What kind of DIFFICULTY would you like for EoD open world maps? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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What kind of DIFFICULTY would you like for EoD open world maps?

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  • Oxstar.7643Oxstar.7643 Member ✭✭✭
    PoF-difficulty

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:
    Difficulty that would encourage people to team up while playing a multiplayer game :)

    Are you proposing some sort of.. MMO? Where people have to ask for help, team up, overcome challenges, form communities and bonds and possibly play together for years to come, staying engaged with the game?
    Rather than some instant gratification train, walzing through the content in a week or two in "alone together" GW2 fashion and then quitting until the next content drop months down the line?
    Madness.

    I think you should have both. Not everybody wants to team up with strangers for all the content, and some just are not the soecial butterfly who makes enough friends to always have people to rely on. Balance is hard, as it usually is, but it seems to me ANet are trying to find a middle ground. The vast majority cannot solo legendary group events for instance, and those who can are honestly skilled to the point where they've earned it.

  • Cuks.8241Cuks.8241 Member ✭✭✭
    HoT-difficulty

    I don't think Hot is more difficult than Pof. I did vote Hot because I like it more and I hope they reintroduce the champ HPs and meta events that ain't just 111 train (LS5) or can be done by 3 people (Pof, most of them). Hot meta at least require some coordination of all the participants on the map.

  • sorudo.9054sorudo.9054 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Lower than PoF-difficulty

    the start should always be core easiness, the rest should be PoF or easier. (without the frikin annoying over aggro enemies)

    the truth is harsh, my opinions are too.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Higher than HoT-difficulty

    Depends on how the difficulty is achieved. Groups of mobs with tons of chained hard CC and extra health is not particularly interesting as a challenge to me.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 21, 2021

    @sorudo.9054 said:
    the start should always be core easiness

    Why?
    It's not like you're starting a new game every time you go into a new expansion. Not only you know more about the game and its mechanics (well, at least you should), but also you're getting new tools at your disposal with expansions. Suddenly reverting to the initial difficulty despite all of that doesn't make sense to me. So why do you think it should always start like that?

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 20, 2021
    Higher than HoT-difficulty

    @Oxstar.7643 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:
    Difficulty that would encourage people to team up while playing a multiplayer game :)

    Are you proposing some sort of.. MMO? Where people have to ask for help, team up, overcome challenges, form communities and bonds and possibly play together for years to come, staying engaged with the game?
    Rather than some instant gratification train, walzing through the content in a week or two in "alone together" GW2 fashion and then quitting until the next content drop months down the line?
    Madness.

    I think you should have both. Not everybody wants to team up with strangers for all the content, and some just are not the soecial butterfly who makes enough friends to always have people to rely on. Balance is hard, as it usually is, but it seems to me ANet are trying to find a middle ground. The vast majority cannot solo legendary group events for instance, and those who can are honestly skilled to the point where they've earned it.

    Absolutely, but I don't think GW2 is in any danger of not having >95% of it's content be doable with auto attacking solo.
    Plenty, if not the majority of at least OW and Story content should imo be soloable, but I do think it's equally if not more important in an MMO to have certain areas, progression and rewards at least soft-gated behind group activities.

    Being the opposite of a social butterfly myself I always hated the idea of being forced to group/having to ask for help, but with more maturity, experience in game design and witnessing the effects of almost complete lack of that on a community in GW2, it really made me realise how vital those points are for an MMO especially.
    Always catering to that social anxiety just reinforces it and keeps players isolated, not as engaged with the game/with higher risk of burning out as well as hindering player growth through exchange and example.

    Whenever I look back to memorable MMO experiences in the past 1-2 decades, it's almost exclusively those experiences of having to group up for some character or story progression moment, meeting people, forming communities etc.*, maybe a few moments of overcoming some though challenge alone, and next to non of running around alone hitting mobs which aren't remotely a threat.

    GW2 for the last 2 years almost exclusively focused on providing the latter. If that doesn't change at least to a noticeable degree with EoD - with it turning out akin to PoF, I just don't see it having much longevity, at a very crucial point for the game.

    Too much of something is always bad, even if it is convenience.

    *having to group up and people asking/coming for help for things like Hero Points in beta/early unnerfed HoT being one of those great experiences, and imo a golden age for GW2

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Lower than PoF-difficulty

    I think that map completion, including Hero Challenges and hearts, and the story should be viable to be done alone.
    I used WvW to complete many HoT skill challenges (and some of PoF) because people simply didn't care to join me.

    But there should also be ample group content outside of that.
    Meta Events, smaller Group Events, a variety of instanced content - there is so much that could be done that doesn't interfere with map completion and the story.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Higher than HoT-difficulty

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    I think that map completion, including Hero Challenges and hearts, and the story should be viable to be done alone.
    I used WvW to complete many HoT skill challenges (and some of PoF) because people simply didn't care to join me.

    But there should also be ample group content outside of that.
    Meta Events, smaller Group Events, a variety of instanced content - there is so much that could be done that doesn't interfere with map completion and the story.

    I do think that (people not caring to join) is largely a symptom of the current design which heavily consists of easy non-repeatable solo play, which then also leaves players often underprepared for challenges and without the infrastructure/network for grouping - rather than the problem being the semi-mandatory challenging/grouping sections themselves.

    If the content (like for example Hero Challenges) was per design much more difficult, requiring much higher level play or grouping, but also much more rewarding to repeat, come back to and help out - and people also being much more used to grouping, friendlisting and having active, helpful guilds in general (due to it being a necessity much more often) - those things, rather than being a rare annoyance that the average player grew frightful of or frustrated with, would be a lot more fulfilling, engaging and memorable experiences of grouping, meeting people and helping out, rather than just players walking through the world/maps solo like a checklist.

    GW2's problem, imo, is that 99% of the content is incredibly easy and soloable, making the 1% that isn't extremely frustrating or daunting for the average player.
    While if that was more balanced, with the game encouraging much more (gradual) skill increases in players and/or the formation and maintaining of social networks within the game, the whole experience would be a lot more engaging and memorable - and things like tough HP's or even content like Fractals, Strikes and Raids a lot more accessible for a lot more players, due to pre-existing groups and communities to play with and slimmer skill gaps.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Cuks.8241Cuks.8241 Member ✭✭✭
    HoT-difficulty

    @Asum.4960 said:
    GW2's problem, imo, is that 99% of the content is incredibly easy and soloable, making the 1% that isn't extremely frustrating or daunting for the average player.
    While if that was more balanced, with the game encouraging much more (gradual) skill increases in players and/or the formation and maintaining of social networks within the game, the whole experience would be a lot more engaging and memorable - and things like tough HP's or even content like Fractals, Strikes and Raids a lot more accessible for a lot more players, due to pre-existing groups and communities to play with and slimmer skill gaps.

    Fully agree with this. There has to be a certain amount of content that requires grouping. And from my experience with other mmorpgs it is beneficial for the community that such content is also present in open world. This way these groups are not isolated in instances and practically unseen by the rest of the community and promote further socialising.

    @Asum.4960 said:
    Whenever I look back to memorable MMO experiences in the past 1-2 decades, it's almost exclusively those experiences of having to group up for some character or story progression moment, meeting people, forming communities etc.*, maybe a few moments of overcoming some though challenge alone, and next to non of running around alone hitting mobs which aren't remotely a threat.

    My experience also. Pretty much all my memorable experiences from multiplayer games come from group activities, community drama, socializing. It's usually not even some in-game challenge but just funny community events, conversations or tensions between different groups. The most boring grind can be fun if done with a group of people and the most interesting boss will fade away fast if it's just another solo endeavour.

  • Luthan.5236Luthan.5236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Between HoT and PoF-difficulty

    Hero points maybe soloable (most of them) - like it was in PoF. (All of them easy to solo there - if you have a char with okay-ish gear and experience with your class. New players rushing directly to 80 always might have trouble though.)

    Other open world content can be harder. To make the "exploring" more fun. For the meta events I'd love to see something like in HoT. They were great. Especially the ones where you had to help the outposts. (Verdant Brink and a bit Tangled Depths.)

  • HoT-difficulty

    In order for it to be both fun and fair if the trash mobs...
    1. ... have knockdown skills then I would like a skill warm up bar for them.
    2. ... have immunity/evasion phases then I would like a way to interrupt them.

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  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Higher than HoT-difficulty

    @Redfeather.6401 said:
    In order for it to be both fun and fair if the trash mobs...
    1. ... have knockdown skills then I would like a skill warm up bar for them.
    2. ... have immunity/evasion phases then I would like a way to interrupt them.

    Difficulty definitely can't just be numerical (high health and damage) or be cheap/annoying (oneshots, instant CC's).
    I just wish Anet would make greater use of all the already existing mechanics and with greater creativity.

    Have mobs that run around wildly and are hard to damage while having Swiftness, but bring some boon strip and they become snared and vulnerable.
    Give mobs big AoE CC's/nukes, dangerous buffs in PvE like Retaliation or invuln/evade phases, but telegraph them properly with Breakbars which can be used to interrupt them, making them more vulnerable instead.
    Give some mobs really dangerous opening attacks that need to be dodged, other's enrage at low health values with Might, Fury and Quickness and need to be bursted/kited.
    Give some mobs heavy projectile barrages akin to Bristleback's in HoT.
    Have some mobs briefly stun themselves when their attacks are blocked, but otherwise are really dangerous.

    Just give different professions opportunities to shine and struggle. Create rewarding difficulty by allowing players to learn tells and patterns. Teach and reward use of game mechanics and ability to adapt. Reward game knowledge.

    Nobody wants to get oneshot, roleplay a ping pong ball, make some tea while a Mob dances around evading for a minute or aggro half the map walking somewhere. That's not what (imo good difficulty) has to be though.
    Running always the same (often lacklustre) build, not knowing when and how to use half of the game mechanics such as CC, dodges, projectile denial, boon strip etc. and just pressing buttons at random/off cooldown just should not cut it in max level, especially expansion, content though in my opinion.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Poormany.4507Poormany.4507 Member ✭✭✭
    Between HoT and PoF-difficulty

    As long as every other enemy does not have instant knockdowns/stuns (PoF), I'm fine with anything from PoF to HoT levels of difficulty.

  • Astyrah.4015Astyrah.4015 Member ✭✭✭✭
    HoT-difficulty

    @Redfeather.6401 said:
    In order for it to be both fun and fair if the trash mobs...
    1. ... have knockdown skills then I would like a skill warm up bar for them.
    2. ... have immunity/evasion phases then I would like a way to interrupt them.

    this. i also prefer HoT openworld difficulty for the new expansion and would like interesting trash mob abilities but only if they are well telegraphed/indicated/etc.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Higher than HoT-difficulty

    I am not looking for unfair, but I want to be entertained.

  • PoF-difficulty

    I voted PoF difficulty, although I have not yet experienced it (I've only ventured into HoT maps at this stage). Reason being that people say it is between core and HoT.

    I am not the most elite/capable player and if I'm not careful when walking around HoT areas, I tend to get my pants handed to me immediately. I am really hoping the new open world areas do not damage you on the same level.

  • notebene.3190notebene.3190 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Between HoT and PoF-difficulty

    Because I think they were each challenging and sometimes not for different reasons at different times. What makes them great is they aren't each other. I hope EoD is a third thing.

    In the event I don't get a chance, thank you all for the company and help when I needed it from time to time.

  • I just do not want to see ever again mobs with an absurd amount of Health like in Drizzlewood Coast North

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Lower than PoF-difficulty

    I choose Lower than PoF-difficulty, but the optimal it Tyria 20-30lv common map for me

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Mortifera.6138Mortifera.6138 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Lower than PoF-difficulty

    I like easy mode — I get to feel powerful one-shorting everything.

  • Shadowmoon.7986Shadowmoon.7986 Member ✭✭✭✭
    HoT-difficulty

    Compare hot maps vs pof maps a year after launch. No matter what the vocal minority on this forum and in game journalism say, people want challenging content. Abandoning this content has been a mistake.

  • Fractured.3928Fractured.3928 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 22, 2021

    The only thing I want, is clear paths around the maps. I'm so sick of high level maps just being ABSOLUTELY COVERED IN BADDIES ALL THE TIME FOREVER. Just getting from Point A to B can be extremely frustrating sometimes, when I feel like it shouldn't be.

    It is a difficulty in the game I've always felt was unnecessary.

  • Higher than HoT-difficulty

    I'm fine with more than HoT difficulty. We have already 2 elite specs (possibly will have 3?), power creep, build diversity and playing experiences. People still help each other and keep playing on HoT content, but not much in PoF content.
    I hope that the EoD enemies have intelligence and coordination as we do.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @arielwind.8921 said:
    People still help each other and keep playing on HoT content, but not much in PoF content.

    Probably due to the rewards structure more than anything else.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Evil.1580Evil.1580 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Higher than HoT-difficulty

    Pre nerf HoT-difficulty for sure.

    Wishlist:
    Improve GW2 performance. Add genuine DX12 support.

  • Higher than HoT-difficulty

    This game has an amazing combat system,. best in any mmo I've played.

    But that doesn't matter if you're never required to use it, if you never have to dodge, or use your condition cleanse, or stealth, then those mechanics might as well not even exist at all. please give us a reason to use them.

  • Higher than HoT-difficulty

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @arielwind.8921 said:
    People still help each other and keep playing on HoT content, but not much in PoF content.

    Probably due to the rewards structure more than anything else.

    personally, i play HoT more because its just more fun, the metas require you to play the game where as the metas for PoF just require you to get in a squad and auto attack.

    The danger of the HoT maps makes it feel good when you conquer them, where the PoF maps feel like less of a game and more of a movie, the story is great but the maps are easy.

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭✭
    HoT-difficulty

    I want:

    (1) HoT-like encounters with the enemy: if you try to go toe-to-toe with these mobs without a solid handle on how you play your class and build, they can easily overwhelm you. At the same time, it's not hard to build against this, and just a modicum of practice solves most problems. Only a few mobs had noticeably difficult cc patterns to manage, and after a few rounds it wasn't hard to figure out what to do.

    (2) PoF-like density : sentient enemies often have outposts on the map that serve as operating bases, and outside of those areas you see them either trying to hold a strategic area in force, or have isolated patrol groups. The more open and barren areas with no camps or civilization generally features wildlife or monsters like the Branded. This would make sense to me as Cantha, like Elona, is a place where people have carved out safe places for noncombatants to live, so it's not a completely untamed area like Mordremoth's version of the Maguuma Jungle.

    (3) reasonable aggro patterns: like many have already mentioned in this thread, I dislike the aggro range on a lot of the PoF mobs. However, I do think it makes sense that if you aggro one member of a patrol group, the entire group is alerted. I just don't like having to deal with the group, then some random veteran sand shark tossing me skyward because the 2 patrolling hydras nearby also aggroed and ate through my stability stacks and dodges while the local sand lion family showed up to blind me. Nothing I can't manage, but the encounters just take 3x longer than they really should IMO. I'd like to see more instances of the sentient enemies fighting the wildlife when their paths cross, somewhat like the vinetooth enemies occasionally stomping on packs of pocket raptors as you run past both in HoT.

  • Dreamy Lu.3865Dreamy Lu.3865 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Between HoT and PoF-difficulty

    I find it difficult to answer that. Personally, I find PoF a pain, because the amount of foes (up to every little corners and even at WPs), is spoiling the pleasure of going there for explorable. I don't care to kill, foes are not so hard, but it's just so much boring to me - even fastidious - to have to do that every 5 steps I do. I have stopped returning to those areas due to that (of course, I can cross safely on skyscale, but that's not what I mean as exploring LOL). All in all, for me, in an expansion pack, there should be areas of all types, each offering same level of content (not only the hard ones). GW2 is a game with a wide variety of players and ways of playing, and the expansion pack should maintain this variety. Personal opinion of course. :)

    WvW server: Henge of Denravi

  • sorudo.9054sorudo.9054 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Lower than PoF-difficulty

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @sorudo.9054 said:
    the start should always be core easiness

    Why?
    It's not like you're starting a new game every time you go into a new expansion. Not only you know more about the game and its mechanics (well, at least you should), but also you're getting new tools at your disposal with expansions. Suddenly reverting to the initial difficulty despite all of that doesn't make sense to me. So why do you think it should always start like that?

    because not everyone started out playing 8 years ago, some ppl play when EoD launches, that's why.

    the truth is harsh, my opinions are too.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 26, 2021

    @sorudo.9054 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @sorudo.9054 said:
    the start should always be core easiness

    Why?
    It's not like you're starting a new game every time you go into a new expansion. Not only you know more about the game and its mechanics (well, at least you should), but also you're getting new tools at your disposal with expansions. Suddenly reverting to the initial difficulty despite all of that doesn't make sense to me. So why do you think it should always start like that?

    because not everyone started out playing 8 years ago, some ppl play when EoD launches, that's why.

    It's irrelevant, you didn't need to start playing 8 years ago, you still should go through the available content/expantions. If you skip riiight into the latest parts of the game before completing previous ones then... you know, it's your choice and it's on you. Right?

    To put it in slightly different terms: as a player in many games you're free to skip the tutorial. But if you do it, you're not exactly in place of making a complaint that there's no repeated tutorial after 70% of the game you've played through. If for some reason now you need to play through the tutorial to learn something you didn't on your way here then... you go back to the tutorial (or easier parts of the game to practice). And luckily you can do exactly that in this game, because it's not linear and the previous content doesn't disappear just because you've skipped it or played through it once.

  • Higher than HoT-difficulty

    We have mounts and a lot of busted specs and viable builds now, even for core classes, It's Cantha, as a Gw1 player, I want it hard as " Kitten" so I need to use my brain to not die like a squirrel in a blunder.

  • PoF-difficulty

    I said PoF difficulty, b/c I definitely didn't want HoT difficulty, but now I'm remembering some of the places in PoF where I died repeatedly and I feel maybe that was the wrong choice.

    I was thinking that coming in to a new expansion at release time instead of years later might be better for me since there would be more people around to hang out and run thru the maps with.

    Now that I'm all caught up I'm hoping to be able to keep up :)

  • Cynder.2509Cynder.2509 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Higher than HoT-difficulty

    I know it's kinda offtopic and i already have given my answer previously in this thread but I just had a neat idea since I picked up in gw1 Factions story again. The idea involves a new mastery point system which will allow us to further develop a new thing that previously existed in gw1. Heroes! The masteryies could be that you can purchase new skills and recruit new unique heroes for your team. Couldn't find the EoD suggestion thread right now so I picked this one.
    I actually enjoyed the heroes system and it would be cool to see it return somehow.

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  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Lower than PoF-difficulty

    @Cynder.2509 said:
    I know it's kinda offtopic and i already have given my answer previously in this thread but I just had a neat idea since I picked up in gw1 Factions story again. The idea involves a new mastery point system which will allow us to further develop a new thing that previously existed in gw1. Heroes! The masteryies could be that you can purchase new skills and recruit new unique heroes for your team. Couldn't find the EoD suggestion thread right now so I picked this one.
    I actually enjoyed the heroes system and it would be cool to see it return somehow.

    Are you certain you played Factions?
    Heroes were introduced with Nightfall.

  • Tukaram.8256Tukaram.8256 Member ✭✭✭
    PoF-difficulty

    @Cynder.2509 said:
    I know it's kinda offtopic and i already have given my answer previously in this thread but I just had a neat idea since I picked up in gw1 Factions story again. The idea involves a new mastery point system which will allow us to further develop a new thing that previously existed in gw1. Heroes! The masteryies could be that you can purchase new skills and recruit new unique heroes for your team. Couldn't find the EoD suggestion thread right now so I picked this one.
    I actually enjoyed the heroes system and it would be cool to see it return somehow.

    I would LOVE to have Heroes again. I have asked for it many times, myself.
    As for difficulty I voted for PoF. I really enjoyed PoF, and never warmed up to HoT. Too many things I disliked there. PoF was great fun to explore. I just do not like the hearts that reset - once I unlock it, it should stay unlocked!