Is your gameplay affected by the fact that almost everything can be bought with gold?

[Malice.5867]

Hi all,

 

I've been playing GW2 on and off for years. I would usually get hyped about a specific goal, play too much for a couple of months, burn out and then quit for good 5-6 months or so.

I'm a pretty casual player and I do a little bit of everything- I played enough spvp and wvw to get a full set of legendary armor and the Ascension. I farmed enough open world events to craft a couple of legendary weapons. I have 100% map completion and have done all LS. I also have each profession leveled to 80 (most of them are boosted with the absurd amount of tomes the game provides).

 

It's that time of the year and I feel like playing GW2 again, however, this time it is a bit different. I realised that I've been brainwashed by all other MMORPGs and I always played in this bizzare goal-oriented way. I also realised that I always gravitated towards more "prestige" stuff that requires time and effort and can't just be bought with gold (not that farming does not take time and effort, but I hope you get what I mean). So now, that I got all the gear that I "need" I find it really difficult to pick something else to do, because all other goals require mostly gold.

 

I understand that everything being available for gold is great for the game. It allows everyone to enjoy the game in any way that they would like and use the saved resources to buy the shiny thing that they want without being forced to do a specific type of content that they don't enjoy (like pretty much all other games). However, knowing the fact that gold can literally be bought with money it really diminishes the sence of achievement. I was so happy when I got the Ascension, because after spending 2 months in the most (and probably only) toxic part of the game I had something to show for it and knew that everyone that has the item had to earn it the hard way.

 

I'm interested to hear how you guys feel about this. Is the fact that most things can be bought with gold affecting the way you play the game? And do you feel like this kind of forces players to constantly focus on farming gold, because everything else feels suboptimal?

 

P.S. Any ideas and recommendations on how to snap out of the brainwash are also welcome (I'm thinking about starting by doing all jumping puzzles and try some of the mount races).

[Farohna.6247]

I suppose it depends on what you value and how you like to spend your time.  Farming gold can be a goal, an achievement for a title can be a goal, converting gold to gems, earning a particular skin through achievements, etc.  I don't feel any of it is suboptimal, more about what do you value. Not everything can be purchased, not everything can be found in the gem store or trade post... perhaps things you value are.  So you grind out gold and buy a stack of ore instead of farming it....so what?  

So no, it does not affect how I play.  If I find something interesting to do, then I do it.  If I have gold and want to save myself some time and focus energy elsewhere, maybe I do that.  Does it take away from my legendary that maybe someone else bought there gen 1 precursor?  Nope.  I had fun crafting mine and following the story. 

Also you can buy gems, but the conversion rate back to gold is meh 😕. So why would you?  It's not pay to win, which is what this post feels like.  Use your time we'll and follow what interests you and stop looking at everyone else's shiny.

[BlueJin.4127]

Yes. I like that there are many rewards I can obtain without being forced into specific contents. And it’s not always about buying stuff with gold. I rarely buy complete items with gold. I just like it when I have options, such as which HP/MP to get, which achievements to get for seasonal meta achievements, which contents to play for Funerary Incenses, etc.

Edited November 17, 2021 by BlueJin.4127

[Debesyla.7102]

I mean, you can do this with any and every game, can't you?

And isn't the real joy to expierence the stuff yourself rather to opening your wallet? By taking shortcuts you are only making it worse for yourself... :V

[Svarty.8019]

If you're so casual that you don't play any of the game, then yes, I can see why gold might be an issue.

 

... but if you're that casual, why do you care enough to write a forum post about it?

[Danikat.8537]

I don't feel this way. I spend a lot of time working on goals specifically because the things I want cannot be bought with gold. For example I collect mini pets and while there's a lot you can get with gold there's also a lot which come from specific achievements or are bought with other currencies (requiring you to play a specific area of the game to get them). It's the same with weapon and armour skins too.

I do buy things with gold as well of course, but I don't feel like I have to spend a lot of time farming gold. For one thing I'll often get it while focusing on other goals, I'll do meta events to collect map-specific currencies and in the process I'll also get items I can sell for gold. If I need more gold than I have and selling materials or converting other currencies won't do it I'll usually pick a method which will get me other things I need rather than simply the most efficient gold farm I know of.

On top of that I'm fine with taking my time with in-game goals, I'm usually not in any rush to be finished (there are exceptions, like when I was putting a costume together for the Icebrood Saga, I wanted to have it done before episode 2 was released) so if I'm not enjoying it I'll put that on hold and do something else instead.

Finally I don't really care about any concept of prestige or making sure other people know how and where/when I got things. I'll use titles which fit my characters or what they're currently doing rather than ones I hope will impress other people and dress them in things I think they would choose or which fit their theme regardless of where those skins came from. If it's important to me I'll remember what I did to get those items, I don't need everyone else to know as well.

[Rasimir.6239]

47 minutes ago, Malice.5867 said:

P.S. Any ideas and recommendations on how to snap out of the brainwash are also welcome

I've found that to me the core of the problem was that over years of gaming I had trained myself to put "efficiency" over "enjoyment". If I had a goal, I would look for the most efficient way to reach that goal and grind it until I was done (or was so sick of it I stopped playing). Eventually I realized that I really was sucking the fun out of the games. It started with strategy/building games like civilization, where once you knew how to optimize your gameplay, you would end up being near invincible, but eventually it got to be an issue with roleplaying games, too.

 

When I switched from LotRO to GW2 as my main rpg (back in 2012/2013) I made a concious decision of not wanting to play efficiently any more. Fortunately this game makes it a much more practical approach than others, since there are multiple ways towards most rewards, including spending gold on things if rng doesn't favor you (or you just prefer to play content that doesn't give you the "right" stuff, e.d. a specific tier of a crafting material).

 

Every now and then I take up ESO again, a game I've started playing in beta but that never stuck with me because eventually I'll be fed up with having to farm specific content to reach my goals, sometimes even within a specific timeframe (event tickets come to mind as a prime offender). Even though I enjoy the quests and world building in that game, it just doesn't lend itself to focussing enjoyment while still progressing towards goals the way GW2 does for me.

 

My playstyle these days is very erratic. I have goals, but don't worry if it takes me a while to finish them, because I only "work" on them whenever it really suits me. For example, it took me four years to build Nevermore (which incidentally I had only started because I wanted the t2 precursor skin 😂), but I made it without grinding, and without forcing myself to do anything I didn't feel like.

 

On the same note I never grind gold, but find that it accumulates from just playing what I enjoy. I probably could've gathered more if I had specifically gone and farmed gold, but I find spending gold that just accumulated automatically while I spent my time playing stuff I enjoyed beats any gold farming when it comes to "efficient" use of my entertainment time 😉 .

[Malice.5867]

 

4 minutes ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

I've found that to me the core of the problem was that over years of gaming I had trained myself to put "efficiency" over "enjoyment". If I had a goal, I would look for the most efficient way to reach that goal and grind it until I was done (or was so sick of it I stopped playing). Eventually I realized that I really was sucking the fun out of the games. It started with strategy/building games like civilization, where once you knew how to optimize your gameplay, you would end up being near invincible, but eventually it got to be an issue with roleplaying games, too.

 

Thank you. I'm starting to realize that this is a way bigger issue than any of the game mechanics and how the GW2 economy works.

[kharmin.7683]

No, this is not an issue for me.  Nor does it affect my game play or enjoyment.

[Kaliwenda.3428]

In the sense that it makes me grateful for the kind of business model that lets me get things I want without opening up my wallet, then yes, it affects me to view the game in a very positive way.

As far as prestige/effort/being super-special goes, that's not something I concern myself with.  If I want something badly enough (like the skyscale, or a title I like) I map out what I need to do and just do it (gradually, not all at once). For myself and no one else. 

I think it's kindof sad that nowhere in your post did you mention doing things just for fun.  I think mount races might be a good thing for you to try - roller beetle races for me always put a grin on my face even when I'm missing a tight curve and flying off a cliff...something very yolo about the whole thing makes even the flame-outs feel like a good time.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Kaliwenda.3428

[Gibson.4036]

I do find that for some reason I have a easier time working toward goals that require a large variety of different tasks. I don’t have any problem with world completion, because there’s always a specific new area to complete. I had no issues with skyscale collections apart from farming the zone currency.

Tasks that only require a mass of some currency, though, I lose steam on somewhere in the process. Items that just need a large amount of gold, or a stockpile of skirmish tickets, or a ton of a mat… I just lose interest.

Apparently there’s something psychologically that appeals to me about completing a checklist over farming a currency.

Maybe it partly has to do with checklists leading me into new areas and activities I may not have experienced before, which is fun. Recently trying to get core mastery points I tried a lot of thing I didn’t even realize were in the game.

Also, I’m not really drawn to prestige items. For the most part utility attracts me, whether mobility, fight power, or “convenience”. I was largely disinterested in legendary items, for example, until the armory.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Gibson.4036

[Malice.5867]

37 minutes ago, Kaliwenda.3428 said:

I think it's kindof sad that nowhere in your post did you mention doing things just for fun

 

My total playtime is around 1.7k hours and I had a lot of fun most of that time. I've never did anything I did not enjoy or had to grind through something unplesant. I just always had a distant goal set in my mind and that helped me enjoy what I do a bit more, because subconciously I know that I'm working towards something and it felt more rewarding.

[Khisanth.2948]

2 hours ago, Malice.5867 said:

It's that time of the year and I feel like playing GW2 again, however, this time it is a bit different. I realised that I've been brainwashed by all other MMORPGs and I always played in this bizzare goal-oriented way. I also realised that I always gravitated towards more "prestige" stuff that requires time and effort and can't just be bought with gold (not that farming does not take time and effort, but I hope you get what I mean). So now, that I got all the gear that I "need" I find it really difficult to pick something else to do, because all other goals require mostly gold.

Sounds to me your actual goal is seeking the adoration of your peers.

Having goals is not the issue. What is the purpose of those goals? Wanting to be the best there ever was is one thing but wanting to be the best so people recognize and praise you everywhere you go is a totally different thing.

I get stuff either because I like it or I think it is useful to me in some way ... or because it exist(there is no other explanation for wanting 4 legendary sigils for underwater >_<)

[Rogue.8235]

11 hours ago, Malice.5867 said:

P.S. Any ideas and recommendations on how to snap out of the brainwash are also welcome (I'm thinking about starting by doing all jumping puzzles and try some of the mount races).

I'll add my thoughts on the other stuff later.  As for this specific thing:

 

One thing I sometimes do is actively ignore the daily.  Force myself to just pretend there is no daily.  Once you can do that, you start to free yourself of the operant conditioning of getting in-game resources.  

Sometimes I just hop on a random character and do stuff with absolutely no planning or pre-meditation. Just doing stuff on a whim is a good way to become aware of what you really enjoy about the game.  Doing this enough helps snap you out of the operant conditioning that is the Skinner Box.

If you are really automated in the reward seeking behavior when playing the game, understand that it will take effort to force yourself to ignore rewards.  You have to force yourself, little by little, to not plan on what shiny thing you want to get, but what you feel like doing for the simple sake that it is what you want to do.

 

To understand what is going on with the farming and efficiency mentality of online gaming, see:

Operant Conditioning - basic overview

 The Playing Brain. The Impact of Video Games on Cognition and Behavior in Pediatric Age at the Time of Lockdown: A Systematic Review   Specifically section 3.2. Video Games Effect on Attention and Addictive Behaviors

Pediatric Reports, volume 13, issue 3, pages 401–415., published September 13, 2021.

Why are Some Games More Addictive than Others: The Effects of Timing and Payoff on Perseverance in a Slot Machine Game

Actually  more applicable to online gaming.

Frontiers in Psychology, volume 7, article 46, published February 2, 2016

 

 

This last one I didn't take a close look at, so take with a grain of salt as it's not peer reviewed.  May be an interesting read for anyone wanting to know.  Again, read with a healthy level of skepticism.

An Analysis of Operant Conditioning and its Relationship with Video Game Addiction

San Jose State University

 

 

 

[Doctor Hide.6345]

Honestly, I think my game-play is enhanced because of it. I am one of those players that if I start something I need it to be finished within a week otherwise I lose interest in it. So, using gold to skip most of that boring grind and not doing something which I hate helps me enjoy the game more.  And I never cared for prestige or "look at me" stuff either since I get annoyed at the bragger type who like to show off that way.  I do things because I like how it looks, and I couldn't care less if someone likes it or not.

 

As an example, let's say I was using an all power build character, and I got bored of playing that way. I have no problem dropping like $40 and converting it to gold to buy all the ascended gear I need for diviner for example. Yes, there is some things I need to farm, but those are light farms when you have enough alts to get all the mats within 2 days. So on day 3 of me wanting to switching, I have all I want which makes me happy over doing something boring for 2 months or so.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

No.

[Malice.5867]

6 hours ago, Rogue.8235 said:

I'll add my thoughts on the other stuff later.  As for this specific thing:

 

One thing I sometimes do is actively ignore the daily.  Force myself to just pretend there is no daily.  Once you can do that, you start to free yourself of the operant conditioning of getting in-game resources.  

Sometimes I just hop on a random character and do stuff with absolutely no planning or pre-meditation. Just doing stuff on a whim is a good way to become aware of what you really enjoy about the game.  Doing this enough helps snap you out of the operant conditioning that is the Skinner Box.

If you are really automated in the reward seeking behavior when playing the game, understand that it will take effort to force yourself to ignore rewards.  You have to force yourself, little by little, to not plan on what shiny thing you want to get, but what you feel like doing for the simple sake that it is what you want to do.

 

To understand what is going on with the farming and efficiency mentality of online gaming, see:

Operant Conditioning - basic overview

 The Playing Brain. The Impact of Video Games on Cognition and Behavior in Pediatric Age at the Time of Lockdown: A Systematic Review   Specifically section 3.2. Video Games Effect on Attention and Addictive Behaviors

Pediatric Reports, volume 13, issue 3, pages 401–415., published September 13, 2021.

Why are Some Games More Addictive than Others: The Effects of Timing and Payoff on Perseverance in a Slot Machine Game

Actually  more applicable to online gaming.

Frontiers in Psychology, volume 7, article 46, published February 2, 2016

 

 

This last one I didn't take a close look at, so take with a grain of salt as it's not peer reviewed.  May be an interesting read for anyone wanting to know.  Again, read with a healthy level of skepticism.

An Analysis of Operant Conditioning and its Relationship with Video Game Addiction

San Jose State University

 

 

 

 

Thank you so much for all the resources, I'll have a look into them right away. 

 

The daily is a big thing indeed. It rewards you so much for so little that I always force myself to do it, even tho I don't care about achievment points and don't really need more gold. 

[Naxos.2503]

The only thing I feel forced to buy are things that have a particularly low drop rate (I have a very bad track record with RNG in any game I play, it took me 5 years to drop my first ascended piece of loot). But then, that point is moot when that item is priced over 1000 gold. I dont farm gold, I enjoy the game and take part in stuff as naturally as possible.

Part of the reason I like the game is that I'm rewarded when I do so through achievements and collections. 

I equate farming for an item as work with a very random salary, mostly low. I very much appreciate the game giving me an option to do hard work, but get a fixed reward for it. It is worth noting that most of things tied to achievements and collections are Not buyable with gold, and I think that should very much stay that way.

[vandrefalk.6823]

No.

 

Let me elaborate; no, it is not.

[Embered.5089]

No, because I like doing achievements and most of those can't be bought with gold. I only farm gold when I want completely unnecessary things, like legendaries. Or expensive skins. Or novelties. I only get things that I want. I don't care what others think of me. I don't care about prestige in a game, only comfort and fun. Even when I get the legendaries I'm working on, I will transmute them because I don't like the flashy skins. No one will know that I have a legendary. I will have it for me and only me.

GW2 is the least grindy MMORPG that I've ever encountered. I never have to farm gold if I don't want to. I just have to not want that ridiculously-priced permanent tonic and tell myself that I will only use it for like 1 second every blue moon, and is it really worth it, and suddenly my sights are set on something else less grindy.

[Aodlop.1907]

Yes, it takes away from the experience. 

It removes any sense of goal or purpose, and it removes any value cool items may have, save for the select few you can only obtain in raids.

I kind of wish each game mode came with unique looking armor sets and mount skins.

[ArchonWing.9480]

At the end of the day, whether you had 3 legendaries or 30 legendaries, or how you got them, the truth remains:

The majority of players don't care about you or how you got the stuff.

The majority of people don't care about Gw2.

Thus, this kind of standard is basically irrelevant and irrational. If you ask me, it's pretty stupid and I don't understand how anyone can play a game (a device meant for entertainment) like that. Legendaries are meant to be gold and time sinks by design for a few bonus features. To see them as anything else is on you. At that point you have to ask: Do you own the shiny, or do they own you?

Heck, most of the things we own in general can be bought, does that mean they don't matter as much? If you cook a meal, is  it worth less because you didn't slaughter the animals yourself? Silly.

And beyond this, there are many things you can't just throw gold at. So not really sure what the point of this is.

The best way to demonstrate your skill is to actually display it in game, anyways.

Edit: And yes, I find the traditional  MMO grinding mindset to be extremely unhealthy.

Edited November 18, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[kash.9213]

I keep running into stuff I want but can't get because I mostly play WvW. I hit up all the story stuff and new content, but I can't spend that much trying to crank out a bunch of collections and achievement unless it's something I absolutely have to have. I wish I could get everything with gold. 

[Randulf.7614]

It’s a great boon for the game that options exist. It’s a video game and really not that big a deal how an item is obtained in game. As long as any legitimate in game way is used to obtain an item, there’s no wrong way.

Most of my items I’ve grafted for with grind or collections or farming. That’s no better or worse than someone who got the same items by using gold.

If a person finds there is a sense of diminished achievement, then that rests solely on them. It isn’t a fault or problem with the game and the solution exists for a player to change it.

I used to think differently, but I’m more and more of the mindset that it’s just pixels, just a video game. And I really am not that fussed anymore how others get their stuff

Edited November 18, 2021 by Randulf.7614

[Beast Sos.1457]

55 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

At the end of the day, whether you had 3 legendaries or 30 legendaries, or how you got them, the truth remains:

The majority of players don't care about you or how you got the stuff.

The majority of people don't care about Gw2.

Thus, this kind of standard is basically irrelevant and irrational. If you ask me, it's pretty stupid and I don't understand how anyone can play a game (a device meant for entertainment) like that. Legendaries are meant to be gold and time sinks by design for a few bonus features. To see them as anything else is on you. At that point you have to ask: Do you own the shiny, or do they own you?

Heck, most of the things we own in general can be bought, does that mean they don't matter as much? If you cook a meal, is  it worth less because you didn't slaughter the animals yourself? Silly.

And beyond this, there are many things you can't just throw gold at. So not really sure what the point of this is.

The best way to demonstrate your skill is to actually display it in game, anyways.

Edit: And yes, I find the traditional  MMO grinding mindset to be extremely unhealthy.

People don't care bc theres nothing impressive about a weapon that anyone can outright buy off the tp. When I see someone with a gen 2 legendary its much more impressive. You know for a fact they worked hard to get it. Same with Legendary armor.

 

Ask anyone who butchered meat for themselves and they will tell you the meat tastes much better when you do. There is a big satisfaction difference between buying something with a currency or going out and obtaining it with your own hands. 

 

If you had no goals in a game, would you keep playing it after you experienced everything a few times? I can only run the Chak meta or the shatterer so many times before it gets boring for me. Unless theres a goal im working towards. Same applies to raids, strikes, fractals and so on. After the initial fun phase is over, there has to be a goal to work towards to incentivize people to keep playing. It's human nature.

 

How come games like mario party aren't something you can play daily for years? I would assume its bc theres no goals outside of the initial fun phase/playing through the whole game. Once you finish it you might play once in a while but it will never be a daily game to play. Unless its a pvp game where getting good is the goal. Gw2 isn't a pvp game though. 

Edited November 18, 2021 by Beast Sos.1457