Mesmer Feb 3 preview

[semak.7481]

13 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

I assume that other professions also have this happen but, maining Mesmer for long enough it is really easy to see what has happened.  Anet's Prof team identify something that either needs to be or they want to change, then apply that change without considering the wider application.  Mantras were changed twice because of Guardian QoL, nothing to do with Mesmer.  Distortion was added to Virtuoso only because it was added to Chrono, nothing to do with Virtuoso.

Then they say nonsense like 'we don't see many players using some Chrono Wells so we added a couple things to two of them'.  Do they see anyone playing Chrono let alone Chrono Wells at all?  What are these mythical builds which care about these wells?

I'd wager the goal for Anet is to keep pushing out these updates and allow Mesmer to continue to suffer their poor decision making.  Beyond the publicly known disdain the Anet developers have for Mesmers and the Mesmer community, I would anticipate they will do as little as possible for Mesmer, specifically Chrono and Mirage, towards creating Meta builds that can compete in multiple game modes.

I can't even suggest Hopium in the form of a forthcoming major rework to Mirage/Mesmer.  It isn't going to happen, the team doesn't have the resources or care for the player base in general to do such a thing.  Until @Cal Cohen.2358 and his cronies are removed from the Profession Development team, do not expect much of anything for Mesmer.  They have their preferred professions and we keep seeing them invest time into making them work well.

Or prove me wrong Cal, if you are reading this, and show us that you are unbiased in your approach to balancing the professions in this game.  That you don't just slap changes onto Mesmer because you want to change Guardian yet again, or whatever garbage you are pulling next.

 

TL;DR - There are no goals for Mesmer.  There is no plan for the future of the profession.  This is it, neglected because the developers are idiots.

inb4 fat ban for offending "clearly not biased ele/warrior fanboy"

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

Another garbage patch, nice. Please fix the mirror blade bug at least.

Edited February 4, 2023 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[Mell.4873]

4 hours ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

I assume that other professions also have this happen but, maining Mesmer for long enough it is really easy to see what has happened.  Anet's Prof team identify something that either needs to be or they want to change, then apply that change without considering the wider application.  Mantras were changed twice because of Guardian QoL, nothing to do with Mesmer.  Distortion was added to Virtuoso only because it was added to Chrono, nothing to do with Virtuoso.

Then they say nonsense like 'we don't see many players using some Chrono Wells so we added a couple things to two of them'.  Do they see anyone playing Chrono let alone Chrono Wells at all?  What are these mythical builds which care about these wells?

I'd wager the goal for Anet is to keep pushing out these updates and allow Mesmer to continue to suffer their poor decision making.  Beyond the publicly known disdain the Anet developers have for Mesmers and the Mesmer community, I would anticipate they will do as little as possible for Mesmer, specifically Chrono and Mirage, towards creating Meta builds that can compete in multiple game modes.

I can't even suggest Hopium in the form of a forthcoming major rework to Mirage/Mesmer.  It isn't going to happen, the team doesn't have the resources or care for the player base in general to do such a thing.  Until @Cal Cohen.2358 and his cronies are removed from the Profession Development team, do not expect much of anything for Mesmer.  They have their preferred professions and we keep seeing them invest time into making them work well.

Or prove me wrong Cal, if you are reading this, and show us that you are unbiased in your approach to balancing the professions in this game.  That you don't just slap changes onto Mesmer because you want to change Guardian yet again, or whatever garbage you are pulling next.

 

TL;DR - There are no goals for Mesmer.  There is no plan for the future of the profession.  This is it, neglected because the developers are idiots.

Right... and I guess my eyes deserve when I see them as one of the top picks for WvW. They have many great PvE options (pretty much what I use Mesmer for) and even in sPvP Virtuoso can be an amazing duelist. 

[Mell.4873]

5 hours ago, semak.7481 said:

inb4 fat ban for offending "clearly not biased ele/warrior fanboy"

Wasn't Elementalist and Warrior the two most consistent classes at the bottom for years. 

Elementalist had almost no payout for it's incredibly hard rotation and was almost entirely reliant on outside boons to get those high DPS numbers. Conquest PvP was it's only game mode for the longest time. 

Warrior was even worse, it was relegated to holding banners and boon striping, when that was removed it had nothing to contribute to any game mode.

This Mesmer forum lol. 

[Bunny.9834]

the Manipulation and Glamour line changes.

makes no sense. 

Glamour is in Inspiration, which is the aegis generator. 

Manipulation is a defensive line which benefits from Superspeed. 

Who’s coming up with these??? 

🤡🤡🤡🤡

[Moradorin.6217]

1 hour ago, Bunny.9834 said:

the Manipulation and Glamour line changes.

makes no sense. 

Glamour is in Inspiration, which is the aegis generator. 

Manipulation is a defensive line which benefits from Superspeed. 

Who’s coming up with these??? 

🤡🤡🤡🤡

Yeah the same 🤡that seems unwilling to address the one dodge issue.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Moradorin.6217

[katte nici.9483]

8 hours ago, semak.7481 said:

inb4 fat ban for offending "clearly not biased ele/warrior fanboy"

I welcome everyone to the club of people with strikes that don't expire.

[Fallub.9103]

I really don't see why this change was necessary. These changes make Mantras really clunky to use - at least Pain should still be usable without preparing it first, or otherwise it uses its instant-dps capability completely. I am very disappointed with this change. 

At least give Mesmers (or at least Pain) the same PvE auto-recast the Firebrand gets.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Fallub.9103

[apharma.3741]

15 hours ago, Curunen.8729 said:

The thing that bothers me most is how often going round in circles with what appear to be either changes for the sake of changes, or unclear direction, or flip flopping back and forth between ideas.

And then stuff that really needs the work is done with the most surface level patch job (distortion on virtuoso...) because quite frankly pointless stuff is prioritised (well of senility name change for example).

I mean we're here going yay decoy and mirror images get cool down reduction, but how much work is it to reduce these numbers that should have been done years ago?

I have no idea what the end goal is (saying that as a process not a finite state).

I think it's really clear that they're not putting in any effort with mesmer, or at least not as much as their favourites ele, guardian and then whatever N**u and his cronies are asking for in the balance Discord to have the game their way for their classes.
Mantra changes, both times, were done for Firebrand and not mesmer. Neither time they gave any thought to the mesmer mantras, just check out the extra polish added to FB mantras:
 

• Firebrand mantras will now automatically swap to their charged state when not on cooldown and when the player is out of combat in PvE maps.
• Weighty Terms: This trait will now only trigger on the final charge of a mantra and restores one page in addition to its current effect. This trait no longer has an internal cooldown.

This zerg build is how mesmer is seen in WvW, strong because of into the void, gravity well, null field and vicious expression basically pulling and deleting people because they have no boons.

For roaming this, this and this is how it's seen, basically running the crutch lines and being invuln as much as it can.
For PvP most people see mesmer as Virtuoso running around stalling a node and blocking or invulning all the time, or one shot builds where they had no time to react because they're not as map aware as they think.
For PvE it's seen as an easy to play condi or power versions of virtuoso or mirage, quite low intensity.

This is how they see mesmer, not the bugs or the janky stuff or the builds that almost work but all the traits are in 4 lines instead of 3 because they simply don't play it. Their end goal is to give platitudes and save face but largely ignore mesmer as long as it has 1 meta build, usually utilising something people don't really like and using that as justification for not making changes to give other builds that are competitive.

[Daishi.6027]

LMAO. Glad to see playing other games is the right choice.

[Axl.8924]

Question to you guys: Won't it be decently useful to bring timewarp now for WVW?

 

big effects like wells and timewarp if they got anything could prob be useful as some sorta big cc effect.

[Moradorin.6217]

2 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

Question to you guys: Won't it be decently useful to bring timewarp now for WVW?

 

big effects like wells and timewarp if they got anything could prob be useful as some sorta big cc effect.

If you want to bring it you will have to do without Mass invis, or chrono uber well or Mir jaunt, etc. So, I mean, yeah maybe on chrono. I really doubt Mirage would use it in pace if jaunt however. If it had no target cap I could see it being crazy good on a lord w a few using it but then each zerg would just stack bubble over bubble lol IMO (enemy over ur friendly I mean) so both I guess would get chilled in the end and it again would come down to boon conversion and condi cleanse like any other zerg situation and I think the bubble loses most of its usefullness outside its original reflects. That is I dont think it would be very useful because its easy to counter on zerg scale.

[apharma.3741]

3 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

Question to you guys: Won't it be decently useful to bring timewarp now for WVW?

 

big effects like wells and timewarp if they got anything could prob be useful as some sorta big cc effect.

Not likely for a few reasons:
Resistance exists and glamours will now give this so opposing mesmer can nullify your timewarp's effect on their team with any other glamour.
It's easy to choo choo out of, especially at 6s duration.

Cleanses are plentiful.
Gravity well boon strip spam is far better as it essentially strips and locks down up to 5 players and gets you those kills.
Other classes can give quickness on demand for spikes.

[Axl.8924]

1 hour ago, apharma.3741 said:

Not likely for a few reasons:
Resistance exists and glamours will now give this so opposing mesmer can nullify your timewarp's effect on their team with any other glamour.
It's easy to choo choo out of, especially at 6s duration.

Cleanses are plentiful.
Gravity well boon strip spam is far better as it essentially strips and locks down up to 5 players and gets you those kills.
Other classes can give quickness on demand for spikes.

 

What about buffs? such as quickness alac and other stuff from wells?
 

[apharma.3741]

44 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

 

What about buffs? such as quickness alac and other stuff from wells?
 

What about it? Nothing is really changing with wells, the final pulse effect is still a bad mechanic. Quickness nice but so is locking someone down in damage without boons. It might get play but I'm not sure it'll be more than niche given chrono current role is stripping.....yeah ANet made mesmer into strippers.

https://hardstuck.gg/gw2/builds/mesmer/support-chronomancer/

[Moradorin.6217]

It might be much better for TimeWarp to maybe boon strip instead or at least have a boon strip effect added to it when traited. Boon strip is supposed to be a Mesmer thing and this would keep it useful in wvw zergs, otherwise I think zergs will just stack and do condi conversion/cleanse like normal and then its just back to quickness for both sides and reflects. If it did boon strip of opponents on a pulse it would be a much more compelling option in pvp/wvw vs just the chill which will just get converted in any zerg.

 

But lets remember we want our 2nd dodge before that kitten matters.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Moradorin.6217

[Axl.8924]

I was hoping that something could maybe change  stuff not sure why i got confusion i was merely trying to figure out if anything changed guess not 

 

 

[Infusion.7149]

I don't think that boon rip is thematic to Time Warp and Arenanet will remake skills just to fit naming (see the terribly named Well of Senility). The superspeed added on was sort of a stretch already , obviously chill affects cooldowns and quickness / slow make sense.

The Protected Phantasms trait swap wasn't a bad one, that was hardly used. Feedback, null field, portal, and veil are all glamours and typically run in WVW. If you run inspiration with the new Temporal Enchanter (resistance, superspeed) and domination traitline (for boon rip) then you will be able to keep the boon rip aspect but have ally healing beyond just from wells.

A full WvW "support" in the overused Minstrel gear would then probably be domination, inspiration (with either restorative illusions or the new temporal enchanter), chrono with Vicious Expression for added boon rip and Illusionary Inspiration (or Blurred Inscriptions if using signets). The current meta build runs Illusions for shatter recharge reduction and ammo on Split Second (shatter skill 1) to trigger additional boon rip via Shattered Concentration in the domination line so you trade all that for superspeed and actual healing.

Utility options would then be well of eternity / signet of the ether / maybe Mantra of Recovery if the stated ally heal is large enough, null field, mantra of concentration (600 range now), veil/feedback/portal, grav well. I know people run illusion of life but unless you plan on people dying and then actually being able to get a kill or getting hard ressed in a safer spot it doesn't help.

I suspect the change to Master of Manipulation is to make the manipulation skills (such as mirror or arcane thievery) more useful in PVE as that is where party aegis would be far stronger than superspeed. That's the only explanation I can think of. The change removes the ability to use mass invis and blink for superspeed in PVP/WvW roaming scenarios. It will be interesting to see how this would compare with the alternative aegis from the inspiration line as signets can also apply aegis indirectly. Since signets and manipulations compete for spots on the utility bar perhaps chaos builds gaining access to aegis is an enabler for condi boon builds.

[Artyport.2084]

Mantras should be cooler. 
 

my example of how mantas should work.

 

mantra of distraction. For 3 second you pulse daze around you. Gain distraction after 3 pulses. Distraction: stun target 

If one of your pulses interrupts the enemy you gain. Mass distraction. Aoe stun 

[Axl.8924]

I take it then nothing positive for mes?

 

Do you guys think mirage will get second dodge back?

[Terrorhuz.4695]

Mantra changes are great. I won't elaborate further: if you think mantra of healing with 1k healing on 24s cd makes sense you shouldn't even be allowed to post. Half of the mechanics (and the cooldown) on mantras was tied to the recharging mechanic; removing this mechanic effectively deleted mantras and there's no other way to sell it. Won't throw my panties on the stage for devs artifically reducing QoL and then restoring it, but I'm still happy I have a working set of skills now, instead of shouts that somehow don't work with shouts rune.

Glamour trait is nice; WvWers will care about this. Wonderful change for time warp, which is now usable and fun. Niche, probably, but fun.

Padding changes on mirror images\decoy\shield\wells. Whatever. Wasn't using well of action before, won't use it now; the final tick could kill the entire opponent team and it wouldn't matter because it doesn't land anyway. You want people to use those wells, you need to work on what's pulsed and hits, instead of what happens on a final tick and doesn't hit.

I'm more confused about the master of manipulation trait. My only mobility tool is blink on 28s CD; now it gets 7s more cooldown and loses superspeed for... aegis? Mesmer is already a rupt\blind\block\evade\stealth fiesta; preventing stuff from hitting you has never been a problem. I don't need a trait to get aegis once every 35s, I need a trait to get the kitten out when I'm being focused! You don't like the superspeed it's fine, give me swiftness but I need that movement.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Gesbo.6420]

On 2/3/2023 at 10:53 PM, Ellon.4316 said:

> Master of Manipulation: This trait no longer reduces the recharge of manipulation skills, and it now grants aegis to nearby allies instead of superspeed.

> Protected Phantasms: This trait has been replaced by Temporal Enchanter. Temporal Enchanter causes glamour skills to grant superspeed and resistance to allies in the area and increases glamour durations by 1 second.

I have trouble placing these changes, i don't get why a stationary AoE glamours should give superspeed while the more instant cast skills of manipulation now give aegis. When i want to escape with blink or mass-invis superspeed is nice, when bunkering down with some stationary glamour skill i probably want aegis. 😕

Also master of manipulation now competes with method of madness for providing aegis (k, method of madness is random).

On a brighter note, cooldowns and chrono changes seem nice. Also got more changes then the last few balance patches combined so stuff is happening.

You can still escape with blink now you also get a agies. With mass invis you can also block a reviel. I think the change is pretty awesome. My problem is that blink and illusion of life dont get the same 20% reduction like the rest of the skills...

[Xaylin.1860]

17 hours ago, apharma.3741 said:

yeah ANet made mesmer into strippers.

I'd prefer being called an e(x)otic dancer. 😏

 

4 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

I take it then nothing positive for mes?

Let's say it this way: Most Mesmer changes, even the positive ones and buffs, probably won't matter too much or at all in the bigger picture while critical issues remain ignored.

[Xaylin.1860]

4 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I'm more confused about the master of manipulation trait. My only mobility tool is blink on 28s CD;

While I agree, Blink has been a Mesmer staple and probably is the most used Stunbreaker for the class overall. It will still be used without the CD reduction. 

[apharma.3741]

Let's say you have 9 people and give them all $10 each.
Then let's say you take $1 from 4 people and $3 from Mr M.
You then distribute this $7 to the remaining 4 people in $1 or $2 amounts.
Then later you give every person between $1 and $3.
Even if Mr M got $3 he has at best an equal amount to 4 others and at worst quite a lot less than everyone.

So yes it's positive Mr M got more money, it only puts them back to where they started while others most likely are better off.