Why not housing?

[Ayakaru.6583]

Opposite of 'why not housing?'Is 'why housing?'What would it add to the game beside being niche for role-playing?

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

@"Ayakaru.6583" said:Opposite of 'why not housing?'Is 'why housing?'What would it add to the game beside being niche for role-playing?

Well, I suspect the "trophy display collecting" thing suggested earlier would probably catch me. I mean, I didn't think the cat collections would, and now I'm wondering how to get my hands on the expensive fractal cat, so.....

[Palador.2170]

@"MarshallLaw.9260" said:I sincerely hope ANet don't waste their resources on player housing. Many people barely visit their home instance apart from the daily farm and the Guild Hall is a far better alternative for a gold sink with decorations..Yes this topic rears it's head every now and again, but it's a small minority who "desperately" want this function and the best argument most put forward is - "well other games had it, why not GW2?" which is always a weak line.

I'd like to address a couple of your points, if I may?

First, the guild hall is an AWFUL system for the majority of players to play with. The very way it's set up means that only a minority of players ever get to put it to any real use. Small guild? Little to no resources to decorate with. Big guild? You have to share, either only a couple of members get to decorate or every time you turn around someone's undone anything you've made. Add in the high costs of scribing and how hard it is to level that skill, and ANet made a system that actually discourages the majority of people from trying to decorate.

As for the "small minority"? Well, the same could be said about raids. Or those that wanted mounts. And ANet spent months working on animated armor for only the most dedicated raiders, a minority of a minority. ANet is willing to take a "minority wants" idea and run with it, if they can find a way to make it their own. (Mind you, it doesn't always work out for the best, but they're willing to try.)

Now, you're right when you say that they may not see much use beyond that minority... IF they just do the standard "here's a house" thing. But this is ANet, and while I don't always like their choices I think we can all agree that they prefer to not put anything in unless they can find a way to make it their own take on an idea. I wouldn't expect just a house from them.

Personally, I'd like to see them make a small guild hall and personal house for The Commander. Just one per account, not one per character, that you can decorate mostly as you see fit. Then, they could have some parts of the story return there every now and then, making it Dragons Watch home base. Have you ever realized that, aside from the noble path humans, no version of the Commander actually has a home of their own? They have a bunk, or a bed in a communal area, or maybe even just sleep in the gutters. Story-wise, that makes no sense any more. They could fix a plot point, introduce a home base for Dragons Watch, and let us get our decorating fix all with one stone.

[juhani.5361]

@"Faline.8795" said:Games that rely on cash shop income are always looking for new ways to generate revenue. I don't see how housing wouldn't be a cash bonanza considering how many people like housing.

It's like printing cash. I've been amazed at how much people who love housing will spend on cash shop decorations, let alone a desirable cash shop housing instance. I can't remember how much the Glenumbra castle/keep goes for in real cash in ESO's shop, but it's more expensive in the "gem" currency than some of the DLC. Deco crates go for a mint in SWTOR's shop. Heck, stuff placed in various games' auction houses costs a lot in gold. With cash/gem/gold conversions like GW2 has, it's possible that real currency could be generated from allowing decos to be crafted in-game.

@SlippyCheeze.5483 said:

@"Ayakaru.6583" said:Opposite of 'why not housing?'Is 'why housing?'What would it add to the game beside being niche for role-playing?

Well, I suspect the "trophy display collecting" thing suggested earlier would probably catch me. I mean, I didn't think the cat collections would, and now I'm wondering how to get my hands on the expensive fractal cat, so.....

I know exactly what you mean about cats. The chair collection, and the 10 rats memorial quest got me. Mounts are addictive too. I'm always surprised by how Anet can make strange things a ton of fun. A good housing system could still catch me, and I tend to personally hate MMO housing.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:Housing would end up exactly like the guild hall: a giant money pit with nothing convenient in it.

the whole game is a money pit. Problem with Guild Halls is that you have to be in a Guild to even use them and normally have to be a high rank to even be able to do any decorations. This is why I never used the feature because I dont spend my free time on Guild Politics. I want to have fun. Not be limited by a flawed feature like that. Imagine if WvW was only useable if you are in a Guild and one of the top members of that guild. Nobody would play it. Terrible design and not player housing as most people have requested.

you can create guild on your own. 1-man guilds are a thing and better yet 1-man guilds WITH Guild Halls are as well.

and well if you want to actually mean anything in wvw you'd likely need to be in a guild that has war room properly researched.....

don't get me wrong I'm as neutral in regard to individual player housing that is not home instance as it can get, I am just straightening out what seems to me to be misconception in your argument here ;)

EDIT: on a second thought being able to get your very own realm in the mists totally not ripping ideas from certain mmo out there could be fun.....

altho convincing explanation for lore nerdies like myself for players being given this supposefully god-tier magic without additional repercussions on tyria could pose a challenge ;)

[Feanor.2358]

@"Faline.8795" said:Given that one of the questions that gets asked a lot is "What is there to do at endgame," I've always wondered why housing hasn't been implemented.

A lot of people seem to like it, it's certainly something to grind for.

Is the community here against housing? Is ANet? Is the engine not capable?

Seems to me like a feature for future expansion. Maybe even the next one.

[Cyrin.1035]

@"Obtena.7952" said:Showing off you personal space to your friends has little to do with promoting the larger community as an MMO themed game. If you want to 'hang' with a select group of people, Anet has already created those areas.

This is incorrect and typical of those biased towards certain content, to consolidate the desires of others into already existing content that does not meet what players are requesting, in order to discredit and dismiss. To accurately comment on a feature, you have to actually know what it is and consider what it could feasibly be in GW 2.

GW works in guilds, groups, and parties. That's how the game was designed. Other than open world content, it remains built around groups and those groups collectively make up the game's content. When you are not in a group, which describes MANY players, the solo experience of such content is even greater. The game you are talking about is not GW 2. Perhaps some other MMO or a version of GW 2 that you want it to be that does not exist.

Housing promotes further player interaction with what is currently available by inciting the individual player to build their own area for the purpose of sharing it or their journey with others. Just as those who collect nodes for the home instance love to invite others into their home. However with housing, now players have a reason to stay or create their own space and spend more time with others. That doesn't mean you have to spend all your time in your housing instance. It's a base of operations and a hub to come back to. Enhancing it gives reason to leave it and ultimately could enhance your entire account.

Like WS, there can be a network or "neighborhood" system organized like the LFG panel where players openly invite others to visit their instance. In these instances players can do the things they enjoy such as aesthetic customization for both their property and character, guild/group parties, PvP, mini-games, RPing, jumping puzzles, gardening, raising pets or mounts from birth and customizing their development, crafting, mastery training, earning items that can be used to shape your instance, upgrading your items in some way - possibly naming them officially or dyeing them, leveling your instance for more options and benefits, upgrading you mounts in some way, new ways to earn currency, the possibilities are endless.

Now, all that work you do in the open world, in the other game modes, in all content of the game, can amount to something more tangible. How do those in the real world who are successful show what they have achieved? They live in the houses of their design with all the things they personally enjoy. They are surrounded by their accomplishments. Even if you don't spend much time around your housing instance and don't care for material representation, it can be freely visited by others to see what you have accomplished, like a mini-museum of your journey.

If Anet wants to introduce cool mini-games and activities, they don't need to have personal, customized housing to do it.

And they don't need to tie scavenger hunts and alternate gaming modes to legendary crafting, but they do so because it enhances and extends the experience of that content. Using housing, a prime type of endgame, especially for GW 2 to connect other features and content (such as PvP/WvW, mini-games, activities, aesthetic design, masteries, etc), would create a stronger and tighter global experience in the game for all players of all modes. Nothing brings players together more than a common, universal goal.

The point isn't to discuss what housing COULD be, the discussion is if it adds value to the game as a whole.

The point of the discussion is what the OP created it to be. A question of why housing hasn't been implemented in the game yet. An answer is that it is still being developed and designed in a way that gives long-term endgame, enhances other features of the game, and fits the actual function of the game in which rewards, story, and other elements connect to it. If the new feature accomplishes all of that, it will most certainly add a type of "value" to the game that no guild hall, single game mode, or crafting journey could accomplish.

If you don't know what housing is or could be, then what are you judging its value on? Players that like to use the word "value" are usually judging it based on what they personally feel is value and not what value is in general. Value is not something you define for others nor does anyone have the credibility to claim whether it's "necessary" or not in a game for many.

Now, if I could attack your house, and you could attack my house, and we could get our friends to help defend/attack, THEN you might have some wider gameplay value in personal housing. Right now, the kind of housing being proposed is just a lot of homemaker garbage ... where do I put my table, what kind of plant do I want in the corner, where do I put my trophies, how many chairs do I need to seat all my friends when they visit. You know this game is on it's last leg if we get housing like that.

Now you are seeing the possibilities for the housing endgame. Perhaps if you put more effort and focus on improving the design and implementation of housing, for players like you and others, it can be an even more satisfying endgame for all.

I don't think you know what a game "on it's last leg" is if you consider a new and major feature like housing to be a sign of a failing game.

That "homemaker garbage" is what many players enjoy. Just as many players in GW 2 like aesthetics and enjoy GW 2's intended aesthetic endgame. If everything has to be turned into a PvP or competitive form in order for you to consider or support it, then your opinion on this topic loses even more credibility and relevance.

[TheGrimm.5624]

Not interested in housing for the sake of housing. Unless housing adds value to the account then I think I would prefer resources for this be spent elsewhere. I am in favor of in game material syncs to keep the economy healthy but it has to add value. Now if for every cabinet I build I gain one bank spot, each garden produces something to harvest and such than that might be a different story.

[mortrialus.3062]

I kind of like the idea of housing but I'm not sure the best way to handle it.

It shouldn't be tied to the home instance. It should be in an area where you can freely see other people's houses.

I dabbled a bit with Player Housing in Aion and it was kind of interesting. What I liked most about it was that all housing was in one big zone dedicated to that. When you had a house, you actually had real estate that you bought with in game currency and there was property tax to keep it and housing was limited. So the housing zone felt like an actual residential district. It was also cool because you could freely walk into other people's homes and see how they decorated everything.

If they could replicate a system like that, while dealing with a system like that's inherent conflicts that allows players to somehow create residential areas with player housing while handling things like mega servers, and GW2's more casual leanings I could see player housing being a fun addition. But if it's just something getting tossed in your home instance where you'll almost never see other player's housing I'd be super boring.

[Cyrin.1035]

@"mindcircus.1506" said:

"important to a small number of players""doesnt tend to drive massive sales or long term engagement"

Statistical and credible evidence? Or assumptive, biased opinion?

"If it did, everyone would be playing Wildstar."

Large leap of logic. Do a bit more research, learn the actual factors around WS, then make more accurate statements.

[Elva.6372]

Like mounts, GW2 doesn't need housing.

/jk

I think ANet is going to push the Home instance in that direction. It would be the obvious method of getting custom housing into the game.

[ugrakarma.9416]

i find home instances very boring. I did not want much, just something that made home instances more meaningful and less tedious.

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

I would prefer Anet put their development efforts in places other than housing.

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

@Cyrin.1035 said:

@"mindcircus.1506" said:

"If it did, everyone would be playing Wildstar."

Large leap of logic. Do a bit more research, learn the actual factors around WS, then make more accurate statements.

Agreed. The most we can say here is "player housing in WS was not sufficient to stop players leaving", which is a much more limited position.

[Obtena.7952]

@"TheGrimm.5624" said:Not interested in housing for the sake of housing. Unless housing adds value to the account then I think I would prefer resources for this be spent elsewhere. I am in favor of in game material syncs to keep the economy healthy but it has to add value. Now if for every cabinet I build I gain one bank spot, each garden produces something to harvest and such than that might be a different story.

Exactly. Housing as you see in traditional MMO's ... is a plea to stay. it says "we can't come up with more meaningful content in the MMO context, so here is some single player fluff you can sit by yourself and live your dying MMO years in ... and collect furniture for". The fact remains that we have a 'house' personalized with nodes, cats, growing spots, etc ... and that does satisfy the requirements of 'housing' in this game.

[CJH.2879]

Personally I can only see players having a more immersive experience in GW2 with the introduction of a customized house. I am certain alot of people will want to show there fellow guildies or friends online what they have created & if handled correctly, every house could be visited (if open to the public). You can also show off your trophy's you've collected from throughout the world (entirely up to you).

I don't see player housing as single player content at all... I myself consider single player content only that in itself if only just you (the player) can experience it & nobody else! But with player housing open to the public, guildies & friends, I don't see it that way at all. allow me to further explain this>> as others have said it will only encourage you + your friends/guildies to venture forth into Tyria even more so to grab reward items from specific areas (maps), bosses or even along reward tracks in wvw (Items for which could be specifically for your home).

This in turn would indeed encourage players to goto specific places & participate in more world events (even more so then before) & work together for the chance at getting something for there customized house. Also lastly I've never seen the "home instance" as a customized house or even a "house" for that matter.... they are both 2 completely different things. One you can put your personal touch on, the other you cannot.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

@"Cyrin.1035" said:The point of the discussion is what the OP created it to be. A question of why housing hasn't been implemented in the game yet. An answer is that it is still being developed and designed in a way that gives long-term endgame, enhances other features of the game, and fits the actual function of the game in which rewards, story, and other elements connect to it.

small correction here: proper answer to the question of why housing (other than home instance which was promoted back in the days as suposefully GW2 version of housing ;) ) hasn't been implemented in the game yet is: we do not know.

everything beyond that is pure speculation unless you can give some dev quotations I missed. but as far as I am aware last ention of devson the topic was pretty much "home instances are supposed to fill that role"

[Brother Dulfite.5793]

As a lifelong fan of Animal Crossing, I've wanted my MMO's to have very custom housing experiences for years, yet Anet continues to not put it in this game. There are so many additions to this game that I enjoy, many of which I wouldn't mind having not had if it meant I had housing. Would I sacrifice mounts for housing? No. But gliding? Yes, for example.

[Knighthonor.4061]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Housing is a rather stupid MMO mechanic if you think about it. I get that some people like it, but it doesn't really fit into the theme of the game. based on Anet's atypical approach to design and implementation, I think the 'House' you want isn't going to happen and the 'House' you are going to get is already here in the home instance.

I dont understand what you are saying. whats the theme of the game that housing system doesnt fit? and whats stupid about it as you say? also is the current housing instances in the game better feature than what most people that do want player housing are requesting?

The theme of 'playing with other people'. Sitting in a home instance is the opposite of what an MMO is about.

pretty much all MMOs now days have Instances of some kind. Hence Story Missions. That never took away from the fact its still a MMO. So I dont understand your argument.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

@"Brother.1504" said:Isn’t our home instance player housing?

No. You don't have a house, you can't decorate / furnish it. The home instance is just what the name is: An instance for your personal story with personal NPCs and some extras like gathering nodes. Sure, the home instance could be made into player housing, but then at least a fully furnishable personal house should be added.

Player housing could look like this: (LotRO)

You can choose a city/neighborhood, a street, different house types and prices and fully decorate your house and allowing if others can visit your house or if you want to lock everything up. For Guild Wars 2, player housing could also include something like the Hall of Monuments in GW1, to show off personal collections (weapons, armor, minipets, achievements) in a museum-like display.

[deadsyeren.9583]

I agree on housing, I used to love how Rift implemented it. Gave you more to farm & craft. It was always something I hoped they would do here to be honest.

[CJH.2879]

@"TheQuickFox.3826" said:

Player housing could look like this: (LotRO)

You can choose a city/neighborhood, a street, different house types and prices and fully decorate your house and allowing if others can visit your house or if you want to lock everything up. For Guild Wars 2, player housing could also include something like the Hall of Monuments in GW1, to show off personal collections (weapons, armor, minipets, achievements) in a museum-like display.

OMG, I love it... this just illustrates what could be possible in GW2 (but done even better)... also I would like to ask, is there any chance a ANET representative or developer could make a quick comment in this topic to hint one way or another if player housing is something they are considering looking into any time soon?

[Brother.1504]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"TheGrimm.5624" said:Not interested in housing for the sake of housing. Unless housing adds value to the account then I think I would prefer resources for this be spent elsewhere. I am in favor of in game material syncs to keep the economy healthy but it has to add value. Now if for every cabinet I build I gain one bank spot, each garden produces something to harvest and such than that might be a different story.

Exactly. Housing as you see in traditional MMO's ... is a plea to stay. it says "we can't come up with more meaningful content in the MMO context, so here is some single player fluff you can sit by yourself and live your dying MMO years in ... and collect furniture for". The fact remains that we have a 'house' personalized with nodes, cats, growing spots, etc ... and that does satisfy the requirements of 'housing' in this game.

The argument for a extremely customizable personalized space in an mmo has some weight. Even if it’s just rp simwars2. I personally would like the gw2 Eye of the North space developed. A trophy room. Visible, displayable, customizable, trophy room. To this day I still consider the gw1 Eye of the North to be some of the most inspired game design.

[Lambent.6375]

If they make housing into public zones like daoc, it can take fashion wars to a whole new level.

Keeping up with the Jones's wars.

[Obtena.7952]

@Brother.1504 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"TheGrimm.5624" said:Not interested in housing for the sake of housing. Unless housing adds value to the account then I think I would prefer resources for this be spent elsewhere. I am in favor of in game material syncs to keep the economy healthy but it has to add value. Now if for every cabinet I build I gain one bank spot, each garden produces something to harvest and such than that might be a different story.

Exactly. Housing as you see in traditional MMO's ... is a plea to stay. it says "we can't come up with more meaningful content in the MMO context, so here is some single player fluff you can sit by yourself and live your dying MMO years in ... and collect furniture for". The fact remains that we have a 'house' personalized with nodes, cats, growing spots, etc ... and that does satisfy the requirements of 'housing' in this game.

The argument for a extremely customizable personalized space in an mmo has some weight. Even if it’s just rp simwars2. I personally would like the gw2 Eye of the North space developed. A trophy room. Visible, displayable, customizable, trophy room. To this day I still consider the gw1 Eye of the North to be some of the most inspired game design.

Sure, and we have that ... the current home instance configuration is already to take on something like a trophy room if Anet wanted to do so.

What I'm talking about is activities that are fundamentally based on single player play that are introduced into an MMO part way through it's life .. .like "Oh, I killed a boss mob and it dropped furniture for my single player home" (which is pretty nonsensical if you think about it). The traditional MMO approach to housing is very single player oriented, and it's a big fail; it screams they took the easy way out for MMO content. Promoting single player play in these traditional home instance implementations isn't not how community and larger scale player interactions are promoted in an MMO.