Group content required for story completion

[Fenella.2634]

This is exactly why I don't play ffxiv. Group content is great. I like raids, strikes and even dungeons, even pvp. But forced group content is a no-go for me. I want to be able to play the story solo at least once. If achievements require groups, fine, but not being able to progress at all without a group? After eight years? Meh.And on top of that it's buggy.

[Locce.8405]

@"Dante.1763" said:Maybe thats why we are playing this game and not that one.

For me it's definitely a big factor. I wouldn't and I couldn't ever enjoy something like FFXIV.I suffer from anxiety issues and don't deal well with random groups of people, depending on the circumstances. One of the biggest plus points of GW2 is that I can engage with people when and for as long as I want. For world bosses and meta events I can just join a squad on the fly, nobody will take exception to me being there, and when my "group stress account" is full I can leave with nobody taking exception to that either. In open world I genuinely enjoy helping out random people with something they struggle with and then being on my merry way afterwards. That's what I play an MMO for as opposed to a single player game.

Now, with forced group content the situation is noticeably different. You sign up to a limited group that is often monitored by the leader, meaning I have to expect having to justify me being there instead of somebody else who might play a profession they would have rather seen in my place or something like that. That's poison for my well-being, and that's despite me on a rational level knowing that I can more than hold my own in most situations with most of my chars. And depending on how long that content takes to complete I might be stuck between a rock and a hard place as well since without prior knowledge about how long and/or bad it gets it could happen that I have to choose between staying well past the point I am comfortable with or leaving the group one man down which I would feel incredibly bad about.

So, the more strike missions are required for meta achievements, the more story-relevant content requires 10-man squads to experience, the more I feel left out. And I can tell you that it sucks. It sucks hard.

[Ashantara.8731]

@jinxykat.6519 said:Honestly, players shouldn't be so turned off by group play, it IS an mmorpg, after all.

But it is an extremely long instance and it requires dozens of repeats in order to get all the related achievements done. That could be a possible turn-off for many.

Other than that, I believe it's fine - it's definitely something else and therefore a welcome diversion from typical content we know.

[Randulf.7614]

@Locce.8405 said:Now, with forced group content the situation is noticeably different. You sign up to a limited group that is often monitored by the leader, meaning I have to expect having to justify me being there instead of somebody else who might play a profession they would have rather seen in my place or something like that.

For clarity, because I am reading a lot of misconceptions going around about this content, the main Vision mission does not work like traditional instanced content. It works exactly like open world escort events. There is no leaders, builds, requirements, dps monitoring or anything like that. It's exactly the same as normal escort style open world events, but the nature of being in a map in the past and you are reskinned as charr means it has arbitrary instance walls around it.

It is as friendly, accessible, seamless and open to all that instanced content could possibly get. It is very GW2 in that regard

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

I want to clarify some things for anyone who hasn't done it:

• Yes, it is group content, but the group is optional. You can solo it, if you're experienced.
• Two people have little to no problems, if you can bring a friend.
• The public version plays just like an open-world event chain; there's no difference. Its not like a raid or even other Strike Missions.

The worst part is the finale, defending the tank. But its just "Heart of Thorns story difficulty", rather than what we became used to lately. I found that mostly I'd just become rusty at handling content like this in the game, pretty much.

[Handsel.2891]

It's not any more of a group content than what you might do on a Living World map to progress the story or a map-wide meta event. Choose the public option and you don't even have to talk to another player.

[Locce.8405]

@Randulf.7614 and others leaving helpful comments:Thanks for the additional info. That does sound a lot better than strike missions and like something I can at least try out and see if I can manage or even enjoy it. If everything else fails it sounds like I might be able to just brute force it solo or with a friend. :)

[Dante.1508]

Guildwars has always been about solo friendly content changing it now is just annoying.

@"Mea.5491" said:"Making group content required for the story is a step backwards."

Then you would cry in FFXIV, story is locked behind DOZENS of non-soloable dungeons and trials, lol. GW2 has a ridiculously LOW amount of FORCED group content for a massively multiplayer game. :tongue:

Thats why i quit that game after a month.. Being Aussie and a dps i had no chance in progressing the story due to duty finder and ping times in those crazy dungeons..

[killermanjaro.5670]

I have to admit I was annoyed when it came up with the group message for a story instance, but thankfully it was actually fine and nothing to worry about in the end. What worried me was that 1-2 players would run ahead skipping battles/story bits and I'd not get to enjoy it as I'd have to rush to keep up, or that some might treat it like a raid and start hurling abuse in chat if I didn't have a set build & perfect dps. But thankfully the way it was desgiend meant none of that was an issue, you go at the pace of the npcs, and there's not really anything tough enough for people to worry about builds/optimal dps. In the end my group just got on with it like any open world meta or event and it was just as enjoyable.

So for anyone who hasn't played it yet and is put off by hearing its group content, don't worry if you had the concerns I did where it might end up like a raid, or fractal speed run, it won't, it'll just be like any other open world meta/event chain. With that being said I do agree with those saying that story should be doable solo.

[thepenmonster.3621]

Four digit lag spikes keeps me from playing content like this. It does seems good for the people who want to do the grouping. Those folks need more content anyway. I'll just handle it like I always do: See if it's worth the effort and if not I'll skip it. The whole thing seems optional at the moment anyway.

@"Hannelore.8153" said:But its just "Heart of Thorns story difficulty"

Is that defending-the-pact-survivors-from-waves-of-mordrem "difficult" or escaping-fucking-one-shot-Faolain-through-that-fucking-one-shot-minefield-using-clunky-new-mechanics "difficult" because I'd rather lose a thumb than do the second one again.

[Mewcifer.5198]

@killermanjaro.5670 said:I have to admit I was annoyed when it came up with the group message for a story instance, but thankfully it was actually fine and nothing to worry about in the end. What worried me was that 1-2 players would run ahead skipping battles/story bits and I'd not get to enjoy it as I'd have to rush to keep up, or that some might treat it like a raid and start hurling abuse in chat if I didn't have a set build & perfect dps. But thankfully the way it was desgiend meant none of that was an issue, you go at the pace of the npcs, and there's not really anything tough enough for people to worry about builds/optimal dps. In the end my group just got on with it like any open world meta or event and it was just as enjoyable.

So for anyone who hasn't played it yet and is put off by hearing its group content, don't worry if you had the concerns I did where it might end up like a raid, or fractal speed run, it won't, it'll just be like any other open world meta/event chain. With that being said I do agree with those saying that story should be doable solo.

That was also a worry, as well as running into trolls who would fuck around instead of actually trying to get things done.The content itself is pretty fun though. I managed to get enough guildies to do it earlier. I'm hoping to get some of my more experienced friends on at some point to do the CMs.

[Cyndercat.7615]

This is similar to story mode dungeons. It gives some exposition and backstory to a few of the chatacters but is not required to complete the story. Its nothing new.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

@"Mea.5491" said:

Maybe that's why FFXIV is successful and GW2 is having issues.

Nah, FF is a very popular IP with many millions of fans. Guild Wars is not.

I love GW2 but too often it feels like a single-player game for an MMO.

A major design aim of Guild Wars 2 was to be a game that appealed to players who hated MMO's as well as those who loved them. The end result of that is that ANet has two groups who want fundamentally different things from the game. Part of that divide is those who want a more WoW-like experience versus people who didn't like WoW-style endgame, Whether GW2 offers enough content that is suited for those who want group play or for those who don't is going to depend on which side of the divide you sit on.

Solo players always cry when we get multiplayer content in a multiplayer game. It's sad.

And some of the group-PvE crowd complain every time a release comes that doesn't offer group content. Before you hang your hat on the idea that group content is a defining factor of whether a game is multiplayer or not, you might consider that the most successful MMO once published stats saying that 5% of its population raided consistently.

---

The issue here is packaging. ANet presented this release in the story journal. The content is designed to offer a glimpse into the LWS1 story that a lot of players may have missed. That means people are going to think of it as story. Story has always been something people could do at their own pace and alone if that's what they wanted to do.

If ANet wanted to present another group content initiative, I think that's great. Both groups need things to do to keep up their interest in the game. I think that it was inevitable that when they packed the release as "story" (maybe because they wanted to tie it to PoF ownership and that mechanism already existed for story episodes) there were going to be expectations of solo play.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

My only gripe is that the requirement to complete it to unlock LS1 missions should be removed. That said, a player who has unlocked the missions already can bring newbies in without any spoilers of later content (especially that spoiler), I think?

[Dark Red Killian.3946]

Yes it’s not the normal that we’re used to, and I thought it was kind of odd they did it this way, but in reality it didn’t matter to me. I just joined the public and dove right in. I ended up doing my own thing and didn’t really count on anyone else. In my opinion it is a mix of open world and story instance. You don’t have to find a group to do it, but it is more fun if more people join in. I wouldn’t really count on this as a new norm, but I think this was a chance to do something different and it works well in the case I believe. Don’t count on this happening in any future actual episodes.

[Khisanth.2948]

It definitely does not require 5-10. It was pretty easy with 3 despite being scaled for 4.

Previous posters have also noted doing it with 2 and solo.

How many of the people complaining have actually tried it solo?

[Etria.3642]

@Lottie.5370 said:The instance scales depending on the number of people inside it. I have done it with a group of 10 and a group of 2, and it was manageable (not at all difficult) both times.

Even for casual players it is doable solo, there are several waypoints inside if you die.

This.

[coso.9173]

How is this any different from previous story episodes where you're required to complete map events (who are done by groups most of the time) to progress in the story? ? Because it's a longer map event requirement?

[Esterie.7409]

At first I was unhappy hearing that Ryland's mission was being stuck behind group content. Like others have mentioned, I don't mind group content in open world, but small-group instanced content isn't my jam. After reading posts here about how it's able to be soloed I decided to give it a try. It actually wasn't that bad. A few champs, but with a minionmaster build it was easy, albeit a bit tedious. The entire mission took me a little under an hour solo, but I didn't die, so it wasn't too bad. I failed a few of the bonus events because my attention was focused elsewhere, though. The final fight was a bit sketchy at times, I can absolutely see where more people would make it a breeze, but somehow I managed. I've only ever done tier 1 fractals and haven't set a foot in raids, for reference. I don't think I will continue to solo it, because whew the time, but now that I know the gist of it I'll feel more comfortable playing through it with others.

If anyone reading this wants to try it, I highly recommend a minionmaster necro. This is the build I used [&DQg1KQIVEz6bAKIAcAF0AXYAcwHkAHUBlQCVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA=], with a mix of Valkyrie and Marauder armor for extra vitality.

Link to victory image, with spoilers.

Now to finally play the Season 1 stuff..... Hmm, never mind. Apparently you need to do Darkrime Delves as well before you can replay (or in the case of those of us who started playing GW2 after Season 1, actually play) Season 1. :/ Okay now I'm ready for Season 1 stuff. The second mission was actually easier and shorter than the first, though the final fight was a bit more tricky. Still solo-able on a minionmaster.

My only qualm now is that, as far as I can tell, you cannot go straight to the Darkrime Delves instance to finish achievements, etc. You must play through the first mission (which IMO was more tedious than the second). If I'm wrong about this, feel free to correct me. I'd love to go back and explore the Delves. Wow I'm just on a roll tonight. You just need to restart the Steel & Fire story in your story journal, there will be a purple marker near the scrying pool to take you directly to Darkrime Delves. Whoop!

[robertthebard.8150]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@"Mea.5491" said:

"Making group content required for the story is a step backwards."

Then you would cry in FFXIV, story is locked behind DOZENS of non-soloable dungeons and trials, lol. GW2 has a ridiculously LOW amount of FORCED group content for a massively

multiplayer

game. :tongue:

Maybe thats why we are playing this game and not that one.

I repeat. MMO =/= 10 man instanced dungeons. It means a bunch of players online together at the same time.

Maybe thats why ff14 had like 18mil registered acounts and gw2 is still stuck at 11mil?

Yeah, 11 million registered accounts is so fail... I can't believe they can even keep the lights on they're doing so poorly. /sarcasm

[zealex.9410]

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:

@"Mea.5491" said:

Maybe that's why FFXIV is successful and GW2 is having issues.

Nah, FF is a very popular IP with many millions of fans. Guild Wars is not.

I love GW2 but too often it feels like a single-player game for an MMO.

A major design aim of Guild Wars 2 was to be a game that appealed to players who hated MMO's as well as those who loved them. The end result of that is that ANet has two groups who want fundamentally different things from the game. Part of that divide is those who want a more WoW-like experience versus people who didn't like WoW-style endgame, Whether GW2 offers enough content that is suited for those who want group play or for those who don't is going to depend on which side of the divide you sit on.

Solo players always cry when we get multiplayer content in a multiplayer game. It's sad.

And some of the group-PvE crowd complain every time a release comes that doesn't offer group content. Before you hang your hat on the idea that group content is a defining factor of whether a game is multiplayer or not, you might consider that the most successful MMO once published stats saying that 5% of its population raided consistently.

---

The issue here is packaging. ANet presented this release in the story journal. The content is designed to offer a glimpse into the LWS1 story that a lot of players may have missed. That means people are going to think of it as story. Story has always been something people could do at their own pace and alone if that's what they wanted to do.

If ANet wanted to present another group content initiative, I think that's great. Both groups need things to do to keep up their interest in the game. It think that it as inevitable that when they packed the release as "story" (maybe because they wanted to tie it to PoF ownership and that mechanism already existed for story episodes) there were going to be expectations of solo play.

Ff has traditionally existed in the sp turnbased genre which run opposite to what ff14 is, if anything ff14 could be seen as a slap to the face for ff fans since it doesnt directly cater to them except for maybe the lore and story.

[zealex.9410]

@Randulf.7614 said:

@Wubbbi.8172 said:I LOVE VISIONS OF THE PAST! <3

Me too. I hope more are on the way - this would make a nice piece of semi-regular content every 2-3 episodes

@Dante.1763 said:but when im locked into an instance with 10 people and forced to use a certain build i get irritated.

Just for clarity in case you (or anyone else reading) isn't aware yet - you use your own build entirely and you don't anything meta or specific. It is open world level of play in terms of you choose to fight with. Even the follow on solo instance allows you the quick option between your build or Rylands skillset and I have to say that was great thinking by Anet.

Is it like sohothin from poe where you could acess sohothin with the sak?

[kharmin.7683]

So what happens a year from now when most players aren't playing on this map any longer and new players are struggling to find a group for this content in order to progress their story? Will we have the same complaints as Deadhouse, Skyscale or other things like these?

[kharmin.7683]

@Wubbbi.8172 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@jinxykat.6519 said:I thought it was extremely fun (went with a public group) Honestly, players shouldn't be so turned off by group play, it IS an mmorpg, after all.

But that's not the point. The point is forcing a play style that hasn't been required before.

No you are wrong and I disagree with you! Stop making these claims for all player and for everyone! I enjoyed playing with others, yes with strangers! It was a lot of fun and I thank ANet for this experience! I would love to see more like this. Please don't listen to the complainer who think that crying the loudest makes them right.I disagree with the whole complaint in this topic!I LOVE VISIONS OF THE PAST! <3

Whoa, chill out! Where did I make a claim for all players? Please don't read more into my comment than is there. I was merely attempting to clarify another's point as there appeared to be some confusion.

Besides, you can say that my opinion is wrong and that's fine. Don't emphatically state that I am wrong, especially if my opinion differs from yours. A difference of opinion is how discourse happens. I'm glad that you find this new content so rewarding. Please respect other players who don't.

Egad.

[NeyteriKiyeri.4207]

I liked the groupmission. Did 2 x. Only the boss took long to take down. Maybe the tank must be used more by other players to get the boss down faster.