[Merged] Oh cool you must buy more build slots

[Astralporing.1957]

@yumi.5170 said:I would be fine with that. I just came here to ask if we could move the tabs we buy around, so that if I delete a char or if a class gets nerfed to the ground i could use that slot somewhere else. But i would be okay with this idea.Those would be per-character unlocks. Available only on this character - you won't be able to move those to another one. Same as with bag slots.

[Taygus.4571]

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:I still don't get it...and probably won't till I actually try and use it.

Have you watched the stream? really clears it up.

[Neutra.6857]

@Cameryn.5310 said:

@Neutra.6857 said:Nope, people who had access to a nice remote control that they got for free from third party (and which the cable company had no issue) are now annoyed that they not only do they get a worse remote, but that in order for the remote to be remotely useful to them they have to pay for features they already had for free in the third party remote that they no longer get to use.

You had years of a third party remote control and nobody will ever take away those memories... but now, the guy who owns the TV would like to keep his job, so he's gonna charge you a small fee for a brand spanking new remote control.

Pay the man his fee, because if he doesn't get paid, that TV is gonna go away. Permanently. Forever. No more TV. No more third party remote control. No more nothin'.

Life is hard. Life is change. This is just a game. So, just deal with it... Everyone should stop acting like entitled ingrates. It's just embarrassing.

I did not use that remote for the memories, I used it for the convenience, and guess what, I am losing that convenience because the new remote does not have the abilities of the old remote. I do not need or want that brand spanking new remote, I would not buy that brand spanking new remote because that brand spanking new remote does not do what I need. But I still lose my nice old remote that did do what I want. More then that, I should not need to buy that remote in the first place, since it should have been provided free of charge in the first place. If they want to make money, find some other way to make money. As it is, they have convinced me to no longer spend money on them when I did previously. I will not pay the man his fee for screwing me over.

Oh also, it is rather sad that people are basically saying that this game is in such a bad state that they need to monetize this feature.

[Cameryn.5310]

@Neutra.6857 said:Oh also, it is rather sad that people are basically saying that this game is in such a bad state that they need to monetize this feature.

You don't pay a monthly subscription fee. So how on earth do you THINK games work without subscriptions? Pixie dust? Black magic? Fervent invocation of deity?

Who's going to program new content into the game if they're not going to get paid? Create new art? Record voiceovers?

Of COURSE they are going to charge for stuff. They have to.

Do the math. Something so trivial as having to pay a couple of bucks to keep the game from shutting down for lack of funding is inconsequential; for the effort you've put in here complaining about it you probably could have done something meaningful and been paid enough to cover it.

[Obtena.7952]

@susana.7814 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:We had 7 years without them and we get it for free. It's just another account upgrade.

except that arc allows us to use them for free and anet greenlit it until they had templates in game. They are going to force arc to shut down and so a feature we did used to have for free is now being reintroduced behind a paywall. This isn't cool.

So what you should be doing is thanking Anet for allowing you to use Arc for the last 7 years for those features .... because there wasn't actually a reason they had to do that. It was probably a big headache for them to allow it.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

@SLOTH.5231 said:Anet is actually giving us something useful to simplify things and people still biitching. You are getting the feature free kitten.

No. They are getting something they already could have for free from addons but worse and not free.

[Dante.1508]

Welp it sucks, but its within Anets right to do this, so live with it or don't imo.

I guess a lot of people here are new to mmorpgs business practices.

[Neutra.6857]

@Cameryn.5310 said:

@Neutra.6857 said:Oh also, it is rather sad that people are basically saying that this game is in such a bad state that they need to monetize this feature.

You don't pay a monthly subscription fee. So how on earth do you THINK games work without subscriptions? Pixie dust? Black magic? Fervent invocation of deity?

Who's going to program new content into the game if they're not going to get paid? Create new art? Record voiceovers?

Of COURSE they are going to charge for stuff. They have to.

Do the math. Something so trivial as having to pay a couple of bucks to keep the game from shutting down for lack of funding is inconsequential; for the effort you've put in here complaining about it you probably could have done something meaningful and been paid enough to cover it.

Correct, I do not pay a month subscription fee, which is the only reason I play this game at all. I pay for this game in the first place because it has no subscription, I refused all other subscription games. They got my money first because it had no subscription, and continuing on because I kept playing and it still had no subscription. If they want money, they sell skins, they make expansions, the sell chairs and novelties.

No one is saying they should not sell things, many of us who are complaining have actively supported this game by buying gems. What we are saying is that this should not be monetized. Selling things like this will simply annoy the people who are some of this games more hardcore supporters. You say do the math, I reply the same, do the math when people no longer buy the gems due to disliking this form of demonetization. Do the math when they continue to get a worse and worse reputation.This is not trivial, this is major deal for many of us, hence the complaints.

[Cameryn.5310]

@"Neutra.6857" said:No one is saying they should not sell things, many of us who are complaining have actively supported this game by buying gems. What we are saying is that this should not be monetized. Selling things like this will simply annoy the people who are some of this games more hardcore supporters. You say do the math, I reply the same, do the math when people no longer buy the gems due to disliking this form of demonetization. Do the math when they continue to get a worse and worse reputation.This is not trivial, this is major deal for many of us, hence the complaints.

No, I think you're absolutely saying "this should not be monetized" and then when the next thing comes along, you'll say the same thing. And the next. And the next.

You want unlimited amounts of content, but don't want to pay for it. You bought the base game and expansions... that base game and expansion content is all you're entitled to play. If you want more, there are trades to be made: a bit of money for some convenience, or a skin, or something.

The world doesn't work that way, getting everything for free and then complaining about it when you don't get everything you want. Life is unfair.

You want more build template slots? Buy them. Or don't. Own your choice, but for pete's sake, stop trying to make this look like you're fighting in the Crusades or World War II. And bloody well stop saying this isn't trivial - it's a video game, it is ABSOLUTELY TRIVIAL.

[Neutra.6857]

@Cameryn.5310 said:

@"Neutra.6857" said:No one is saying they should not sell things, many of us who are complaining have actively supported this game by buying gems. What we are saying is that this should not be monetized. Selling things like this will simply annoy the people who are some of this games more hardcore supporters. You say do the math, I reply the same, do the math when people no longer buy the gems due to disliking this form of demonetization. Do the math when they continue to get a worse and worse reputation.This is not trivial, this is major deal for many of us, hence the complaints.

No, I think you're absolutely saying "this should not be monetized" and then when the next thing comes along, you'll say the same thing. And the next. And the next.

You want unlimited amounts of content, but don't want to pay for it. You bought the base game and expansions... that base game and expansion content is all you're entitled to play. If you want more, there are trades to be made: a bit of money for some convenience, or a skin, or something.

The world doesn't work that way, getting everything for free and then complaining about it when you don't get everything you want. Life is unfair.

You want more build template slots? Buy them. Or don't. Own your choice, but for pete's sake, stop trying to make this look like you're fighting in the Crusades or World War II. And bloody well stop saying this isn't trivial - it's a video game, it is ABSOLUTELY TRIVIAL.

Oh so you also seem to have a mind reading device you need to return ince it utterly fails. You know what i have bought, I have bought and supported getting the story instances that I missed due to not being in game for a while. I supported the Account inventory slots and also bought them. I was OK with the game going free to play (sorta) after having to buy it to play. I am fine with the number and amount of gem store skins and have bought them, I am fine with the garden plots and have bought them. I am fine with the mount skins and bought 1. So no you are wrong about me in every way. Stop assuming what I want and what I am like, when you re so wrong it is not even funny.

Actually the world does work the way where people complain about losing a service they got for free and being forced to use a worse service. You are objectively wrong there. As to it being trivial since it is a video game, then I assume you are ok with actual pay to win mechanics, since you know it i just a video game. I am sure you are OK with having to pay for each tiny thing (waypoints, just buy it using gems, dungeons, oh too bad you have to buy using gems to enter now, switching maps, oh look at that you have to buy that too). Don't worry these are all trivial, after all it is a video game.

This is not fighting the crusades, it is complaining about a something that is insufficient to meet my needs, a thing that should have been in base game and should not be bought at all. How about you get over your faux outrage that other people are annoyed, get off your high horse.

[Aeon.4583]

I will throw one last ting in this thread for everyone to think about.

I've seen this coming a miles away. Been preparing, saving Gems and gold, gathering gear for Build Templates including sigils, runes and even infusions.But i see another thing coming to us - Gemstore Gizmo. similar in activation method to World Boss portal device or Pact Activity monitor, that will enable DPS meter UI. And to enable that DPS meter on all characters, that Gizmo will have to go into Shared slot.

Trust me, that form of DPS meter incoming, it will be Gemstore item, and very pricy one. World Boss device just a testing ground.

[RyuDragnier.9476]

People use more than 3 builds for PvE on any class? That...blows my mind.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@Aeon.4583 said:I will throw one last ting in this thread for everyone to think about.

I've seen this coming a miles away. Been preparing, saving Gems and gold, gathering gear for Build Templates including sigils, runes and even infusions.But i see another thing coming to us - Gemstore Gizmo. similar in activation method to World Boss portal device or Pact Activity monitor, that will enable DPS meter UI. And to enable that DPS meter on all characters, that Gizmo will have to go into Shared slot.

Trust me, that form of DPS meter incoming, it will be Gemstore item, and very pricy one. World Boss device just a testing ground.

Will go one step further, expect paid for emotes as other games have done. Not to mention people have already asked for these. Part of this is also the expansion versus no expansion business sets.

[Zin Dau.1749]

People want to pay for predatory game monetization? That blows my mind?

1. 90% won't use more than 3/6 templates. Qed no revenue from them.
2. 10% won't pay for extra slots. Or they quit. Qed no revenue from them.

Great revenue source of $0. And bad rapport from hard core players.

[maultasche.4082]

@Cameryn.5310 said:You don't pay a monthly subscription fee. So how on earth do you THINK games work without subscriptions? Pixie dust? Black magic? Fervent invocation of deity?

How about content? If I understand correctly, Anet invested time and cash into a feature which was already there. Now they want money for it. They could've invested that time in new content (expansion, elite specs, raid, fractals, whatever!) and charged on that. People would've paid without a second thought.

[yoni.7015]

@maultasche.4082 said:

@Cameryn.5310 said:You don't pay a monthly subscription fee. So how on earth do you THINK games work without subscriptions? Pixie dust? Black magic? Fervent invocation of deity?

How about content? If I understand correctly, Anet invested time and cash into a feature which was already there. Now they want money for it. They could've invested that time in new content (expansion, elite specs, raid, fractals, whatever!) and charged on that. People would've paid without a second thought.

I am pretty sure not all of anet worked on the templates. And there were not there, not from Anet but from a third party program. This is a difference.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

Not really sure where all the testiness is coming from when we look at the big picture here. Every character gets 3 template builds, and arguably, build templates are next to useless for exclusively or primarily focused PvE players. 1 build/armor/weapon set can basically carry someone through 99% of the PvE content. I cant' really even see a use for these templates at all unless it's to change the fashion on their characters.

The templates are however far more useful to WvW players where builds can become very situational: roaming vs zerging vs small scale vs simply trying to survive while getting to your group. Then there are time where you might want to be in full damage (waiting in chokes), vs more tanky (attacking a keep). The thing is with this, WvW has lost so many players. Not only that, these guilds that run in WvW have horrendously huge war chests of gold that could probably line all their guildies with over 50 extra slots each without even making a dent in their war chest. They won't need to buy gems

So Anet put forward something many players have wanted for awhile. The players who would spend the money realistically don't need these templates at all, whereas the players that could use them, their guilds have so much gold, they wont need to spend any money to get them.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

@RyuDragnier.9476 said:People use more than 3 builds for PvE on any class? That...blows my mind.

@RyuDragnier.9476 said:People use more than 3 builds for PvE on any class? That...blows my mind.

My chrono uses more then 30.5 stat combinations and many diferent runes, weapons, sigils and amount of boon duration under each of thise combinations

[Taygus.4571]

@Zin Dau.1749 said:People want to pay for predatory game monetization? That blows my mind?

1. 90% won't use more than 3/6 templates. Qed no revenue from them.
2. 10% won't pay for extra slots. Or they quit. Qed no revenue from them.

Great revenue source of $0. And bad rapport from hard core players.

You only get 2 equipment slots(1 extra than we have atm) free...I have a feeling people will buy equipment slots.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

@Zin Dau.1749 said:People want to pay for predatory game monetization? That blows my mind?

1. 90% won't use more than 3/6 templates. Qed no revenue from them.
2. 10% won't pay for extra slots. Or they quit. Qed no revenue from them.

Great revenue source of $0. And bad rapport from hard core players.What makes this more predatory than buying bank tabs or bag slots, something that's been in the game since day 1?

[Vegeta.2563]

Since you can store builds in the account build storage that can be shared via chat codes, anybody with a text editor can store as many builds as they want. This is why charging for account build storage slots is redundant with the build sharing functionalities.

I for one will not put a dime towards them as long as I can store them externally, or via guild message of the day.

[Taygus.4571]

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:What makes this more predatory than buying bank tabs or bag slots, something that's been in the game since day 1?

I've always found bag slots to be predatory.

They're pricy. They unlock on only on character and the game has been disgned to fill your bags with junk, making at least a couple of them almost necessary.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Vegeta.2563 said:Since you can store builds in the account build storage that can be shared via chat codes, anybody with a text editor can store as many builds as they want. This is why charging for account build storage slots is redundant with the build sharing functionalities.

I for one will not put a dime towards them as long as I can store them externally, or via guild message of the day.

Then don't. It's a QoL feature, if you are willing to use chat codes and are fine with the base amount of storage possibilities, that's great and it's even better that this workaround works.

If others are willing to pay for additional slots as to not have to deal with chat codes, let them.

[Taygus.4571]

That only works for trait templates.

It doesn't work for gear templates, which is an important part of a build.

[Danikat.8537]

To my mind that just puts it into the same category as other convenience items in the gem store. No one needs a home instance portal or world boss portal because they can use waypoints. No one needs infinite salvage kits or gathering tools because they can buy infinite numbers of consumable ones in-game relatively cheaply. No one needs home instance nodes because they can get the same materials out in the world.

What you're paying for is making it slightly more convenient. Whether that's worth doing will vary between people of course (and between items). I know I don't need infinite gathering tools, but I like having them so I don't have to worry about making sure I've got spares. I doubt I'll buy build (or equipment) templates because I don't change my build that often so using text codes instead is fine for me. (Honestly I'm mostly ok with changing them manually, except I can never remember which traits I need.)

But IMO it's important that we don't need to buy them, because otherwise it goes from a convenience to a required upgrade and even expansions haven't really hit that point.