Playing the game without referring to the wiki or other online resource

[TheBravery.9615]

Why is this game so convoluted in regards with crafting, achievements, and soulbound mission related trophies? This is a major gripe I have with this game.

[LuRkEr.9462]

Crafting you can do without the wiki, it will just take longer.

Achievements you can also do without the wiki (all those achievements were figured out and added to the wiki later)

Not sure what you mean by mission trophies.

 

Point is everything is added to the wiki after other players discover it naturally. It seems you are complaining more about time investment than needing a wiki? The game doesn't need to hold a players hand. Many players never look at the wiki and stroll right through the game.

[Touchme.1097]

19 minutes ago, LuRkEr.9462 said:

Crafting you can do without the wiki, it will just take longer.

Achievements you can also do without the wiki (all those achievements were figured out and added to the wiki later)

Not sure what you mean by mission trophies.

 

Point is everything is added to the wiki after other players discover it naturally. It seems you are complaining more about time investment than needing a wiki? The game doesn't need to hold a players hand. Many players never look at the wiki and stroll right through the game.

There is a fallacy in your argument, how would you know how to make discoveries when crafting without a reliable source of information like the wiki? Chef and Scribe are not as intuitive as other crafting disciplines when leveling them up.

Some achievements are hidden others require something to unlock in order to show up on the achievements list. 

The wiki is hands down a necessary reliable source of information to avoid getting stuck forever, the only thing that doesn't require external sources for progression purposes is the story.

[Pacificterror.7805]

I look at the wiki among other resources because I'd like to jump straight into something as informed as possible. I do not NEED to look at the wiki, I choose to (I'm a lazy chud).

[Vukovic.9320]

I think there's a gap in the usability of in-game information that makes it almost a necessity to use the wiki

I'm ashamed to admit but as someone who comes back to the game after long stretches, I often need to wiki even the dailies because I can't find on the map where anything is and you can't even just click on something in the achievement menu and get further information. You know how long it took me to figure out there was two different maguuma areas for the dailies? I just looked for it on the map and was wondering why the daily counter wasn't ticking up. Not sure why there's such a lack of further information in those menus and things like being able to search the map or to have a few dropdowns so you can search by the word not just visually

 

That's just one small example but I've even struggled trying to explain to mates how to do things in game like progress their crafting, or get to expansion zones and it's always "mate just read the wiki" which turns a lot of people off. 

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crafting_Crier

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sage#Dialogue

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cullen#Dialogue

 

As for (hidden or otherwise) achievements, I think the Devs want the community to communicate.  Via in-game chat, forums, social media, Wiki, etc.

The Wiki is useless the first day or two of a new release, so there are other ways to gather information.  Thank goodness for all those intrepid explorers! 

 

Edit:  Clicking on the compass for a particular Daily will open a tip window indicating which maps are included. 

Edited May 25, 2021 by Inculpatus cedo.9234

[Vukovic.9320]

....oh and don't even get me started on trying to figure out how to get the long string of mats for ascended gear without the wiki or a youtube video. You'd think you'd be able to lookup the armour in the crafting menu, see what it needs, and chain off from there and at least figure most of it out in-game 

[Sarrs.4831]

2 minutes ago, Vukovic.9320 said:

....oh and don't even get me started on trying to figure out how to get the long string of mats for ascended gear without the wiki or a youtube video. You'd think you'd be able to lookup the armour in the crafting menu, see what it needs, and chain off from there and at least figure most of it out in-game 

But you can? You just bring up the armor piece, it'll show you which pieces you need, and then you can chain off into what pieces are needed from there.

The only complicated material that I can think of is the Irradiated Vision Crystal but that's not needed for most Ascended pieces.

[JustTrogdor.7892]

Well some people obviously figured that stuff out on their own in order to update the wiki.  So I guess it is possible.   I think some players just like going through trial and error as part of their game.   Me I'm not that patient and I'm glad for the players that have gone ahead before me to figure all this stuff out with no guide.

[Shaogin.2679]

1 hour ago, Touchme.1097 said:

There is a fallacy in your argument, how would you know how to make discoveries when crafting without a reliable source of information like the wiki? Chef and Scribe are not as intuitive as other crafting disciplines when leveling them up.

Some achievements are hidden others require something to unlock in order to show up on the achievements list. 

The wiki is hands down a necessary reliable source of information to avoid getting stuck forever, the only thing that doesn't require external sources for progression purposes is the story.

For crafting (no matter the profession) you go to the discovery tab and double click the available ingredients to see what can be combined with it to, and I can't stress this part enough, DISCOVER the recipe. Also, anything that you craft that can also be used as an ingredient is also labeled as such in the item description. The wiki, as with just about any other game in existence (anyone remember buying those guide books for games like the original Mortal Kombat games?) is there just to make your life easier by giving you all the answers. Honestly, players have it easy in GW2 with the way they integrated the wiki into the game, and yet somehow it is never enough. 

[Veprovina.4876]

I mean... Yes and no. Using wiki and other sources is certainly convenient and in the case of a lot of quest and achievement items - required - but i don't agree about the crafting, you can totally level it yourself, just takes a while.

And if you don't know the ingredients for some ascended, just pull up the end recipe and itll show you what component requires what and you can craft the entire thing from there.

We just need a separate storage only for achievement and quest items and i'll be happy. I don't want to delete most of them, so they take up space, and most don't tell you if the're needed for some other achievement or it's safe to delete them...

[Khisanth.2948]

Of course it is possible. The things one the wiki was written after someone went and figured out the necessary information and put it there.

Plenty of people were also doing those things before most of the stuff was written.

3 hours ago, Sarrs.4831 said:

The only complicated material that I can think of is the Irradiated Vision Crystal but that's not needed for most Ascended pieces.

That is only used for Stellar weapons and Yasna who sells the recipe sheets for  those has a dialog option for how to make it. So that is actually one of the last things anyone should need any external resources to figure out.

 

[Vayne.8563]

5 hours ago, Vukovic.9320 said:

I think there's a gap in the usability of in-game information that makes it almost a necessity to use the wiki

I'm ashamed to admit but as someone who comes back to the game after long stretches, I often need to wiki even the dailies because I can't find on the map where anything is and you can't even just click on something in the achievement menu and get further information. You know how long it took me to figure out there was two different maguuma areas for the dailies? I just looked for it on the map and was wondering why the daily counter wasn't ticking up. Not sure why there's such a lack of further information in those menus and things like being able to search the map or to have a few dropdowns so you can search by the word not just visually

 

That's just one small example but I've even struggled trying to explain to mates how to do things in game like progress their crafting, or get to expansion zones and it's always "mate just read the wiki" which turns a lot of people off. 

What dailies did you actually need to use the wiki for?

[Pirogen.9561]

Wiki is official help system for Guild Wars(1&2).

 

Not all people play MMO to "just fight". Many play to explore and discover.

[Tiamat.8254]

I think if there was no wiki, there would be a while load of content that would never get the time of day. I don't believe you should use it for everything, but for casual players like myself, I don't have time to work everything out or spend time speaking to every NPC. I wish I did, but this is reality. I only check wiki if I am really stuck and really don't have the time. 

[Zephire.8049]

Some people like discovering things on their own, others would rather "get on with it" or have limited play time. You don't need to use the wiki if you don't want to, but it is a resource for players if they so wish and there's no difference between the wiki and all the game guides that have been put up over the past three decades except it's officially recognized and ran by Arenanet.

 

But the API is so useful that even if there wasn't an official wiki, one would have been made long ago because people like having the option to look things up. Even with the wiki, there's demand for and support for content creators who make guides or otherwise explain things because even though the game explains them, sometimes someone misses it or it's presented in one way while they only really get/understand things if it's presented in a different way.

 

If you don't like guides, don't use them, but don't get mad that other players have the choice of looking up a guide.

 

And again, most of GW2's crafting and achievements are straightforward. If they weren't, people would complain about things being unclear after every single content release when the wiki has not been updated.

[Danikat.8537]

I think the intention is that players will spend a lot more time exploring, experimenting and discovering things for themselves rather than viewing everything in the game as a series of checklists to be completed as quickly and efficiently as possible.

 

Especially when it comes to things like hidden achievements. I think some are hidden because many people may never get a chance to do it (like the one for killing an Anet staff member in PvP, if you're in the wrong time zone you may never be online at the same time they are) and they don't want completionists getting frustrated at the one impossible achievement sitting there unfinished. But others are hidden so it's a nice surprise when you complete it and find out there was an achievement for doing it.

 

As for crafting I got all the crafts up to 400 without using the Wiki or a guide and I got several to 500 that way as well. The solution was fairly simple: experiment. I made components so I could figure out what they were for, I'd click on something in the discovery tab and see what stayed highlighted and keep going until I could combine 4, only finding out what they made when I did it.

 

It probably did take longer and was certainly more expensive than following a guide where someone had worked out the most efficient route but it worked. Doing it that way also helped me learn how crafting works so pretty soon I could predict what would go together and which recipes were missing (for example comparing the list of insignias I could make to the prefixes on the weapons or armour to see which were missing and could still be discovered). Cooking too, it may not follow a consistent pattern like the others but it does resemble real cooking (with some allowances for game mechanics) which makes it easier to guess what might go together or what might be missing from a recipe.)

 

Also once you've gotten to the end of the process for 1 item you can click on it to see what it's made from and work back through the process right down to raw materials, then extrapolate from that to work out how to make similar items (like armour with a different prefix).

[Cuks.8241]

I have never used wiki for crafting. Except the last part of legendary, the mistic forge part after the precursor. 

[kanemi.4903]

2 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

I have never used wiki for crafting. Except the last part of legendary, the mistic forge part after the precursor. 

 

For craft I have been using https://gw2crafts.net/, for legendary I use https://gw2efficiency.com/.
I'm not an achievement freak, so i pretty much only run if I need an mastery and/or something relate to legendary and stuff, for that I use the Wiki.

And since I started playing the Wiki has helped-me in multiple occasions.

 

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I didn't use a guide for crafting, either.  Especially for Cooking; that one is just fun.  And, I know I have not discovered every recipe.

Rarely used a guide/Wiki for Story 'missions'.  Only after failing repeatedly.

 

I played Guild Wars for several years before I ever even knew such a thing as the Wiki even existed.  But, having discovered it, I am an enthusiastic, albeit non-regular, contributor to the Wiki. 

[Rukia.4802]

11 hours ago, LuRkEr.9462 said:

Crafting you can do without the wiki, it will just take longer.

Achievements you can also do without the wiki (all those achievements were figured out and added to the wiki later)

Not sure what you mean by mission trophies.

 

Point is everything is added to the wiki after other players discover it naturally. It seems you are complaining more about time investment than needing a wiki? The game doesn't need to hold a players hand. Many players never look at the wiki and stroll right through the game.

I could walk to work but I'm not gonna do it because that would take forever.

Wiki is required to do much in this game unless you are one very dedicated masochist, to argue this point is ridiculous. 

Sometimes I think ANet actually want you to spend most of your time tabbed out of the game or on your phone.

 

I can tell you one thing for certain, when cantha drops I will be using the wiki religiously because I didn't sign up to be a detective. I just want to play the game and when I notice something is about to throw me through a loop I immediately google/youtube/wiki that crap because I cannot be bothered. Give me a hard fight, I'll figure it out myself. Give me a stupid 'puzzle', I use that term loosely, designed to waste my time and frustrate me well I'll let someone else figure that out instead.

 

I think /wiki literally being a function inside the game should speak for itself. I can't even imagine doing some collections blind, that would likely result in a fast uninstall.

[HappyHubris.1096]

12 hours ago, TheBravery.9615 said:

Why is this game so convoluted in regards with crafting, achievements, and soulbound mission related trophies? This is a major gripe I have with this game.

I agree that GW2 really leans on out-of-game documentation instead of explaining things clearly in game.  There's a ton of currencies, reward systems that are very difficult to stumble-upon, cryptic hints for many collections, etc.  This is exacerbated by a horizontal progression model that makes so much of the content relevant at level 80.  Instead of being funneled into a few "level cap" progression systems you have a proliferation of level 80 zones that all offer some sort of chance at advancement.

 

While it's technically possible to do everything in the game sans wiki, the time investment for many collections or progressions would be vastly outside of what the average player can muster.  I could have spent a year looking for my Knight of the Thorn collections, for example.

 

Heck, ANet even monetized world boss timers instead of putting that information in the UI, so...to the wiki I go!

Edited May 25, 2021 by HappyHubris.1096

[HappyHubris.1096]

11 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

As for (hidden or otherwise) achievements, I think the Devs want the community to communicate.  Via in-game chat, forums, social media, Wiki, etc.

This is a positive spin on "in-game explanations are insufficient."  People said the same thing before the game got a LFG widget to excuse away the gap.

[Rasimir.6239]

12 hours ago, TheBravery.9615 said:

Why is this game so convoluted in regards with crafting, achievements, and soulbound mission related trophies? This is a major gripe I have with this game.

I have a shelf in my office that holds several folders full of information about video games I have played. Handwritten information about quests, equipment, characters, handdrawn maps and so on. This is for games I have played a long time ago, like Ultima IV or Wizardry VI when they were first released. Back then, we didn't have any wiki to look things up, and it would take weeks for game magazines to publish any spoilers, so we would simply go into the game, explore, experiment, and take our own notes.

 

These days I still take notes when playing, only not in as nice and durable a format as I used to back then, because I know that I can look it up on the wiki if I need to check what I wrote down later on and happen to not find my notes any more. I don't however look things up in the wiki initially, because exploration, experimentation, and discovery are the main activities that draw me to this kind of game. Where's the fun in just blindly following what others discovered?

 

What is your goal when playing GW2? Why do you feel the need to look things up in the wiki? Is it just a numbers game to you ("need to have max level/max crafting/max mastery asap")? Is there anybody pushing you to finish things quicker than you could explore and discover them on your own time?

 

I still have a notebook and pen sitting next to my keyboard. Right now the two top-most pages contain information about the Astralaria collection IV (taken from the in-game tooltips of the collection items) and a list about crafting-trait research for my ESO alts. Both pages are heavily used, added to, and crossed out, on a daily basis. Other pages hold notes on other things I've done, am doing, or might want to do in the future. It's a bit of a mess right now, since the information available via wiki and other internet resources has made me more relaxed in taking notes, but the basic way of playing rpg games really hasn't changed for me over the last 30 years. The wiki is nice to have, but personally I just use it for known content. I won't let it rob me of the joy of discovery and exploration.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

7 minutes ago, HappyHubris.1096 said:

This is a positive spin on "in-game explanations are insufficient."  People said the same thing before the game got a LFG widget to excuse away the gap.

Positive or no, it's what the Devs have stated more than once.