Plz Arenanet, remove hidden Commander in WvW

[aiinseinn.5914]

too many ppl feeling not as a part of the game and his action .. "flame on"

[Gibson.4036]

I understand why people run with a hidden commander.

I also know it doesn’t make for a WvW that is welcoming to new players.

[Galmac.4680]

Hidden tags makes sense for small groups, like roamer that want to mark places or enemies, but don't want a whole squad following. If you don't want it, don't use it.

[Sobx.1758]

No reason to remove them.

[Chips.7968]

Imagine if you have one open commander, and 3 roaming grps, and a guild grp.... but no hidden tags.

Nothing warmer welcoming than an entire group telling you to kitten off.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Chips.7968

[Gibson.4036]

1 hour ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I understand why people run with a hidden commander.

I also know it doesn’t make for a WvW that is welcoming to new players.

Just my experience as someone who played some WvW in the first years of the game, and came back in recent years and introduced someone to WvW.

With the prevalence of private tags, there are times where the game seems empty, even though there are in fact groups running around doing stuff.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[Chichimec.9364]

Please Anet, don't remove hidden Commanders from WvW. Let people play the way they want to play, with those they want to play with. I've run with both hidden tags and open tags and think it should be up to a commander and their core squad to decide what kind of group they want to run and who they want to run with.

[Vayne.8563]

I use the hidden tag to run a small casual guild group, when we're all in voice, while there's a commander already on the map. Seems to me this is a better alternative than tagging and having more tags, when my group isn't looking for anyone not in my guild.

[Danikat.8537]

Removing hidden tags wouldn't actually give you more groups to join, those groups aren't going to start accepting more people just becasue you can see the tag. Before it was possible to hide tags some of them wouldn't use one and would coordinate in other ways so no one could see they were a group and others would use the tag but closed to invites and would tell anyone who wasn't in the squad but trying to follow to leave. Hiding the tag largely just removes the confusion.

[patton the great.7126]

Stand on your own 2 feet. WAGE hit and run tactics. Pick off zergling loot bags. Crush the enemy roamers, man the siege. 

 

You do not need to follow some hidden auctioneer to inflict damage on the enemy. Be relentless, make the enemy regret your servers roaming power. 

 

Or you could....join a wvw guild and get in on the auctioneer mayhem

[AgentMoore.9453]

Really not liking the assumption that commanders are obligated to play with you just because they're commanders. People who want to lead maps with a public squad can already do so, and forcing all tags back into visibility won't change the kind of people running them. If anything, this would probably just spawn a bunch of vitriol from people demanding entry into squads that don't want them or from other tags who feel they deserve to be in sole control of a map which is exactly what we had before the private tag option was implemented.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Some people just make squads for the features in very small groups. It's just superior to a party and doesn't meant they want to lead a whole map just because the party can't hold more than 5 people. Also, I make a squad because I don't want to get spam invited by tags.

Though recently I forgot to hide the tag and was wondering why everyone was following me and my friend xD

Edited July 10, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[Super Hayes.6890]

I run WvW with my 9 and 7 year old. We should remain hidden lol.

[Labjax.2465]

Hidden commander means nothing to me because they are essentially invisible (with one exception). What does bother me as a pug is when there is a huge squad that is visible, but they are private or picky and invite only to the point that not only is it hard to even get into whatever borderlands they're in, you can't even work with them because they want to play exclusively their meta way. IME, this is also the kind of group that ignores objectives and lets us fail while they seek out Big Battles (TM).

The one exception with hidden commander is if they were a huge squad and were invisible, both clogging queues and making it hard to understand why at the same time.

BUT... I understand people enjoy WvW for different reasons and some of those guilds may be a significant part of remaining interest in WvW, so...

[Custodio.6134]

i can understand the issues with hidden tags in WvW. 

It makes it difficult to judge if theres space on the map for a big group/blob to port onto, 

it makes the map seem empty, even though there are people playing (which can discourage players joining the map)

 

But there are reasons why we have, and sometimes are indirectly forced to use hidden tags. 

1. people just sometimes want to stay private, even small groups. but having a commander tag allows usage of markers and symbols
2. especially guilds don´t want to get disturbed while raiding for mutliple reasons. any random player can mess up stealth-blasts (just by standing too close, or having a mini out), reveal their position early, they can´t react to calls (because they´re not allowed  join their voice) and very often die on first engage, rallying enemies (which often turns an otherwise even fight into a loss)
3. multiple guilds raiding at the same time, which would force every guild to use a different type of tag. Yes, we have a nice selection of tags, BUT: only a few of them are actually good in terms of visibility. And effectively, we can only use  half of them, because commander- and catmander-tag of the same color are also at risk of getting confused, if both are present in a fight

These points especially apply to closed guild squads, but sometimes gets extended to "semi-public"-squads as well. The reason is usually the competetiveness of the commander. WvW is (by default) a competetive game-mode (and yes, it fits the definition of "competetive gaming" almost perfectly), and commanders usually want to maximize effectiveness in every way possible. This begins in setting up a squad with "meta"-classes, organizing subgroups, using voice-channels, and leads to voice-only and hidden squads in order to minimize random, uncontrollable factors (in this case, people mindlessly running behind a visible tag). 

 

 

[Gibson.4036]

FWIW, my posts were not intended to support removing hidden tags. Just observing that there are consequences to how common they seem to be now, and how relatively uncommon public tags are compared to the past.

I know there are a variety of reasons for this. Those reasons are the real issues.

[Xenesis.6389]

The problem isn't the hidden tags, cause you can still run a full squad with no tag and use squad or target markers on commanders like the old days.

The problem is there are less players willing to tag up, for a multitude of reasons, think about what they are and ask or offer solutions for it. 

These days I mostly see guilds running tags on because of how combat has evolved into boon balling blobs, you need as much pugs as you can get to fight some of these map queue groups. Then those guilds take a night or two middle of the week to run private when matches have been settled and groups are just looking for even sized fights.

Commanders are under no obligation to run a map for a pug, other than their guild, players need to start figuring out wvw, look at the map and figure out what's going on, there's a reason for orange and white swords, for RI's, for sentries, tier0-3 symbols, scout calls, start using the information yourself, and stop relying on a tag to lead you to it.

[enkidu.5937]

plz make tags invisible for team members but visible for enemies

so we can find fights faster

we don’t want to play with our teammates, cause they don’t play the way we want to play

and that makes them noobs

we don’t want to play with noobs, we want to fight noobs and kill them in easy mode

cause that makes us l33t 🤪

[Telgum.6071]

21 hours ago, aiinseinn.5914 said:

too many ppl feeling not as a part of the game and his action .. "flame on"

What if I don't want rallybots following or players interrupting fights?

[SFShinigami.1572]

I know why this topic was made, but there are reasons to have them without the selfish reasons that people hate.  I usually take over for someone when they leave, but sometimes he stays up late.  When that happens my little group of friends and I make our own squad because there is often more than 5 of us.  We usually work in conjunction with main group.

 

Not all hidden squads are completely ambivalent to everyone else on map.

[Xenesis.6389]

56 minutes ago, enkidu.5937 said:

plz make tags invisible for team members but visible for enemies

so we can find fights faster

we don’t want to play with our teammates, cause they don’t play the way we want to play

and that makes them noobs

we don’t want to play with noobs, we want to fight noobs and kill them in easy mode

cause that makes us l33t 🤪

 

They should make a t3 uav tactivator for keeps to reveal every single person on the map to everyone else for 10sec.

Would be funny to see the red dots chasing red dots all over the map.

[Chaba.5410]

Be the commander tag you want to see.

[Dralor.3701]

Guilds should be able to run private tags if they pay for it. Just make a mentor track or something with WvW rank/points where anyone who wants to pugmand can tag.

[Forgotten Legend.9281]

and there is also a practice of players having alt accounts on multiple servers. so they essentially log into multiple accounts at the same time, using their alt account (on the enemy sever) to spy on enemy tags, giving a tactical advantage to their own server, essentially allowing them tp prevent their enemy squads from being able to take objectives. How? since the enemy knows where your tag is, they simply send the map blob to your location to wipe you before you can take the objective. 

it's a form of griefing / trolling that anet has already said is acceptable.

hiding your tag is the only way to combat this spying.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Forgotten Legend.9281

[kash.9213]

Try to be a visible example of avoiding a squads fields and setup and make a point that other pugs can see of not tailing them when they make a play. The usual pugs when I'm on normally form up a solo blob to float around the squad fights and maybe roll up where that squad can't hit or is about be hit and pick up our downs along the way. That's probably different server to server and whatever time you're logged on though. It's an unfortunate need that hopefully some in-game tools or indicators can clean up some day.