GG hotfix team

[gavyne.6847]

Nerfs were needed, we knew the cd to Wells were going back up, but reducing shades to 2 targets per? Even for big shades? That effectively erases scourges from any organized squads. Scourges needed to be nerfed, not removed.

Pre-patch scourges had a spot, they gave barriers, did corrupts, and had decent damage but not top of the meter (those belong to weavers, bomb kit scrappers, burnguards, etc). Most organized squads ran at a max of 1 scourge per party, sometimes even less. They were "meta" but not "overperforming". The patch made them overperfoming, they needed to be tuned down, but 2 shades effectively removes them from being wanted at all in organized squads. Now they're trash tier.

cmc, why do you guys tune things without playing these classes in WvW in the first place?

[RisenHowl.2419]

@aaron.7850 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@aaron.7850 said:We all should have guessed the God-Tier damage class in wvw would complain at the sight of the tiniest nerf.

Give them time to adjust to the "balanced" realm of wvw, its a new place for them.

again, scourge needed nerfs. they didn't need 60% nerfs for damage and support across the board lol

60% damage nerf and yet they will still do more damage than mesmers, thieves, rangers... etc.This is balancing, learn to live with it.

more than mesmers sure, definitely less than thieves and rangers.

@mixxed.5862 said:Excellent changes. Exactly what was needed to bring Scourge back in line. You'll obviously run small shades which is more fun and more healthy for the game mode overall.

For everyone complaining, consider this: With the very low cooldown on Manifest Sand Shade you can always put 3 shades out for your bombs. That puts it at 6 targets (8 if in melee). It's the first time the number of targets on shade actually feels fair.

Thank you. This was a proper hotfix, good job.

This isn't in line, it's nuking the class from orbit. scourge was in line before the patch on the 7th

Show me 1 video of a scourge landing a 3 shade bomb on a moving zerg? I'm fairly good on scourge and I can only land 2 with any kind of reliability man lol

[Dawdler.8521]

@gavyne.6847 said:That effectively erases scourges from any organized squads.Yet we're probably still gonna see ~15-20 scourges per 50 man.

And in the highly unlikely scenario that doesnt happen, it will be interesting to see what actually replaces it.

Daredevil staff zergs so we can move over to jumping bean meta?

[LucianDK.8615]

Scourges will still be stacked, the nerf is fine. It made up for the scourges getting to cast around themselves again.

[RisenHowl.2419]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@gavyne.6847 said:That effectively erases scourges from any organized squads.Yet we're probably

still

gonna see ~15-20 scourges per 50 man.

And in the highly unlikely scenario that doesnt happen, it will be interesting to see what actually replaces it.

Daredevil staff zergs so we can move over to jumping bean meta?

if anything they'll be core or reaper, both get better mileage than scourge after the nerf

[ASP.8093]

Shade Skills: Reduced the target cap of shades from 3 to 2 in WvW only. Reduced the target cap of greater shades from 5 to 2 in WvW only.

I know everyone was already taking that boon-conversion trait, but… What is the point of Greater Shade, even?

[Tidbit.9352]

I guess that's one way to delete scourge. They went from top tier, to complete god mode, to deleted in 48 hours.

[DaFishBob.6518]

@ASP.8093 said:

Shade Skills: Reduced the target cap of shades from 3 to 2 in WvW only. Reduced the target cap of greater shades from 5 to 2 in WvW only.

I know everyone was already taking that boon-conversion trait, but… What is the point of Greater Shade, even?

It's EM nerf all over again!

[Anchoku.8142]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@aaron.7850 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@aaron.7850 said:We all should have guessed the God-Tier damage class in wvw would complain at the sight of the tiniest nerf.

Give them time to adjust to the "balanced" realm of wvw, its a new place for them.

again, scourge needed nerfs. they didn't need 60% nerfs for damage and support across the board lol

60% damage nerf and yet they will still do more damage than mesmers, thieves, rangers... etc.This is balancing, learn to live with it.

more than mesmers sure, definitely less than thieves and rangers.

@mixxed.5862 said:Excellent changes. Exactly what was needed to bring Scourge back in line. You'll obviously run small shades which is more fun and more healthy for the game mode overall.

For everyone complaining, consider this: With the very low cooldown on Manifest Sand Shade you can

always

put 3 shades out for your bombs. That puts it at 6 targets (8 if in melee). It's the first time the number of targets on shade actually feels fair.

Thank you. This was a proper hotfix, good job.

This isn't in line, it's nuking the class from orbit. scourge was in line before the patch on the 7th

Show me 1 video of a scourge landing a 3 shade bomb on a moving zerg? I'm fairly good on scourge and I can only land 2 with any kind of reliability man lol

I agree, Arenanet needed to do something serious about shades but they made a grandmaster elite have a negative value. Taking that trait is now a penalty.

Worse is the deletion of the grandmaster trait for wells in all game modes replacing it with a 2 second barrier for over-healing that cannot be shared with allies. I am confounded by Arenanet's logic thinking Scourge needed more barrier for itself, let alone the logic behind core and Reaper needing barrier on over-heals when those specializations are incentivized to stay in shroud as much as possible. Without Blood Bank being a group support option it feels like a dead GM slot.

Tweaking numbers like the quantity of targets and cool down times is one thing but turning grandmaster traits into slots to avoid at all cost is another. After admitting the previous change to prevent the Scourge from being a shade while another shade was out was stupid, this stuff comes in the same update... Good grief.

[Linnar.6032]

First making a post complaining about how manifest sand shade and desert shroud hit for 1k and 2k per pulse respectively when in reality the damage is closer to 200-300 and 700-800 and then making a post about how scourge got overnerfed, 10/10

[ArchonWing.9480]

Literally how balance works in this game. Just remove stuff instead of tuning them.

[mixxed.5862]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@aaron.7850 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@aaron.7850 said:We all should have guessed the God-Tier damage class in wvw would complain at the sight of the tiniest nerf.

Give them time to adjust to the "balanced" realm of wvw, its a new place for them.

again, scourge needed nerfs. they didn't need 60% nerfs for damage and support across the board lol

60% damage nerf and yet they will still do more damage than mesmers, thieves, rangers... etc.This is balancing, learn to live with it.

more than mesmers sure, definitely less than thieves and rangers.

@mixxed.5862 said:Excellent changes. Exactly what was needed to bring Scourge back in line. You'll obviously run small shades which is more fun and more healthy for the game mode overall.

For everyone complaining, consider this: With the very low cooldown on Manifest Sand Shade you can

always

put 3 shades out for your bombs. That puts it at 6 targets (8 if in melee). It's the first time the number of targets on shade actually feels fair.

Thank you. This was a proper hotfix, good job.

This isn't in line, it's nuking the class from orbit. scourge was in line before the patch on the 7th

Show me 1 video of a scourge landing a 3 shade bomb on a moving zerg? I'm fairly good on scourge and I can only land 2 with any kind of reliability man lol

Yeah, you won't always get 6 unless you're in melee range. But if you don't hit 4 targets with your big bomb you misplayed.Target cap is 5 for every other profession. So why was Scourge at 10+ for over 2 years dominating the meta for most of it? Don't worry Scourge will still be fine. No need to be overly dramatic.

[Vegeta.2563]

So for those that don't know.. The target cap was 5 before the first patch hit. It was reduced to 3 targets.. and now even nerfed to 2 per shade.. And why greater shades have a target cap of 2 (meaning max u hit is 4 with shade on yourself)? There's no point in running scourge at all anymore and just replace them with heralds, and let spellbreakers do the boon removal.

[Wolfhound.4381]

RIP scourge. No point in playing it anymore. We're worse off now than before the initial update. Time to learn a new class or quit playing wvw.

[Faccina.5091]

theres the elementalist thing that spam aoe with permabuffs port stun etc...edit:i made a clever post for a real balance but i got a warning and the post deleted lulz

[DemonSeed.3528]

Maybe it caused immense server load. Jk. I'd be interested to see if changes like this actually lessen server load somewhat.

[Vrath.1754]

It wouldn't have matter what they did half the people would qq half would be cheer. Just so happens some people like to be in the qq half most of the time.

[RlyOsim.2497]

'I don't know what I'm doing'

• balance team 2020

[MELORD.5013]

this clearly shows that they wanna rework scourge overall maybe into more of a support class . they put it on sleep mode untill they figure out what to do with it

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Could that be the first time in GW2 History that Necro is not OP in WvW?

An ohhh man, the necro community that now needs to get good or play an class that need actuall skill.

"Gets popcorn"

[DemonSeed.3528]

@"DanAlcedo.3281" said:Could that be the first time in GW2 History that Necro is not OP in WvW?

An ohhh man, the necro community that now needs to get good or play an class that need actuall skill.

"Gets popcorn"I think they will still do well, but there will indeed be more thinking involved in the process, or at least work. We've seen similar things happen on other classes, and they have survived and are still used.Your popcorn is going to get corrupted now though, it will turn into a cornpop.

[Ashantara.8731]

The hotfix was an unpleasant surprise. Decrease shade targets, increase cooldowns for wells again - either one or the other, but both? Do the people responsible for this even play coordinated WvW? Why even make any changes in the first place when their are going to get nerfed again, and right away no less.

[mindcircus.1506]

They said this was coming before Tuesday's patch.

They said this nerf was coming in a hotfix on Friday's Guild Chat, did they not?CMC was addressing the feedback that the upcomming Patch Notes version of Scourge being ludicrous. He explained this change was going in a hotfix afterwards and that these changes were already ready but that he didnt get the patch notes updated in time for Localization.

Why is everyone acting surprised and outraged today?

In usual fashion they will overnerf something and then slowly tune it upwards.

[KlausKNT.9302]

Let just w8 and see what they do next about balance and updates :) Bu i think it will not be next "hotfix" in 1 day -more realistic its a update in few months from now :)

[Arheundel.6451]

@Lightning Xv.8705 said:

@aaron.7850 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@aaron.7850 said:We all should have guessed the God-Tier damage class in wvw would complain at the sight of the tiniest nerf.

Give them time to adjust to the "balanced" realm of wvw, its a new place for them.

again, scourge needed nerfs. they didn't need 60% nerfs for damage and support across the board lol

60% damage nerf and yet they will still do more damage than mesmers, thieves, rangers... etc.This is balancing, learn to live with it.

Roamers =/= zerg specs

also at this point the zerg immob soulbeast build will probably out damage scourge now fairly easily as it was pretty close before hand. Rev and Ele were above scourge to begin with.

There is like 1 staff ele every 20 or so necros in a zerg........