capable of having perma resolution WITH high access to prot, resistance, stab, blinds, aegis, etc, is pretty broken.  And it's not like they don't have ample access to condi cleanse, either....

[grx.8714]

I don't want willbender to have the same fate of firebrand. 

I was enjoying a lot to play firebrand as solo roamer in wvw or with burts builds in pvp, but because the support was overclocker they nerfed it to the ground (and it was needed dont get me wrong). 

But now from what I am seeing people already crying about willbender, I don't want the F virtues to have a 2 minutes cooldown. Yeah they start with 10 seconds more cds, then another 25, and finally they just go over 1 minute cd, and it's stupid.

The f3 on 25 seconds cd is busted, but just rework it so it doesn't give stab to allies anymore when traited, but resistance to allies and stab for you, willbender is not a support spec and shouldn't be even if it has a healing power trait to spec into it, it makes no sense, it's a roamer damage dealer, not a healer. 

Just please don't gut things to the ground like you always do.

[Math.5123]

3 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I'm not sure that's true.  There are a lot of things that are condi, or at least hybrid.  Core Necro, harbinger, Fire Weaver/some ele builds, some ranger builds, some mechanist builds, many mesmer builds, etc....

 

But even if there was NO condi being played, that doesn't excuse a blatantly overpowered dynamic.  In fact, it would be fair to wonder whether there would be more viability for condi builds if  *cough*  certain professions didn't have access to permanent resolution.  

 

Imagine something running around with perma protection or resistance or stability.  That would clearly be broken as well.  The fact that guardian is capable of having perma resolution WITH high access to prot, resistance, stab, blinds, aegis, etc, is pretty broken.  And it's not like they don't have ample access to condi cleanse, either....

What are these "high access" to prot, stab, blinds, aegis and "etc"?

Support guard has decent access to stab and prot through virtues grandmaster and shield and potentially Mace. In which case it has zero access to blind. 

Dh, dps guard and willbender only have stab on f3, in willbenders case you don't run shield so prot is extremely limited. 

Only support has access to a lot of on demand aegis, through advance. Dh and core only has it on f3 active and maybe shield if they run it. 

 

Only willbender has access to resistance (I'm not even going to name firebrand here). And it's 1.5 second every time you shadowstep, if you even trait for it.

 

So please, show me this magical build that has "high access" to all the above. 

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

11 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

What are these "high access" to prot, stab, blinds, aegis and "etc"?

Support guard has decent access to stab and prot through virtues grandmaster and shield and potentially Mace. In which case it has zero access to blind. 

Dh, dps guard and willbender only have stab on f3, in willbenders case you don't run shield so prot is extremely limited. 

Only support has access to a lot of on demand aegis, through advance. Dh and core only has it on f3 active and maybe shield if they run it. 

 

Only willbender has access to resistance (I'm not even going to name firebrand here). And it's 1.5 second every time you shadowstep, if you even trait for it.

 

So please, show me this magical build that has "high access" to all the above. 

I'm not going to debate the definition of "high access" with you. The point is that guard has Perma resolution (which is broken by itself) while also having access to many other powerful boons. 

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

15 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I'm not going to debate the definition of "high access" with you. The point is that guard has Perma resolution (which is broken by itself) while also having access to many other powerful boons. 

Every class has something unique that other specs can't match.

 

Thief has the highest mobility and stealth uptime in the game. Broken spec, pls nerf

Rev has 2 full utility bars while everyone else has only 1. Broken spec, pls nerf

Mes can dodge while channeling any skill of their choice. Broken spec, pls nerf

Ele has a monopoly on auras, and 20 weapon skills instead of 10. Broken spec, pls nerf

Engi has a monopoly on superspeed, and kits that add 5 weapon skills each. Broken spec, pls nerf

Warr has the most CC access in the game. Broken spec, pls nerf

Ranger has pet skills hitting for 7k. Broken spec, pls nerf

Necro has 3x the health pool of everyone else, on top of 50% dmg reduction. Broken spec, pls nerf

Edited April 11, 2022 by Hogwarts Zebra.8597

[Despot.3048]

4 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I'm not going to debate the definition of "high access" with you. The point is that guard has Perma resolution (which is broken by itself) while also having access to many other powerful boons. 

Ah. The last refuge of someone with no leg to stand on. "I'm not going to debate"

[Math.5123]

7 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I'm not going to debate the definition of "high access" with you. The point is that guard has Perma resolution (which is broken by itself) while also having access to many other powerful boons. 

Regardless wether you want to debate the definition or not. I do think we can both agree that zero does not equal "high access".

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

4 hours ago, Despot.3048 said:

Ah. The last refuge of someone with no leg to stand on. "I'm not going to debate"

No point in debating a subjective description, my dude.

 

You say the soup's too hot; I say it's too cold.

You say the music's too loud; I say it's too quiet

You say guard's access to boons is moderate (or w/e word you want); I say it's high.

 

You're allowed to have your opinion, and I'm allowed to have mine.

 

The point I was making was primarily about resolution, not the other boons, anyway. I didn't want to get off into the weeds arguing about something else.

[Math.5123]

2 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

No point in debating a subjective description, my dude.

 

You say the soup's too hot; I say it's too cold.

You say the music's too loud; I say it's too quiet

You say guard's access to boons is moderate (or w/e word you want); I say it's high.

 

You're allowed to have your opinion, and I'm allowed to have mine.

 

The point I was making was primarily about resolution, not the other boons, anyway. I didn't want to get off into the weeds arguing about something else.

They only have high resolution uptime when traiting into radiance though. Something support guard doesn't. So if you think power guard is too tanky because of the resolution, try equipping a boon rip sigil to instantly rip the long lasting resolution they get after healing. That's about half the resolution they have access too.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

I'm  gonna camp on this hill here and say even with the blinds ruining my day, I've had more fun fighting willbenders as warrior than I have any other guardian denomination to date, and if the guardian mains find the buffs make the class effective then good. 

More of that high octane aggressive in your face class archetype please. 

Also yall cant complain about thieves anymore,  now you're a thief with blocks instead of stealth. 

Edited April 12, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Morwath.9817]

12 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

No point in debating a subjective description, my dude.

 

You say the soup's too hot; I say it's too cold.

You say the music's too loud; I say it's too quiet

You say guard's access to boons is moderate (or w/e word you want); I say it's high.

 

You're allowed to have your opinion, and I'm allowed to have mine.

 

The point I was making was primarily about resolution, not the other boons, anyway. I didn't want to get off into the weeds arguing about something else.

 

No. Boon duration can be easily measured by comparing it to boon duration of other builds. It's not matter of tastes.

[Nimbus Nomad.1237]

Who ever says willbender is weak is just a guardian player trying to spread propaganda. 

Edited April 15, 2022 by Nimbus Nomad.1237

[CutesySylveon.8290]

On 4/12/2022 at 12:41 PM, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I'm  gonna camp on this hill here and say even with the blinds ruining my day, I've had more fun fighting willbenders as warrior than I have any other guardian denomination to date, and if the guardian mains find the buffs make the class effective then good. 

More of that high octane aggressive in your face class archetype please. 

Also yall cant complain about thieves anymore,  now you're a thief with blocks instead of stealth. 

Trapper DH isn't fun to fight? Shame.

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

Here is Naru's tier list for everyone saying willbender is bad 

 

[myun.6395]

It's happened guys.

Willbender is currently a better pick over shiro herald.

Will see for sure play in the next monthly at for sure fitting the herald role.

Not my words, but top players streamers ones.

I don't know if the buffs made it actually too broken or overtuned, but definitely it is on stereoids now 

[CutesySylveon.8290]

49 minutes ago, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said:

Here is Naru's tier list for everyone saying willbender is bad 

 

Wait, how is zerker and core warrior on a better tier than Spellbreaker? And DH is that high? 

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

1 hour ago, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said:

Here is Naru's tier list for everyone saying willbender is bad 

 

Hahahaha imagine thinking Virtuoso is that good in ranked. Not even close.

[Sahne.6950]

On 4/16/2022 at 8:36 AM, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

Wait, how is zerker and core warrior on a better tier than Spellbreaker? And DH is that high? 

Just compare where Deadeye is and where Weaver/CoreValkyrieRanger is.... The guy creating this tierlist is 100% stuck in silver. xD

[viquing.8254]

On 4/11/2022 at 9:32 PM, Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

Mes can dodge while channeling any skill of their choice. Broken spec, pls nerf

Just to say : when you have 3 in 1 skills, you don't need to cover your skills by burning temporisation on it. I'm looking at you meta classes since 2 years +.

 

[Terrorhuz.4695]

On 4/16/2022 at 8:57 AM, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

Hahahaha imagine thinking Virtuoso is that good in ranked. Not even close.

> virtuoso b tier

I've said it in the past and I'll repeat it now, not releasing any mesmer elite spec would have been insulting, but not nearly as much insulting as releasing Virtuoso.

Edited April 19, 2022 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Telgum.6071]

By the way, what's with this trend about naming posts and threads with titles such "Can we talk about..." or "Aren't we just going to talk about...?".