Banners: August 2nd

[Lighter.5631]

30 minutes ago, Geoff Fey.1035 said:

With the revision, it will be Barrier + Aegis + Pulsing Regen. In essence it'll function like a soft "extra heal skill".

• Aegis - Use the skill prior to telegraphed big attacks (where possible) to cancel out that single attack.
• Barrier - Cover healthbar and allows Regen to do its work
• Regen - Additional healing (Regen needs to be reworked.... personally it feels less valuable than even swiftness but it's something)

Mending Might (Tactics), Might Makes Right (Strength), Banner of Strength, and Banner of Defense will be a decent self-sustain while retaining an emergency button.

I would recommend to ANet that Mending Might be revamped to also provide Healing (or Barrier) to allies upon Warrior applying Might to them.

Soldier's Comfort + Empower Allies + Phalanx + Banner of Strength would easily become a healing build (coefficient dependent) and would provide Warriors with another toolbox for a support build that is:

• thematic ("stay in the fight")
• synergizes with the traitline but still dependent on other build components (Strength Traits, "For Great Justice" shout, etc),

keeps Tactics line from becoming overpowered; self-sustain still is not as good as Strength, but leans the Tactics line further into the "commander of armies" design

 

no not really. regen is minimum specially if you running power.

also both bullcharge and endure pain are at least twice more useful then defense banner in terms of sustaining.

and can block way more damage.

 

and if you running tactic shout heal, you are not taking defense banner. nor will you take strength banner over might makes right.

on my mark still swappable with endure pain and bullcharge, defense and strength are no competitors.

[Geoff Fey.1035]

What are thoughts if ANet moved Double Standards to the Tactics tree?

In Discipline allows Warriors two different Quickness-focused support options using Tactics (Burst, synergizes with Discipline for ease of access) or Discipline (Utilities, synergizes with Strength for sustain). Lower results; higher customization

In Tactics allows Warriors a super Quickness-focused build. Higher results; lower customization.

I would argue the higher customization is better for the health of the game as the game should promote choice and diversity within professions since it is moving towards homogenizing professions across the board.

(Note: this ignores the various reworks required for Warrior as a whole; just focusing on purely Double Standards placement in the tratlines)

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Just now, Geoff Fey.1035 said:

What are thoughts if ANet moved Double Standards to the Tactics tree?

In Discipline allows Warriors two different Quickness-focused support options using Tactics (Burst, synergizes with Discipline for ease of access) or Discipline (Utilities, synergizes with Strength for sustain). Lower results; higher customization

In Tactics allows Warriors a super Quickness-focused build. Higher results; lower customization.

I would argue the higher customization is better for the health of the game as the game should promote choice and diversity within professions since it is moving towards homogenizing professions across the board.

(Note: this ignores the various reworks required for Warrior as a whole; just focusing on purely Double Standards placement in the tratlines)

Wherever it resides I think Double Standards should cause the summoned effects to happen around the warrior and the banner at the same time.

[Fueki.4753]

I heavily disagree with the idea of reducing the radiuses of the banner effects.

The banners will still be substantially worse than currently popular Quickness sources. There is no need to take away even more from Warrior.

Edited July 28, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[JTGuevara.9018]

17 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I heavily disagree with the idea of reducing the radiuses of the banner effects.

The banners will still be substantially worse than currently popular Quickness sources. There is no need to take away even more from Warrior.

Yup, you're right. Keep the current radius. (They are still immobile.) The mechanical changes are pleasing, though.

[Geoff Fey.1035]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Wherever it resides I think Double Standards should cause the summoned effects to happen around the warrior and the banner at the same time.

 

Actually, if they split the difference and just give banners 2 charges it would probably be the best of both worlds with a little bit of QoL as well (the "cost" would be the cast time)

Gives the exact same effect as "occurs twice" but the Warrior can dictate where and when. 

Combo chaining more readily possible by putting down Tactics/Defence (Light Field) and then blasting with Strength/Discipline (Blast) without burning the on-cast effect

More on-cast effects but Warrior has more control over what effect occurs when

Edit: The elite would be a little OP, but... I dunno maybe make it so instead of double charges it provides a fire field or something? Good for burnzerkers, good for Might generation via Blast effect of Banners, etc

Edited July 28, 2022 by Geoff Fey.1035
Elite

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

16 minutes ago, Geoff Fey.1035 said:

 

Actually, if they split the difference and just give banners 2 charges it would probably be the best of both worlds with a little bit of QoL as well (the "cost" would be the cast time)

Gives the exact same effect as "occurs twice" but the Warrior can dictate where and when. 

Combo chaining more readily possible by putting down Tactics/Defence (Light Field) and then blasting with Strength/Discipline (Blast) without burning the on-cast effect

More on-cast effects but Warrior has more control over what effect occurs when

Edit: The elite would be a little OP, but... I dunno maybe make it so instead of double charges it provides a fire field or something? Good for burnzerkers, good for Might generation via Blast effect of Banners, etc

Any discussion of double casts or double procs I think would assume a priori that Battle Standard is excluded from such discussion.

Procing around the warrior and the summon location is plenty of control of where and when. You can summon at your feet while standing in a field and double blast it a few of the banners, or use it to daze an adjacent foe on one other guy trying to stomp a friendly, or blast two separate fields depending on positioning.

[Vancho.8750]

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I heavily disagree with the idea of reducing the radiuses of the banner effects.

The banners will still be substantially worse than currently popular Quickness sources. There is no need to take away even more from Warrior.

Man, I have a strange feeling that I might have given them the idea to nerf it by suggesting that Warrior/Ranger combo might have been good idea for a different PVE strat where you can spread the group and even go ranged and still get boons as opposed to blobing on to FB/Mech.

That could have been the seller for playing warrior of over FB for quickness, all they had to do is pair the alacrity/quickness providers into some way of playing the game, but Anet seems to love the whole stack all the light show skills in one small place blob style. 
 

[KryTiKaL.3125]

4 hours ago, Geoff Fey.1035 said:

What are thoughts if ANet moved Double Standards to the Tactics tree?

In Discipline allows Warriors two different Quickness-focused support options using Tactics (Burst, synergizes with Discipline for ease of access) or Discipline (Utilities, synergizes with Strength for sustain). Lower results; higher customization

In Tactics allows Warriors a super Quickness-focused build. Higher results; lower customization.

I would argue the higher customization is better for the health of the game as the game should promote choice and diversity within professions since it is moving towards homogenizing professions across the board.

(Note: this ignores the various reworks required for Warrior as a whole; just focusing on purely Double Standards placement in the tratlines)

Swap Doubled Standards and Leg Specialist. Easy.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

11 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Far from it.

There have been several functionality splits already. One example to my mind is that a mech has a locked breakbar in PvE, while having absolutely no breakbar in PvP.

 

Fair enough @ this and the other quotes.  Got a little excited there~

[Opopanax.1803]

Battle Standard should have a group stunbreak on cast, 600 radius... it is an Elite, afterall.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Reading through the notes again I think this is important to highlight:

" duration will stack up more quickly"

That says to me that the intervals are dropping from 3s to 1s or 2s. That makes them much more powerful within that 360 radius effect.

Not counting what the quickness uptime ends up being, those pulsed boons would be perma upkept with 0 BD.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

I anticipate some problems with the 360 radius. I agree, @Lan Deathrider.5910, that the wording suggests reducing the pulse interval, and that will help some.

 

I think it would be best, however, if the "on drop" effects applied in a radius of 360 but the pulsing effects acted on radius 600. That would give a lot more flexibility to the squad/team so they don't need to stack tightly to get the boons(doing so even for a few seconds makes you very vulnerable to mechanics or counter pressure AOEs).

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

12 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I anticipate some problems with the 360 radius. I agree, @Lan Deathrider.5910, that the wording suggests reducing the pulse interval, and that will help some.

 

I think it would be best, however, if the "on drop" effects applied in a radius of 360 but the pulsing effects acted on radius 600. That would give a lot more flexibility to the squad/team so they don't need to stack tightly to get the boons(doing so even for a few seconds makes you very vulnerable to mechanics or counter pressure AOEs).

360 radius is still a meaningful radius. Especially if the pulse intervals are indeed reduced to 1s. You'd only need to stay there for a few seconds to overcap the durations with 100% BD, which you would got half of from Double Standards anyway.

This update may end up being very nice indeed.

[anbujackson.9564]

5 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Reading through the notes again I think this is important to highlight:

" duration will stack up more quickly"

That says to me that the intervals are dropping from 3s to 1s or 2s. That makes them much more powerful within that 360 radius effect.

Not counting what the quickness uptime ends up being, those pulsed boons would be perma upkept with 0 BD.

Hmm I dont think so. Every 2 seconds is unlikely because of the uneven duration number. Every second would be op (16x 4 seconds on fury).

What they meant is IMO that it stacks more quickly because they increased the base duration. So you got all the value out of your skill after a shorter period of time. 12 seconds (100 % BD and DB) every three seconds is pretty impressive still. 

Edited July 29, 2022 by anbujackson.9564

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 minutes ago, anbujackson.9564 said:

Hmm I dont think so. Every 2 seconds is unlikely because of the uneven duration number. Every second would be op (16x 4 seconds on fury).

What they meant is IMO that it stacks more quickly because they increased the base duration. So you got all the value out of your skill after a shorter period of time. 12 seconds (100 % BD and DB) every three seconds is pretty impressive still. 

Maybe. We'll see though.

[Broxxgar.6801]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 @Grand Marshal.4098 @CalmTheStorm.2364
(ERROR - I didn't Remember that the bundle was removed, bad decision to remove it from banners)
Hello Guys I was watching you from afar. Hope that everyone here is well and I don't know if you a remember me or not.

I kept my eye on the forum. Warrior is a class that I play and I like  the most in any MMO. But here in GW2 we have a differences against the common tab target combat that we experience in Majority of MMO's.

So I came here to bring some thoughts and News to you. I had been look for this for a long time. I'm without time to play , so today I take a break and look for a thing that many of you was talking about that was the Banner. This thing I discover when I was doing a quest years ago. This ideia is already on the game its juts need to be plugged on Warriros Skills.


This is how banner should work when picked or droped on the ground.

https://i.imgur.com/e8gJ3uW.jpg

This should work when we grab it.

Now what each skill does:
And each Skill has action. I don't know why Arena.net or the devs didn't take from this mission.

https://i.imgur.com/yZGLMVu.jpg



https://i.imgur.com/dhRyLFL.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/KZhd2fU.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/rqJk2cW.jpg

I did know this for a long time but kept in silencing just watching what Arena.net would do with the current change on Banners. Sad but they really don't know to much about their own game.


For other who want to take a look this is the mission on the map (Metrica Province):
https://i.imgur.com/N7qm6Vu.jpg

I like the way of Bladesworn was design but the self-root and the total desync with core special weapon skill broke the entire class a part. Bladesworn is almost a new class trying to surviving with warrior core skill.



@Lan Deathrider.5910 may you could contact I think CMC.
My images don't save as should be saved... don't know why.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Broxxgar.6801

[angrax.1372]

On 7/27/2022 at 8:37 PM, lgwald.4038 said:

Am I crazy to think the banner that gives stab, super speed and resistance is going to be good for sPvp? All of that feels useful on a node. Especially against certain classes that spam weakness and blinds. 

I do. It will be a hard competition against the shouts though. But I will definitely try out some banners in sPvP.

[Fueki.4753]

3 hours ago, Broxxgar.6801 said:

 I don't know why Arena.net or the devs didn't take from this mission.

I don't know if you remember it (or ever knew about it), but once upon a time Banners actually had skills to fight with, when you picked them up.

Arenanet actively decided that they don't want Banners to be weapon bundles when picked up.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

3 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I don't know if you remember it (or ever knew about it), but once upon a time Banners actually had skills to fight with, when you picked them up.

Arenanet actively decided that they don't want banners to be weapon bundles when picked up.

That, and also the banners would do damage when summoned which made them at least fun. The most important thing I see in these changes is that they've included not only better effects but some fun gameplay.

IMO, one of their biggest errors in handling the warrior class was the constant nerfing of actual fun, only ever tweaking numbers, never thinking about if warrior was becoming less fun to play with. I hope they rethink a lot more aspects of warrior.

[prototypedragon.1406]

Considering anet's first take on changing banners I can't wait to hear what they plan on doing for hammer and mace skills for warrior 🤣 we would be lucky to get 5 additional damage on our CC's especially the Almighty Earthtickler burst skill🤣🤣🤣 hopefully though they have already looked at player recommendations for them so less confused faces on their end lol. Overall Banners seem to be heading in a semi decent direction, I may actually use one in wvw if it gives reasonable group stability. Not going to lie the only banner I have used in 10 years was the elite banner every now and again.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

6 hours ago, Broxxgar.6801 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 @Grand Marshal.4098 @CalmTheStorm.2364

Hello Guys I was watching you from afar. Hope that everyone here is well and I don't know if you a remember me or not.

I kept my eye on the forum. Warrior is a class that I play and I like  the most in any MMO. But here in GW2 we have a differences against the common tab target combat that we experience in Majority of MMO's.

So I came here to bring some thoughts and News to you. I had been look for this for a long time. I'm without time to play , so today I take a break and look for a thing that many of you was talking about that was the Banner. This thing I discover when I was doing a quest years ago. Hope that you all like and bring to CMC if that is his name. This ideia is already on the game its juts need to be plugged on Warriros Skills.


This is how banner should work when picked or droped on the ground.

https://i.imgur.com/e8gJ3uW.jpg

This should work when we grab it.

Now what each skill does:
And each Skill has action. I don't know why Arena.net or the devs didn't take from this mission.

https://i.imgur.com/yZGLMVu.jpg



https://i.imgur.com/dhRyLFL.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/KZhd2fU.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/rqJk2cW.jpg

I did know this for a long time but kept in silencing just watching what Arena.net would do with the current change on Banners. Sad but they really don't know to much about their own game.


For other who want to take a look this is the mission on the map (Metrica Province):
https://i.imgur.com/N7qm6Vu.jpg

I like the way of Bladesworn was design but the self-root and the total desync with core special weapon skill broke the entire class a part. Bladesworn is almost a new class trying to surviving with warrior core skill.



@Lan Deathrider.5910 may you could contact I think CMC.
My images don't save as should be saved... don't know why.

Yes, I remember you mate. CMC doesn't like me @'ing him.

 

As was said, we used to have full bundles at launch. There were problems with that approach, but stronger sets of skills would have alleviated that. Anet has made the decision to not go back to that path.

[Broxxgar.6801]

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Yes, I remember you mate. CMC doesn't like me @'ing him.

 

As was said, we used to have full bundles at launch. There were problems with that approach, but stronger sets of skills would have alleviated that. Anet has made the decision to not go back to that path.

@Fueki.4753
Oh sorry, I didn't remember that has  a bundle of skill, when I come back years ago it was already without those bundles. The wiki also says that:
March 05, 2019: Banners no longer have skills and are instead destroyed when they're picked up.

But this should be the way that the skill was intended to do. Any deviate from the main ideia will impact in the entire Warrior System. So Arena net is suffering with bad design concepts.

And to finish , is very strange for a company of this size bring this kind of updates. They are messing everything up. I keep not understand why MMOs has so much flawn design. GW2 has a awesome history, but a poor relation with their player base. And the game just got a DX11 update on this Exp. Is kind hard to find a MMO where everything is balanced. Or you have decent Graphic, with poor combat and lore; decent combat with poor lore and graphic; decent lore with poor combat and graphic.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Broxxgar.6801

[ThunderX.6591]

Thinking about the new changes to banners, i am pointing strongly on the idea someone wrote about change banners skills to AOE casting skills with the centre based around the war (like shout or similar) that give the new "place banner initial effect" and spam the random boons with a pulse kind activation, to end all the problem of the reduces radius (from 600 to 360 without possibility to change the position after you place them), reduces duration of the banner (from 60 secs duration and 60 sec cooldown to 15 secs duration and 30 secs cooldown, Elite banner get a lot worse now cause cooldown stay at 120 secs) and "immovable banner ground position placement" we get again.

I think the idea to simple get a animation/image of a banner on the war head when the skills are active would be good enough to restore the bad status the entire banners concept is today as a mechanics in the game.

[Aeolus.3615]

ohoh i like this changes!

Altough barrier on banner and we all know what stats barrier needs to be boosted, while still providing boon, i would say celestial warriors or celestial mixed with  2 or 3 diviner pieces, to work well as whole?