November 28 Skills and Balance Update Preview

[Asum.4960]

On 10/26/2023 at 8:40 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Necromancer

We've also swapped the position of the Terror and Parasitic Contagion traits in the curses specialization to allow more trait selection flexibility for fear-focused condition builds.

• Terror: This trait has been moved to the grandmaster tier. Increased the base damage from 444 to 555, and increased the condition damage scaling from 0.4 to 0.55.
• Parasitic Contagion: This trait has been moved to the master tier.

I'm somewhat confused about the decision to make Terror compete with Lingering Curses (while enabling Lingering Curses + Parasitic Contagion) - and while this Patch obviously is aimed at PvP, if you want to make Terror/Fear builds even remotely a possibility in PvE, you need to look at all the mobs and bosses that are straight up CC, including Fear, immune. Things like Chaos Anomaly in the Chaos Fractal and Legendary Icebrood Construct etc., come to mind. 

It's always already been pretty annoying that Traits like Terror, Dread, Fear of Death and Shivers of Dread are straight up non-functional in such encounters. 

You already have Code in the game where for example if a target has Resistance, while they can't get Feared in terms of the CC, they still suffer the added damage from the Terror Trait to not make it terrible (at least according to the Wiki) - but against these CC immune targets, the Fear is straight up not applied in the first place, so non of these Traits can trigger. 

Additionally as I've already seen mentioned in the Thread but worth reiterating, Terror has also always been bugged to not work with Parasitic Contagion, which is supposed to make Condition Damage heal you (which further worries me that Terror has never been flagged properly as Condition Damage, and might also not benefit from any Condition Damage increases, such as for example Sigil of Bursting - something to look into). 

Also maybe add something extra to Relic of the Necromancer as a 50% movement speed reduction while Feared is pretty lacklustre considering the competition. Like a Torment Proc on Fear or something, which together with Insidious Disruption could then potentially provide an alternative damage pathway to Plague Sending + Master of Corruption + BiP. Although I suppose by making Terror compete with Lingering Curses, the Trait is pretty doomed (no pun intended) in PvE anyway with this positioning change. 

In any PvP scenario, Terror still faces the problem that Fear has just too many counters. Blocked by Stability, removed by both cleanses and stunbreaks - and even allies following up with a CC like a Daze or Stun etc. removes Fear, and all your Terror damage along with it (as far as I'm aware). It's one of the few mechanics in the game where allies can actively screw you, and will do so even accidentally constantly. 

So I think while Terror had a place as Master trait in being an added effect, I don't think highlighting it as a potential mainline build enabler (which is what GM Traits should be) is a healthy route. It's a trait that is either too weak due to too many counters, or unfun, non-interactive and unhealthy to play against.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Asum.4960

[SiEO.8430]

Very good. Very nice. 🙂

[Doggie.3184]

Give Thief Ricochet trait back please instead of leaving this incorrectly designed Deadly Aim trait in the game.

and fix this 

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Doggie.3184

[Voyant.1327]

1 hour ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

And which Chaos build was destroyed again? 

No DPS builds ever touch the reworked traits. The only thing that was truly lost was Virt's perma Stability, while everything else got a huge buff.

People who know how to build a Mesmer vs follow Meta Sites, lol.
This is a massive set back for Mesmers in so many ways, you're losing so much its hard to even begin to break it all down.

But if you can't see that from the get go, you're probably just sticking to build site recommendations to begin with, so to you it won't be noticeable.
To those of who build things on our own, this is the worst balance patch mesmers have gotten in awhile, and I'm a support Mesmer.

And that's not hate on you being that kinda player, that's totally fine.
I just remember when this team said that's not how they were going to balance, yet here we are.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Voyant.1327

[wanya.1697]

On 10/26/2023 at 8:40 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Symbol of Protection: Reduced the casting time from 0.9 seconds to 0.7 seconds.

what about Symbol of Faith on mace ? its castime is even longer and makes it very clunky to use and by the time its cast you already went by it half the way

[AViegarien.3625]

I've happy to see some effort to bring up mesmer scepter, now all we need it a bump to the Mirage Mantle ambush skill for scepter and maybe we could have a quickness mirage.

The best I've been able to do on a quickness mirage build is about 70% quickness, and that was with 100% boon duration.

[Dadnir.5038]

Did they finally go crazy?

[Yerlock.4678]

Spellbreaker has fallen behind in pvp compared to Berzerker and Blade. Buffing O/h dagger again and Featherfoot Grace would go a long way. Tbh making Featherfoot have a 20 second cd as opposed to 30 would help it in it's duelist role. Offhand dagger could get a bit more damage on the 5 skill. A slight buff to Might makes right would nudge strength spb's back into the meta and help core, and with another shave to Unshakable Mountain in BSW it would even itself out I'd say.

[zeyeti.8347]

just a question about vindicator "energy meld" : i saw the 2nd choice trait will give it a bonus , for "reaver's curse" trait it will give a bonus to your dodge 3rd selected trait for "forerunner of death" who give you +25% damage , the tooltip i saw in the stream said +25% damage , does that mean on each dodge after energy meld is used will give again +25% for the next 10 sec atop of the already +25 ? seems a bit too much, i am probably missing something.

So far good rework and updates on many classes !

[Poki.8235]

Hello, hi. PvE Thief main here. My thoughts.

I'll start by saying that I'm disapointed that the patch doesn't address Specter damage (both normal and alac) and Quickness Deadeye.

The Specter nerfs last patch were too big. Not by a huge ammount, but they were, and they disproportionatly hit Alacrity Specter. I would like to see a revert or softening of the Twilight Combo nerfs, and if you see it fit, adjusting the Torment strength trait down a bit more. This would up the Alac Specter damage, while not overbuffing dps specter, since that trait is mutually exclusive. I do think that the dps Specter nerfs were also unwarented in the last patch, but hey, I might be biased...

Secondly, Quickness Deadeye has been unusable since the One in the Chamber nerfs. This build needs a big looking into. I don't envy your situation, cause there's a ton of possible combinations to get extra Steal skills, but the build was pretty annoying what with having to spam Steal so much that there was little time to do much else.

Quote

• Vital Shot: Increased the bleeding duration from 4 seconds to 6 seconds in PvE only. 
• Shadow Strike: Increased the torment stacks from 2 to 4 in PvE only. Increased the Repeater effect duration from 4 seconds to 10 seconds in PvE, and from 4 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP and WvW. Increased the Repeater effect stacks from 1 to 3 in PvE and from 1 to 2 in PvP and WvW. The effect now causes the Repeater skill to cost one less initiative, and one stack of the effect is consumed when using Repeater. 
• Unload: Reduced the initiative cost from 5 to 3 PvE only.

Some surprising pistol changes. Not sure what to make of the condi buffs here, since using Shadow Strike on a boss is really miserable with the forced movement (and forcing it to cancel by jumping is even worse!) so I don't want it to become the "best" Thief condi build because of that....

Didn't think Unload needed buffs since it can already be infinitely spammed, but ok. Will be good in Open World builds when enemies die prematurely and stuff.

Quote

• 
  
• Bountiful Theft: This trait now grants additional might to allies when stealing from a target with no boons.

Good. Might be some weird interaction there, if you're counting on that might and then you're not getting it cause the enemy keeps having, let's say, protection and not might so part of me wants the might to just be a permanent fixture instead of being conditional, but Bountiful Thief is already pretty freaking strong for it's intended use case so idk if that's on the cards.

Quote

• Haste: Reduced the cooldown from 24 seconds to 20 seconds in PvE and from 35 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Blinding Powder: Reduced the cooldown from 40 seconds to 20 seconds in PvE only.

Good to see buffing to underused Utilities, of which thief has MANY, but Haste is still pretty worthless (6 seconds of self quickness).

Quote

Daredevil

• Punishing Strikes: This skill no longer reflects projectiles.
• Debilitating Arc: This skill now grants access to Helmet Breaker for a duration of time.
• Helmet Breaker: Leap at your foe, dealing damage and inflicting the dazed effect.
• Dust Strike: This skill now reflects projectiles and strikes foes in a circular area instead of in a frontal cone.
• Impact Strike: This skill now evades attacks. Increased the cooldown from 25 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW.

Very nice changes here. Staff 3 and 4 were a real joke and this is a great change. Giving specific utility to the skills so every one has a specific intended use case is the way thief weapons skills have to be designed. Having 3 be a CC (with something to counteract the backflip) and 4 be a reflect is great! Full props here. I just hope Dust Strike reflect isn't so low in duration that it's hard to use.

[aymnad.9023]

In general I notice a lot of small push for some off support or support builds for professions missing it. It could be a sign of upcoming weapons or just some design choices.

Ele: Good updates. Cata having access to a permanent buff and not just one on / off sounds both good and a bit scary (need to see in PvP). I do appreciate that you are trying to allow more weapon variety.

Engie : Good changes but I expected holo PvP update. Right now PvP holo damage seems really off but I do not see any changes. I find the changes for rifle and pushing support in PvE interesting. Bandage blast change is really good. Applied force is bit crazy. Mech changes are also good.

Guard : Unhealthy because they are too overloaded. Hammer without any coefficient decrease is going to be bad for PvP even if it is not meta! The same playstyle saw its power decreased on rev then it was even removed from ranger and now there is a higher baseline coeff for guard with faster blinks? For dh I am always unsure how increased defense will really go when there are ways to deal unblockable os. FB : ashes of the just is too loaded, it probably should have been put somewhere else.

Mesmer : I am not experienced enough to comment about support / tank mesmer in all game mode but I will watch out for it. If I understand axe clones auto will be buffed? Malicious sorcery looks scary but I guess it has to compete with other traits. No changes for dagger mirage? The daze spam even behind is unfun to fight 😕 No changes to virtuoso unblockable. 

Necro : Welcome changes in PvP. I wonder how much sustain or damage you will get from the trait swap. The rest looks ok.

Ranger : Pet love yeaaahhhhhh!! It is nice to see so many adjustments. Obviously not all are going to be great (not sure that spiders / devourers are that much better), some did not get much (fire wyvern) but seeing so many changes makes me happy. Big winners for me : birds and drakes (especially slb). I am curious about some moa changes and lots people are immediately going to play hyena. Smokescale is sad 😕 but the damage looks good. Probably a typo for  “Increased the power coefficient from 0.7 to 0.1 in PvE “ cause it reads like a decrease instead 😄. New field and no more gazelle rocketing away.

Rev : Mixt feelings. I will let people playing rev comment about hammer. Shield supporting is nice. Shortbow piercing is scary. I did not know about the small cc window but perma stab in PvP is not really healthy anyway and while the vindi changes look interesting it is never going to be fun to fight a boosted dodge when builds have os potential.

Thief : Looks good except unload. Encouraging the pistol spam (unload) is bad. It refreshes itself, deals good mid range damage and requires 0 efforts. This is precisely what you should be avoiding in the game. Nice changes to staff. Specter is already meta in PvP team compositions so we need to see.

Warrior : I like those changes for PvP but am expecting PvE nerfs. Mace buffs is ok for PvE, I would not want stun + dmg in PvP. Signet is fine. Arms could be good. I have been trying to add damage with strength in PvP and all the changes could help a lot. However I think in PvE the numbers could become to high. No changes for Bladesworn unblock too. Maybe staff will be support with the heal increase.

 

Relics : Some good change but I found some like herald already good (I played it for condi alac tempest).

New relics : They look good!

• Nayos : could be good for some builds
• Febe : really good for PvP
• Karakosa : situational
• Nourys : could be crazy depending on the values. Maybe for a condi reaper
• Midnight King : Ok
• Queen : poison effectiveness could be too strong in PvP / WvW.

Edited October 28, 2023 by aymnad.9023

[Player.2475]

I'm glad to see the updates on ranger pets and the fact that Rev hammer will now be viable for supports as an on-demand aegis. It's a shame that untamed did not get any touch ups that may make them better as a support or bring their damage more in line with other specs.

[Arianth Moonlight.6453]

Necromancer

• Well of Blood: Increased the base pulse healing from 280 to 496 in PvP and WvW.

meh.

• Life Transfer: This skill now also inflicts bleeding when striking an enemy.

sweet tears of thief's blood 😁

• Signet of Vampirism: Increased the base active healing from 4,950 to 5,750. Increased base active life-steal healing from 470 to 600.

meh.

• Plague Signet: Reduced the cooldown from 35 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP and WvW. Reduced the number of conditions transferred from 4 to 3 in PvP and WvW.

meh.

• Well of Power: Reduced the cooldown from 40 seconds to 35 seconds in PvP and WvW.

hmm... OK, I guess.

• Terror: This trait has been moved to the grandmaster tier. Increased the base damage from 444 to 555, and increased the condition damage scaling from 0.4 to 0.55.

noise!

• Parasitic Contagion: This trait has been moved to the master tier.

nice!

• Master of Corruption: This trait now applies vulnerability instead of blindness when using Consume Conditions.

meh

• Soul Comprehension: This trait now also grants life force upon entering a shroud form based on the number of active Death's Carapace stacks.

interesting.

• Deadly Strength: This trait now also grants condition damage per stack of Death's Carapace.

noise!

Reaper

• Augury of Death: Increased the base life-steal damage from 138 to 172. Increased the life-steal power coefficient from 0.01 to 0.0125.  Increased the base life-steal healing from 125 to 156. Increased the life-steal healing coefficient from 0.02 to 0.025.

nice!

• Blighter's Boon: This trait now always heals and grants life force regardless of whether the necromancer is in a shroud form. Reduced the base healing from 197 to 85.

meh x2.

[Tokizo.8917]

1 hour ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

just a question about vindicator "energy meld" : i saw the 2nd choice trait will give it a bonus , for "reaver's curse" trait it will give a bonus to your dodge 3rd selected trait for "forerunner of death" who give you +25% damage , the tooltip i saw in the stream said +25% damage , does that mean on each dodge after energy meld is used will give again +25% for the next 10 sec atop of the already +25 ? seems a bit too much, i am probably missing something.

So far good rework and updates on many classes !

Hi. No, it will only increase the damage of the next dodge. So just 1 dodge. 25% base damage increase and 25% additional 25% if you are using forerunner. Also the cooldown will be 16s seconds for energy meld instead of 20s:

https://imgbb.com/Z1s98st

[Arrow Blade of El Elyon.9341]

Please respond to the issues that have been identified with rangers F2 skills.

Ever since the engineers mech changes this has adversely affected Rangers F2 responsiveness.

There are currently two main threads which highlight the issues;

 

[Assassine.1958]

On 10/26/2023 at 8:40 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Guardian

Support-focused firebrand is receiving a few smaller improvements in PvP to make it a competitive pick. We've also tuned up a few of guardian's defensive tools alongside some improvements to the hammer, including additional burst damage potential with Banish now refreshing Mighty Blow when striking an enemy.

• Symbol of Protection: Reduced the casting time from 0.9 seconds to 0.7 seconds.
• Zealot's Embrace: Reduced the casting time from 1.2 seconds to 0.94 seconds. Increased the additional-hit barrier from 225 to 625. Increased the power coefficient from 1.5 to 2.25 in PvE only.
• Banish: This skill now recharges Mighty Blow when striking an enemy. Increased the number of targets from 1 to 3.
• Strength in Numbers: This trait has been reworked and renamed Redemption. Cast Lesser Litany of Wrath when you use virtue skill 3. Lesser Litany of Wrath lasts for 3 seconds.
• Might of the Protector: Increased the might duration from 6 seconds to 9 seconds in PvP and WvW.

Not so much to saying about this. Could be good, but I think you should change some more stuff on hammer like hammer#5. Maybe changing that in PVE for Breakbar-Dmg and in PvP kinda missle absorb for a short duration - could be helpful to dealing against pew pew classes.

 

On 10/26/2023 at 8:40 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Dragonhunter

• Shield of Courage: Reduced the cooldown from 50 seconds to 45 seconds.
• Piercing Light: This trait has been reworked and renamed Hunter's Premonition. Gain aegis when you use a trap skill.
• Defender's Dogma: This trait now also grants 180 vitality.
• Pure of Sight: Increased the minimum damage bonus from 5% to 10% in PvP only.

Cooldown reduction on F3 is good. Aegis on traps can be good (idk yet). More vitality could be useful, but I think its not as that good as it sounds.

 

On 10/26/2023 at 8:40 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Firebrand

• Loremaster: Decreased the page generation interval from 6 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only.
• Swift Scholar: This trait no longer has an internal cooldown. Increased the quickness duration from 1.5 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Chapter 1: Searing Spell: Increased vulnerability stacks from 2 to 4 in PvP only.
• Ashes of the Just: This skill now also applies 5 stacks of might to nearby allies for 8 seconds.
• Chapter 2: Daring Challenge: Increased the cooldown from 8 seconds to 15 seconds and reduced the page cost from 2 to 1 in PvP only.

I'll keep it short. These changed won't make it even better or viable in pvp! I think you should more focus on making the axe a better weapon in pvp - I mean 12sec cd on the #2 Axe Skill (Symbol) is way too much cooldown. Since the symbol-trait from the honor-traitline got nerfed (no bigger symbols anymore) - axe isnt broken anymore. And honestly if a player is unable to dodge an 1sec casting time of an attack (3/4sec with quickness) shouldn't play pvp in my opinion! 

Firebrand has good support, but it weakens in dealing with pressure. Instead of changing some "stuff" - You should consider to rework some cooldowns, or healing (base-healings). Like Mantra of Solace (more Heal) - I mean what is this ~200 Heal with one aegis (on first two charges), which you loose instantly. If u want to use that Healing Skill u are forced to take the "Pure of Heart" trait in Honor-Traitline.

 

On 10/26/2023 at 8:40 PM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Willbender

• Conceited Curate: This trait now grants 180 vitality instead of healing power.
• Roiling Light: This skill now grants resistance instead of swiftness.

Not really necessary changes except the Roiling Light. For Willbender I want to see more reworks and changes on physic-skills - maybe add offensive boons to them or lower aftercasts?

 

Like in every "balance" patch - I feel you don't focus on the important issues in several gamemodes especially in PvP.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Assassine.1958

[zeyeti.8347]

20 minutes ago, Tokizo.8917 said:

Hi. No, it will only increase the damage of the next dodge. So just 1 dodge. 25% base damage increase and 25% additional 25% if you are using forerunner. Also the cooldown will be 16s seconds for energy meld instead of 20s:

https://imgbb.com/Z1s98st

ah only damage for the next dodge , not increase effectiveness of forerunner. Would be broken if it was the case ...

Ty mate

Pretty cool rework of energy meld anyway.

Edited October 28, 2023 by zeyeti.8347

[Convet.2605]

Can I query about underwater pets and HoM pets? I don't see any note about Black Moa or Black Widow having changes. No Jellyfish have changes including Rainbow Jellyfish.

 

Was the HoM pets forgotten or just their attacks are generic? 

 

Was underwater pets ignored for being underwater only?

[Kuma.1503]

Good patch, but why exactly is Mechanist getting more nerfs in PvP? It's already one of the easiest elite specs to bully thanks to a lack of cleanses, mobility, and stunbreaks. 

Ranger currently does it's job but better, and it's getting buffed?

[Camniel.7238]

Coalescence of Ruin: OH THANK GOD

[T G.7496]

"a bit less punishing to fall out of berserk mode"

"punishing to fall out of berserk mode"

great design principle

[Urud.4925]

Blowntorch: 

September 26, 2023: Reduced burning stacks from 4 to 3 in PvE only.

November 28, 2023: Increased the minimum power coefficient from 0.33 to 1.0 in PvE only. Increased the maximum power coefficient from 1.0 to 2.0 in PvE only.

It's nice to see a clear idea of what to do at every skill update.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Not much in there for me as Tempest. I hoped for some defensive buffs after the obliteration of Stone Heart and the removal of +10% maximum health on the runeset I use. (Divinity)

[Nimris.3781]

so many changes for ranger pets, yet almost 0 changes for soulbeast merge skills.

just to remind you, soulbeast is one of 3 ranger specs and we would appreciate some changes for merge skills as well. unless you want us to remain stuck with 6 usefull pets ( 2 for condi, 2 for power and 2 for pvp...)

[Alcatraznc.3869]

As far as Engineer goes :

 

-The Elixir buff are....ok I suppose.

-Off hand pistol change are actually pretty good

-I havent played enough Scrapper support to know how these change will eventually perform.

-Rifle ""buff"" are totally irrelevant. The weapon for PvE is still mediocre at best and for PvP/WvW it remains complete trash

-The Mechanist interaction with relic is good. The nerf for PvP...Not so good. The mechanical genius change doesnt mean anything until a proper value is given.

 

Overall... Let's just say if the off hand pistol change is what really seems interesting here. I'll let people playing support scrapper have their own opinion on these changes but for me this patch is just forgettable.