GW2's biggest flaw

[lezbefriends.7516]

There's no role-based, queue-up automatic group finder. Instead, you have to beg in LFG like a homeless person for x role to join you.

Edited October 28, 2022 by lezbefriends.7516

[KingJake.6529]

The lfg has been up for a big rework since forever.

[Labjax.2465]

Yeah, it's rough. I get why in some contexts, people want flexibility in what they're asking for and so are wary of automation here, but an automated tool doesn't necessarily have to erase the possibility of specifying what you want from existence just by nature of being more automated. It's a fine line to ride given how long it's been the norm and I think it's possible to make something more hybridized.

[Doggie.3184]

The biggest flaw to me is the irony of being the only MMO with water combat yet having no Swimsuits.

But the LFG issue is certainly a huge flaw too. They originally were very against the "Holy Trinity" dynamic in MMOs but now that they gave up on that idea and added a Holy Trinity they need to redesign the LFG to support that. 

[mercury ranique.2170]

I would not call this the biggest flaw by far.
A good advice in making a point is not to exaggerate or over dramatize things.

RP is very welcome in GW2, but the game is never made with that intend. Still some QoL additions like this would be very nice and the LFG could use an overhaul in the near future.

I would also recommend a toggle to only show categories that are nearby. (so when in fuilds in ruin with that option toggled off you'd see all dungeons, but with that option toggled on you'd see only Ascalonian catacombs.

A groupfinder would also help a lot for other formats then RP-ing
 

[Cynder.2509]

The too easy difficulty and the community (it was way better back in the early days)

[Amaranthe.3578]

PLEASE don't listen to this person

[HowlKamui.5120]

what would the roles even be?

Alac
Quickness
DPS

???

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

6 hours ago, lezbefriends.7516 said:

There's no role-based, queue-up automatic group finder. Instead, you have to beg in LFG like a homeless person for x role to join you.

then you get people that hijack your lfg at times and spew random VERY inappropriate things and you start to panic on whether or not you get mistakingly banned for being AFK in LA while recruiting for a guild to come back to hate mail and that youre reported without a friggin clue as to who the hell did it!...should make leader only one able to change the lfg message...ALWAYS... SMH...just a story i had last night...

[Danikat.8537]

55 minutes ago, HowlKamui.5120 said:

what would the roles even be?

Alac
Quickness
DPS

???

This is the part that makes me think it wouldn't work too.

I wouldn't use an automated queue, but I'm not opposed to one existing in addition to the current LFG tool, I just wouldn't use it. But people always want it to be based on roles and that doesn't work in GW2 because there are no universal roles. It would have to be different for each area of the game, and maybe for each instance, and Anet would have to keep updating it as the meta shifts. It's only in the last few years that alacrity and quickness were in high demand so those filters would be a recent addition (probably after months of players asking for them because the previous ones are no longer relevant) and because that's just 2 boons they're usually combined with doing other things so you'd need a way for someone to queue based on the boon/s they provide and the other stuff they can do.

They're also not relevant everywhere, many areas of the game prioritise other things. For example there's 1 raid where one important role is 'hand kiter'. That doesn't exist anywhere else in the game, but if you want an automated queue to be useful for raids you'd need a button or a filter or whatever to request someone who can do that and they'd need a way to queue for it. PvP uses 'bunker' builds, which aren't used in PvE. WvW has different builds for small roaming groups and big zergs. For the Mad King's Labyrinth you'd need different queues for people who have removed all trinkets and people who keep them (but maybe reduce their damage in other ways) and for people who only want to do green doors vs. people who want to do everything...but is it worth having specialist options for something that only exists for 3 weeks of each year?

I understand why some people think it would be convenient. But the old fashioned system where the game dumps a tank, a healer and X DPS players together and assumes they'll be fine for anything wouldn't work here. It would need a lot more options and they'd have to be constantly updated as the available content and the meta shifts.

IMO it's easier for everyone to have the flexibility of a text box and the freedom to choose groups. That works with any requirements you can imagine, in exchange for the slight inconvenience of having to look at the menu to choose a group instead of having the game do it for you.

[Doggie.3184]

1 hour ago, HowlKamui.5120 said:

what would the roles even be?

Alac
Quickness
DPS

???

Yes. Heals as well and Tank for raids.. These are the "Holy Trinity" archtypes they created which surprisingly end up larger than the original with 4-5 roles instead of 3, lol. Anet tried to avoid it when they released but ended up expanding it.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Doggie.3184

[Warscythes.9307]

7 minutes ago, Doggie.3184 said:

Yes. Heals as well and Tank for raids.. These are the "Holy Trinity" archtypes they created which surprisingly end up larger than the original with 4-5 roles instead of 3, lol. Anet tried to avoid it when they released but ended up expanding it.

How do you even enforce it? The thing with other MMO is that if you sign up with as a tank. You will have all the tools to at least tank, might not be the best tank in the world but you will have defensive cooldowns, taunts etc, things that you need to do your tank job. You can't really force that in GW2. How can you be sure the quickness sign up has enough tools and gear to provide quickness? Do you just wing it? Do you set some hard requirement like 50% boon duration before you can sign up as quickness as well as have the relevant traits ticked?

 

By the way people have discussed the topic before. This has always been the main issue. How do you properly design an automatic LFG that actually works in this game. Because otherwise you are going to end up with the public LFG in IBS strikes which has never worked since there is no enforcement at all.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Warscythes.9307

[Danikat.8537]

I don't know how other MMOs do it but Elder Scrolls Online's group finder works purely on trust. It defaults to whichever role it thinks you are based on your currently equipped weapons but if you change it (or if you're not using the appropriate skills) the game will let you queue for whatever you claim to be.

Whether that's good or bad depends on the group you end up in. Some hate it and the forum is constantly full of complaints about 'fake' tanks and healers. Others actually like it because even though the game was nominally built around the old trinity system it's not relevant everywhere and often another damage dealer is preferable to a tank who won't have anything to do.

The problem of course is you don't get to choose which type of group you go into and the group doesn't get to choose who they get because there's no option for that (even though it's frequently requested). You just get put into the first group with a space and the game assumes that will work out. If it doesn't you have to leave and start over.

[Biziut.3594]

1 hour ago, Doggie.3184 said:

Yes. Heals as well and Tank for raids.. These are the "Holy Trinity" archtypes they created which surprisingly end up larger than the original with 4-5 roles instead of 3, lol. Anet tried to avoid it when they released but ended up expanding it.

Not only tanks for raids. HK, Kiters, Pylons, Dispel, Claim, Protect, some bosses need specified dps like VG, 1-3, 2-4, Mortar, Reflect, BoonSteal, pusher, warg, Tower, off-tank, orb thrower, greens, lamp... Have I forget something? Thats why auto LFG is this game is pretty pointless in my opinion. It would be a waste of dev's time that could be put elswhere. Like upgrading templates to distinguish mounts gliders and outfits for example since we are at QOL's.

[Labjax.2465]

1 hour ago, Danikat.8537 said:

This is the part that makes me think it wouldn't work too.

I wouldn't use an automated queue, but I'm not opposed to one existing in addition to the current LFG tool, I just wouldn't use it. But people always want it to be based on roles and that doesn't work in GW2 because there are no universal roles. It would have to be different for each area of the game, and maybe for each instance, and Anet would have to keep updating it as the meta shifts. It's only in the last few years that alacrity and quickness were in high demand so those filters would be a recent addition (probably after months of players asking for them because the previous ones are no longer relevant) and because that's just 2 boons they're usually combined with doing other things so you'd need a way for someone to queue based on the boon/s they provide and the other stuff they can do.

They're also not relevant everywhere, many areas of the game prioritise other things. For example there's 1 raid where one important role is 'hand kiter'. That doesn't exist anywhere else in the game, but if you want an automated queue to be useful for raids you'd need a button or a filter or whatever to request someone who can do that and they'd need a way to queue for it. PvP uses 'bunker' builds, which aren't used in PvE. WvW has different builds for small roaming groups and big zergs. For the Mad King's Labyrinth you'd need different queues for people who have removed all trinkets and people who keep them (but maybe reduce their damage in other ways) and for people who only want to do green doors vs. people who want to do everything...but is it worth having specialist options for something that only exists for 3 weeks of each year?

I understand why some people think it would be convenient. But the old fashioned system where the game dumps a tank, a healer and X DPS players together and assumes they'll be fine for anything wouldn't work here. It would need a lot more options and they'd have to be constantly updated as the available content and the meta shifts.

IMO it's easier for everyone to have the flexibility of a text box and the freedom to choose groups. That works with any requirements you can imagine, in exchange for the slight inconvenience of having to look at the menu to choose a group instead of having the game do it for you.

It really depends on the content and that's part of why I think something hybridized makes sense here. For example, is anyone really caring about roles in t1 fractal dailies? Heck, even some of the IBS strikes, you can just do 'all welcome' (aka: no role requirements, no dps checks, etc.) and still do just fine. Like there are cases where auto queue would arguably work really well.

On the other hand, you don't want people auto-queuing for raids without at least some suggested compositions, maybe even compositions curated by the playerbase; even if it's 10 newbies to raids with no expectations and patient, they'll probably feel mislead by a tool that doesn't give them some guidance in that way.

I've never tried to get deep into the details cause it feels pointless to since I don't work on the game, but I think it's possible to redesign some aspects of LFG with the goal of it better assisting player grouping goals, as opposed to taking over (the 2nd one being what people seem to perceive the idea as).

[Lottie.5370]

At risk of sounding like Kharmin again, I'm pretty sure this thread has happened like 50 times and already been discussed to death.

 

You're not adding anything new, it's still an awful idea.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Lottie.5370
USE THE FORUM SEARCH FEATURE

[Ashen.2907]

5 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

This is the part that makes me think it wouldn't work too.

I wouldn't use an automated queue, but I'm not opposed to one existing in addition to the current LFG tool, I just wouldn't use it. But people always want it to be based on roles and that doesn't work in GW2 because there are no universal roles. It would have to be different for each area of the game, and maybe for each instance, and Anet would have to keep updating it as the meta shifts. It's only in the last few years that alacrity and quickness were in high demand so those filters would be a recent addition (probably after months of players asking for them because the previous ones are no longer relevant) and because that's just 2 boons they're usually combined with doing other things so you'd need a way for someone to queue based on the boon/s they provide and the other stuff they can do.

They're also not relevant everywhere, many areas of the game prioritise other things. For example there's 1 raid where one important role is 'hand kiter'. That doesn't exist anywhere else in the game, but if you want an automated queue to be useful for raids you'd need a button or a filter or whatever to request someone who can do that and they'd need a way to queue for it. PvP uses 'bunker' builds, which aren't used in PvE. WvW has different builds for small roaming groups and big zergs. For the Mad King's Labyrinth you'd need different queues for people who have removed all trinkets and people who keep them (but maybe reduce their damage in other ways) and for people who only want to do green doors vs. people who want to do everything...but is it worth having specialist options for something that only exists for 3 weeks of each year?

I understand why some people think it would be convenient. But the old fashioned system where the game dumps a tank, a healer and X DPS players together and assumes they'll be fine for anything wouldn't work here. It would need a lot more options and they'd have to be constantly updated as the available content and the meta shifts.

IMO it's easier for everyone to have the flexibility of a text box and the freedom to choose groups. That works with any requirements you can imagine, in exchange for the slight inconvenience of having to look at the menu to choose a group instead of having the game do it for you.

For the vast majority of instanced content (LFG is not normally used to fill specific roles in open world, wvw, or pvp) Alac, Quick, Heal, DPS are the four roles called for.

I dont think that an automated group finder is necessary, or that a lack of one is a flaw, but the instanced community has overwhelmingly settled on roles for their content.

[Fueki.4753]

The game doesn't have hard-coded roles and no way to check if you actually play what you queue'd for.

Also, you can just put in the little effort to just write into the group description what you are looking for for your group and actually have social interaction with people.

We don't need an automated group finder.

[Hashberry.4510]

Ehh, imposters join your groups now, every kitten thread in the instanced section is a massive kitten fest over keeping the smellies out of yours groups. Really a disingenuous complaint. 

[Daniyyel.3428]

I think the biggest flaw in the game is auto casting for reasons we aren't allowed to talk about.

 

[Sarius.9285]

8 hours ago, Amaranthe.3578 said:

PLEASE don't listen to this person

yea the LFG is totally amazing and there's no need to improve it...../s

[LadyKitty.6120]

For the one millionth time: no, no and especially NO.

As many have already pointed out in this thread and other similar threads before this again and again (guess this thread is a weekly occurrence), traditional automatic group finder wouldn't work at all since there's bunch of bosses without a tank, tank is often integrated into healer (or DPS in some cases), boon support can be DPS or healer (you don't want 4 healers or 0 healers) and due to alacrity's and quickness' mutual exclusivity you want 2 boon supports per 5 players and many bosses have some special roles that you can't really make an auto-finder to take into account before start of the wing. Easier special roles are decided on the spot and harder ones are pre-LFG'd for to ensure that it's covered (or someone leaves before final boss that requires that role). And then there's the case of people possibly LFGing for something they have 0 experience on and with auto-finder, that'd mean going in blind and wiping again and again when some people keep wiping the squad by failing vital mechanics by not knowing about them. If you've ever been at Slothasor, you prolly know what that's like. "Bad poison. Very baaad poison." as is one of Kitty's catchphrases.

So yeah. Current LFG has its flaws but due to GW2's designs, it's still a good compromise compared to other possibilities.

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

For the vast majority of instanced content (LFG is not normally used to fill specific roles in open world, wvw, or pvp) Alac, Quick, Heal, DPS are the four roles called for.

I dont think that an automated group finder is necessary, or that a lack of one is a flaw, but the instanced community has overwhelmingly settled on roles for their content.

Untrue. It may seem so on the surface, but only when you forget that all support slots are double role (at least, can be triple if they're tanking for example). If you get a HMech, you have to get a dps quick for the same subsquad. If you get a healbrand however, you have to get an alacdps for the second slot. As such, what you need can change depending on what you have already got. Not to mention at least a half of the encounters requires unique roles (one or two tanks, kiters, pushers, greens at Dhuum, etc) or has some roles that aren't necessary, but people like to have them (blood scourges at boneskinner are very popular, for example). Some of those roles (like cannons at Sabetha, or mushrooms at Sloth) can usually be assigned ad-hoc, but for some (like kiters) you'd really want people with proper builds (and proper experience in that role). Automated LFG just can't really cover all of that.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[Ashen.2907]

1 hour ago, Sarius.9285 said:

yea the LFG is totally amazing and there's no need to improve it...../s

He did not make any claims about the LFG system.

[Gwynnion.7364]

8 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

I understand why some people think it would be convenient. But the old fashioned system where the game dumps a tank, a healer and X DPS players together and assumes they'll be fine for anything wouldn't work here. It would need a lot more options and they'd have to be constantly updated as the available content and the meta shifts.

This.  I wish people would just get over roles as being the end-all, be-all of game design.