This is why I hate flash sales.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:March sales are the worst for this because they make a point to not announce what days have what sales until the very day it happens. The only way for players to know ahead of time is to datamine the game, which is obviously anti customer friendly. I've missed many sales I wanted to partake in because of it and have always left me sour.

And yet, ArenaNet has been posting sales one week in advance.

Not when it comes to the daily individual sales, no.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I guess the list of sales for each day of the week is something else, then. My bad.

[ScyeRynn.4218]

Yep, but hey look on the bright side, they don't mind keeping that butt-ugly Lunar-Mane Skyscale skin around for us =)

[Harfang.1507]

Flash sales: bad marketing for people who cannot check every day.This year's March sale is the one that has left me the most underwhelmed. Was it last year or two years ago they had this skritt-themed sale? That one was good.

[mercury ranique.2170]

There might also be some cultural issues here.I'm european. My first reaction would be tha I would not have an issue to pay 4 times the price outside the "sale" window for an item I really want (Silver-fed Salvage-o-matic). But then I realised that in NA it is very normal that when you buy an item and two weeks later it goes in sale, you'll can ask for the difference back. This is uncalled for in europe, unless it was agreed on when the deal was made.

I do think they push things to far with the current system.I recently finished my MF-maxing and reviewed my salvage-or-sell strategy based on the fact that luck is mostly useless for me. I also discovered I was short on mystic forge stones which limits my supply of mystic salvage kits. So I've set my eyes on the convinience of a silver-o-matic for my more exclusive salvages. Unfortunally the wait is not over yet. In 2019 and 2020 it was for sale around valentines day, but no such luck this year.

[Tatwi.3562]

@Nero DarkSlayer.9206 said:I got news flash, A-Net. I'm a PERSON. I like to play other games. I like to consume other media. ... I think it is outrageously unfair to miss out on something I've been waiting and asking for for YEARS just because FOMO market models happen to be profitable, albeit disgustingly draconian and manipulative towards consumers. I mean come on. The item was up for TWENTY FOUR HOURS. If the item was on sale for one day, but available for a few, this wouldn't have been an issue. But no. it was available for ONE DAY. That is just disgustingly disrespectful of people's time. I'm over here BEGGING to give you my money, but you won't accept it because I failed to log into your news feed EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. Amazing.. Amazing what corporate number crunchers will demand of people for the sake of turning a profit, isn't it?

... Nine years... Nine kitten years I've been playing this game. Thousands of hours... Probably at least a thousand DOLLARS grand total over those years... And then this. Thanks Arena-Net. Good to know you care so much about your most loyal customers.

I completely agree with you. I've complained about this in the past as well.

The truly pathetic thing is that, at least in my case, Arenanet would have made likely hundreds of dollars more from me had they simply made everything available for sale at full price on their website from the beginning. As it is though, because I have no intertest in playing the game every day (often I don't play at all for months or even a year), I generally only buy character slots and even then, it's at most once a year when they are on sale and generally done with gold -> gems conversion. I think I have bought gems only 3 times since I bought the game Dec 2012.

Your loss Anet...

[kharmin.7683]

@Tatwi.3562 said:

@Nero DarkSlayer.9206 said:I got news flash, A-Net. I'm a PERSON. I like to play other games. I like to consume other media. ... I think it is outrageously unfair to miss out on something I've been waiting and asking for for YEARS

just because FOMO market models happen to be profitable, albeit disgustingly draconian and manipulative towards consumers

. I mean come on. The item was up for TWENTY FOUR HOURS. If the item was on sale for one day, but available for a few, this wouldn't have been an issue. But no. it was available for ONE DAY. That is just disgustingly disrespectful of people's time. I'm over here BEGGING to give you my money, but you won't accept it because I failed to log into your news feed EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. Amazing.. Amazing what corporate number crunchers will demand of people for the sake of turning a profit, isn't it?

... Nine years... Nine kitten years I've been playing this game. Thousands of hours... Probably at least a thousand DOLLARS grand total over those years... And then this. Thanks Arena-Net. Good to know you care so much about your most loyal customers.

I completely agree with you. I've complained about this in the past as well.

The truly pathetic thing is that, at least in my case, Arenanet would have made likely hundreds of dollars more from me had they simply made everything available for sale at full price on their website from the beginning. As it is though, because I have no intertest in playing the game every day (often I don't play at all for months or even a year), I generally only buy character slots and even then, it's at most once a year when they are on sale and generally done with gold -> gems conversion. I think I have bought gems only 3 times since I bought the game Dec 2012.

Your loss Anet...

Would have likely made hundreds of dollars more? So, there was no guarantee that they would, only that they might have made more. I think that Anet trusts their marketing data than hyperbolic statements from a relatively few players.

[Tatwi.3562]

@Super Hayes.6890 said:For a game supported by micro transactions, I have raised an eyebrow more than once when I had the money but couldn't buy what I wanted.I didn't put that money aside and wait for it to become available either. I simply lost interest and never bought them. My gem store purchases are few and far between because I only buy when I'm in good shape on my expenses and what I want is available. I must be in a minority though as they clearly still run this artificial scarcity model. OP, I'm with you. All items should be available all the time. Artificial scarcity should be created by limited time sales, not availability.Let me highlight that statement again for you, Arenanet, because it's 100% why I haven't spent much money on this game:

I didn't put that money aside and wait for it to become available either. I simply lost interest and never bought them

I'm an adult; Waste my time and I will absolutely occupy it with something else, often out of necessity, but also because it's difficult to remain interested in (let alone excited about) something that is unavailable for an indeterminate amount of time. That's just reality.

In retrospect, I can observe that this issue has actually put me off playing the game entirely several times over the years; It actively works against my interest in the playing the game and supporting your company.

[Tatwi.3562]

@kharmin.7683 said:Would have likely made hundreds of dollars more? So, there was no guarantee that they would, only that they might have made more. I think that Anet trusts their marketing data than hyperbolic statements from a relatively few players.I spent about $2,000 on WoW and $300ish on Planetside 2, plus other games and countless products and services over the years because...

I could actually buy them when I felt like buying them.

Total rocket magic, I know.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Nero DarkSlayer.9206 said:[...] I mean jesus christ... I know you guys are just trying to help, but it's irritating when I'm told to do the thing I literally already said I did in the initial post. It just sends the message that people aren't even reading what I wrote before chiming in.

I did read the whole post. In it, you said you missed the sale by two days. Now you make it sound like the news came out the day the item was on sale and that you missed the item by merely a minute. That's a bit confusing. Anyway, sorry that you found my previous response irritating or that I am not getting you here.

P.S. I wouldn't mind a system where you can check on things outside of the game. Just so you know. ;)

@Harfang.1507 said:Flash sales: bad marketing for people who cannot check every day.

That is true, though. When there has been no announcement about the sale of the item in question, that's a different story. I did miss out on a thing or two that way myself in the past. But I believe the last sale of the Lava Lounge Pass does not belong in that category.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

I greatly prefer business models where items are available when in stock. Of course, with virtual items, such items could always be in stock. I also prefer business models where items are offered at a known price. Sadly, while businesses have always sought to manipulate customers into buying things, it was often to get them to patronize one business over another by offering goods at an enticing price, with extras, etc. With game shops, the manipulation centers more around triggering impulse buying and pandering to peoples' weakness to the gamblers' and sunk cost fallacies.

The thing is, are such tactics necessary to generate enough revenue to keep the game operating, or are they "necessary" to generate greater profits demanded by a publisher or investor? They'll never tell. So, I can only vote with my wallet. While ANet's business model is better than some, it still falls short of what I'd prefer. So, I vote with my wallet, which is no longer open for ANet. It's a stance that, if adopted by enough people, might provoke change. Fat chance of that, though.

Cheers.

[choon.6308]

@Nero DarkSlayer.9206 said:I mean the news article dropped the same day the item did, so there wasn't even any forward warning. it was literally 24 hours from the word go, out of nowhere.

Well, many people are skilled at data mining and usually announce upcoming sales with each new patch on other forums. I knew about Lava Lounge sale 10 days in advance and planned accordingly and bought it.

[Will.9785]

Flash sales just hurt ANet IMO - at least from my perspective. I've been wanting to get all of the "Star" mounts for a while. They are all split up across multiple mount license types. I missed the first day, meaning I couldn't get the entire set and as I result I didn't buy a single one of them. It's like 5880 gems I didn't buy.

[Substance E.4852]

It always amazes me when people defend obvious manipulative market practices just because their favorite game studio does it

Regardless of how much one could or could not do to plan for these "flash sales" does not change the fact that they, and limited availability of digital items, exist purely to force a FOMO response in people and trick them into spending money they might not have otherwise

Not only is a it a giant pain in the ass to deal with, it's just plain immoral and allows them to half ass content by letting anxiety sell the product rather than the quality of the product itself

Imagine how many fewer "derp mounts" we'd get if they were available year round instead of as "holy shit buy this now before it's gone for 6+ months!!!!!!" skins

[robertthebard.8150]

@"Substance E.4852" said:It always amazes me when people defend obvious manipulative market practices just because their favorite game studio does it

Regardless of how much one could or could not do to plan for these "flash sales" does not change the fact that they, and limited availability of digital items, exist purely to force a FOMO response in people and trick them into spending money they might not have otherwise

Not only is a it a giant pain in the kitten to deal with, it's just plain immoral and allows them to half kitten content by letting anxiety sell the product rather than the quality of the product itself

Imagine how many fewer "kitten mounts" we'd get if they were available year round instead of as "holy kitten buy this now before it's gone for 6+ months!!!!!!" skins

Um, no? Do you show up at Mc Donald's the day after they cancel the Mc Rib, and insist that they serve you one? How about Amazon? They have these flash sales too. It's a pretty common practice. I'm not even trying to defend it, it just is what it is.

[Super Hayes.6890]

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@"Substance E.4852" said:It always amazes me when people defend obvious manipulative market practices just because their favorite game studio does it

Regardless of how much one could or could not do to plan for these "flash sales" does not change the fact that they, and limited availability of digital items, exist purely to force a FOMO response in people and trick them into spending money they might not have otherwise

Not only is a it a giant pain in the kitten to deal with, it's just plain immoral and allows them to half kitten content by letting anxiety sell the product rather than the quality of the product itself

Imagine how many fewer "kitten mounts" we'd get if they were available year round instead of as "holy kitten buy this now before it's gone for 6+ months!!!!!!" skins

Um, no? Do you show up at Mc Donald's the day after they cancel the Mc Rib, and insist that they serve you one? How about Amazon? They have these flash sales too. It's a pretty common practice. I'm not even trying to defend it, it just is what it is.

As a manager in the food service industry, we hate seasonal items or "flash sales" as you are comparing it. Having access to the data in my field I can say with certainty that seasonal items are practically demanded from our consumer base. I can't tell you if flash sales in the gaming industry are a demand we make with our money or not. I can say that I feel the food service comparison is probably not a great parallel as the supply chain side is completely different from digital inventory.

[robertthebard.8150]

@Super Hayes.6890 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@"Substance E.4852" said:It always amazes me when people defend obvious manipulative market practices just because their favorite game studio does it

Regardless of how much one could or could not do to plan for these "flash sales" does not change the fact that they, and limited availability of digital items, exist purely to force a FOMO response in people and trick them into spending money they might not have otherwise

Not only is a it a giant pain in the kitten to deal with, it's just plain immoral and allows them to half kitten content by letting anxiety sell the product rather than the quality of the product itself

Imagine how many fewer "kitten mounts" we'd get if they were available year round instead of as "holy kitten buy this now before it's gone for 6+ months!!!!!!" skins

Um, no? Do you show up at Mc Donald's the day after they cancel the Mc Rib, and insist that they serve you one? How about Amazon? They have these flash sales too. It's a pretty common practice. I'm not even trying to defend it, it just is what it is.

As a manager in the food service industry, we hate seasonal items or "flash sales" as you are comparing it. Having access to the data in my field I can say with certainty that seasonal items are practically demanded from our consumer base. I can't tell you if flash sales in the gaming industry are a demand we make with our money or not. I can say that I feel the food service comparison is probably not a great parallel as the supply chain side is completely different from digital inventory.

Likely true. However, in context with the thread, it's a high demand item, for the OP, and maybe others. But the point was more that sales happen, flash or otherwise, and it's possible to miss them w/out the concept of the sale being bad, in and of itself.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

@"Substance E.4852" said:It always amazes me when people defend obvious manipulative market practices just because their favorite game studio does it

Regardless of how much one could or could not do to plan for these "flash sales" does not change the fact that they, and limited availability of digital items, exist purely to force a FOMO response in people and trick them into spending money they might not have otherwiseManipulating your customers into FOMO is all well and good, but some of these customers will actually MO on things they really want. This might well PO these people and some might even just FO.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

Personally I don’t see why ANet doesn’t have the ability to sell items at usual prices when people contact them. I already know they have made exceptions in certain cases such as missing a sale by a day. If they already have that ability then why not make it for all requests, especially since they admitted a big problem with keeping items “in stock” is that the gemstore is not set up for that.

[robertthebard.8150]

It's funny that, having gone and checked my mail before coming back here just now, I deleted an email from Best Buy, about a flash sale.

[Emberheart.8426]

FOMO is one thing, but having something available for a day instead of like 2 or 3 does seem a bit excessive and could actually result in missed sales.

[Ashen.2907]

@"Nero DarkSlayer.9206" said:I've been waiting for three years to buy the lava lounge pass. I even posted about it in the gemstore request thread back in October 2020. I check this game's news feed at least twice a week, but come on. I can't check the news EVERY day. The pass was on sale for ONE DAY. Out of THREE kitten YEARS. I missed the sale by TWO DAYS. Yeah, I get that's on me. But there's little more infuriating and insulting than diligently supporting a game for the better part of nine years, convincing at least a half a dozen of my friends to try it out, and then to be slapped in the face by marketing models that demand I spend every minute of every day playing this game. I sent a support ticket asking very nicely for leniency. Even offered to pay full price for it. Of course they told me 'no'. I fully expected them to. I'm colossally pissed off all the same. I mean the news article dropped the same day the item did, so there wasn't even any forward warning. it was literally 24 hours from the word go, out of nowhere.

P.S. Here's my quote from the gemstore request thread. Oct 28 2020

"My only wish is for the (permanent) Lava Lounge pass to be on sale again. I've been checking the gw2 news feed every few days for like a year now waiting for it."

I got news flash, A-Net. I'm a PERSON. I like to play other games. I like to consume other media. I've been playing Valheim the past few days, so I missed the sale. Sue me. I think it is outrageously unfair to miss out on something I've been waiting and asking for for YEARS just because FOMO market models happen to be profitable, albeit disgustingly draconian and manipulative towards consumers. I mean come on. The item was up for TWENTY FOUR HOURS. If the item was on sale for one day, but available for a few, this wouldn't have been an issue. But no. it was available for ONE DAY. That is just disgustingly disrespectful of people's time. I'm over here BEGGING to give you my money, but you won't accept it because I failed to log into your news feed EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. Amazing.. Amazing what corporate number crunchers will demand of people for the sake of turning a profit, isn't it?

... Nine years... Nine kitten years I've been playing this game. Thousands of hours... Probably at least a thousand DOLLARS grand total over those years... And then this. Thanks Arena-Net. Good to know you care so much about your most loyal customers.

I agree with the sentiment but the hyperbole undermines it.

[itinerant.5081]

I agree that the Gem Store items shouldn't be time limited. I would like to buy items that are seasonal and cannot be checking the Gem Store everyday since I take very long breaks from the game. I probably spend around $200 a year on this game but still end up frustrated that I can't get things that I want!

Furthermore sometimes items go away and come back in an even more aggravating form, like BLC exclusives that go to Black Lion Statuettes... Now instead of just buying something from the store I have to gamble and gamble..

Having played Asian MMOs in the past I can say that the recent Gem Store release and sales schedules is mirroring them which is not a good thing!

Please consider a more 'normal' way of selling premium cosmetic items in the store.

[Joote.4081]

Twice now I have spent a barrel load of gems on items from the store only to find the very next day that they become a promotional item. I'm sure they are watching me.

[Bast.7253]

It is pretty annoying. I wish they would upload the items into some online market attached to our Arenanet Accounts similar to what Blizzard does with their online shop.

Giving people the chance to purchase things whenever they want while leaving the in-game options the same. I keep seeing these dark matter capes and various other backpack skins that will likely come back, but the problem is that many of us don't always have the funds to just jump in and purchase something when it's on sale.

Why not give your customers the ability to purchase when THEY want to, without being forced to purchase it when it's available in-game?

I'm sure keeping track of getting the items to someone after they've purchased them online would be a bit of a nuisance to engineer but it seems like it would be worth the investment, especially in the long run.