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Will Black Lion Chests be forbidden in the USA?

Erasculio.2914
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Charrbeque.8729

Charrbeque.8729

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@"Erasculio.2914" said:A U.S. Senator has introduced a bill to ban loot boxes and "pay-to-win" microtransactions.

While the "pay-to-win" ban probably wouldn't have any impact on Guild Wars 2, the Black Lion Chests are loot boxes, so they would be forbidden if this bill passes.

What do you think will happen?

What do I think will happen? Absolutely nothing.

From the article you linked:

UPDATE (12:18pm): The Entertainment Software Association, the video game industry lobbyist group, sent over a statement shortly after this bill was introduced: “Numerous countries, including Ireland, Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom, determined that loot boxes do not constitute gambling. We look forward to sharing with the senator the tools and information the industry already provides that keeps the control of in-game spending in parents’ hands. Parents already have the ability to limit or prohibit in-game purchases with easy to use parental controls.”

Lobbyists own Washington. What they want, they get. The bill is already dead in the water and won't go anywhere.

Besides, Hawaii already tried this last year, introducing legislation to regulate loot boxes in video games. It wound up going nowhere.

https://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/2018/03/24/hawaii-news/loot-box-bills-fail-to-advance/

One of the House bills — HB 2686, which would have prohibited the sale of video games containing loot boxes to people younger than 21 — failed to move past a single committee in the House, and was killed by the end of January.A corresponding bill in the Senate, SB 3024, successfully crossed over into the House in early March, but likewise passed no committees after that.The other House bill, HB 2727, would have required game publishers to disclose the probabilities for each random item received in loot boxes, as well as to display a label on a game’s packaging warning about the presence of in-game purchases. That bill crossed over into the Senate and stagnated, failing to pass any further committees.Senate Bill 3025, meanwhile, originally was a companion bill to HB 2727. However, the House Committee on Consumer Protection and Commerce amended the bill earlier this month to remove all aspects of its previous text and replace it with a requirement for franchisees to disclose if they are not participating in promotions of the franchise — for example, if a Hawaii location of a fast-food restaurant chain were not included in a nationally advertised deal.That bill was passed by all committees in both chambers and will face a final vote in the House.

Basically, the whole thing was amended to something that had nothing at all to do with regulating loot boxes in video games.

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ArchonWing.9480

ArchonWing.9480

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It wouldn't be forbidden; Anet would just have to verify age (not a minor). And it probably wouldn't pass; lots of bills get introduced.

It sounds like a huge waste of time. I agree with...

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:Its pretty simple. Every online purchase gambling or not is made with a credit card. You cannot apply for a credit card unless you are 18, because a credit card purchase is a contract. A minor cannot enter into a contract. Therefore anytime a kid uses their parents credit card to do any online microtransaction. It's either 100% with the parents consent or the transaction is void and using the card without permission is theft and fraud.

So parents watch your kids. Or put blocks on your kids cell phones and PC with a password that blocks all online purchases and keep your cards in a safe place.

Case closed.

Parents giving their children free reign over their credit cards sounds like a bigger issue....

The problem with the think of the children thing is that it's disingenuously being made into more broader terms. They don't just want to protect kids from loot boxes; they just want to get rid of it all together. And that line of thought is present here too.

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otto.5684

otto.5684

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@"GDchiaScrub.3241" said:Either way. Government intervention (instead of better parental over site...) will get messy.

D:

I do not understand why people keep bringing parental oversight. I could use this fail ass logic in anything. Drinking, smoking, gambling, etc... all have age restrictions in the US. Should we instead use parental control?!!

@yann.1946 said:

@otto.5684 said:I think sooner or later, they will tag a 21 years old on loot boxes. Games should stay away from gambling and just sell the cosmetics directly with no RNG.

Sadly If they approve what you're saying, it could lead to the elimination of all rng in all games, thus eliminating rng drops from mobs and thus ruining the enjoyment of finding treasure and the enjoyment of the game itself. Technically everything in the game is chance, and time spent rolling on those chances of getting good treasure or loot. Since Time is money, elimination of all rng is essentially the argument you're making.

Let’s not get bananas shall we? No reason for this kitten “oh no they well destroy the game.” Clearly this is about micro transactions, specifically randomized loot boxes purchasable with either real money or in game currency directly purchasable with money.

The game shop will be much better if loot boxes were removed.

this will destroy a ton of games, not just GW2, I don't understand why anyone wants this. Why don't parents just watch their children and the problem is solved?

If games are designed to be gambling outlets, to manipulate people to spend more money, then by all means, they can be destroyed.

If the game is to have gambling, gambling rules should apply.

It's not only about lootboxes tho. Take the two in game currency based gambling systems in the game.
  • ectogambling
  • lootbags.

I think people who are against gambling would agree that the first one is bad while the second is acceptable but how does one draw the line their?

It is not really. In GW2 it is black lion chests. Everything else is fair game. In most games as well it is not complicated science to know what is the equivalent of real life gambling and what is not. People claim it is difficult, then impossible to do. It is neither nor.

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Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

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Imagine a hypotethical scenario...

EA publishes a game called "Arena of Chance" made by some studio they purchased two years ago that's now shut down, it doesnt matter which.

It's just a virtual hotel with slotlike machines, card tables, fun small games, hell even a bouncer world boss. Full DX12 visual glory, raytracing, VR support, godrays from every slotmachine. Players buy currency to use in the minigames and have a chance to win some back. Some can even level up to get into the upper floor VIP lounges where higher level gaming is taking place and you can chance higher numbers for higher wins, or they can of course pay for boosters as an option.

This is a virtual casino?

No, it's a game.

But that's a casino!

Do we say casino anywhere? No, it's a game. See you can even move your character around.

You gamble for money...

We already told you it's a game, it's not gambling.

But it's exactly how a casino works in real life!

LOOK ITS NOT A CASINO, THIS IS A CHILDRENS GAME END OF STORY!!!

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Jumpin Lumpix.6108

Jumpin Lumpix.6108

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@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:Really hope this bill doesnt pass. I dont agree with it at all, parents need to watch their kids.

Ok!

Lets make alcohol legal for every age.

„Parents need to watch thier kids“

Realy dude?

Yah why dont parents watch their kids? You ever hear what happened with prohibition? It didn't work. Just like the war on drugs doesnt work.

Kids get their hands on alchohol all the time, even with the laws, it's up to parents to watch them.

Why should everyones enjoyment be ruined because parents decided to have kids and then decided not to watch them and put the burden on everyone else.

How did the kids get credit cards? if parents dont want them buying things online then why did they give them a card, because It's not like they can get one in their name. Or were they not supervised?

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Jumpin Lumpix.6108

Jumpin Lumpix.6108

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@"Dawdler.8521" said:Imagine a hypotethical scenario...

EA publishes a game called "Arena of Chance" made by some studio they purchased two years ago that's now shut down, it doesnt matter which.

It's just a virtual hotel with slotlike machines, card tables, fun small games, hell even a bouncer world boss. Full DX12 visual glory, raytracing, VR support, godrays from every slotmachine. Players buy currency to use in the minigames and have a chance to win some back. Some can even level up to get into the upper floor VIP lounges where higher level gaming is taking place and you can chance higher numbers for higher wins, or they can of course pay for boosters as an option.

This is a virtual casino?

No, it's a game.

But that's a casino!

Do we say casino anywhere? No, it's a game. See you can even move your character around.

You gamble for money...

We already told you it's a game, it's not gambling.

But it's exactly how a casino works in real life!

LOOK ITS NOT A CASINO, THIS IS A CHILDRENS GAME END OF STORY!!!

This same argument could be applied to gw2 as well as a myriad of games right now. I guess we should ban them all because if we use your example and go down the rabbit hole of logic you've created to its end conclusion then that's most games.

I guess since parents cant watch their kids we should all be under supervision...

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DanAlcedo.3281

DanAlcedo.3281

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@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:Really hope this bill doesnt pass. I dont agree with it at all, parents need to watch their kids.

Ok!

Lets make alcohol legal for every age.

„Parents need to watch thier kids“

Realy dude?

Yea, because loot boxes kill tens of thousands of people a year, and injure many more through impairment.

Are you guys really arguing that Loot Boxes aka Gambling for kids should stay allowed?

If yes, im out.

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ArchonWing.9480

ArchonWing.9480

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@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:Really hope this bill doesnt pass. I dont agree with it at all, parents need to watch their kids.

Ok!

Lets make alcohol legal for every age.

„Parents need to watch thier kids“

Realy dude?

Yea, because loot boxes kill tens of thousands of people a year, and injure many more through impairment.

Are you guys really arguing that Loot Boxes aka Gambling for kids should stay allowed?

No, I'm saying your analogy is terrible.

EDIT: But not just you.

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Jumpin Lumpix.6108

Jumpin Lumpix.6108

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@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:Really hope this bill doesnt pass. I dont agree with it at all, parents need to watch their kids.

Ok!

Lets make alcohol legal for every age.

„Parents need to watch thier kids“

Realy dude?

Yea, because loot boxes kill tens of thousands of people a year, and injure many more through impairment.

Are you guys really arguing that Loot Boxes aka Gambling for kids should stay allowed?

If yes, im out.

Loot boxes are purchased with RL money. How does said kid get the money to purchase them?

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DanAlcedo.3281

DanAlcedo.3281

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@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:Really hope this bill doesnt pass. I dont agree with it at all, parents need to watch their kids.

Ok!

Lets make alcohol legal for every age.

„Parents need to watch thier kids“

Realy dude?

Yea, because loot boxes kill tens of thousands of people a year, and injure many more through impairment.

Are you guys really arguing that Loot Boxes aka Gambling for kids should stay allowed?

If yes, im out.

Loot boxes are purchased with RL money. How does said kid get the money to purchase them?

How do kids get the money for alcohol?> @ArchonWing.9480 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:Really hope this bill doesnt pass. I dont agree with it at all, parents need to watch their kids.

Ok!

Lets make alcohol legal for every age.

„Parents need to watch thier kids“

Realy dude?

Yea, because loot boxes kill tens of thousands of people a year, and injure many more through impairment.

Are you guys really arguing that Loot Boxes aka Gambling for kids should stay allowed?

No, I'm saying your analogy is terrible.

EDIT: But not just you.

Alcohol destroys lifes.Gambling destroys lifes.

I see 0 difference.

There are reason for laws that protect children.

Saying „ Its 100% in the parents hands“ is plain stupid.

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ChronoPinoyX.7923

ChronoPinoyX.7923

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In game lootbags and chests earned specifically by playing the game literally won't get impacted by any laws regarding gambling because you're not gambling. You're playing the game. If you're spending Ectos on Ecto gamble, you're not paying real life money to Ectogamble, you're paying with Ecto which is earned in game by playing the game, not by spending real money. If someone exploited the game to make in-game gold easy, rolling that gold back has no impact in real life because that gold was earned playing and exploiting a game, it wasn't earned by spending real life currency.

Lootboxes are different in that they deal with real life currency, which is where the problem lies. This is where the issue becomes problematic because people spending on lootboxes means using real life currency. Every real life currency you spend in a lootbox means your converting your money to digital goods that may not even be of equal value to what you spent (or worse case scenario, it could be no value) which is where the gambling position comes in. This time, you're not playing the game to get the items from an RNG, you're now genuinely paying with real life cash value on something that will either net you a digital product of Greater, Equal or Lesser to No Value. This is why people see RNG lootboxes as gambling in a sense. Because it involves real monetary value and the items we receive will need to be warranted to have some form of value to it.

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castlemanic.3198

castlemanic.3198

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Real money randomized reward systems (including ecto gambling because of the gems to gold exchange) should be removed on the basis that children can see it and can be affected by it, whether under parental supervision or not. they are manipulative practices on the whole. GW2 has a ton of things on the gem store and shouldn't be affected majorly by their removal (or adjustment on the mount skin licenses). Alcohol and gambling is already legally legislated to prevent children having access to them, and any game marketed as being playable by anyone under the age of 18 should not have loot boxes or pay to win mechanics. If you want pay to win mechanics or loot boxes you should make your game 18+. Kind of as simple as that. Keep it entirely out of the games that are marketed towards anyone below the age of 18.

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ChronoPinoyX.7923

ChronoPinoyX.7923

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@castlemanic.3198 said:Real money randomized reward systems (including ecto gambling because of the gems to gold exchange) should be removed on the basis that children can see it and can be affected by it, whether under parental supervision or not. they are manipulative practices on the whole. GW2 has a ton of things on the gem store and shouldn't be affected majorly by their removal (or adjustment on the mount skin licenses). Alcohol and gambling is already legally legislated to prevent children having access to them, and any game marketed as being playable by anyone under the age of 18 should not have loot boxes or pay to win mechanics. If you want pay to win mechanics or loot boxes you should make your game 18+. Kind of as simple as that. Keep it entirely out of the games that are marketed towards anyone below the age of 18.

Ectogambling doesn't need to be removed. Currency Exchange is the thing that needs to be removed. The Ectogambling itself is relative to the game, the currency exchange is not since it causes a form of pay to win scenario.

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