Vindicator Feedback Thread

[Katary.7096]

Vindicator would have probably been better off if their new gimmick had either been the flip-over legend skills or the special dodge abilities, not both at the same time. That way the one new feature could be much more fleshed out. Of course that is too drastic of a change to make before the expansion is released, but perhaps there can be a rework in a couple of years...

[Obtena.7952]

The more I think about it, the more I think each legend should have it's own skillbar and F2 should flip the legend being used in the Legend slot. It just gives players something they will always appreciate: choice. 

[Jthug.9506]

I bet they don't change the flip over stuff at all, I just hope they at least add some hard cc somewhere, and fix the urn.

[Jthug.9506]

IMO Vassals of The Empire:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vassals_of_the_Empire
would be a lot cooler if it were 10 target. It might actually see play.

[wolfyrik.2017]

On 10/12/2021 at 4:12 AM, Obtena.7952 said:

The more I think about it, the more I think each legend should have it's own skillbar and F2 should flip the legend being used in the Legend slot. It just gives players something they will always appreciate: choice. 

My suggestion was to have the heal and the elite be static (urn without self damage and some changes becomes the heal) but do the swapping. ie heal flips utils to Viki, Elite flips utils to Archie. At least this would maintain the "flip" idea, it would just take out the chaos and the constant focus on the UI.

I feel like just switching between the two is indistinguishable from Alliance basically getting a 3rd legend slot. Which is boring but may actually be better than the current design.

The only other thing that would make the flipping mechanic usable would be to have every skill perform the exact same basic function eg 1. stun break 2. condi cleanse 3. Retreat.

If we're talking about only performing the most minor changes, Battle Dance and Nomad's Advance should be renamed and have their movement swapped. There's just no need to have forward motion as the first (on top?) utility, when weapons and dodge already have the player advancing. Having the evade backward first would flow so much better, I think, allowing for the player to return to the advance or regain advantage through the newly flipped skill, the dodge or the weapon movement skills.

Battle dance also makes no sense as a retreat because it's purpose is to grant boons to other players, the players will be closer to the enemy not further away from it. You need to move towards your allies. Having it retreat makes no sense. Nomad should either drop damage in exechange for the evade backwards or should damage and then evade backwards, like the old rocket boots....but with evade frames.

Edited October 13, 2021 by wolfyrik.2017

[Catchyfx.5768]

After few weeks thinking about vindi and reading in this topic I realize, how all traitline is just bandage for dodge change.

 

Merge master with their relative grandmaster ? And there will be room for some juice.

 

And im missing some combo finishers(gs3,2?) Or fields(urn).  Maybe I played more other proffesions, so i get used to have them. Nothing on Vindi.

 

Idk man. 

Wanna try it after the addative->multiplitic change, if it will be more squishier or not.

 

But im missing GS so atleast one good change.

[Zikory.6871]

Scrap Vindicator. Give Herald GS. Call it a day. 

[wolfyrik.2017]

10 hours ago, Zikory.6871 said:

Scrap Vindicator. Give Herald GS. Call it a day. 

 This is basically what I said about scrapper at HoT launch. Delete it, delete the crappy AI utils, delete the shabby traits and the almost completely worthless function gyro, give engi the hammer.

That's all changed now. Scrapper, after 5 years, is redeemed.

With luck Anet will make changes to Vin now, rather than launching with it as is and save themselves work over the next 5 years.

[Duke Blackrose.4981]

What if your major Adept traits determined your Alliance Utilities.

 

Luxon Trait - Lose access to St Viktor utilities. Alliance Tactics becomes Luxon Tactics, which refreshes Luxon skill cooldowns and grants a damage buff. Takes longer to cool down.

 

Kurzick Trait - Lose access to Archemorus utilities. Alliance Tactics becomes Kurzick Tactics which refreshes Kurzick cooldowns and grants a stacking benevolence buff. Takes longer to cool down.

 

Alliance Trait - as is.

[Zikory.6871]

7 hours ago, wolfyrik.2017 said:

 This is basically what I said about scrapper at HoT launch. Delete it, delete the crappy AI utils, delete the shabby traits and the almost completely worthless function gyro, give engi the hammer.

That's all changed now. Scrapper, after 5 years, is redeemed.

With luck Anet will make changes to Vin now, rather than launching with it as is and save themselves work over the next 5 years.

Meh, tbh other then the dodge. I don't mind Vind or the ally skills. Just as a WvW player, Vindicator isn't going to see much play. Less damage then Herald and weaker support then FB/scrapper. It'll be like tablet, could do some neat stuff but won't be a common elite to bring. 

I liked GS and herald is just to good for Group content in WvW, so meme comment. 

That said, I'd like to be wrong but I don't see the dodge and lack of CC skills on Vindicator being a good thing for a WvW class. 

PvE and stuff, no comment. 

[lombomon.7268]

I'll try and sum up my (PvE only) thoughts here. I'll be taking into account that big sweeping overhauls at this stage of development are less likely and instead I'll suggest a couple number tweaks that would hopefully be easier to implement and keep the vision of the devs intact.

 

Profession Mechanic:

1. Energy Meld: In addition to its previous effects, grant the Vindicator 2.5 seconds of Vigor.

Traits:

1. Leviathan Strength: This trait is good but is crippled by the fact that it doubles the cooldown of F2. I suggest making the cooldown increase 10 seconds instead of 20.
2. Forerunner of Death: The DPS dodge feels a little odd since it has a requirement of 100 more endurance than the heal dodge, for example. Granted, it is a very powerful attack and also grants a 15 second damage bonus, so it having a long charge time makes sense, but a slight tweak may be helpful in making it more accessible since dodging is a very core part of the flow of combat in GW2. Reduce the extra endurance required for this dodge from 50 to 40.

Legendary Alliance Stance:

1. Urn of Saint Viktor: This skill just feels clunky to me. However, I respect the devs trying to go for a very unique take on a support skill. I think it could do with some improvements to help players take advantage of the health threshold bonuses from dropping the urn and for it to not restrict the player's choices as much. Increase movement speed from 50% to 66%. Reduce upkeep from 10 to 8. Add pulsing barrier (~400 + 0.08 * healing power) each interval to the player (this does NOT affect allies, only the Vindicator). The continuous damage taken will bypass barrier and apply directly to health.
2. Drop Urn of Saint Viktor: Hopefully my suggested changes to the Urn's upkeep skill will make the drop skill easier to use. However, reducing the activation time will also help reduce the clunky feeling as well as make cycling back to the Spear of Archemorous easier for DPS builds. Reduce activation time from 1 second to 3/4 of a second.

[Catchyfx.5768]

2 hours ago, Zikory.6871 said:

Meh, tbh other then the dodge. I don't mind Vind or the ally skills. Just as a WvW player, Vindicator isn't going to see much play. Less damage then Herald and weaker support then FB/scrapper. It'll be like tablet, could do some neat stuff but won't be a common elite to bring. 

I liked GS and herald is just to good for Group content in WvW, so meme comment. 

That said, I'd like to be wrong but I don't see the dodge and lack of CC skills on Vindicator being a good thing for a WvW class. 

PvE and stuff, no comment. 

Yes this,

 

Herald is mechanicly just briliant. Not overpowered, just have lot of tools, and good traits.

Renegade is just buffed via numbers, and I'm scared Vindi will get same treatment. Mechanicly not that good but numbers thru the roof.

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, Catchyfx.5768 said:

Yes this,

 

Herald is mechanicly just briliant. Not overpowered, just have lot of tools, and good traits.

Renegade is just buffed via numbers, and I'm scared Vindi will get same treatment. Mechanicly not that good but numbers thru the roof.

I actually disagree with Zikory on this. If Vindicator greatsword gets a damage boost it could be more viable than herald because outside of hammer COR and the long cast time phase smash there's not much damage to be had on herald exclusively anymore, sword doesn't have 5 target damage sources.

Vindicator could function similar to scrapper or core warrior but a bit less tanky stat-wise if the damage is boosted on greatsword. Greatsword hits 5 targets and the only thing that really cleaves 5 targets right now on auto is photon forge.

Current damage coefficients in WVW as I calculated during the beta:
GS 1 : 0.6, 0.6, 0.85  coefficient  all hitting 5 targets
GS 2 : 1.36 coefficient (5 targets) , 7s cooldown
GS 3: 1.18 coefficient (5 targets) gap closer similar to warrior's GS, 15s cooldown
GS 4: a block , that's the main use
GS 5: 24 impact AOE (3 targets per strike) with 0.9 coefficient on first strike and 9s duration, 360 radius and 900 range on 20s cooldown--- similar to invoke lightning on elementalist but with a larger range

Rev sword coefficients in WVW, keep in mind sword has 1K weapon strength not 1.1K:
auto: 0.4, 0.466 , 0.6 +0.145 rift damage hitting 3 targets for all strikes
sword 2 : 0.5 coefficient vs more than 1 target, 8s cooldown on up to 5 targets
sword 3: 0.38 coefficient and up to 5 hits = 1.9 coefficient , 15s cooldown
sword 4: 0.1+1.0 = 1.1 total coefficient on 3 targets
sword 5: 0.1 +1.7 = 1.8 total coefficient, single target

Hammer in WVW (also 1.1K weapon strength):
auto : 0.633 with double the activation time so you get one hit per 1.25s
hammer 2 (COR): 1.15 coefficient , 10 cooldown
hammer 3 / phase smash: 1.2 coefficient , 12 cooldown

Glint legend in WVW:
Elemental blast: 0.89 * 3 pulses  = 2.67 coefficient on 5 targets plus 3 stacks of burning , 15s cooldown
Burst of strength:  7% damage mod and 1.0 coefficient , 15s cooldown

Alliance legend in WVW:
Nomad's Advance: 2.0 coefficient on 5 targets, 10s cooldown
Scavenger Dash: 1.25 coefficient on 5 targets plus 8s burning, 10s cooldown
Reaver's Rage: 1.25 coefficient on 5 targets , 10s cooldown (plus stunbreaks)
Imperial Impact dodge: 1.25 coefficient on 5 targets --- on par with engineer's Explosive entrance (Warrior's Reckless dodge was nerfed to 0.5 for WVW)

For reference with marauder + scholar rune:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmgAIFlZSHsTyhlSNMU6hpSfsSKgp6lZ0F-zVRYBRFIG+yIzUoiKw2DQA7hXDFOjA-w

defensive Invocation & Retribution variant with barrier dodge:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmQAIlZSHsTyhlSNMU6hpSfsSKgFtUd0H-zVRYBRBIG+yIzEoiCw2DQAbgXDFOjA-w

In either case  GS2 has 1.8K tooltip which is respectable , GS3 is 1.5K on par with hammer 2 (COR).

Edited October 14, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Zikory.6871]

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

I actually disagree with Zikory on this. If Vindicator greatsword gets a damage boost it could be more viable than herald because outside of hammer COR and the long cast time phase smash there's not much damage to be had on herald exclusively anymore, sword doesn't have 5 target damage sources.

That's a pretty close minded way to look at it. If it was just about damage, I wouldn't bring Herald or Vindicator as there are already classes that can out damage both in melee and at range. 

Buffing Greatsword doesn't change Herald traits being better. Glint legend being better. 2 dodges probably being better. 

And tbh, probably won't happen. Why would they give it Berserker like damage and have the nonsense support stuff. Its going to be a niche hybrid class a handful of people play because they like it that gets stuck in bad parties unless they are in a guild. So renegade. 

[Infusion.7149]

18 minutes ago, Zikory.6871 said:

That's a pretty close minded way to look at it. If it was just about damage, I wouldn't bring Herald or Vindicator as there are already classes that can out damage both in melee and at range. 

Buffing Greatsword doesn't change Herald traits being better. Glint legend being better. 2 dodges probably being better. 

And tbh, probably won't happen. Why would they give it Berserker like damage and have the nonsense support stuff. Its going to be a niche hybrid class a handful of people play because they like it that gets stuck in bad parties unless they are in a guild. So renegade. 

Renegade doesn't have Greatsword , it loses crit chance on dodge, and the renegade spawns die in AOE. As stated in the vindicator rune thread, there really isn't that much "support" from vindicator unless you consider heals with 0.22 heal coefficients to be support and the meme urn.

Power scrapper is a "support" also power DH with S.Y.G. / stance share soulbeast / power scourge / blood magic power reaper / power prot holo if you look at it that way. Is power berserker a support if you tack on shouts and a banner? That's basically what you see in vindicator , any support is from saint victor trait and alliance utilities.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Zikory.6871]

52 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Renegade doesn't have Greatsword , it loses crit chance on dodge, and the renegade spawns die in AOE. As stated in the vindicator rune thread, there really isn't that much "support" from vindicator unless you consider heals with 0.22 heal coefficients to be support and the meme urn.

Power scrapper is a "support" also power DH with S.Y.G. / stance share soulbeast / power scourge / blood magic power reaper / power prot holo if you look at it that way. Is power berserker a support if you tack on shouts and a banner? That's basically what you see in vindicator , any support is from saint victor trait and alliance utilities.

Kinda my point. You basically just listed a bunch of classes that don't get much active play or have to sacrifice damage to support. Vindicator on the other hand is stuck with its bad support skills. 

So even if Greatsword is buffed. It alone would not be enough to call it "more viable than herald" (could, you said could, I know). Could it fill the role of holo or Berserker by bringing heavy melee damage, sure maybe with a GS buff. But if your group uses range to enable melee pushes, will Vindicators Hammer spike + offering nothing to the group be worth more then Heralds? I do not think so in the beta state. 

[SnakeKouki.6503]

Bring back Regular dodge because it's needed in every game mode fight mechanics. It doesn't make sense to do a leap but still get sniped out of the air. Totally pointless.

 

Make the leap the Elite skill and the major trait change what it does. Give it a boost in performance and a long cool down so it becomes something rewarding if you can pull it off. The elites now seem silly and rushed after thoughts.

 

Allow the legend to be locked on either Kurz or Lux and make it swappable like a lot of people have been saying. You can't swap your gear mid fight for stats so what's the point of this?

 

 

To me the one thing that bothers me most is the dodge. The leap is cool and the animation is cool but it's not worth replacing dodge. I'm a mostly WvW player and any Vindi is getting wrecked out there when dodging is so important in any kind of fights. Really sucks I feel like there is so much potential but it needs a lot of work to actually be usable. I remember watching the stream and they were talking about how this is going to be good for large fights and blah blah blah. NOT without an actual dodge where you can actually evade.

[Infusion.7149]

2 hours ago, Zikory.6871 said:

Kinda my point. You basically just listed a bunch of classes that don't get much active play or have to sacrifice damage to support. Vindicator on the other hand is stuck with its bad support skills. 

So even if Greatsword is buffed. It alone would not be enough to call it "more viable than herald" (could, you said could, I know). Could it fill the role of holo or Berserker by bringing heavy melee damage, sure maybe with a GS buff. But if your group uses range to enable melee pushes, will Vindicators Hammer spike + offering nothing to the group be worth more then Heralds? I do not think so in the beta state. 

Well it has a 5 condition deep condi cleanse on Tree Song (10s cooldown) and a 10s cooldown 360 radius stunbreak similar to eles "eye of the Storm", engi's toss Elixir U, or rangers "Protect Me". If you run Saint zu Heltzer trait it is going to put out barrier on dodge in levels similar to power scourge (1550ish heal + barrier). If you run Imperial Impact (Vassals of the Empire) you get prot + 8 stacks of might + boon extension. 2s of boon extension is the same length as Herald's True Nature.

Herald's swiftness isn't as high impact unless you run speed runes because people run scrapper supports with superspeed and minstrel FB. That means it's mainly might + fury output as protection uptime isn't going to be high. In addition if you have a herald already, putting another one doesn't exactly change the boons.

The main thing holding it back is the Greatsword DPS I think. It can't compete with scrappers in the sense that a scrapper with gyros provides quickness and superspeed and also has 4K+ tooltips (Thunderclap, shredder gyro) in full marauder on hammer.

From gw2mists , some ballpark numbers of what kind of damage it is competing against:

• power scrapper = 3K tooltip thunderclap over its duration, 4K shredder gyro over its duration, 3K rocket charge, 1.8K electrowhirl http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PegAIJlRw6YQsH2JO+LfteA-zRJYiRFfh0UIEYBURGY7BIg9wbR/zI-e
• power DH , symbol of swiftness = 2.5K tooltip over its pulses , procession of blade is 4.4K, sword of justice is 1.7K, Holy strike is 1.1K http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PWwAYt/lFwaYOME2IO0X1tUA-zRJYiRNfh0UCkZIURFY7BIg9wbR/zI-e
• Berserker = 4K tooltip on arc divider , 2.4K for 4 hits of whirlwind attack http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PKgAENlRwEZgMKGJO2W6tKA-zVRYBBLGVsCppQIiEoiKw2DQA7h3i+nRA-w
• power scourge, well of suffering = 4K tooltip over its pulses http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PSABs2djlNwOYIsHmJOyL6vcA-zVRYBBLG9syIzUo7Kw2DQA7h3i+nRA-w
• power weaver = 3.6K lava font over its duration , 2.2K plasma blast , 1.5K eruption  http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PGQAYlFw8YRsO2JO+KbvNA-zVRYBBhLGFcHlRTJQFFgtHgA2AvF9PjA-w
• power soulbeast = 5K whirling defense ,  1.5K maul on this version (I would run beastmastery)   http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?POwAceFlRweYcsN2JOsK2P1BEB-zRJYiRHfZkZKURFYyBIg9wbR/ZA-e

Just like in PVE where people are saying it barely breaks 31K DPS, it needs damage.

Edited October 15, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Zikory.6871]

13 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Well it has a 5 condition deep condi cleanse on Tree Song (10s cooldown) and a 10s cooldown 360 radius stunbreak similar to eles "eye of the Storm", engi's toss Elixir U, or rangers "Protect Me". If you run Saint zu Heltzer trait it is going to put out barrier on dodge in levels similar to power scourge (1550ish heal + barrier). If you run Imperial Impact (Vassals of the Empire) you get prot + 8 stacks of might + boon extension. 2s of boon extension is the same length as Herald's True Nature.

Herald's swiftness isn't as high impact unless you run speed runes because people run scrapper supports with superspeed and minstrel FB. That means it's mainly might + fury output as protection uptime isn't going to be high. In addition if you have a herald already, putting another one doesn't exactly change the boons.

The main thing holding it back is the Greatsword DPS I think. It can't compete with scrappers in the sense that a scrapper with gyros provides quickness and superspeed and also has 4K+ tooltips (Thunderclap, shredder gyro) in full marauder on hammer.

From gw2mists , some ballpark numbers of what kind of damage it is competing against:

• power scrapper = 3K tooltip thunderclap over its duration, 4K shredder gyro over its duration, 3K rocket charge, 1.8K electrowhirl http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PegAIJlRw6YQsH2JO+LfteA-zRJYiRFfh0UIEYBURGY7BIg9wbR/zI-e
• power DH , symbol of swiftness = 2.5K tooltip over its pulses , procession of blade is 4.4K, sword of justice is 1.7K, Holy strike is 1.1K http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PWwAYt/lFwaYOME2IO0X1tUA-zRJYiRNfh0UCkZIURFY7BIg9wbR/zI-e
• Berserker = 4K tooltip on arc divider , 2.4K for 4 hits of whirlwind attack http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PKgAENlRwEZgMKGJO2W6tKA-zVRYBBLGVsCppQIiEoiKw2DQA7h3i+nRA-w
• power scourge, well of suffering = 4K tooltip over its pulses http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PSABs2djlNwOYIsHmJOyL6vcA-zVRYBBLG9syIzUo7Kw2DQA7h3i+nRA-w
• power weaver = 3.6K lava font over its duration , 2.2K plasma blast , 1.5K eruption  http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PGQAYlFw8YRsO2JO+KbvNA-zVRYBBhLGFcHlRTJQFFgtHgA2AvF9PjA-w
• power soulbeast = 5K whirling defense ,  1.5K maul on this version (I would run beastmastery)   http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?POwAceFlRweYcsN2JOsK2P1BEB-zRJYiRHfZkZKURFYyBIg9wbR/ZA-e

Just like in PVE where people are saying it barely breaks 31K DPS, it needs damage.

The stun breaks were pretty cool, no complaints, AoE stun breaks are really strong. My only random opinion would be to remove the cast time from 1 of them. Tree Song was a nice burst cleanse but kinda redundant if you have a Scrapper and a 1s cast is a long time for clears. Support SBs shake it off is basically the same but with 2 instant charges. Sustained clears are better off being done by Scrappers and FBs as they can convert to boons. I don't see Tree Song being anything but situational or a damage loss for a damage build. 

Sadly I can't argue with Herald boons not being great anymore. But it is still one of the best for group Fury and it enables range spikes for classes that have to self fury. There is just so much more packed into Glint then the Ally legends. Ele blast pulses vs Scavenger Burst not. Reveal+instant stun break. 7% damage modifier. Knockback+Super speed. Nomad Advance/Battle Dance will displace you from your support for energy costs, Spear of A and Urn are both worthless (from what I tested). 

Ignoring damage, I see no reason to bring a Vindicator over a Herald. Vindicator skills are already covered in most comps by Firebrands, Scrappers, Tempest and the damage utilities are out classed by Dragon Hunter. DH can have GS, stronger traits, 2-3 dodges, way more flexibility in what skills it can bring. 

A Greatsword buff would be a good start, AoE stun break is dope. But no new CC, unneeded heals/cleanse, no elite skills, weak traits and that dodge are going to keep it from being more then a neat class some people might play. 

And really, all this is mostly moot until I'm convinced the dodge is usable for a melee damage class. Do you dodge in for a damage buff? Or do you hold it for when you need to avoid damage (effectively wasting your traits and half of the skills that regen endurance when its not on CD)?

[Axl.8924]

I was thinking about something: would you argue that gs succeeds in cc or would you guys argue its inferior to all the other weapons in your opinion for SPVP?

 

I was trying to figure out if gs can and will succeed pvp wise. i was thinking since i saw vallun play sword sword herald with dragon stance which seemed to be very heavy aoe condi spec and i noticed a few.

 

Would you argue its competing with herald sword sword on gs?

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Buran.3796]

19 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

I was thinking about something: would you argue that gs succeeds in cc or would you guys argue its inferior to all the other weapons in your opinion for SPVP?

Would you argue its competing with herald sword sword on gs?

 

   GS main reason to be is #2 (Mist Unleashed), but feels too slow and damage lacking to work in fights vs humans, specially due you lack cc to grant the impact. For GS to truly work you need quickness, and you have a few sources:

* Superior sigil of Agility would never work because the quickness duration is bad even with concentration stats, specially at WvW/PvP.

* Superior sigil of Celerity would be better, but you need to use a legend skill (Jade Winds, Forced Engagement...) to profit, or having access to Surge of the Mist/ Temporal Rift then inmediatly swap to GS to land your attacks at enhanced speed. It only would grant quickness once each 20 seconds, so wouldn't be a very reliable source in fights, so most of the time you'll be framed in a subperforming set of weapons.

* Brutality is more reliable, with a 9 seconds cooldown and with a quickness duration that can be extended to 4-5 seconds mixing zerk with commander stats and Leadership runes. But with Vindicator + Devastation traitlines set, you have now to chose either Retribution or Invocation, and both have good things that you'll miss, since your legend choices at that time would be Jalis + Shiro (being the Legendary Alliance utterly useless at competitive game modes).

   Now, in order for GS to work in WvW/PvP, you would also need the jump to be a complete i-frame sequence for the full duration of the "animation" (including the recovering), and probably run staff as secondary weapon. All of this wouldn't be enough if the damage isn't touched, because at the moment it only works decently in PvE.

 

   The Vindicator is a limited spec, since has no real condition damage (which dominates the PvE scene), has the same lacks in condition cleanses (Redemtor's Sermon has a 90s cd in WvW/PvP) and the only way to do damage is a physical weapon with a slow main attack. You can't preesure enemies with ranged attacks since you lack the bow and and the hammer has been garbage for ages (even if you run full zerker stats. which I do), and you don't benefit at all from celestial stats (which are keeping Firebrands alive for roaming and gave the Herald a nice new condi build which doesn't need Mallyx).

   At this moment, Vindicator won't be able to succesfully duel power or condi Heralds or Renegadees, and is just a bruiser which can be really boring to kill in some roaming scenarios. But is just a low damage striker which worse tools than a power Herald or even a core build (core's F2 is way stronger that anything Vidicator has).

[Zikory.6871]

On 10/16/2021 at 7:46 AM, Axl.8924 said:

I was thinking about something: would you argue that gs succeeds in cc or would you guys argue its inferior to all the other weapons in your opinion for SPVP?

 

I was trying to figure out if gs can and will succeed pvp wise. i was thinking since i saw vallun play sword sword herald with dragon stance which seemed to be very heavy aoe condi spec and i noticed a few.

 

Would you argue its competing with herald sword sword on gs?

 

The only CC Vindicator has is Chill. Chill on the 3rd auto strike and you can trait for chill on dodge. 

The Vindicator elite brings no other CC and it would all come from core rev.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmQAElQmE6kQpEClQqEqkRVA-w

Edited October 17, 2021 by Zikory.6871

[Axl.8924]

If everything you guys say is true then they should give the reaper treatment to GS but with  very revenantish abilities at least, to give them a different playstyle than aoe spam Herald which is close range but its aoe based and a bit more range, and better tools for dealing for close combat sorta like warr gs or something but revenantified.

[Infusion.7149]

13 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

If everything you guys say is true then they should give the reaper treatment to GS but with  very revenantish abilities at least, to give them a different playstyle than aoe spam Herald which is close range but its aoe based and a bit more range, and better tools for dealing for close combat sorta like warr gs or something but revenantified.

Its funny that you mention warrior greatsword, revenant greatsword is quite similar (down to the #2 skill being more difficult to land... Hundred Blades roots you). It is less similar to guardian or necromancer greatsword which rely on pulling people.

Revenant greatsword just doesn't have the damage. It has the gap closer and a block and AOE damage. I don't anticipate that vindicator will be strong in PVP because the payoff of hitting 5 people will be near non-existent, at best it might be usable in WVW with double energy sigils provided the damage is increased to actually be on par with damage builds that are more reliable and don't have to rely on a janky alliance stance. If you don't run alliance stance you basically have a greatsword core rev.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Axl.8924]

9 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Its funny that you mention warrior greatsword, revenant greatsword is quite similar. It is less similar to guardian or necromancer greatsword which rely on pulling people.

Revenant greatsword just doesn't have the damage. It has the gap closer and a block and AOE damage. I don't anticipate that vindicator will be strong in PVP because the payoff of hitting 5 people will be near non-existent, at best it might be usable in WVW with double energy sigils provided the damage is increased to actually be on par with damage builds that are more reliable and don't have to rely on a janky alliance stance. If you don't run alliance stance you basically have a greatsword core rev.

I was hoping vindi get a weapon that works better without needing aoes that are put down so they can play vs thief players and play sorta like warr or reaper. Perhaps it needs buffs in cc then and overhaul for that kinda situation unless perhaps i'm wrong in which hopefully someone informs me why. I want vindicator to succeed in other areas that herald doesn't which is what new specs should do.

If thats not possible perhaps they could work on the  utility to use in combat to give it a different vantage? 

Or perhaps they could improve gapclosers and that kinda stuff since its trying to go towards war weapon? I look forward to improvements to make vindicator desired.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Axl.8924
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