I realized one of the biggest problems with EoD final meta

[ProtoGunner.4953]

And again: still an issue? I don't know is this a US server thing that they fail? Since about 1-2 weeks after release I've done this map regularly without big problems. Sure de event failed from time to time, but now? I don't know. People seem to be just utterly casual and complain when they play in a half empty map on 3 AM.

[Caliboom.3218]

3 hours ago, Silent.6137 said:

You know what I see frequently when we do DE meta? Happy people. People who know each other and saying "Hi". We get the victory and we all have a good time. And everyone wants to show up for the next one. That's healthy for the game and it's an enjoyable experience for us

Yeah, but if it's a loss, people start getting toxic. Only way to win it is with a "coordinated" squad with boons and all that, if you join a random squad, yeah, good luck.

[AliamRationem.5172]

3 hours ago, Luci.7018 said:

The goal of the PvE map , is to teach the General Population  to do the mechanics (cc-steap out of cc -rez-don't die - greens) . It's mid-lvl-progression.

 

People doing it over and over  , get used to them and that should be the goal  .

But the timer discourage people from doing it again , that why the majority when they see that dps is low at the entry bosses , they start fishing and give up the event .

While other groups  create groups in a different map so the low-dps-player won't join them

 

 

 

They create groups in different maps so they can populate a map with their squad rather than having a bunch of spots taken up by people fishing or AFK.  You're welcome to join the squad like everyone else.  There's nothing exclusionary about it.

[AliamRationem.5172]

4 hours ago, Luci.7018 said:

Astralporing  is right on this one .The majority avoid this meta  .

I know that you want the general population to step up  , but if we repeat the same mistakes and prevent even more people from learning from this mid-lvl progression (Story>Overworld>Strike>Raid>CM Strikes) , we will do more harm than good for the future .

This is why you are wrong here and must never repeat that.

The goal should be the same as CM temple .. learn to do greens + mobility skills + cc + steap away from aoes + rez + not dying all the time . But not strict timers for the mid-progression areas (Overworld) .

 

Edit: If you have played WoW : then the open PvE is equivalent of the WoW  LFD

They don't avoid it because it fails.  They avoid it because the way it's designed you have to get into a squad an hour beforehand and play the map jumping game.  This is due to the design of the pre-event stage and low map population cap.  If players could just show up and join a squad the way they do in HoT metas, for instance, a lot more players would participate.  But as it stands they need to block off up to 2 hours to ensure they get a spot on a meta map.

That's my only gripe with this event.  It's a fantastic event.  Truly epic and rewarding.  But that getting ready to get ready phase and organizing a squad with the map cap so low is a real problem.  I expect most players just want to show up and play, not worry about getting a spot on the right map and then waiting around for an hour to get started.

[Ashen.2907]

It doesn't feel like a raid encounter to me. Ive never been in a raid group that could win with random PUGs who had never done the encounter before, without significant organization, and without buildcraft, etc. All of my DE wins have been PUGs, minimal organization/direction, no build direction, etc. My one failed event involved a significant portion of people who died refusing to WP back into the fight so that they could lie there spamming map chat with complaints and calling those still trying names.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Ashen.2907

[AliamRationem.5172]

6 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Pretty sure they were suggesting an additional instanced version for people who want a challenge, not putting it only in an instance.

But as to leeching, yes I want to support that kind of game if it means open world metas are a fun community experience. You know what I see frequently when I go to AB. People happy. People who know each other saying hi. Why should I care whether joe bob over in the corner is phoning it in. If we get the victory and people have a good time, and they want to show up for the next one, that's healthy for the game and it's an enjoyable experience for people. Why would that bother me. "People are happy playing this game." "Ok, that's fine I guess, but are they being challenged enough???"

Why not both?  I enjoy Octovine, but would be very disappointed if every meta were a 3 minute auto-win.  MMOs have lots of different players that don't all enjoy the same things.  The content should reflect that.

[Crono.4197]

52 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I think the DE meta is the best open world event in the game (the hour+ I have to waste getting ready to get ready to actually do the event, though?  Not so much...).  It's fun and interesting and they obviously put a lot of work into crafting an epic experience for this fight.

I am a regular player last I checked?  I've hardly done any CMs or raids in the years I've been playing.  Seems to me you're what we call a toxic casual.  If everything in the game isn't to your particular tastes anyone who disagrees with you is an elitist treating you like crap.  So, I would say not listening to you is definitely the best thing to do!

Right because listening to those that want this game to become harder is the good thing to do, right? This was the last game that actually cared about the players and not only about boosting personal ego because "Oh look I cleared hard content, I'm better than the others". And we are slowly losing this. But I guess some people just don't care as long as tgey can bathe in their fake internet glory.

You don't need to listen or to agree with me, it's just sad that the game is choosing the same direction like all the other MMOs. Gonna get even worse with the Steam release.

But yeah, what does a "toxic casual" know about the game. Let's just make open world bosses 1 shot everything.

[kharmin.7683]

11 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

That's my only gripe with this event.  It's a fantastic event.  Truly epic and rewarding.  But that getting ready to get ready phase and organizing a squad with the map cap so low is a real problem.  I expect most players just want to show up and play, not worry about getting a spot on the right map and then waiting around for an hour to get started.

This is why I don't do strikes or raids.  I just cannot commit to this kind of time sink.  This is also why I thought that the DE meta should have been instanced content and the reward not placed behind it.  /shrug

[Lini.2698]

Dragon's end does feel really strange compared to most other metas. I don't have any major issues with the fight itself, but all the preparation issues makes it awkward to do when you get the feel for it.

 

The other day I felt like doing Dragon's Stand. I went there shortly before the map resets, found a squad and we went at it. Timezones means it won't always be one, but it's not a very difficult process. Chak and Tarir are even simpler (I don't do VB often enough to commenton it). Drizzlewood and Dragonfall are a bit more odd because the timing is less clear, but it's generally easy enough to join up with a squad at whichever stage the event is currently at.

 

Dragon's End however... You kinda need to get there and start gathering stacks even before it's clear that a squad is forming, if there is one. Because those stacks do make a difference both to your contribution and your reward. Right now I have a character parked in DE because I went to gather stacks and then a squad never ended up forming. So instead of going to do something else I just closed the game, 'cause why let the timer on those stacks tick down and potentially run out of I get caught up in something?

 

It really is preparation for the preparation, as said above, and it makes it hard to want to do this meta 'cause you can't really just do it when you feel like it (when the time rolls around I mean). You have to plan ahead and hope that preparing ends up paying off just in getting a spot in a squad. That's not even taking into account wether the meta is successful or not. It's so different from the rest of the game in the kind of timesink it is, and doesn't feel all that great even when it pays off in a victory. 

 

I really do wish it was more like DS in that way. To let us be a bit spontaneous and feel some momentum instead of the slog that builds up to just the potential start.

[AliamRationem.5172]

5 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

This is why I don't do strikes or raids.  I just cannot commit to this kind of time sink.  This is also why I thought that the DE meta should have been instanced content and the reward not placed behind it.  /shrug

They could have just designed the map like Dragon's Stand where you just show up and join a squad.  My guess is they wanted to avoid the downside of that design which is that the map is dead unless you're there to run the meta.  So they tried to do both: A standard map with regular events followed by a DS-style march to the boss.  It just takes way too long, in my opinion.

They already have 3 instanced versions of the fight: personal story, strike, and strike CM.  I think this open world version was a good idea.  The execution was a bit off, however.

[Ashen.2907]

5 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

This is why I don't do strikes or raids.  I just cannot commit to this kind of time sink.  This is also why I thought that the DE meta should have been instanced content and the reward not placed behind it.  /shrug

I don't know if you've tried Strikes yet, but the time committment is nothing like that for raids. My guild group of very casual (and age mostly late 50's to late 60's) complete most individual strikes in less than ten minutes. Some strikes are even quicker (3 to 5 minutes). That said, yes some (KO, HT) take a bit longer.

[kharmin.7683]

9 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

They could have just designed the map like Dragon's Stand where you just show up and join a squad.  My guess is they wanted to avoid the downside of that design which is that the map is dead unless you're there to run the meta.  So they tried to do both: A standard map with regular events followed by a DS-style march to the boss.  It just takes way too long, in my opinion.

They already have 3 instanced versions of the fight: personal story, strike, and strike CM.  I think this open world version was a good idea.  The execution was a bit off, however.

Completely agree.

9 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

I don't know if you've tried Strikes yet, but the time committment is nothing like that for raids. My guild group of very casual (and age mostly late 50's to late 60's) complete most individual strikes in less than ten minutes. Some strikes are even quicker (3 to 5 minutes). That said, yes some (KO, HT) take a bit longer.

Sounds like my kind of group!  Might dip my toe in a strike someday, then.

Edited August 22, 2022 by kharmin.7683

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I'll echo that the main problem is that it does not function like Dragon's Stand where you just need to get the squad together and start it. The prep phase is just too long.

That said, for the actual fight, so long as people know what to do and TARGET THE TAIL when it pops and to CC THE BAR when it appears, then it will succeed.

I took part in a joke run where everyone in the map popped their apple or commander tags not expecting at all to succeed. We completed it with plenty of time to spare. No coordination, just +50 tags and apples minding the minimap, minding progress bars, minding the Breakbar, and minding the Tail. If everyone knows what to do it goes smoothly.

At this point any failures can be chalked up to lack of player knowledge or a bunch of 3k AA players not knowing what a dps rotation is expecting a handout/hard carry from everybody else.

[Zyreva.1078]

33 minutes ago, Crono.4197 said:

Right because listening to those that want this game to become harder is the good thing to do, right? This was the last game that actually cared about the players and not only about boosting personal ego because "Oh look I cleared hard content, I'm better than the others". And we are slowly losing this.

But the game isn't becoming harder. Quite the opposite is the case. The vast majority of content added with EOD is very easy. Much easier than HoT (at release) for example. Existing content is also getting easier and easier thanks to powercreep and broken stuff like the jade bot.

Also what's bad about betting better at the game? What's the benefit of being bad and actively avoiding any improvement? I just don't understand.

[Cuks.8241]

6 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yeah. People that are happy because most of those filthy casuals stopped showing up. Whenever more of the usual OW crowd does show up, the unhappiness flares again though. It's just it happens less and less because less and less players even bother, leaving that event to only a small circle of self-adoration.

You're spewing nonsense. Got any data to back it up?

I've written before in this thread, if you judge by the price of statues on the TP the meta is completed by about the same amount of players (just a bit less) as Echovald meta. Much more than Kaineng and less than Seitung meta.

I'm open for different interpretation of this data or how this correlation is wrong. But what I am seeing in game is that the meta is popular and mostly successful. And by my experience its one of the few open world events where players actually are working together, communicate and get some kick out of the event. 

Or maybe the meta is only done by  organised raiding teams which means we have A LOT more raiders in the game as it is common perception. 

[Shinjiko.1352]

I was honestly really glad when I got to try the DE meta. The fact it had an element of risk and could fail really brought back what all the previous metas used to be like. Some of the most fun I've ever had in my 9 years of playing this was working together with people to complete big metas. From accidently stumbling across Teq and working with them making boat teams etc to learning about TT and fighting to get a slot in one of the condi teams. It was really fun, it felt like a big group effort and that is what they sold it as, a game with challenging combat and open world encounters.

Fast forward to HoT and you get everyone working together to build up Verdant Brink for the night to kill ALL the bosses not just the one. Then onto Tarir where it's the same, we'll work together to build a map up and actually have to sync up kills properly because there was only time for maybe 1 or 2 messups, no PICNIC/ PANIC because we all know it will never fail now. Then Chak Gerent the same people working together, actually getting to see it go to other phases instead of 1 burning it with auto attacks. Dragon Stand is still a lengthy meta but isn't immune, it's pretty easy once you get the the end part because mounts kind of make it a joke as does the power creep. I recall doing it and being like "I really need to get ley line gliding for this so I can be more effective".

PoF ... we don't really talk about metas here since there's so few 😛

EoD suffers from this too with all the metas bar DE. Aetherblade conceptually is so much fun, but the final boss just kind of stands there in the middle, never gets any big attacks off and never moves into any of the hazards in the room corners until near the end when he's basically dead. I was really hyped doing it at first because it is a scrapper and that's one of my fav classes. The other two events are just the same as everything else, you turn up, auto, maybe dodge a few times and win.

I also do enjoy fractals and such however shouting down at people wanting harder open world content to go to fractals/ raids is just silly. The game used to have harder open world content, people just got too used to power creep making it easy to complete 99% of everything. The game was designed around this content meaning to be somewhat challenging, otherwise why code in certain mechanics? Unfortunately the balance of things has led to a lot of things being too easy. That big feeling of working together with a whole map to achieve something is not obtainable in 10 man squads. It doesn't have the same sense of scale and community.

I personally hope the devs take a pass of all content and tune it to todays power in the game. I love that they have been revisiting older stuff lately and tweaking it.

[Silent.6137]

7 hours ago, Luci.7018 said:

You know what I see frequently when we do any other meta?  Even happier people . More relaxed people that tell jokes.

The point I was trying to make is that there is no difference. People are happy when they do things they like and are successful. But you obviously do not grasp the concept.

7 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

I did one the other day and it was a fail and people seemed kind of silent and bummed to me.

Whether it's a meta, a champion or any other game modes, would you expect anyone to be jubilant at a loss? People are always happy when they win, or when they expect to win, regardless of where it is. That was what I intended to point out by quoting you.

6 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yeah. People that are happy because most of those filthy casuals stopped showing up. Whenever more of the usual OW crowd does show up, the unhappiness flares again though. It's just it happens less and less because less and less players even bother, leaving that event to only a small circle of self-adoration.

You don't do that meta anymore. So, how would you know what goes on there?

6 hours ago, Luci.7018 said:

If we stretch the timer by 1,5-2min , the actual mechanics won't be affected .

Timer was never the issue when they regularly finish with 5 mins+ and often 7 mins+.

If you increase the timer, the results will still be the same for groups that will likely lose. More people with less urgency. Then you increase some more and more. And you see more AFKers. Then what? Get rid of the timer completely?

6 hours ago, Luci.7018 said:

Astralporing  is right on this one .The majority avoid this meta  .

And what evidence do you have?

5 hours ago, Luci.7018 said:

But the timer discourage people from doing it again , that why the majority when they see that dps is low at the entry bosses

It discouraged you from doing it because you fail. There are many who do it on a regular basis and many who are doing it for their very first time. And those new to the meta are always amaze at the fun they had with the fight after hearing some of you with your doom and gloom.

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

That said, for the actual fight, so long as people know what to do and TARGET THE TAIL when it pops and to CC THE BAR when it appears, then it will succeed.

Most of the regular squads you see on LFG ignore the tail. Tails are usually a non-issue.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Silent.6137

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

9 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

Most of the regular squads you see on LFG ignore the tail. Tails are usually a non-issue.

Depends on if you break the bar, and how close you are to phasing. If it is obvious that the DPS is not enough to phase her quickly then it's better to drop the tail quickly. It really doesn't take much to dispatch it if it gets focused. But again, if she is close to phasing then it is better to just hit the head (toenails?). That last part though requires people who do more than press their 1 key with Soldier's gear equipped.

[Silent.6137]

1 minute ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Depends on if you break the bar, and how close you are to phasing. If it is obvious that the DPS is not enough to phase her quickly then it's better to drop the tail quickly. It really doesn't take much to dispatch it if it gets focused. But again, if she is close to phasing then it is better to just hit the head (toenails?). That last part though requires people who do more than press their 1 key with Soldier's gear equipped.

Totally agree. I shouldn't have said ignore the tail. We do keep an eye on the % to phase and squads I've been on had not had to deal with tails the last few months since it's always been within the tolerant limits.

[Luci.7018]

Quote

It discouraged you from doing it because you fail. There are many who do it on a regular basis and many who are doing it for their very first time. And those new to the meta are always amaze at the fun they had with the fight after hearing some of you with your doom and gloom.

 

There are more people that are not doing it and prefer to spent their time anywhere else .

I logged in almost every time and see the result .

 

I agree that people are amazed by the content . I am arguing that open-events dont need strict timers . That should be for CMS.

Otherwise what will be the next mid-progression ground ? Previous Metas that people have already mastered ? Or should we postpone Story-Strikes for 2 months and offer people that mid-areas ?

 

Edit2: Yeah , that the best option . "They should postpone the Story/Strike for a couple of months and create a new differeent mid-progression area" after they ended focus on Scarlet ep 4-5

Leaving this thread , so the Devs read this and it's not lost

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Luci.7018

[Bunny.9834]

This meta seemed easier than the last time I did it, which was 3 months ago. 

It was with a semi organized pug that obviosly doesnt know how to read squad messages. 

We dont have a complete team of alac or quickness in each squad. 

Even Soo Won wasnt that hard anymore. 

The power creep tomorrow will just make the DPS check for this meta even easier. 

 

 

and for someone new to raiding… this doesnt even compare. 

[Silent.6137]

2 hours ago, Luci.7018 said:

There are more people that are not doing it and prefer to spent their time anywhere else

That statement deserves two of these: 🙄🙄.

Every single meta, events, strikes, raids, etc., there will always be more people that are not doing them and prefer to spend their time somewhere else.

[Ashen.2907]

16 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

That statement deserves two of these: 🙄🙄.

Every single meta, events, strikes, raids, etc., there will always be more people that are not doing them and prefer to spend their time somewhere else.

This.

Even people who like this one event are likely to have multiple other things in the game that they like and also spend time doing. 

[MarkBecks.6453]

I waited to buy EoD which I only bought a week ago, and my thoughts on Soo Won is the time it takes to do the meta. I have tried 3 times today, and all failed at the last minute which is extremely frustrating. My observations are, if you want to command then please make subgroups up so everyone knows which island to go to, otherwise you flying from one to the other to try help. This meta has to be organised to succeed, and the number of players sitting at the floating waypoint is mind-blowing when every a souls is needed to add alacrity, dps etc. This is not for your regular Joe, and with steam launch, its going to be a real kitten fest while new players find their way in the next few weeks. I play WvW a lot, so this helps with dodges, equipment, builds, but I am seeing players die every second on the platform, and some of them dont res. I have found this frustrating, and today, I lost 6 hours of my day for absolutely nothing, 3 fails, disorganised, people running around headless while the Comms cannot type instructions due to the intensity and focus of the fight. I have played for 10 years, and you wuld think that after EoD launch, people would have learned the dynamics and their roles, but really think this meta is terrible, as the damage to the npc's on the platform during that phase is like being on a level 15 map fighting level 80 champ, just my thoughts. And yes full leggy specked hours and hours of grind to do that little damage makes you wonder.

[Silent.6137]

10 minutes ago, MarkBecks.6453 said:

I have tried 3 times today, and all failed at the last minute which is extremely frustrating. My observations are, if you want to command then please make subgroups up so everyone knows which island to go to, otherwise you flying from one to the other to try help. This meta has to be organised to succeed, and the number of players sitting at the floating waypoint is mind-blowing when every a souls is needed to add alacrity, dps etc.

Been mentioned many times on many threads. Join a LFG squad. If commander do not attempt to make subgroups, run far away. If the LFG group says meta taxi, chilled run, etc., go watch some youtube videos instead. If you see a last minute squad forming on map, continue farming and ignore the squad.

As for the floating waypoint, those are mainly leechers expecting the others to do the work and swoop in for the rewards after a win. You'll always see a few of them not only at DE meta but at other metas as well. And they'll be the ones complaining the loudest when any meta fails.