Should the public instance for the Marionette fight be permanently available?

[Astralporing.1957]

11 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Why though? its currently designed well, and you should be able to fail. We NEED harder content in open world 🙂

Let's put it this way. There's quite a number of hardcore players i know and recognize (including those that would usually be all for putting 250li and "kick after single mistake" barriers on private squad runs) that go into public runs now. Where they have no problem in being quiet and accepting of everyone else. Why? Because their chances of doing the content are better in public instance with semi-casuals than with other hardcores in private squad. That's how big of a difference those +30 people make.

[Raknar.4735]

13 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Let's put it this way. There's quite a number of hardcore players i know and recognize (including those that would usually be all for putting 250li and "kick after single mistake" barriers on private squad runs) that go into public runs now. Where they have no problem in being quiet and accepting of everyone else. Why? Because their chances of doing the content are better in public instance with semi-casuals than with other hardcores in private squad. That's how big of a difference those +30 people make.

 

In the end they don't actually want hard content, they just want the loot ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Danikat.8537]

8 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

 

In the end they don't actually want hard content, they just want the loot ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That's true of a lot of people in a lot of situations. How often have we seen topics asking for variations on a hard mode that basically come down to "slightly scale up the enemies HP and damage, then make all the loot far more valuable"?

 

It's not just GW2 either. I've been frustrated with my other MMO recently because people are forever complaining that it's too easy and boring and needs to be harder for the game to survive, then (for unrelated reasons) they added a daily achievement for killing 2 world bosses and I thought it would be a good oppertunity to get some of the harder ones done now there would be groups. So I went to various expansion maps where I hadn't been able to finish world bosses before and found maybe 3-4 low level players waiting (their world bosses are always up, unless they've just died and need to respawn). So I went to the first and easiest starter map bosses and found crowds of very high level players waiting for it to respawn so they could farm it over and over. That says to me that even when harder options are already available players don't actually want to do them unless the reward is much higher than the easier version.

 

I have to admit I've given up on private marionette squads as well and I'm only doing the public version, but that's largely because I've never been in a private squad which succeeded, even the well organised ones where everyone said they knew what to do and had an appropriate build, whereas I've only been in one public one which failed and that's because they tried to send everyone from one lane to help another and were surprised when too many enemies got through.

[Zappix.7928]

To keep it interesting maybe introduce some Marionette weapons that can be crafted as part of a collection?  Requiring sprockets, if memory serves me the mobs used to drop a lot of stuff in the lanes.  Maybe an achievement with a title like "Marionette Masher" or something that requires you to do X/XX/XXX amount of kills of Scarlets minions to keep with replay ability?  I know some will complain that it's a grind but at least it will be an optional grind.  If you enjoy the event you'll include it in daily world boss rotation with large group a bit like that giant glowy guy that gives the mystic coin.  Creative clockwork weapons that are a mix of cogs/gears/strings for bows could be puppet strings that fire an arrow that has cog on it.  I'm not very creative but you get the gist of what I'm saying.

[Astralporing.1957]

6 hours ago, Raknar.4735 said:

 

In the end they don't actually want hard content, they just want the loot ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Some do indeed (although in this case it's more about achievements, since the loot is even worse than the original Marionette had). Others simply prefer a personal challenge, not a challenge that is primarily based on difficulty of herding cats. Or, to be more precise, a challenging content that takes practically all the control over success out of your hands.

 

People that are in it for challenge like to think that they had a significant impact on success or fail of the fight. In Marionette encounter, they usually feel that only when they fail. It's not a very empowering feeling, quite the opposite.

[Zephire.8049]

6 hours ago, Raknar.4735 said:

 

In the end they don't actually want hard content, they just want the loot ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Or they want hard content but want a decent chance to succeed if they play well, not have a high chance of failure even if they play perfectly because 1/50 or 2/50 people dropped the ball or the game bugged out.

 

The actual mechanics of the fight aren't even hard, it's the relying on so many strangers and hoping a random bug doesn't insta-fail a lane that's hard. So it's no wonder people migrated to public given that there's no personal challenge and one person can't carry a group of 50.

 

Getting loot after 15-25 minutes of constant playing is nice as well. Much better than playing the same length only to get nothing through no fault of your own.

[Andy.5981]

3 minutes ago, Zephire.8049 said:

Or they want hard content but want a decent chance to succeed if they play well, not have a high chance of failure even if they play perfectly because 1/50 or 2/50 people dropped the ball or the game bugged out.

 

The actual mechanics of the fight aren't even hard, it's the relying on so many strangers and hoping a random bug doesn't insta-fail a lane that's hard. So it's no wonder people migrated to public given that there's no personal challenge and one person can't carry a group of 50.

 

Getting loot after 15-25 minutes of constant playing is nice as well. Much better than playing the same length only to get nothing through no fault of your own.

Quite agree, this is a game that people play to enjoy. Most don't want stuff handed to them on a plate, they want a sense of achievement when they get something. On the flipside they don't want stuff that is boring with a feeling that this is going to end badly. I think Marionette has struck a good balance.

What is noticeable in the Public Squads is that players are listening to the commanders. They are asking questions when unsure and by and large they are succeeding.

There was a massive thread a while back about encouraging people into raiding. If you want to start encouraging people into large scale events that take coordination then one thing you really need to do is make them fun. This event succeeds in this.

Well done Anet for giving us this event and please lets keep the Squads - Private and Public as they are. We have all had a pretty kitten year, some more than most, let us enjoy ourselves.

[dodgerrule.8739]

Keep it viable by adding guaranteed mystic coin drop.

[Xanadrine.4352]

On 7/14/2021 at 10:15 AM, zealex.9410 said:

Yes but the devs should then also buff the privwte squad rewards to incentivise doing it.

I dont have a prob with that. I do public and private, they should both have rewards, but maybe an extra reward for doing a private squad since its harder than public with less people. 

[Gorem.8104]

Private is harder with less but its still possible, even in public sometimes we have 10 people in a lane and we still manage it, the mobs inside are quite weak and if you don't kill yourself, its hard to die. 

 

All people really have to do is listen to commanders for their lane, which they are doing, so its great. This is teaching coordination! 

 

If public instances do end, then at least it'll still be a thing we can have later on with events or bonus events like this one. I really doubt once this week ends its gone forever. 

 

Plus making it available for only a week is a smart move, makes people actually get off their backsides and do it now. If it was always available it might be harder to fill maps

[Aikaterine.3057]

Yes, they definitely need to make it both public and private. I've done both and enjoyed the public far more given the many varieties of the different builds being played. As someone mentioned, the private squad can be a bit more picky, thus eliminating a lot of people who have just joined or returned to GW2 and aren't totally proficient with their skills. To be fair across the board, the Marionette fight needs to be open to both on a permanent basis.

[Raknar.4735]

4 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Some do indeed (although in this case it's more about achievements, since the loot is even worse than the original Marionette had). Others simply prefer a personal challenge, not a challenge that is primarily based on difficulty of herding cats. Or, to be more precise, a challenging content that takes practically all the control over success out of your hands.

 

People that are in it for challenge like to think that they had a significant impact on success or fail of the fight. In Marionette encounter, they usually feel that only when they fail. It's not a very empowering feeling, quite the opposite.

 

That's why I'm in favour of a implementations of jump pads or teleports between the platforms. Then your personal skill has more impact. It seems, however, that some of the "difficulty"-crowd are even against that, as it would make the fight less difficult (those are the ones my original comment is about Zephire.8049).

 

The public version is fine imo, but the squad one is "difficult" for the wrong reasons, as you correctly stated.

So the dissonance between the people that want to keep the marionette as is for "difficulty" reasons and the people that would rather have a better balanced encounter with more personal responsibility, but can't have it due to the first group, is hilarious.

 

Give in to the first crowd, as in keeping the marionette the way it is, and I doubt the content will survive long term, give in to the second one and the first one will start to cry about content getting nerfed because of the "casuals".

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Raknar.4735
harder -> more

[radium.7350]

I don't see this being issue of whether people will do it or not. Judging by how the votes are going, majority of people woud like it to stay as public and do it at least sometimes. We have many other events and bosses where you can get a bad map and not being able to the the event, still they exist and people do them regulary. It is the matter of going in right time.

 

If it would be just event that disappears for everyone and appears again time to time, it wouldn't bother me so much. But having it stay on private and taking away public version is sending clear message which parts of the playerbase they are serving. In time of writing this, 95,57% poll voters want the public version to stay and i wonder, does Anet really want to send message to this part of playerbase that their playstyle is not important enough to leave that content in?

[Manasa Devi.7958]

Lots of people will abandon this if there's no super desirable drop. It doesn't seem like there is one, unless I missed it or it hasn't dropped and/or been publicized yet.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Manasa Devi.7958

[radium.7350]

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Posted 3 minutes ago (edited)

Lots of people will abandon this if there's no super desirable drop. It doesn't seem like there is one, unless I missed it or it hasn't dropped and/or been publicized yet.

I saw in reddit someone posting them getting chak infusion from Twisted Marionette, so it is possible there is super desirable drop in there. Naturally can't take random post in reddit as 100% reliable, but we can't know for sure either way.

Edited July 19, 2021 by radium.7350

[Rasimir.6239]

2 hours ago, radium.7350 said:

I saw in reddit someone posting them getting chak infusion from Twisted Marionette, so it is possible there is super desirable drop in there. Naturally can't take random post in reddit as 100% reliable, but we can't know for sure either way.

They didn't get it from the marionette itself, but rather from the bonus week box. Like previous bonus events (e.g. boss rush week), those boxes do have a chance at rare infusions, but they're only here for the one week bonus event, not tied directly to the marionette.

[Dante.1763]

1 hour ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

They didn't get it from the marionette itself, but rather from the bonus week box. Like previous bonus events (e.g. boss rush week), those boxes do have a chance at rare infusions, but they're only here for the one week bonus event, not tied directly to the marionette.

Yup true, sad days though i havent gotten any 😞

[Luthan.5236]

Yes it should. Did not expect to be able to complete all the achievements. (But Wiki - explaining the mechanics - and good planning ... helped. I started from 0 cause I did not play this back then at the original release.)

 

The public mode really helped. Squad mode with only 50 people (1-2 players per platform) will be too hard. Essentially it would need everyone to play a perfect raid build (+ lots of experience) - to not fail should they accidentally get to be on a platform alone by themselves.

 

This makes it much more annoying than - for example - fractals, etc. (5 players needed there and others can make up for a weaker player. Here essentially 25 teams of 2 players and 25 times the team needs to be perfect.)

 

Though ... there could be an option to let a platform fail on purpose (and sending more players to the other platforms). Depends on how much you need at least to defend. (A squad might use 5 full pros with hardcore maxed dps to defend 1 lane ... splitting 45 on the 4 others while making 10 on the easier ones and more on the harder ones) ... maybe. I do not know if such strategies are possible and/or have been tried already.

[Koali.7012]

I think it could easily be thrown into the world boss table or maybe a new table that happens like every other day. Idk. I just think that keeping some kind of public option will keep it alive. It's such a good fight and newer players might not experience it if it's only available through lfg private instances. Thanks for bringing it back!

[Firebeard.1746]

On 7/18/2021 at 4:03 AM, Raknar.4735 said:

 

In the end they don't actually want hard content, they just want the loot ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

DING DING DING DING DING. We have a winner!

[Astralporing.1957]

5 hours ago, radium.7350 said:

I saw in reddit someone posting them getting chak infusion from Twisted Marionette, so it is possible there is super desirable drop in there.

It's from the additional reward boxes from the bonus daily. Which will go away tomorrow.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[TheGrimm.5624]

This should be set up on a timer like other World Bosses. After all the years this is still a fun fight that is not guaranteed to be won. Glad it was brought back but would prefer a public version remain as an option even on a limited timer if need be.

[Charley.1489]

Anet please make this a regular public event like the other world bosses

[Sirius.4510]

It would make sense for the frequency to go down to something more like Triple Trouble, but still be there for people who want to play it at a reduced difficulty level. Due to time constraints it's looking like I'll have to hunt for private squads to complete a few of the achievements - that will be... interesting 🙂

[Dayra.7405]

Make the Public Marionet as it is a "Hard World Boss" like Teq or TT such that it can be done a few times a day at scheduled times.