Profession Balance: Next Steps and Preview of June 30 Balance Update

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

11 minutes ago, Pati.2438 said:

@XenoSpyro.1780 we know that there is signet of fury how ever need to use it means a direct dps lost.

He was meaning the signet of ferocity buff from signet mastery, which is a non starter as all stacks disappear when you mount.

[Jthug.9506]

1 hour ago, Josh Davis.7865 said:

…power warrior builds don’t typically incorporate the Arms trait line, meaning that warriors were not fairly compensated for the Fury change. After the July 19 update, the grandmaster minor trait Pinnacle of Strength in the Strength line will provide a baseline +5% increased critical chance, in addition to its other effects. Furious Burst will also keep its increased critical chance while under the effects of Fury.

Would you then by that logic consider giving 5% to crit to rev’s retribution line, and other secondary lines that potentially loose out in power builds that don’t incorporate the sole crit trait on other classes?

[Semifact.2719]

I appreciate the quick response. Its better than waiting 3 months

[Whiskers.7346]

2 hours ago, Josh Davis.7865 said:

Hi all,

In the original post of this thread we mentioned that we'd be looking at addressing the placement of the warrior's crit trait in the July 19 release. Here's a quick update.

In the June 28 release, we updated the Furious Burst trait in the Arms line to include +5% critical chance while under the effects of Fury. However, power warrior builds don’t typically incorporate the Arms trait line, meaning that warriors were not fairly compensated for the Fury change. After the July 19 update, the grandmaster minor trait Pinnacle of Strength in the Strength line will provide a baseline +5% increased critical chance, in addition to its other effects. Furious Burst will also keep its increased critical chance while under the effects of Fury.

If you're being introduced to this thread for the first time with post, please make sure to check out the original post for a breakdown of our next steps regarding the June 28 balance update.

Thank you!

Josh

I'll buy $20 in Gems if you're able tell us how this trait ended up in Arms in the first place...

[Convet.2605]

1 hour ago, Kamirose.4986 said:

Thank you for the updates!

 

Is there any update to the fact that Guardian is the only class that entirely lacks any 5% crit chance trait? It was promised that all classes would get it, iirc, and power Dragonhunter and power Willbender are in exceptionally bad places right now, and not having the trait hurts them even more.

I think it was promised that "many classes". I may be wrong, but if it says many, don't read now into it. Learnt over past 10 years to always take what AN say on face value

[Ashen.2907]

Thank you for the update.

[Convet.2605]

2 hours ago, Div.5632 said:

Thanks for the updates Josh! I do however think it's also worth mentioning that Warriors are still under compensated for what they had pre-patch. Before, because of the Double Standards trait, Warriors would get +150 precision from themselves, and then also relied on spotter (additional +100 precision) to reach their crit cap. While the additional +5% helps them get more of the way there, they're still missing about 2.5% critical chance compared to what other professions received as compensation. Is this going to be looked into in future patches?

Warrior didn't rely on spotter about a month before the update. At the moment I am running warrior with 75% crit chance without fury and fury puts me to 100%. It's perfectly fine without a +5%

[Astralporing.1957]

46 minutes ago, Convet.2605 said:

Warrior didn't rely on spotter about a month before the update. At the moment I am running warrior with 75% crit chance without fury and fury puts me to 100%. It's perfectly fine without a +5%

Out of curiosity, how many assassin pieces do you use? Any precision on runes?

[Maulclaw.4365]

Please revert Banners to the way they were before. I really don't wanna stop using the build I've stuck to since 2016.

[Radina.6057]

I wonder when Harbinger will enter the "needs a makeover" que. 

 

He has a Boon, Condi, and DPS/Burst line. Noone asked for that DPS line, but we still got it. Its unplayable in PVE content. Har also still suffers from the elixir bug. Regualarly the Elixir Stacks will not apply to the Harbinger when tossing them into the boss while standing inside the hitbox. Makes it quite hard to believe someone cares about that spec, if his core mechanic is broken like that from day 1.

 

Whats fantastic about this story is that Harbingers DPS line is still worse than Reaper somehow. A spec that is dead to PVE since before PoF was birthed.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Radina.6057

[PurpleBakery.4589]

@Josh Davis.7865

 

Frist off, thank you for not putting the 5% in Discipline. It's already bloated enough imo.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

2nd If you're actually intent on fixing idiotic warrior things that don't make sense:

 

- [Furious Burst] Does not correctly give Bladesworns fury on burst skill use. It only sometimes* gives it after dis-engaging Dragon Trigger (This is easiest to see when [Daring Dragon] is equipped.)

 

- Similar to [Executioner's Scythe] and [Holographic Shockwave], [Head Butt] and [Wild Blow] Have damage modifiers (i.e. Consume STABILITY to do bonus damage or automatically crit, that make no sense because they are hard CC skills.) Please, please, PLEASE Do something about this for sPvP and WvW.

 

 Thank you. <3

[Angesombre.4630]

The way the quickness has been imported on the revenant (I will speak mainly on this class) and surely the elem are not top. 

Because if we compare with the harbinger already it has almost no worries gave the quickness with the shroud with 3s for an interval of 3s, it has an elixir for the throw 4s which also makes damages and the elite during 5s, good there is also the scrapper which has a facility for the given via the drone. The scrapper gives also supervitesse, of the fufu, protection finally voila and even by attacking. 

So to get back to the revenant, this is done in a terrible way we have to sacrifice permanent buffs that consume energy with average buffs currently, to use quickness we have to use the Herald skills, in addition to that it does not give enough and all this on a class that has a very low DPS. I would have seen more defensive buffs added on a support class that has the shield as a weapon and put quickness on the vindicator that already has it but could have shared it that would have given it an extra utility (I won't talk about all the flaws of the vindicator). This is just my opinion.

[Dreggon.6598]

 

6 hours ago, Josh Davis.7865 said:

Hi all,

In the original post of this thread we mentioned that we'd be looking at addressing the placement of the warrior's crit trait in the July 19 release. Here's a quick update.

In the June 28 release, we updated the Furious Burst trait in the Arms line to include +5% critical chance while under the effects of Fury. However, power warrior builds don’t typically incorporate the Arms trait line, meaning that warriors were not fairly compensated for the Fury change. After the July 19 update, the grandmaster minor trait Pinnacle of Strength in the Strength line will provide a baseline +5% increased critical chance, in addition to its other effects. Furious Burst will also keep its increased critical chance while under the effects of Fury.

If you're being introduced to this thread for the first time with post, please make sure to check out the original post for a breakdown of our next steps regarding the June 28 balance update.

Thank you!

Josh

 

If critical chance exceeding 100% got converted to critical damage this might not even be an issue.

 

That trait that gives 100% critical hit chance to your burst skills? The excess would go to crit damage, and you might see power warriors taking the arms line - and possibly even going core warrior to fit it in.

 

Would feel a lot less bad about hitting the crit cap for every class. I know Renegade can do it trivially.

[Kain Francois.4328]

5 hours ago, Hazell.2065 said:

Can you do something about warrior viability in strikes CM? It's really hard for warrior to keep DPS uptime in strikes cm because most of our skills are melee. Please just rework our rifle like engineer. Warrior rifle is probably one of the worst weapon in the game and because of that power warrior have no ranged DPS option. Power berserker ( full melee) also doing less damage than power mechanist( fully ranged, half of the damage comes from mech, easy rotation, has 1200 range teleport and tons of cc).This is not a good balance. Power berserker should be doing at least 3k more damage than power mechanist to compensate the lack of range and utilities. Please look at GW2wingman and buff every espec who has less than 2% percent play rate like weaver, berserker, deadeye, reaper, vindicator etc. Is it so hard to make other DPS classes as good as power mech? 

Old rotation for Bladesworn still works

 

And balancing for GW2Wingman is a terrible idea.

Super Smash Bros example: Fox is hardly the most played character in Melee, yet it's universally agreed he is top tier. If you buffed Fox just because people don't play him, that would be a dumb idea because he's already OP.

Here's a GW2 example: Healing Scourge and Firebrand were hardly played for YEARS since Path of Fire came out. I can prove this with Reddit threads and old posts mocking Firebrand in particular, if you'd like. Yet we know today they are OP, and now they define the meta.

You are also dealing with the bias itself of Gw2Wingman because only accounts connected to that API are actually recorded.

With that said, sometimes a spec isn't underpowered just because it isn't played. Want proof? Warrior numbers dropped, despite Condi Berserker benchmarking 35k dps and Power Bladesworn benchmarking 40-52k dps. Numbers are down due to player morale, not a lack of capabilities.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Kain Francois.4328

[firedragon.8953]

Thanks for the update.
It's a start. 😅

[blambidy.3216]

9 hours ago, Josh Davis.7865 said:

Hi all,

In the original post of this thread we mentioned that we'd be looking at addressing the placement of the warrior's crit trait in the July 19 release. Here's a quick update.

In the June 28 release, we updated the Furious Burst trait in the Arms line to include +5% critical chance while under the effects of Fury. However, power warrior builds don’t typically incorporate the Arms trait line, meaning that warriors were not fairly compensated for the Fury change. After the July 19 update, the grandmaster minor trait Pinnacle of Strength in the Strength line will provide a baseline +5% increased critical chance, in addition to its other effects. Furious Burst will also keep its increased critical chance while under the effects of Fury.

If you're being introduced to this thread for the first time with post, please make sure to check out the original post for a breakdown of our next steps regarding the June 28 balance update.

Thank you!

Josh

As much as this is a better change. This won’t fix the attention of making warrior back into the mix of using it as a quickness source. Or that it still won’t be used by most groups within the raid, and strike community. It uses warhorn which no one will use it as a build and requires numerous amount of boon duration. What could change it is banner could work like spirits uptime. Druid spirits uptime is very easy to upkeep. Warrior banners could pulses quickness per interval depending on how many banners and how much potency it will give out each pulse could justify bringing warrior back in the mix as quickness. 
 

another thing is the fact that since a lot of supports can already give might + quickness/ alac at the same time. You could rotate a couple traits around in the tactic traitline. Phalanx strength trait being grandmaster and And martial cadence master grandmaster should be separated trait masters. Ether martial cadence be major grandmaster and then phalanx strength master grandmaster. That way you can run both. Give might + quickness. While most raid/strike squads warriors will run axe/axe. You can upkeep as long as you have the banner pulse quickness every interval it would be more realistic to the community. 
 

I am only saying this because mech alac can give 25 might + alac. Druid can give 25 might + alac. Healbrand can give 25 might + quickness. tempest can give 25 might + alac. It should only be fair for warriors to do the same. 

[shinkamalei.2574]

I do appreciate the extra second in tempest overload, but it doesn't address one of the big issues of it only happening at the end as well as it directly competing with a heal trait. This should be aligned so it allows for either dps or healing. I still believe combining it with unstable conduit would be a better idea since the other trait made these extreme bursty classes that rely on immobilizing in pvp a bit negated. Not useless as they still hurt, but it helps get out of shite situations. It's selfish, but nice.

The main issue with only getting alac at the end could be fixed by pulsing alacrity (xyz amount per second) then at the end of the overload (rewarding a full overload while not negating the entirety of the overload) giving another burst at the tim e the auras would be applied. It shouldn't be more than half of the entirety of the alacrity given but it would be nice to give SOMETHING. there are times in pve when you HAVE to dodge and you then lose out on 10+ seconds of alacrity. Let alone pvp where dodging it part of how you play.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

4 hours ago, Kain Francois.4328 said:

Old rotation for Bladesworn still works

 

And balancing for GW2Wingman is a terrible idea.

Super Smash Bros example: Fox is hardly the most played character in Melee, yet it's universally agreed he is top tier. If you buffed Fox just because people don't play him, that would be a dumb idea because he's already OP.

Here's a GW2 example: Healing Scourge and Firebrand were hardly played for YEARS since Path of Fire came out. I can prove this with Reddit threads and old posts mocking Firebrand in particular, if you'd like. Yet we know today they are OP, and now they define the meta.

You are also dealing with the bias itself of Gw2Wingman because only accounts connected to that API are actually recorded.

With that said, sometimes a spec isn't underpowered just because it isn't played. Want proof? Warrior numbers dropped, despite Condi Berserker benchmarking 35k dps and Power Bladesworn benchmarking 40-52k dps. Numbers are down due to player morale, not a lack of capabilities.

Ohh cool. Condi Berserker. A Build thats only dps and has to be melee in order to use the skills that increase Berserker uptime.

Whats that? The boss has a mechanic that makes you move away from the boss? Have fun with not doing anything for some time after you dropped out of Berserker.

 

Ohh cool. Bladesworn does a bazillion dps.  To bad that this build is extremly unfun to play.

Yay for being rooted. Yay for loosing all your dps because you had to dodge.

 

Warriors big problem is that all the builds come with such a mountain of downsides. While other dont have to deal with that.

Edited July 13, 2022 by DanAlcedo.3281

[miles.5961]

2 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Ohh cool. Condi Berserker. A Build thats only dps and has to be melee in order to use the skills that increase Berserker uptime.

Whats that? The boss has a mechanic that makes you move away from the boss? Have fun with not doing anything for some time after you dropped out of Berserker.

 

Ohh cool. Bladesworn does a bazillion dps.  To bad that this build is extremly unfun to play.

Yay for being rooted. Yay for loosing all your dps because you had to dodge.

 

Warriors big problem is that all the builds come with such a mountain of downsides. While other dont have to deal with that.

Sounds like a skill issue.

[GoguSpatzialu.7948]

12 hours ago, mirage.8046 said:

What would be a fair compensation is putting those stat buffs into minor traits for core traitlines, so like strength would grant +100 power, and discipline'd grant +100 precision and ferocity, and the list goes on. the extra +5% is appreciated but a lil' more would make up for what warrior lost. 

This is a pretty bad idea, for a very simple reason. One of the main reasons you don't see build diversity with warrior is precisely because Strength and Discipline are must haves, leaving no real room for an alternative spec (unless you go core). It would be a bandaid for the larger problem, and probably result in just pushing a much needed rework even farther into the future.

[Nasbit.3240]

7 hours ago, Kain Francois.4328 said:

You are also dealing with the bias itself of Gw2Wingman because only accounts connected to that API are actually recorded.

You're part of Wingmans statistics in that moment you are part of the raid/strike/fractal group of ANY wingman-contributor. You dont have to connect your account to anything to be part of wingmans statistics.

If you raid in lfg (or raid in general), there could be logs including you on wingman already.

[Katary.7096]

15 hours ago, Josh Davis.7865 said:

Hi all,

In the original post of this thread we mentioned that we'd be looking at addressing the placement of the warrior's crit trait in the July 19 release. Here's a quick update.

In the June 28 release, we updated the Furious Burst trait in the Arms line to include +5% critical chance while under the effects of Fury. However, power warrior builds don’t typically incorporate the Arms trait line, meaning that warriors were not fairly compensated for the Fury change. After the July 19 update, the grandmaster minor trait Pinnacle of Strength in the Strength line will provide a baseline +5% increased critical chance, in addition to its other effects. Furious Burst will also keep its increased critical chance while under the effects of Fury.

If you're being introduced to this thread for the first time with post, please make sure to check out the original post for a breakdown of our next steps regarding the June 28 balance update.

Thank you!

Josh

If you can manage to turn those +5% into +7% before Tuesday then Warrior builds would basically be back to the same critical hit chance they used to have before the June 28th update, which seems to be the pattern established by most other professions and we can finally close the book on the "crit chance bonus is in Arms"-topic.
And I appreciate that Arms gets to keep the bonus on Furious Burst, since Warrior builds typically do not choose Strength and Arms at the same time.

[Kozumi.5816]

Why did removing 1 enum from a table and readding it to another require  this much time?

How did this even go live in the first place?

[Kayberz.5346]

4 hours ago, miles.5961 said:

Sounds like a skill issue.

Exactly 

 

These bladesworn haters are extremely hyperbolic about how "bad" bladesworn is

 

They simply dont WANT to learn to play it correctly, it has nothing to do with how it actually performs objectively.

 

99% of the mechanics they complain about making them "lose all their damage cuz dodge qq" can be trivialized with aegis and flickerstep, or simply using dragontrigger 2/3 instead of 1 in that 1 instance, and with how much dps bladesworn does it will STILL out dps berserker(and many current metadps classes) even with small interruptions in its optimal rotation as long as you actually think about what you're doing and aren't a berserker-only monkey that relies purely on muscle memory rotations while shutting your brain off to whats going on.

 

"Its unfun" is an entirely subjective thing, i could say that about ANY build in the game, its not a legitimate argument about how the spec performs in endgame content. Thats a "you" problem, not a bladesworn problem. 

 

Edited July 13, 2022 by Kayberz.5346

[Kozumi.5816]

10 hours ago, Angesombre.4630 said:

The way the quickness has been imported on the revenant (I will speak mainly on this class) and surely the elem are not top. 

Because if we compare with the harbinger already it has almost no worries gave the quickness with the shroud with 3s for an interval of 3s, it has an elixir for the throw 4s which also makes damages and the elite during 5s, good there is also the scrapper which has a facility for the given via the drone. The scrapper gives also supervitesse, of the fufu, protection finally voila and even by attacking. 

So to get back to the revenant, this is done in a terrible way we have to sacrifice permanent buffs that consume energy with average buffs currently, to use quickness we have to use the Herald skills, in addition to that it does not give enough and all this on a class that has a very low DPS. I would have seen more defensive buffs added on a support class that has the shield as a weapon and put quickness on the vindicator that already has it but could have shared it that would have given it an extra utility (I won't talk about all the flaws of the vindicator). This is just my opinion.

Yes, some specs passively give out quickness/alac for free while others have to work hard for it. The specs that passively give it out are the ones that everyone plays.