Do you want EoD maps to be more like HOT or POF maps?

[Luthan.5236]

Would be nice to have some fun meta achievements that require group effort. But the hero points ... it is okay if they can be soloed.

[Dami.5046]

I want EOD to be different. Such a shame they are so against races fighting so there won't be a kurzick vs luxon type war, rather then just NPCs like Dizzlewood.  I would love boss fights where groups of enemy players fight it and each other. I think EoD had the making of been quite epic, but meh really. 

 

[Yggranya.5201]

11 hours ago, Mik.3401 said:

Definetely like PoF. They may be boring in comparison but at least they are not as frustrating as the HoT ones. Playing HoT is straight up painful

HoT maps frustrating compared to PoF maps? You must be joking.

 

11 hours ago, Aodlop.1907 said:

As in, more solo friendly or more challenging and group oriented?

Neither of them are solo friendly and there really isn't challenge in zerging every event into oblivion.

[Aodlop.1907]

41 minutes ago, Yggranya.5201 said:

Neither of them are solo friendly and there really isn't challenge in zerging every event into oblivion.

50 player squads aren't that fun, I'll give you that. I wish they found some way to forcefully split groups a bit into 5-10 players encounters against champions, with some portal, barrier or whatever. Less visual clunter, more personal involvement in the encounter rather than "I tag the big monster once and it dies immediately after".

[Mik.3401]

1 hour ago, Yggranya.5201 said:

HoT maps frustrating compared to PoF maps? You must be joking.

 

Neither of them are solo friendly and there really isn't challenge in zerging every event into oblivion.

 
did I say jk? That’s Just how i feel about these maps. HoT is a really bad attempt at vertical environment with few clear pathways up and down often. Of course can just hop on sky scale but still PoF maps are just like any other maps which is just ok

Edited May 28, 2021 by Mik.3401

[Vayne.8563]

In general I prefer HoT to PoF.  I like the HoT map complexity. I don't like the aggro range of creatures in PoF.

 

If I had to have a perfect system it would be complex maps, with a difficulty somewhere between HoT and PoF but with the aggro turned down.  There should be some resting safe places you can go just to look around.

[Zola.6197]

One thing I feel acutely is that both expansions make it hard to just explore and *relax* while doing so. There are so many enemy mobs everywhere, often patrolling, and I have to rush to get anywhere or I’ll get bogged down in enemy mobs. It feels counterintuitive to my desire to explore at my own pace, take in the details of map design, and really appreciate the beauty of the new environments.

 

Ideally I’d like maps to combine elements of both, but definitely want some maps that don’t punish you for taking your time and smelling the roses either. Let me stare at that extravagant waterfall for a while, or explore some intriguing ruins without a giant ghost wurm knocking me down every few seconds. There’s a really cool cave system in Elon Riverlands, but it’s teeming with hydra. A few more areas rich in natural beauty and/or lore with less of an enemy threat would be really nice. Not to say the maps shouldn’t be challenging or lack a sense of danger, but more small safe zones sprinkled throughout would be lovely imo.

 

 

[Witch of Doom.5739]

11 hours ago, Touchme.1097 said:

The best of both, as long as we don't get another maze map like Tangle Depths or Draconis Mons. I hate maze maps with too much verticality.

All this.  Hopefully they will be the best of both worlds/expacs.  I loathe Tangled Depths with a passion and like to see where I'm going.

[Omega.6801]

Both or somewhere in between. 😉

HoT has great replay value, to this day the metas usually have more than one map full and the rewards, like amalgamated lodestones or infusions, are still relevant. The maps, enemies and dificulty all played well into the "behind enemy lines" aspect of the story. But the Story itself was rushed and unfinished, along with the Revenants class that still feels like the odd one out, but that's a different thing.

PoF had beautiful yet often empty maps. Not just in terms of "vast stretches of desert nothingness sprinkled with sandsharks" but also when it comes to the meta events. People do them for achivements or collections, and occasionally you'll find a bounty or HP train advertised. However, playing through the PoF Story on the maps felt immersive and the maps are just georgeous to look at compared to the confusing mess of earth tones and greens in HoT.

 

The middle path would be pretty maps, with engaging metas that draw players in, even years after release, and that are also tightly connected to the story of the expansion. Nice rewards would be apreciated as well as a somewhat challenging open world experience.

In the end it's not just about the maps in GW2, it's also about the "gimmick". HoT maps were very vertical and convoluted, because the gimmicks were (ley-)gliding, jump-pads and nuhoch tunnel that port you around the map. PoF maps were vast stretches of land to explore, perfect for the expansion's obvious gimmick, mounts. Now, whatever the gimmick will be, I think it will also play into how the maps will be designed.
If we get a gimmick that, for example, cares about swimming, diving and UW-combat. You can expect to have bigger underwater sections to the maps. If the new gimmick is player housing, I'd expect an entire map or portions of each map to be dedicated to that gimmick.

Edited May 29, 2021 by lokh.2695

[Rauderi.8706]

Solo friendly: I shouldn't have to be in a group for Hero Points or map completion. 

 

But! Meta-events and world bosses *should* be a thing to keep the zones interesting. Rather they not be bound to timers, but we all know folks would just taxi...

[TheGrimm.5624]

Some of both. If I could have only one or the other. HoT. HoT remains replayable but PoF, I didn't even bother doing map completion.

[TheGrimm.5624]

3 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

In general I prefer HoT to PoF.  I like the HoT map complexity. I don't like the aggro range of creatures in PoF.

 

If I had to have a perfect system it would be complex maps, with a difficulty somewhere between HoT and PoF but with the aggro turned down.  There should be some resting safe places you can go just to look around.

 

I agree with the way you phrased it. Long story short we need maps that have reasons to seek out every corner. Maps that hold both points to explore for both groups and for solo exploration. We need events that lead to meta events and quiet points that were worth it to just find for easter eggs or some cool achievements. HoT threw a lot of people off because it required the player to come back later to finish. A lot of people were used to do the entire map and move on, where as now we needed to grow more before coming back. That was a mind shift for a lot of people and that was the issue with them. After people got that they couldn't just finish them in their head they could enjoy the complexity of the maps and after exploring more found faster and faster ways to get around them.  That changed some peoples' mind, but it took time since people were used to less complex maps from core, which is what the forums were asking for at the time. More challenge and more complexity and more reason to work together. Prior to PoF we had more forum goers asking for the opposite. Less group and more open and less complex. Some of that was because the HoT people were still chewing on HoT that they asked for. So now that we have seen both, we need some for all. Hence the HoT and PoF blends. A good expansion will do that and throw in some twists we haven't seen. Build one what we have, allow both old and new ways to get about, give us multiple answers to the same question on how to get somewhere. Goals to do, things worth acquiring and challenges that don't just have one way to do it. But just large open maps of nothing won't cut it, nor will content we can just burn thru, nor pure grinds either. It's a challenge, gamers are fickle critters at best. Happy to have an expansion over just living world though and am excited. Bring it on.  Create 9-10 more elites and I am in for 9-10 new character slots and all that comes with that. Roll the dice and lets get paid.  Good hunting!

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

I’ll vote for the meta of Hot combined with the difficulty level for solo players of PoF. 
 

PoF is just plain boring with forgettable events that are hard to find, and unless there is an daily events on the map, mostly you’ll be doing them alone. At least with HoT there always seem to be other people playing and doing events to progress the meta. 

[Fueki.4753]

I wouldn't mind if they go back and design them more like Core maps.

There shouldn't be too much verticality, but plenty of waypoints.

 

EoD most likely won't feature mounts and shouldn't be designed with mounts or gliding in mind,

so they need to stop being too stingy with waypoints.

[radda.8920]

20 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I wouldn't mind if they go back and design them more like Core maps.

There shouldn't be too much verticality, but plenty of waypoints.

 

EoD most likely won't feature mounts and shouldn't be designed with mounts or gliding in mind,

so they need to stop being too stingy with waypoints.

For those who do not know cantha with gw1, kaineng and the kurzick forest have enormous potential with verticality. Slums, palaces, underground sewers for kaineng and huge cathedral for the forest. It would  be a shame to make maps that are too flat ...

Then we can make more horizontal maps for the jade sea and shing jea.

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by radda.8920

[Fueki.4753]

33 minutes ago, radda.8920 said:

For those who do not know cantha with gw1, kaineng and the kurzick forest have enormous potential with verticality. Slums, palaces, underground sewers for kaineng and huge cathedral for the forest. It would  be a shame to make maps that are too flat ...

Then we can make more horizontal maps for the jade sea and shing jea.

 

Just because there is potential, doesn't mean Arenanet should tap into it.

They already did that with HoT and it's one of the most hated facets of HoT.

Some of it, especially in Tangled Depths and Draconis Mons, still is a festering pain in the bacon to traverse, even with mounts. The resulting backlash is not something they should aim to repeat.

 

Maps like in PoF, Season 4 and even Lornar's Pass are more than sufficiently vertical.

Aiming for even more verticality than that most likely will result in backlash.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[radda.8920]

7 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

 

Just because there is potential, doesn't mean Arenanet should tap into it.

They already did that with HoT and it's one of the most hated facets of HoT.

Some of it, especially in Tangled Depths and Draconis Mons, still is a festering pain in the bacon to traverse, even with mounts. The resulting backlash is not something they should aim to repeat.

 

Maps like in PoF, Season 4 and even Lornar's Pass are more than sufficiently vertical.

Aiming for even more verticality than that most likely will result in backlash.

 

Okay I guess it depends on taste.

But I had the best experience ever on a mmo with the exploration during HOT. These maps were art for me, they did an exceptional job and the verticality was the big asset. I don't ask that for all cantha maps but at least 1 or 2 would be nice (especially for kaineng)

Edited May 28, 2021 by radda.8920

[zityz.6089]

Both.

 

Places like the Echovald Forrest and Keineng city would benefit with HoT style maps and places like Shing Jea and Jade Sea would benfit from PoF style maps.

[serow.6524]

I want POF. 

HOT was not fun. 

[Zizou.2358]

On 5/28/2021 at 1:16 AM, Mik.3401 said:

Definetely like PoF. They may be boring in comparison but at least they are not as frustrating as the HoT ones. Playing HoT is straight up painful

Lmao so you will have more empty maps. 

HoT maps are challenging BUT also rewarding, that's why they are so populated in comparison to dead PoF ones. 

[Fueki.4753]

1 hour ago, Rukasu.3097 said:

Lmao so you will have more empty maps. 

HoT maps are challenging BUT also rewarding, that's why they are so populated in comparison to dead PoF ones. 

They could simply make PoF-like maps that have fun and rewarding events and the waypoint density of core maps.

 

A map being rewarding does not require it to be a pain in the bacon to traverse.

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[fenriswolfman.5486]

TD was one of my favorite maps early on but as time went on it did get annoying. Still prefer the HoT maps over all though. But the point made earlier about mob density is very true. Anet likes to swamp you in trash mobs and call it difficulty. Orr was like this early on as well.

[Goettel.4389]

HoT, no contest.

[Malitias.8453]

On 5/28/2021 at 9:23 AM, radda.8920 said:

Hot before the nerf. Group content, difficulty, metas that require coordination and reflexion, bosses with interesting mechanics and not hp sponges. But I'm not dreaming, the spam 1 professionals  would cry after a day and quit the game. So that won't happen, we're going to have drizzlewood coast level maps everywhere. 

I found the concept of the map(drizzlewood coast) to be very interesting. The problem the map has IMO is, like you mentioned, the enemies. They don't have mechanics you engage with nor require any teamplay/coordination, which makes them boring to me and makes those HP bars probably appear longer than they actually are.
Most of them are just badly designed, no matter how you look at it. A lot of attacks that have any kind of impact are just an annoyance, but don't deal enough damage to actually be a threat. You can facetank almost everything the map throws at you.
Having said that, I do believe the concept of the map itself has a lot of potential and is worth giving another shot.

Edited May 29, 2021 by Malitias.8453

[Cuks.8241]

Hot if I have to choose. Pinnacle of map design in GW2 if not in mmorpg in general. 

It's not that I dislike Pof maps, it's just that one or two flat maps is enough. If you have a series of those it gets boring.