When was pvp in a good state?

[vegetableknife.4561]

I just started playing a few months ago so the majority of what I've seen on the forums isn't necessarily positive.  Was there a time when sPvP was "good" and people generally enjoyed it and the meta at the time?  Like, were there pvp guilds around or something.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Prior to Feb patch, wasn't perfect but way better than what it currently is.

[Vancho.8750]

2 minutes ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Prior to Feb patch, wasn't perfect but way better than what it currently is.

It was shittier and you know it, you just enjoyed two shotting people. 

Pre HoT might be , Pre PoF when they added ATs  had it better, the After bunker Chrono time S4 to S6 I think it was fine.

I think the time between scourge got unnerfed and the February patch, it was going somewhere good but they dialed down the balance patches hard I assume they started work on the Expansion around that time, which is kinda dumb to me since I'm pretty sure someone could bang up some number tuning to buff up the useless specks once a month, in a afternoon. 

[Dahkeus.8243]

According this forum, the answer has eternally been "maybe then, but definitely not now".

 

Personally, I don't think it's that bad right now, but I also remember times when ideal comps were 5x turret engis, 5x celestial ele, etc., so some of those particularly egregiously mis-balanced times may skew things a bit.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Amonth befor hot was released. Was the best balance there was.

[razaelll.8324]

2 hours ago, vegetableknife.4561 said:

I just started playing a few months ago so the majority of what I've seen on the forums isn't necessarily positive.  Was there a time when sPvP was "good" and people generally enjoyed it and the meta at the time?  Like, were there pvp guilds around or something.

There is aways people complaining man, i wouldn't advice you to form your opinion based on forum posts, just play it and see if you enjoy it or not, because fun is subjective term. 

 

If you need any help pm me in game i will be happy to share my knowledge about the game and the classes i know.

 

Have a great day/night and have fun.

Edited June 28, 2021 by razaelll.8324

[Liewec.2896]

imho before feb 2020 it was good, bunkers were bunkery, zerker builds had big damage,

each class had a ton of builds that worked.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

I also liked it before 2/25/2020.

 

At its best would probably be back when every class had at least 1 meta build and everything was super overpowered, but also fun to play.

 

Now the game is just a slogfest. 😴💤

 

[Shadow Dragon.1469]

the balance patch before the first xpac(hot) when the game was still just core was the best not because it was core but because everything actually felt balanced for once i had zero complaints.... then hot came out pay to win as well as being balanced around pay to win and all went downhill from there gotta sell those xpacs ya know.

 

dont get me wrong ive had my fun with each xpac so far but ive never taken pvp seriously since the first one dropped because its never been balanced since, there has always been something kitten with it at some point or another.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Shadow Dragon.1469

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

The answer is relative. 

 

Oneshot meta was better than bunker meta.

Post-chronobunker culling was better than pre-chronobunker culling

Post mirage invuln chaining was better than pre-mirage invuln chaining.

Post oneshot backstab was better than pre-oneshot backstab.

etc etc turret engie. etc etc unblockable soulbeast. etc etc reaper and scourge, etc etc lightning rod ele.

 

There have always been annoying builds that have stuck out like sore thumbs and ruined the experience for a lot of people, but -over time- what constitutes annoyance has become less and less egregious, with some outliers. While the balance isnt perfect, at the very least it is -better- than it was. There's still a lot of work to be done though, and the turnaround time for adjusting things that are over/underperforming is frequently lacking imo. Add that to the fact that EoD is dropping soon and probably adding several more specs for the dev team to worry about balancing, and the errors are magnified.

 

The game isnt -bad- balance wise right now. It's just missing some things, and we're probably all panicking because if its not fixed by EOD it will probably be too buried to address. I think a targeted list of some underperforming builds getting damage bonuses that affect a few skills only relevant to those builds, a balance pass that focuses on making sure runes don't hard carry relatively weak specs, and some reworks to cds on specs that need a bit more defense buffer would go a long way. 

 

Perhaps we dont give the balance team enough credit for the efforts they do make, but its easy to lose focus when one to three button builds have all sorts of combat applications.

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Twigifire.8379]

I thought the Cologne tournament was a good meta, just after the trait changes but before HoT dropped. I can't really remember too many complaints after cele ele was nerfed.

[Arheundel.6451]

13 hours ago, vegetableknife.4561 said:

I just started playing a few months ago so the majority of what I've seen on the forums isn't necessarily positive.  Was there a time when sPvP was "good" and people generally enjoyed it and the meta at the time?  Like, were there pvp guilds around or something.

The honest answer here is : PvP was in a good state when GW1 original devs where still working at Anet, devs like John Peters, Jonathan Sharp and Isaiah Cartwright who basically were the main PvP devs keeping everything in shape, while maintaining a strong idea of fairness, meaning there was no super sayan mode for any profession, like now where they press 1-2 buttons and do everything while getting every possible boon...removing any weakness in the process even if temporarily. To put all of this in numbers, GW2 has been in the best shape from the entirety 2013 up to Aug 2015, after that the game devolved in an online glory hunting while abusing obviously busted mechanics and specs:

 

2015 HoT-

Dragonhunter: people with no previous knowledge of pvp, were reaching high positions by simply rushing on point and spamming all traps, simplistic gameplay, extremely effective and overly rewarding

Reaper: Just press F1 and do massive aoe dmg, off shroud just spamming staff

Daredevil: dodge spamming with 3 evasion bars plus evasion skill mechanics, there are videos of people dodging a total of 15 times back to back

Druid: stealth,  run, ancient seed spam...it was the unbeatable side duellist at HoT launch especially in WvW, this is where I started playing ranger seriously, dropping ele as favourite main, around this time John Peters one of the devs who left for Amazon, was considerate towards the ele concept and community...the last dev who would ever act this way, after he left, ele started to get hit with extremely biased and skewed "balance patches" with bias coming both from the community and the what was left of the "devs".

 

The following were not as busted at HoT launch but became after when "nerfs" started to rain

Herald: basically a heavy armor version of thief with more of everything, was extremely busted from 2016 till 2017, it had it all...all, top team started to abused herald to win tournaments

Berseker: pre-defense line huge nerfs and changes to burst mechanic, the condi variant of berseker was literally a 1hit KO burst with immense sustain and durability, a nightmare on sidenodes.

Chronomancer: the legendary busted tank, from 2016 to beginning of 2018 , we had this virtually unkillable monster that could tank an entire team in PvP in extreme cases. The condi variant was like the bogey man in WvW, there were like dozen of mesmers roaming on each map, laughing their way to the bank...

 

What's left, scrapper and tempest, were mostly decent throughout their existence with few shining occasions from a changing meta and the other, but Tempest especially was quickly brought down with nerfs, few months after it started to shine in light of nerfs another spec received before.

 

The 2nd expansion PoF was literally the same....just 10x worst overall in terms of balance and I expect EoD to be 20x time worst than PoF always considering balance. Basically GW2 at launch was pretty similar to GW1 in maintaining that sense of fairness and competitiveness, you were expected to put efforts for actual results and as a consequence -GW2 PvP was thriving at the time, we had like 4-5 times the number of people, world tournaments and an engaging atmosphere for small and big players .......then.......GW1 devs left and that brings us here to this point, GW2 is now just a PvE game with PvP arcade mode simulation, grossly unbalanced game, complete lack of fairness, clear class favouritism, biased commentary on all fronts, toxic community...all the focal point of a declining game at its final stages of life. This is your honest answer

Edited June 29, 2021 by Arheundel.6451

[Sereath.1428]

Anything (almost) before Feb 2020

[Ragnar.4257]

According to the forums, whatever the current state is, is the worst it has ever been.

[Seb De Tyra.3421]

9 hours ago, Shadow Dragon.1469 said:

the balance patch before the first xpac(hot) when the game was still just core was the best not because it was core but because everything actually felt balanced for once i had zero complaints.... then hot came out pay to win as well as being balanced around pay to win and all went downhill from there gotta sell those xpacs ya know.

 

dont get me wrong ive had my fun with each xpac so far but ive never taken pvp seriously since the first one dropped because its never been balanced since, there has always been something kitten with it at some point or another.

Having to pay for an expansion is P2W for you? You have no idea what P2W is.

[Arheundel.6451]

55 minutes ago, Seb De Tyra.3421 said:

Having to pay for an expansion is P2W for you? You have no idea what P2W is.

It's pay to win when all of sudden, overnight rather, a bunch of players you never seen before being consistent or even being able to be there before.....they all reach platinum and legendary...and they all play the same thing, we all experienced a meta where people became a PvP sensation within couple of weeks from HoT launch and they all happen to play DragonHunter and Reaper ,  for a good year , in soloq 3 matches out of 5 was with 2-3 dragonhunter per teams, and at least 2 reapers ......

 

Paying to have access to a skillset which allows you to reach a skill threshold you would not otherwise reach......that's the definition of Pay To Win. I played in the past and still play some nominated P2W games on mobile and even PC, in those games, people pay real money to gain access to specific generals or items that give an unfair advantage during PvP matches, like reducing enemy troops HP and defences by 45% or similar, without those generals/items, you get always defeated no matter your strategy.

 

Specs like dragonhunter and reaper were created to give an artificial boost to player's skill level ,no need to dodge, strategize too much...just rush on the point and press all utilities buttons(in dragon hunter full trap build) of press F1 and then press couple buttons ( reaper), lowered skill level=increased reward after paying money....that's P2W, no matter how you spin it.

 

Would the same player at time be able to reach same rank while using different spec/class?...HELL NO...so case closed really. These expansions are nothing more than cash grab with watered down mechanics aimed at the "whales" and their inflated ego, a false sense of merit that people will defend to their last breath while living in a delusion of their own creation.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Arheundel.6451

[Arheundel.6451]

And before the "usual suspects" come with their pointless L2P meme talk....yes you can win against all odds when you apply yourself and just play better, paying attention to every detail and generally rotating better but....the main issue is the existence of builds bringing results  even when not requiring any of what I've described. 

[Avatar.3568]

As many people already said, pre Feb patch 2020, was way better, it wasn't super good but it was easy to show that you are the better player and it was way better than the scourge firebrand meta we had before.

 

Best state was for me early 2015 before they reworked the trait system. You had plenty of options to choose to creat your build that matches your playstyle. No build was an absolut joke, most of the times players made the difference, we had 1-5 que which is a nice bonus on top, no unkillable bunkers, Glas canons where Glas canons. 

 

And there where no especs, which made the game more diversive but with the release of the first xpac, we also gained some stupid broken stuff. For a year (?) core classes where in every aspect worse than the espec versions. And there it started that pvp lost its glory, it gained a bit but when you see the current state of the game and know what the game was before you only can cry. 

People say there was a good meta before pof release but I can't say much about that

[torben.1532]

1 hour ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

It's pay to win when all of sudden, overnight rather, a bunch of players you never seen before being consistent or even being able to be there before.....they all reach platinum and legendary...and they all play the same thing, we all experienced a meta where people became a PvP sensation within couple of weeks from HoT launch and they all happen to play DragonHunter and Reaper ,  for a good year , in soloq 3 matches out of 5 was with 2-3 dragonhunter per teams, and at least 2 reapers ......

 

Paying to have access to a skillset which allows you to reach a skill threshold you would not otherwise reach......that's the definition of Pay To Win. I played in the past and still play some nominated P2W games on mobile and even PC, in those games, people pay real money to gain access to specific generals or items that give an unfair advantage during PvP matches, like reducing enemy troops HP and defences by 45% or similar, without those generals/items, you get always defeated no matter your strategy.

 

Specs like dragonhunter and reaper were created to give an artificial boost to player's skill level ,no need to dodge, strategize too much...just rush on the point and press all utilities buttons(in dragon hunter full trap build) of press F1 and then press couple buttons ( reaper), lowered skill level=increased reward after paying money....that's P2W, no matter how you spin it.

 

Would the same player at time be able to reach same rank while using different spec/class?...HELL NO...so case closed really. These expansions are nothing more than cash grab with watered down mechanics aimed at the "whales" and their inflated ego, a false sense of merit that people will defend to their last breath while living in a delusion of their own creation.

Bro do you consider world of Warcraft pay to win in pvp after each expansion? 
buying an expansion that offers stronger class options sure could be called p2w…except everyone has access to it at a very reasonable price and, may I say this, is expected to purchase it 

[schloumou.3982]

15 hours ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

Amonth befor hot was released. Was the best balance there was.

 

Agreed. There was a window between the trait system rework and the first addon, where the game felt really good.

Edited June 29, 2021 by schloumou.3982

[Khalisto.5780]

We had a time between nade holo and kitten we have now it was good, the better we've had since feb patch i guess

[Bazsi.2734]

I personally liked the pre-PoF patch times, that roughly two month period right before they dropped Path of Fire dead in the middle of a PvP season(that kinda shows how much they care about PvP lately).
There were also relatively well crafted metas before that, but since PoF dropped the balance is just awful. I think it's because none of the specs were designed with PvP in mind, so they either turned out to be busted OP or utterly useless. And 4 effing years wasn't enough for A-net to rework/redesign/rebalance that huge REDACTED.

So I'd say there are multiple right answers for when the best meta with the best balance took place, but it's definitely before september 22 of 2017.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Bazsi.2734

[Shadow Dragon.1469]

11 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

It's pay to win when all of sudden, overnight rather, a bunch of players you never seen before being consistent or even being able to be there before.....they all reach platinum and legendary...and they all play the same thing, we all experienced a meta where people became a PvP sensation within couple of weeks from HoT launch and they all happen to play DragonHunter and Reaper ,  for a good year , in soloq 3 matches out of 5 was with 2-3 dragonhunter per teams, and at least 2 reapers ......

 

Paying to have access to a skillset which allows you to reach a skill threshold you would not otherwise reach......that's the definition of Pay To Win. I played in the past and still play some nominated P2W games on mobile and even PC, in those games, people pay real money to gain access to specific generals or items that give an unfair advantage during PvP matches, like reducing enemy troops HP and defences by 45% or similar, without those generals/items, you get always defeated no matter your strategy.

 

Specs like dragonhunter and reaper were created to give an artificial boost to player's skill level ,no need to dodge, strategize too much...just rush on the point and press all utilities buttons(in dragon hunter full trap build) of press F1 and then press couple buttons ( reaper), lowered skill level=increased reward after paying money....that's P2W, no matter how you spin it.

 

Would the same player at time be able to reach same rank while using different spec/class?...HELL NO...so case closed really. These expansions are nothing more than cash grab with watered down mechanics aimed at the "whales" and their inflated ego, a false sense of merit that people will defend to their last breath while living in a delusion of their own creation.

 

thank you, saved me from having to type out a long response educating this guy

 

12 hours ago, Seb De Tyra.3421 said:

Having to pay for an expansion is P2W for you? You have no idea what P2W is.

 

nah apparently you don't lol i mean just look at your sentence....

 

8 hours ago, schloumou.3982 said:

 

Agreed. There was a window between the trait system rework and the first addon, where the game felt really good.

 

sigh good days (gw2 pvp) around those times that was also still when they had most of their passionate pvp team which have been fired or quit by this point.

[wondermuffin.9680]

I remember truly enjoying it before PoF was released. After PoF, it became a pain in every aspect.

[Swagg.9236]

GW2's PvP was never truly stellar.  From launch to HoT, it was clearly evident that the game had too few unique mechanics going for it, so the result of "PvP development" was effectively just a cat-and-mouse game between random damage increases and competing stall mechanic increases.  Everything got massive damage boosts, and when people complained that everybody was getting one-shot, attacks started getting evasion/invuln periods; basically the game started to play itself.

 

This sort of syndrome never healed, and HoT was sort of the final straw for any hope in a PvP meta defined by legitimate, fair, risk-reward interactions.  As it stands now, PvP is hardly any different than PvE:  it's very rotation-heavy an defined by a strict meta; builds mostly are allowed to do their best combos without interruption, and people just sort of play patty-cake in the background when all of their best skills are on cooldown.  To an extent, GW2 had always been like this, but it's consistently trended further and further down this hole as the years passed.  One could say that, despite its praise for the game's "innovating movement system" and "fluidity of play," the GW2 playerbase never wanted anything but a game that just played itself with minimal effort.